What animals are ours to kill, and eat, and skin... etc

[Louis VI the Fat]

What animals are ours to eat? Gah!

Animals have lost the evolution. We won, so we get to eat them all. Get over it.

[Crazed Rabbit]

What animals are ours to eat? Gah!

Animals have lost the evolution. We won, so we get to eat them all. Get over it.

I would only stipulate that said animals be killed humanely.

CR

[Whacker]

I would only stipulate that said animals be killed humanely.

CR

Agreed. As an aside, it's a bit ironic that I find the methods used to prepare kosher meats to be pretty sick and inhumane by today's standards.

[Hooahguy]

Agreed. As an aside, it's a bit ironic that I find the methods used to prepare kosher meats to be pretty sick and inhumane by today's standards.

actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

[penguinking]

actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

Completely false. Ritual slaughter involves a knife being drawn across the unfortunate animal's throat, and it is bled to death. Which is excruciatingly painful. The animal can survive for minutes in intense pain after it's throat has been slit, and the animal is not stunned.

Of course, other animal slaughtering also uses horrific methods.

[rajpoot]

To speak on the two ways they use to slaughter animals here, we call one of them 'halal', which penguinking has mentioned in the post above. The other is called 'jhatka', where the animal is killed with a single blow, usually involving breaking of the neck.

[Hooahguy]

Completely false. Ritual slaughter involves a knife being drawn across the unfortunate animal's throat, and it is bled to death. Which is excruciatingly painful. The animal can survive for minutes in intense pain after it's throat has been slit, and the animal is not stunned.

Of course, other animal slaughtering also uses horrific methods.

maybe you should do a bit of research into Jewish ritual slaughter before making a comment like that.

same goes for you too, Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

maybe you should do a bit of research into Jewish ritual slaughter before making a comment like that.

same goes for you too, Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla.

I checked just in case, the animal must be concious and the spine must not be severed at the first cut, the two main ways of limiting suffering.

So, I am quite happy to stand by my previous statement. Modern slaughter techniques, properly practiced, are less traumatic and cause less suffering.

Edit: BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm

The idea that severing the front of the neck immidiately causes the animal to lose conciousness is unsupportable, given that we know you can starve the brain for around four minutes in a human.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

I somewhat dissagree. Some general methods of slaughter can be vile if not carried out properly. Generally when there is too long taken between the stunning and killing. However, use of the bolt gun, or an iron hammer and the head straight off after are better than just kutting the throat.

[Fragony]

Don't worry about the actual slaughter, they have no idea what's going on, and they are naturally not going to have any memory's of the event. It's all cleaned, no traces of blood, rules are very strict. Then they get a pin in their brains, gone. Pigs get gassed first , they are gone when their throat gets slit.. If you want to make things less miserable start with the transport.

edit:not talking kosher or halal here, that should stop not a very nice thing to do, but the usually so vocal guttmenschen are kinda so very very recovering from their last demonstration for something like more soup for Walibies or whatever justifies saying booooo.

[miotas]

No, no, no. Don't believe a word Jolt says. Cats are inherently evil, hence why evil megalomaniacs like Blofeld have cats. Whereas dogs are made of pure, concentrated awesomeness, hence Inspector Rex. Haven't you ever seen Cats & Dogs?

Cats are basically stuck up whereas a dog is a lovable bundle of fun, genetically programmed to induce maximum fun when interacting with humans. Plus cats hold a grudge, if a dog does something naughty and you clip it, 10 seconds later he will be you best friend again, do the same with a cat and a week later it will still try to claw your face off. Also, you can train a dog, they practically want to be trained, it's how they've been bred over the thousands of years. Cats are comparatively rather stupid, to train a cat you pretty much need to be a reclusive loner with no social life. Oh, and I can't forget play fights. I love play fighting with my labs, if I tried to wrestle a cat it would just go squish. And going for walks, playing fetch, swimming at the beach. I could go on and on. The list of things you can do with a dog that you can't do with a cat is just endless.

Of course all the above doesn't apply to rats like foxies and chihuahuas, they aren't real dogs.

Basically to sum things up, if you've never bonded with a dog, then you are missing out, cats however, well you can just keep eating them.

@Cute Wolf: are there specific breeds of dog that you eat or is any breed good to eat, I don't really have any desire to eat a dog, I'm just curious. Also, have you ever slaughtered any animals you've eaten? I think it's hypocritical that people like eating meat, but think that doing the dirty work is disgusting. Don't get me wrong. I do buy my meat from the shops, but I have beheaded and plucked chickens. Slit a kangaroos throat, after my uncle shot it down, and proceeded to skin it (rather badly unfortunately) and cut it up for cooking, and I have helped cut a cow into steaks.

[Rob The Bastard]

I hunt and fish and, generally, I do take home what I catch/kill.

I am more comfortable killing, gutting and eating a wild animal/fish than I am killing and dressing poultry that I have raised.

A wild animal lives with an awareness of danger and it's place on the food chain. I am just one more predator passing it's way. It has a chance to escape, at least.

I have eaten wild rabbit, hare, goat, deer, pig.

Rabbit meat doesn't really excite me... don't get me wrong, the meat is fine, but I teethed on rabbit bones so I can take it or leave it now. It doesn't compare well to venison or wild pork, either.

When you intend to eat the results of your hunt, the swiftest death posible, for your quarry, is most desirable. Most serious hunters I know strive for that.

[miotas]

Yeah I forgot about fish, but really that's just run of the mill stuff that everyone does right? I mean who hasn't gutted cleaned a fish? Most people however, will never catch and prepare a mammal or bird. But when you catch it you always do the quick kill, like a knife to the brain for a fish.

[Fragony]

a dog is a lovable bundle of fun

Won't argue with that, love dogs as well, the best natured and most loyal creatures in the world. Love having cats around, they are so satisfied.

[Cute Wolf]

Thanks for all opinion, sorry, Yesterday, I was busy and didn't have time to open internet... so sorry for that late replies...

@Cute Wolf: are there specific breeds of dog that you eat or is any breed good to eat, I don't really have any desire to eat a dog, I'm just curious. Also, have you ever slaughtered any animals you've eaten? I think it's hypocritical that people like eating meat, but think that doing the dirty work is disgusting. Don't get me wrong. I do buy my meat from the shops, but I have beheaded and plucked chickens. Slit a kangaroos throat, after my uncle shot it down, and proceeded to skin it (rather badly unfortunately) and cut it up for cooking, and I have helped cut a cow into steaks.

I allready killed, and eat several cats and dogs... they are fun to eat with your friends..... Slitting throats of cats and dogs aren't easy though... they always try to fight back... so they must be tied up bludgeoned to "KO" first with anything available (preferably hammer or axe to do a quick job, but in case u are camping in the mountain and forgot that stuff, rocks or even kicks works as well)... But to slaughter rabbits... you just need to choke their neck, stomp their backfeet, and slit their neck, that's it... they won't fight back...

Completely false. Ritual slaughter involves a knife being drawn across the unfortunate animal's throat, and it is bled to death. Which is excruciatingly painful. The animal can survive for minutes in intense pain after it's throat has been slit, and the animal is not stunned.

Of course, other animal slaughtering also uses horrific methods.

Jews and muslims are forbidden to eat anything with blood... so, they must be slitted alive, to made their blood pumped out automatically, I have some experience watching my muslim friends slaughter goats and chickens for BBQ... tied up the animals, hang them upside down, slit their throat, and wait half a hour to leat all it's blood out.... It was a religious regulation of course, and muslim and jews didn't eat most carnivores... as Hooahguy says, a sharp knive will render them instanly unconcious (not dead, but technically, they are allready "must 90% dead", I have the experience of slitting chickens until they runs their blood out... their heart are still contracting), and lessen the suffering.... and as I said from the front, don't quote too much "dogmatic" religious debate... please

You should not eat carnivors. meat eaters eating meat eaters is always bad. It has caused BSE, and I believe similar diseases among canibals as well.

You just need hygenie cooking condition... like when you slaughter and cook the pigs... BSE was caused by protein intrusion, and proteins are denaturated (deactivated permanently), after you treat them in completely boiling water for some time... it was because cannibals didn't cook their meat properly...

Being a vegetarian, I'd rather see animals being killed without suffering (which should be possible) than living its final moments in fear of the knife that will end its life.

Also, I think the scientific world has generally established not all scriptures in the Torah/Bible are correct. Or are you going to suggest the world is 6,000 years old? Of course, you can keep believing in those "fallacies", if I might be free enough to use your own speech.

I bet u are a Buddhist or Wiccan Hax... that religion belief in reincarnation, don't you, and I didn't believe that the chickens I just eat is my previous life childrens..... If I want to say according to what u say... (EDIT: SORRY HAX!!! SORRY!!!)

May I point something out Cute Wolf? It is impossible to have this discussion the way you want without religion. Religion defines the world as something created and owned by someone else, so we need their permission to use what is theirs. If you do not believe in religion however, and we evolved or just are here, then everyone is his own, and either you believe in breaking the sanctity of somethings life or you don't. Do you get what I am saying?
I am a Christian, and God gave man full stewardship over all the earth, so I believe that it is not only mans right but also his responsibility to manage the earth. (Would a good steward of a house not dust the house? Or a good steward of the field not sow, weed, and reap?) What restrictions God puts on eating those animals is beside the point, as we are their stewards and have the right to kill them, skin them, or whatever else we want that does not violate God's laws.

Ahh.. a very good point vux... but just try to minimize the religious factor, that's why God create us to dominate the wolrd, but still preserve it...

--------------------------------------------------

No, no, I don't hate pets... I know when some kind of animals goes too close, you are unseparable and become best friends... but why did most of westerners seems to generalize the "friendship" with all kind of dogs and cats?

Thanks... Cute Wolf
(Note: My name didn't said I didn't eat wolf... allready try smoked wolf slices, imported from China... that's yummy...)

[Hax]

I bet u are a Buddhist or Wiccan Hax... that religion belief in reincarnation, don't you, and I didn't believe that the chickens I just eat is my previous life childrens..... If I want to say according to what u say... Both are lame, It's extreme form pacifism is, for those who weak minded... so don't annoy another religion please... u annoy all the Abrahamic religion's faith u know... sorry...

Buddhist Vajrayana branch, Shingon sect.

First of all, you are in violation of forum rules as you are insulting my religion. This is against the rules which this forum abides to. As far as I know, I have neither annoyed nor insulted your personal religion which I believe to be Roman Catholic.

Secondly, I do not understand your problem with pacifism? I wish to make myself as clear as possible. Generally, the act of killing is regarded as an evil deed. I do not see what is wrong with trying to limit the amount of suffering in the world. If you have a different opinion, I suggest that you first try and learn what suffering is about and read about the Buddhist scriptures. My apologies for stating so, but I believe you are an ignorant person who has little to no knowledge concerning the well-being of others.

Generally speaking, people like you give other Abrahamic faithful a bad name. I sincerely hope you adjust your opinion.

[Cute Wolf]

@ HAX...

Please accept my sincrere sorry for this....

[Hax]

Heh, it's alright.

Anyways, trying to think before acting is usually a good idea.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I allready killed, and eat several cats and dogs... they are fun to eat with your friends..... Slitting throats of cats and dogs aren't easy though... they always try to fight back... so they must be tied up bludgeoned to "KO" first with anything available (preferably hammer or axe to do a quick job, but in case u are camping in the mountain and forgot that stuff, rocks or even kicks works as well)... But to slaughter rabbits... you just need to choke their neck, stomp their backfeet, and slit their neck, that's it... they won't fight back...

Why do you kill cats and dogs, and why are you out in the wilderness hunting without an axe and hammer?!

You just need hygenie cooking condition... like when you slaughter and cook the pigs... BSE was caused by protein intrusion, and proteins are denaturated (deactivated permanently), after you treat them in completely boiling water for some time... it was because cannibals didn't cook their meat properly...

Sorry, BSE isn't destroyed by boiling. It doesn't work, that belief led to cross-infection in hospitals. I stand by my point, it's not safe to eat animals that eat what you eat.

[Cute Wolf]

Why do you kill cats and dogs, and why are you out in the wilderness hunting without an axe and hammer?!

Sorry, BSE isn't destroyed by boiling. It doesn't work, that belief led to cross-infection in hospitals. I stand by my point, it's not safe to eat animals that eat what you eat.

1) Actually, it wasn't in the wilderness hunting, it was just some hiking, and when someone say... "It's a good idea to bought a cat / dog for snack..." and that happened... cats and dogs are commonly sold at what called "Animal market" intended for food here... just as pork, most people here didn't eat them, but they are still widely sold...

2) BSE is caused by misfold proteins

from wikipedia:
The infectious agent in BSE is believed to be a specific type of misfolded protein called a prion. Those prion proteins carry the disease between individuals and cause deterioration of the brain. BSE is a type of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE).[10] TSEs can arise in animals that carry an allele which causes previously normal protein molecules to contort by themselves from an alpha helical arrangement to a beta pleated sheet, which is the disease-causing shape for the particular protein. Transmission can occur when healthy animals come in contact with tainted tissues from others with the disease. In the brain these proteins cause native cellular prion protein to deform into the infectious state, which then goes on to deform further prion protein in an exponential cascade. This results in protein aggregates, which then form dense plaque fibers, leading to the microscopic appearance of "holes" in the brain, degeneration of physical and mental abilities, and ultimately death.

, boiling them is a sure way to denaturate them, and then it was safe... hey, a reason here to cut your own dogs / cats, rather than buy allready slaughtered dog / cat meat is for that: Hygenie... at least u can made sure they are properly cleaned...

[Rhyfelwyr]

I don't think animals have any sorts of rights than mean we are bound to treat them any sort of way, but that does not mean that we are not responsible if we cause them unecessary suffering.

And even then, it is only OK to kill an animal when it is for a good purpose (ie food, not entertainment). I guess you could say then that we should be vegetarians if possible, but eating animals is natural, and that's what is different from killing them for fun or to look stylish in some fur... they are just human leisure pursuits, not an acceptable reason to end an animal's life.

When we do kill animals for food, it should be done as humanely as possible. There have been quite a few documentaries recently on how terribly animals are treated... chickens eat till their legs break, some other bird is stuffed with grain through a tube down its throat until its liver is ready to burst. How someone could try to defend this is beyond me. Maybe if it was to help a famine somewhere I could understand, but in the latter example I gave that bird's liver is just used as a delicacy. Never mind whatever 'rights' people think they have to treat animals any way they like, I'm all in favour of regulations to control it.

Maybe religious practises are an exception. hooah, I think it will be difficult to prove that a several thousand year old religious custom is going to be as good as the latest techniques (well the good latest techniques available, not the horrendous ones some places use nowadays). I don't think most people here would try to stop you from preparing meat the kosher way, but I think you've got to hold your hands up and say maybe it is a bit cruel.

Although kosher/halal practises are nothing compared to some of the things done for the sake of big business.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

1) Actually, it wasn't in the wilderness hunting, it was just some hiking, and when someone say... "It's a good idea to bought a cat / dog for snack..." and that happened... cats and dogs are commonly sold at what called "Animal market" intended for food here... just as pork, most people here didn't eat them, but they are still widely sold...

2) BSE is caused by misfold proteins
, boiling them is a sure way to denaturate them, and then it was safe... hey, a reason here to cut your own dogs / cats, rather than buy allready slaughtered dog / cat meat is for that: Hygenie... at least u can made sure they are properly cleaned...

Wrong, wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bse#UK_...nsed_medicines

The scientific consensus is that infectious BSE prion material is not destroyed through normal cooking procedures, meaning that contaminated beef foodstuffs prepared "well done" may remain infectious.[16][17]