What animals are ours to kill, and eat, and skin... etc

PLEASE : this thread is about what of most animal - lovers call "animal cruelty"
Put aside Religious restrictions... we are know that muslim and jewish didn't eat pork, and hindus didn't eat cows, and buddhist didn't eat animals at all... but "all you can eat" religious views (that didn't have any restricted foods in accordance to God), can be given

Now I give my base opinion:

1) All animals are ours to eat, ours to wear, and ours to skinned and killed and etc, they are afterall only animals that didn't share any rights on their own, they can't argue afterall... human does argue for them...
2) Although all animals are ours to eat, we should keep the balance of the nature, eq no overhunting or killing endangered species... and likewise...
3) We should respect The owner's (read : legal owner's) rights : meaning we didn't capture, kill and eat animals that belongs to someone else without their own permission... Without permission, it was thievery after all...
4) Why did u can feel animals (read: dogs, cats, monkeys, birds) as family members? If you do that, then why you put all those animals in a level that they shouldn't be... it's ok to keep cats and dogs as pest controller in the house, and even you can grow attached to them as personally as possible... it's ok to pretend that cat, or that dog you own is deserve some kind of honor... but there was no way to generalize the term about all cats and dogs receive such honour...
5) Just because you feel that you fear to lost that "companion animal" did you have... all people will be banned from doing such "cruelty" (eq: kill, eat, skin...) to all those kind of species... killing another people's property is a crime... but killing stray cats, and then dispose them properly (read: properly bury them, or eat them, or some kind that really diffrent than throwing dead carcass in front of the people's home), shouldn't be punished as "animal-murder"... killing animals is not a homicide don't you...
6) Even when some "sickos" torture animals for fun, they are maybe just try to quench their anger, but then if they just kill them, and not creating mess with their carcass (properly dumped them on the right place, and take something valuable) then they are not guilty. Why did u took killing dogs is offensive, but killing a wild deer is justifiable behaviour?
7) God did create all animals for ours to eat... all religions say that humans are has higher state than those animals... put aside some religious restriction... of food... we can just skin them and they are still ok to perform...

As a starter... what about killing rabbits, and create jackets from them, and eat their meat...?

Thanks... opinion needed here...

You appear to have misunderstood what's considered 'animal cruelty'. Killing an animal is not considered animal cruelty by itself; it doesn't matter which animal it is. I've lost the count of how many kittens we've put to death in this house.

Generally, I don't feel any particular hunger for carnivores. I am not too much more inclined towards eating a fox/bear/wolf etc. rather than a dog or a cat.

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I've lost the count of how many kittens we've put to death in this house.

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You run Kitty Death Row?

Sorry, just sounded funny. :P

Also, Cute Wolf starting a thread on eating animals... there's a joke in here somewhere.

We have the same obligation to eat animals like animals eat us.

Also, I eaten Rabbit, it tastes like chicken but is far more greasy.

Animal cruelty is torturing animals over prolong periods of time for sick sadist pleasure. Nothing to do with wanting to eat an animal for a meal or killing a pest.

I think animals have no rights....and then neither do humans. I don't consider us being in anyway unique in nature. Sure we can think, and we are a lot more intelligent than the rest of the 'animals', but that is just because we evolved that way....our ancestors were animals after all.
So if we are animals, and we are all the part of some big foodchain (and are presently on the top I think) than we are free to kill and eat anything. So 'naturally' speaking animals have no rights and neither do other humans. The fact that we made laws to protect ourselves from our own kind is different.
On the other hand, once can also say that since we are evolved enough we ought to show compassion for life and stop killing....be it animals or other humans.
But I don't think this middle way makes much sense.....you killing considerately, taking into consideration the endangered species and stuff.....I mean how many species have already become extinct? Had nature really wanted to preserve them (or God, if you will) then it would have happened by itself....we would have still had the mammoths around....
This habit of man trying to play God is just not right in anyway. Killing animals but still trying to keep the species alive......I mean what's the point? All species will become extinct one day! If one is so concerned about nature and her works then stop killing all together.....or else forget conservation.
Just my two cents.

The killing of animals should only be when it is necessary to our own survival, and using every feasible part thus, going about and killing kittens out of some sick pleasure is not my idea of acting upon the notion of mercy; However, I do understand that euthanasia is necessary for population control, as long as it is done as humanely as possible. So suffocating them, shooting them, kicking them, running em' over doesn't qualify. We are "enlightened" beings, we should strive to act like it.

And we are in no way superior to animals, we are as much a subject to the changing environs of the earth as they are, we are quite simply put, as easily affected by the whims of the universe, as they are. Only, when our time comes we will not exist, and yet some animals will continue.

Thats Karma.

Food chain and Darwinism. If we can, then we're allowed to. Simple as that.

Now, that said, human custom has overridden some of the above, more baser, principles, such as the fact that you shouldn't be overly cruel, or that it's more frowned upon in Western culture to go after the domesticated animal, etc. Also, we're at the point where we're so successful in our ability to exercise our will over the animal kingdom that we're allowed to be discriminatory in our taste.

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Originally Posted by india

Killing animals but still trying to keep the species alive......I mean what's the point? All species will become extinct one day! If one is so concerned about nature and her works then stop killing all together.....or else forget conservation.

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Why don't commit suicide? You will die at some point anyway.

Why doesn't a farmer slaughter all his cattle? Because he needs a certain amount alive so he can breed new ones. If we all subscribe to your idea of just killing everything because it will die someday, then before long the earth would only have 1 starving human left.

On topic though, it isn't considered cruelty to kill an animal quickly, and humans are at the top of the food chain so we can eat what we like. On the companionship side of things, I quite like dogs since they are a lot of fun to play with, and they often do stupid, funny things. Cats however, I can't see how people would like them. Perhaps they are really lonely and are desperate for a friend?

Using animals for food or clothing is much different from "torturing" animals. Although I have to admit hypocracy when it comes to sea mammals. Harpooning whales and clubing dolphins seems rather cruel especially considering how intelligent they are. There are too many variables to debate this really when you look through the prism of culture, humanity, and need.

You should not eat carnivors. meat eaters eating meat eaters is always bad. It has caused BSE, and I believe similar diseases among canibals as well.

As an extension of that, you should not eat animals you have a working relationship with. This includes, cats and more especially dogs and horses.

Of all animals dogs are the most loyal to humans, they are pack animals and they "pack" with humans when domesticated. Killing dogs may not be inhumane, but it is disturbing because of the physchological bond that should form, failure to form that bond says a great deal about the human.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Of all animals dogs are the most loyal to humans, they are pack animals and they "pack" with humans when domesticated. Killing dogs may not be inhumane, but it is disturbing because of the physchological bond that should form, failure to form that bond says a great deal about the human.

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You don't think that just a cultural thing? I had a Dog and Rabbit, and never really cared for the Dog, but loved the Rabbit. Having said that I agree with all the OP numbers (apart from 7). I have never really cared for animals, and although I'm not huge on 'animal cruelty', I find I react very differently too it compared to cruelty or actions against people.

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

You don't think that just a cultural thing? I had a Dog and Rabbit, and never really cared for the Dog, but loved the Rabbit. Having said that I agree with all the OP numbers (apart from 7). I have never really cared for animals, and although I'm not huge on 'animal cruelty', I find I react very differently too it compared to cruelty or actions against people.

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I think breeding a working animal like a dog for eating is much more of a "cultural thing", we domesticated dogs for work and partnership (with them as the lesser partners). Eating them as a delicacy is a sign of wealth, you are so well off you can afford to eat your dogs.

Normally, that would mean your society was going down the tubes.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I think breeding a working animal like a dog for eating is much more of a "cultural thing", we domesticated dogs for work and partnership (with them as the lesser partners). Eating them as a delicacy is a sign of wealth, you are so well off you can afford to eat your dogs.

Normally, that would mean your society was going down the tubes.

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I actually think that it would have started out of desperation rather than wealth. When you get to the point that you don't have a choice, it's either eat the dog or die. I think most delicacies would have started like that. Think about it, who would eat a mollusc or scrape fungi off the forest floor unless they were bloody desperate for food? Yet nowadays snails and mushrooms are delicacies that most people only buy if they have a bit of extra cash to spare.

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Originally Posted by miotas

I actually think that it would have started out of desperation rather than wealth. When you get to the point that you don't have a choice, it's either eat the dog or die. I think most delicacies would have started like that. Think about it, who would eat a mollusc or scrape fungi off the forest floor unless they were bloody desperate for food? Yet nowadays snails and mushrooms are delicacies that most people only buy if they have a bit of extra cash to spare.

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No, delicacies are status foods, things people don't normally eat. If you are eating your dogs you will, it's stupid and pathetic and an absolute last resort.

However, if you have a surplus of dogs you can eat them, and that is a sign of pretty extreme wealth.

Mushrooms are actually quite nice, some of them, but they're scarce, hense expensive.

Snails are disgusting, so being able to eat them is a sign of extremely good breeding. You would be surprised the things medieval and renaissance nobles were willing to eat, just to prove a pedigree.

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

4) Why did u can feel animals (read: dogs, cats, monkeys, birds) as family members? If you do that, then why you put all those animals in a level that they shouldn't be...

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When you get home, and have a cat to soothe you, to play with you, to interact and be satisfied with your presence. In time, the animal itself grows to comprehend your very emotions and signs, something even your family cannot. They are capable of understanding and reacting to aggression (When I was a kid, if my parents were angry at me and started talking to me in an aggressive tone or started to hit me, the first thing they saw was the cat running full steam towards them with its claws ready. And the fact that both human and animal have the ability to attach and bond together is one of the deepest things I have ever experienced (The fact that even with me being physically much larger than my cat, my cat recognized my youth and acted basically as she acted to her own cubs, licking and cleaning and defending them when possible). The fact that they could go angry with us for a period of time and then forgive, and many other human related feelings which allows humans to connect and care about these animals.

As such I value the dignity and well being of these animals as much as those of human beings, and if I ever learned that someone had killed my cats, I swear I would go utterly berserk.

What animals are ours to eat? Gah!

Animals have lost the evolution. We won, so we get to eat them all. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

What animals are ours to eat? Gah!

Animals have lost the evolution. We won, so we get to eat them all. Get over it.

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:yes: I would only stipulate that said animals be killed humanely.

CR

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Originally Posted by Jolt

When you get home, and have a cat to soothe you, to play with you, to interact and be satisfied with your presence. In time, the animal itself grows to comprehend your very emotions and signs, something even your family cannot. They are capable of understanding and reacting to aggression (When I was a kid, if my parents were angry at me and started talking to me in an aggressive tone or started to hit me, the first thing they saw was the cat running full steam towards them with its claws ready. And the fact that both human and animal have the ability to attach and bond together is one of the deepest things I have ever experienced (The fact that even with me being physically much larger than my cat, my cat recognized my youth and acted basically as she acted to her own cubs, licking and cleaning and defending them when possible). The fact that they could go angry with us for a period of time and then forgive, and many other human related feelings which allows humans to connect and care about these animals.

As such I value the dignity and well being of these animals as much as those of human beings, and if I ever learned that someone had killed my cats, I swear I would go utterly berserk.

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Know what you mean, they just love being around you, it's even possible for a cat to actually be offended. Not so fun when they bring you a 'present' though, waking up with blood and feathers all over your pillow :beam:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

:yes: I would only stipulate that said animals be killed humanely.

CR

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Agreed. As an aside, it's a bit ironic that I find the methods used to prepare kosher meats to be pretty sick and inhumane by today's standards.

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Originally Posted by Whacker

Agreed. As an aside, it's a bit ironic that I find the methods used to prepare kosher meats to be pretty sick and inhumane by today's standards.

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actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

No, no, no. Don't believe a word Jolt says. Cats are inherently evil, hence why evil megalomaniacs like Blofeld have cats. Whereas dogs are made of pure, concentrated awesomeness, hence Inspector Rex. Haven't you ever seen Cats & Dogs?

Cats are basically stuck up :daisy: whereas a dog is a lovable bundle of fun, genetically programmed to induce maximum fun when interacting with humans. Plus cats hold a grudge, if a dog does something naughty and you clip it, 10 seconds later he will be you best friend again, do the same with a cat and a week later it will still try to claw your face off. Also, you can train a dog, they practically want to be trained, it's how they've been bred over the thousands of years. Cats are comparatively rather stupid, to train a cat you pretty much need to be a reclusive loner with no social life. Oh, and I can't forget play fights. I love play fighting with my labs, if I tried to wrestle a cat it would just go squish. And going for walks, playing fetch, swimming at the beach. I could go on and on. The list of things you can do with a dog that you can't do with a cat is just endless.

Of course all the above doesn't apply to rats like foxies and chihuahuas, they aren't real dogs.

Basically to sum things up, if you've never bonded with a dog, then you are missing out, cats however, well you can just keep eating them.

@Cute Wolf: are there specific breeds of dog that you eat or is any breed good to eat, I don't really have any desire to eat a dog, I'm just curious. Also, have you ever slaughtered any animals you've eaten? I think it's hypocritical that people like eating meat, but think that doing the dirty work is disgusting. Don't get me wrong. I do buy my meat from the shops, but I have beheaded and plucked chickens. Slit a kangaroos throat, after my uncle shot it down, and proceeded to skin it (rather badly unfortunately) and cut it up for cooking, and I have helped cut a cow into steaks.

I hunt and fish and, generally, I do take home what I catch/kill.

I am more comfortable killing, gutting and eating a wild animal/fish than I am killing and dressing poultry that I have raised.

A wild animal lives with an awareness of danger and it's place on the food chain. I am just one more predator passing it's way. It has a chance to escape, at least.

I have eaten wild rabbit, hare, goat, deer, pig.

Rabbit meat doesn't really excite me... don't get me wrong, the meat is fine, but I teethed on rabbit bones so I can take it or leave it now. It doesn't compare well to venison or wild pork, either.

When you intend to eat the results of your hunt, the swiftest death posible, for your quarry, is most desirable. Most serious hunters I know strive for that.

Yeah I forgot about fish, but really that's just run of the mill stuff that everyone does right? I mean who hasn't gutted cleaned a fish? Most people however, will never catch and prepare a mammal or bird. But when you catch it you always do the quick kill, like a knife to the brain for a fish.

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Originally Posted by miotas

a dog is a lovable bundle of fun

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Won't argue with that, love dogs as well, the best natured and most loyal creatures in the world. Love having cats around, they are so satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

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Completely false. Ritual slaughter involves a knife being drawn across the unfortunate animal's throat, and it is bled to death. Which is excruciatingly painful. The animal can survive for minutes in intense pain after it's throat has been slit, and the animal is not stunned.

Of course, other animal slaughtering also uses horrific methods.

To speak on the two ways they use to slaughter animals here, we call one of them 'halal', which penguinking has mentioned in the post above. The other is called 'jhatka', where the animal is killed with a single blow, usually involving breaking of the neck.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

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I somewhat dissagree. Some general methods of slaughter can be vile if not carried out properly. Generally when there is too long taken between the stunning and killing. However, use of the bolt gun, or an iron hammer and the head straight off after are better than just kutting the throat.

Don't worry about the actual slaughter, they have no idea what's going on, and they are naturally not going to have any memory's of the event. It's all cleaned, no traces of blood, rules are very strict. Then they get a pin in their brains, gone. Pigs get gassed first , they are gone when their throat gets slit.. If you want to make things less miserable start with the transport.

edit:not talking kosher or halal here, that should stop not a very nice thing to do, but the usually so vocal guttmenschen are kinda so very very recovering from their last demonstration for something like more soup for Walibies or whatever justifies saying booooo.

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Originally Posted by penguinking

Completely false. Ritual slaughter involves a knife being drawn across the unfortunate animal's throat, and it is bled to death. Which is excruciatingly painful. The animal can survive for minutes in intense pain after it's throat has been slit, and the animal is not stunned.

Of course, other animal slaughtering also uses horrific methods.

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maybe you should do a bit of research into Jewish ritual slaughter before making a comment like that. :dizzy2:

same goes for you too, Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

maybe you should do a bit of research into Jewish ritual slaughter before making a comment like that. :dizzy2:

same goes for you too, Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla.

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I checked just in case, the animal must be concious and the spine must not be severed at the first cut, the two main ways of limiting suffering.

So, I am quite happy to stand by my previous statement. Modern slaughter techniques, properly practiced, are less traumatic and cause less suffering.

Edit: BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm

The idea that severing the front of the neck immidiately causes the animal to lose conciousness is unsupportable, given that we know you can starve the brain for around four minutes in a human.