That i....s want make resolution to demand from Poland compensation for....
property that was stolen minorities by nazis and polish communists.
To sum up;
1) compensations for Germans (polish communists send some of them to reich and polish resistance killed some of their poor SS soldiers)
2) compensation for Jewish property stolen by Germans (ahh right - Germans started was because Poles ordered them to start)
3) compensation for Ukrainians (their were ordered to leave eastern borders of Poland and settled on western borders - for supporting criminals from UPA)
All in all here I can give my reply
Dear US congresmen;
Learn history and stop being idiots - this might help your nation.
Or shortly
Ssijcie ...
Yes, however article mention only Jewish property, without speaking about other.
BTW mistake into title- get mad
07-16-2008, 21:44
Adrian II
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooK
BTW mistake into title- get mad
Yes. Let's all get mad.
:coffeenews:
07-16-2008, 22:14
Don Corleone
Re: American congress get maid
I think he means the American Congress is getting mad. And Krook, perhaps you don't realize this, but your government is actually sitting in the catbird seat with Washington right now. Trust me, the Czech Republic aren't the only ones who could be getting a missile defense shield installed. :deal2:
07-16-2008, 22:14
Rhyfelwyr
Re: American congress get maid
Poland is the best country in the world.
See KrooK, I know my history.:2thumbsup:
Although from the title I have to admit I thought that the Congress had hired some extra kitchen staff, you can edit the title you know...
07-16-2008, 22:18
drone
Re: American congress get maid
Congress has a lower approval rating than Bush. So don't take them too seriously, if you ignore them they go away (see Rove, Karl).
07-16-2008, 22:43
Tribesman
Re: American congress get maid
POLAND
(No offence to normal sane Polish people)
07-16-2008, 22:50
Adrian II
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I think he means the American Congress is getting mad.
No, I think he means that we should all get mad. And why not?
I tell you, I'm hopping mad. :coffeenews:
07-16-2008, 23:03
Tribesman
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
I tell you, I'm hopping mad.
yes
Quote:
it is the only country in the European Union without such laws.
Quote:
Poland is the only country in Central and Eastern Europe that has not passed any legislation dealing with private property lost during and after World War II.
its quite maddening:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
07-16-2008, 23:11
Adrian II
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
its quite maddening:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
They've been so busy legislating against homosexuality and abortion that this issue was somehow overlooked.
I'm enraged.
07-16-2008, 23:51
CrossLOPER
Re: American congress get maid
...of course?
07-17-2008, 00:00
Louis VI the Fat
Re : American congress get maid
Hey, there's a party in here and I'm being laid! Erm...I mean late.
Okay, that wasn't at all the funny introduction to my post that I intended it to be, but I couldn't quite nal the pun.
Anyway...WWII restitutions are not as straightforward as they seem. It is a sensitive and complicated issue, where two wrongs don't make a right. Also, let's not be naive and assume that every New York who's posing restitution claims does so from the good of his heart and his innate sense of historical justice.
If every claim by an expelled German, an heir to murdered Jews, or a relocated Ukrainian is honoured, then there won't be any Poland left. On the other hand, if Poland would be compensated for all damages sustained by German or Soviet aggression, no Pole would ever have to work again. Restitutions and compensations are a minefield, and should preferably be free of ancient resentments, anti-Semitism, historical insensitivities and, indeed, also the claim culture of the contemporary American judicial system.
And drink Minute Mad!
07-17-2008, 01:45
Tribesman
Re: American congress get maid
Slight problem there though Louis , the Swiss handed over holocaust victims money to Poland , Poland has not passed that money on , it kept it .
Now I do understand its quite complicated , but if they can pass laws which mean that Poles can claim for assets that their families lost when Poland lost its eastern areas why can they not do the same for families of Polish Jews ?
07-17-2008, 03:59
PanzerJaeger
Re: American congress get maid
This is patently absurd. We're in the middle of an economic crisis and the swine can't even clean up after themselves? :furious3:
No wonder their approval numbers are in the toilet... a toilet, I might add, even their new help can't scrub. :no:
07-17-2008, 08:45
Adrian II
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Now I do understand its quite complicated , but if they can pass laws which mean that Poles can claim for assets that their families lost when Poland lost its eastern areas why can they not do the same for families of Polish Jews ?
According to the Polish spokesman, the problem seems to be that most of the Jews who would be entitled are sort of dead. Go figure.
Typical Jews, eh? They slaughtered each other in the Holocaust so that after the war the few survivors would have it maid.
07-17-2008, 09:16
Husar
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Typical Jews, eh? They slaughtered each other in the Holocaust so that after the war the few survivors would have it maid.
Always thinking with their balls... :no:
07-17-2008, 09:19
SwordsMaster
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
According to the Polish spokesman, the problem seems to be that most of the Jews who would be entitled are sort of dead. Go figure.
Typical Jews, eh? They slaughtered each other in the Holocaust so that after the war the few survivors would have it maid.
It's funny how governments wait 60 years before they start collecting damage claims. Of course few claimants would be around and those who are are probably to senile to remember what to claim for anyway...
07-17-2008, 10:12
Tribesman
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
It's funny how governments wait 60 years before they start collecting damage claims.
It would be if the Swiss hadn't handed over the first batch of money to Poland to distribute to its legal owners 48 years ago .
07-17-2008, 10:26
Sigurd
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
It would be if the Swiss hadn't handed over the first batch of money to Poland to distribute to its legal owners 48 years ago .
Ouch! ... 48 years with interests. No wonder they will go bankrupt. Hey, here is an idea. I live in a small town in Norway, I bet we could lend them some money. :smartass2:
That i....s want make resolution to demand from Poland compensation for....
property that was stolen minorities by nazis and polish communists.
To sum up;
1) compensations for Germans (polish communists send some of them to reich and polish resistance killed some of their poor SS soldiers)
2) compensation for Jewish property stolen by Germans (ahh right - Germans started was because Poles ordered them to start)
3) compensation for Ukrainians (their were ordered to leave eastern borders of Poland and settled on western borders - for supporting criminals from UPA)
All in all here I can give my reply
Dear US congresmen;
Learn history and stop being idiots - this might help your nation.
Or shortly
Ssijcie ...
Why does America need to give compensation to people we did not take things from?
Besides, as already stated, when Poland pays the money it was given by Switzerland, you might be heard by a couple Representatives in the House.
07-20-2008, 01:31
CountArach
Re: American congress get maid
:poland:
KrooK is far right.
:poland:
07-20-2008, 04:02
Seamus Fermanagh
Re: American congress get maid
To Krook's credit, casting aspersions as to the quality of thought in our Congress is one of our longest-standing traditions -- he's merely joining in on the fun. Since his country elected their kings for a while, I'm sure there is a good Polish tradition about ridiculing pols.
I must disagree with the typo'd title however. Having worked there, I can confirm that the halls of Congress are quite clean. However, the number of comb-overs you'll see from the gallery as you look down on either the House or Senate floor suggests that a BARBER would be a real addition.
07-20-2008, 04:16
Tratorix
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooK
That i....s want make resolution to demand from Poland compensation for....
property that was stolen minorities by nazis and polish communists.
To sum up;
1) compensations for Germans (polish communists send some of them to reich and polish resistance killed some of their poor SS soldiers)
2) compensation for Jewish property stolen by Germans (ahh right - Germans started was because Poles ordered them to start)
3) compensation for Ukrainians (their were ordered to leave eastern borders of Poland and settled on western borders - for supporting criminals from UPA)
All in all here I can give my reply
Dear US congresmen;
Learn history and stop being idiots - this might help your nation.
Or shortly
Ssijcie ...
Why is any of this America's responsibility? I don't get it.
07-20-2008, 04:32
seireikhaan
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tratorix
Why is any of this America's responsibility? I don't get it.
Sheesh, haven't you been keeping up on current events? :stare: America is the world's new police force. :whip:
07-20-2008, 04:43
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Re: American congress get maid
Am I the only one who doesn't have a clue what's going on here?
07-20-2008, 05:15
CountArach
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Am I the only one who doesn't have a clue what's going on here?
No. Far from it.
07-20-2008, 18:11
Adrian II
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Am I the only one who doesn't have a clue what's going on here?
Never mind. Just get mad like everyone else. :coffeenews:
A resolution urging Poland to 'immediately enact' legislation on the restitution of property confiscated by the Germans during the war and by the communists afterwards was endorsed yesterday by the US House of Representatives' Committee on Foreign Affairs
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The committee wants the restitution process to be 'unbureaucratic, simple, transparent, and timely' so that it 'results in a real benefit' for the former owners, many of whom 'well into their 80s or older'.
The resolutions mentions also Lithuania, but it criticises Poland as 'virtually alone among post-communist countries' in having failed to enact restitution legislation.
The Donald Tusk administration has been drawing up a bill on the restitution of property confiscated by the communists after WWII. The bill is to be ready by September, and by October is should be submitted to parliament.
'We'll adopt solutions that are both acceptable for the budget and do justice, partly at least', Mr Tusk said Monday.
Asked whether in such a case the resolution wasn't unnecessary, the adviser of one of the congressmen on the committee told Gazeta, 'The consecutive Polish cabinets told us not to rush them. And so we've been waiting for almost twenty years. We took a lot of pressure from our voters to remind the Polish government about this issue. And let me assure you that this resolution could have been much firmer'.
The resolution, a fourth one on the issue that can be adopted by the whole Congress, was lobbied through by American Jewish organisations.
Asked whether he realised what burden the restitution would create for the Polish budget, the congressman's adviser said, 'If you had done it ten years ago, the cost would have been much lower. Besides, no one is expecting you to pay 100 or even 50 percent of the property value. The point is that Poland has done nothing for almost twenty years'.
The Senate's foreign affairs committee is to vote on a similar resolution shortly. If it's passed, the two resolutions will likely be merged into one to become the US Congress's official position.
However the resolution will be but an appeal and will not result in any more decisive steps towards Poland.
During the same session, and unanimously too, the House committee passed a resolution commemorating Irena Sendler, who died in May this year, a 'woman whose courage and heroic efforts helped to save over 2,500 Jewish children from the Holocaust'. The resolution mentions that Ms Sendlerowa worked for the 'underground group Żegota', but says nothing of the fact that Żegota was an official organisation of the Polish Underground State.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tratorix
Why is any of this America's responsibility?
This, I would say, is precisely Krook's point...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedishfish
Why does America need to give compensation to people we did not take things from?
This, I would say, is precisely Krook's point...
With the difference being that Krook makes the - confusingly stated, somewhat single-sided, tentatively anti-Semitic, yet nevertheless more accurate - observation that it is America that insists Poland gives compensation to people Poland did not take things from, including to Americans.
07-20-2008, 20:45
Tribesman
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
observation that it is America that insists Poland gives compensation to people Poland did not take things from
Its a standard point of law Louis , if you recieve stolen goods you have no legitimate claim to them .
Besides which should I mention the nice little thing from the SS archives where they wonder at the marvelous increase in efficiency in rounding up Jews for slaughter by the simple step of awarding one third of each Jews possesions to any decent Pole who turned in one of them evil Jews .
But hey I wouldn't want to mention that as some people like to say.....Learn history and stop being idiots ..but they really don't want to learn their history and stop being idiots .
07-20-2008, 22:33
KrooK
Re: American congress get maid
Tribesman learn history.
That property has been stolen by Germans and big part of it was taken by Americans or Russians after war. Poles found hardly anything because most expensive things were taken to Germany.
American law point do not apply to Poland because American law is not polish law and due to that any American can not tell any Pole what he should do in Poland.
In polish law point
If you receive stolen gods and you are into good faith (for example you found it and it can't be define as treasure) then after 3 years it is your.
If you receive ground of hous and you are into good faith and it is your by 20 years, you can claim it your. If you are not into good faith - you need 30 years. - Polish Civil Code
And this is only law point that is important into this case.
07-21-2008, 01:05
Tribesman
Re: American congress get maid
Rubbish Krook , if that were the case then how can Poland have laws that people can claim for properties taken over 60 years ago .
Quote:
American law point do not apply to Poland because American law is not polish law and due to that any American can not tell any Pole what he should do in Poland.
You really havn't got a clue what the resolution means have you :dizzy2:
I urge you to study it :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
07-21-2008, 03:13
CountArach
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr
BLAAAAAAARG!!!
:furious3::furious3::furious3::furious3:
BARTIX!!!
:whip::whip::whip::whip::whip:
:laugh4: That is the first time in a while that the Backroom has made me actually lol.
07-21-2008, 09:35
Samurai Waki
Re: American congress get maid
The last time I checked, We (Americans) never stepped foot in Poland, at any time, except to unload cargo ships, and refuel at Danzig and then they're off on their merry way again, no stealing from Jews here. And a large majority of the Jewish "goods" taken by American soldiers during WWII was subsequently returned, or sed ex-soldier would've faced pretty severe retribution. Of course a few slip through the fingers, but that can't be helped.
I'm sure of course that the Jewish Committee has banged at the Russian's door a couple of times, and got the subsequent middle finger, so next they turn and whine to our Congress who can yell really well, but isn't good at much else.
...and I want an American Congress Maid...
07-21-2008, 10:15
Tribesman
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
The last time I checked, We (Americans) never stepped foot in Poland, at any time, except to unload cargo ships, and refuel at Danzig and then they're off on their merry way again, no stealing from Jews here.
You must understand Wakizashi . America is run by the jews as part of the global zionist cabal and while America itself didn't go to Poland stealing all the property the worldwide conspiracy did , this is shown by the well established fact that communism is a jewish conspiracy and the communists did go to poland and they did steal . The links between jews and communism is undeniable and is very well illustrated by the fact that when there was a regime strong enough to attempt to take on this threat european jews en masse crammed themselves onto trains and headed east and east was where their communist conspiracy had its roots .
Besides which everyone knows that urging someone to do something is actually code for "do it before we do a blood libel on you and make a human sacrafice of all your little babies" and the fact that other countries have paid up to avoid having their babies slaughtered shows just how real and global this conspiracy is .
Now some might argue that American jews and their passivity is responsible for the holocaust and they wish to blame others , like for example the Poles . But you must understand that they were not really passive at all they were just too busy doing all their sums to work out how much they could steal from Poland and elsewhere in the future .
07-22-2008, 23:46
Hosakawa Tito
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
And here I was going to hire a maid ...
Every man needs a maid....
07-25-2008, 21:45
KrooK
Re: American congress get maid
I just found something.
If American want Poland to pay compensation it should start from America.
1) Native American lost their country.
2) They were sent to gettos.
3) Blacks were hijacked, taken to USA and forced to work.
Pay for that USA.
07-25-2008, 21:51
Tribesman
Re: American congress get maid
BOLLOX
Quote:
I just found something.
Was it down the back of the sofa with a pile of old zlotys a broken hair clip and some belly button fluff?
07-28-2008, 05:59
Kralizec
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Slight problem there though Louis , the Swiss handed over holocaust victims money to Poland , Poland has not passed that money on , it kept it .
Now I do understand its quite complicated , but if they can pass laws which mean that Poles can claim for assets that their families lost when Poland lost its eastern areas why can they not do the same for families of Polish Jews ?
Do tell more? I frankly don't know much about Swiss banking, but somehow I always thought that they kept (most of) the money from WWII and the records closed under the guise of banking secrecy.
Krook - I'm slightly suspicious of why the Congress passed this resolution and it's none of their business to begin with, but they do have a point, don't they?
People with blood on their hands shouldn't be compensated, naturally..
And of course there are people who lost their lands because of foreign invaders and not by any fault of Poland itself - but the Polish government could have indirectly profited from it when the land or goods were "returned" after the war.
07-28-2008, 11:30
KrooK
Re: American congress get maid
What was returned?
Practically nothing. Russians never gave back anything they have stolen.
Germans only part, Americans nothing.
Polish government did not benefit from WW2. Poland was given eastern part of Germany but lost its own Eastern Part.
Territories given were previously under Russian occupation and most of property there was stolen (practically all industry and expensive things). Poland had to rebuilt itself - without cash from Marschall plan and without support of Russia.
So if anyone want any compensation - call Putin, Medviediev or Merkel.
BTW people who feel themselves as punished by nationalisation of property into polish cities during communism can sue Poland into POLISH COURTS. Sometimes they are winning cases, sometimes not - but this is good way.
Tribesman
<Its your brain. Krook might yell about world jewish conspiracy. Eat him now.... >
BTW I wont be joking from your flag because I don't even have time to check what is it. I don't care.
Was it down the back of the sofa with a pile of old zlotys a broken hair clip and some belly button fluff?
:laugh4:
:laugh4:
:laugh4:
I almost spilled my drink. Bravo!
@Krook - You just found out that America has issues with its natives and black people? How big is the rock Poland is hiding under?
Also - what was stolen from Poland by America? Your anger over the pillage would be better directed towards your immediate neighbors. Although, one could say they were taking back what was stolen from them at Versailles - if one really wanted to make a Pole maid.
07-28-2008, 21:42
KrooK
Re: American congress get maid
Property were stolen by Germans. After war or in the end of war most property stolen by Germans captured Brits and American. Not much was given back.
07-28-2008, 22:19
CrossLOPER
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooK
Property were stolen by Germans. After war or in the end of war most property stolen by Germans captured Brits and American. Not much was given back.
You do realize that a lot of the smaller items were probably looted by random people and are now extremely difficult to trace. I believe the larger items have been returned a while ago. There are exceptions. Priam's treasure is still held in Russia out of spite. Then again, Heinrich Schliemann allegedly stole the treasure from Turkey, so.....
07-29-2008, 07:09
Banquo's Ghost
Re: American congress get maid
I was listening to a fascinating programme on the BBC's Radio 4 about a small part of this issue.
Broadcast as part of the tribute to Charles Wheeler, the programme followed his story about the restitution of a small piece of looted art that had come into his possession during his time in Germany just after the war.
Quite uplifting as an individual act of restitution. Well worth listening - follow the link for "Looted Art" at the bottom of the page.
07-29-2008, 13:38
KarlXII
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooK
Property were stolen by Germans. After war or in the end of war most property stolen by Germans captured Brits and American. Not much was given back.
I think you should be lucky your country was given independance.
07-29-2008, 20:25
KrooK
Re: American congress get maid
Independence - are you joking. Given - you miss last 65 years.
For 50 years my country was Russian colony.
Now we are ireally independent - and we gain it alone - without any real help.
It costed milions of Poles but yes - we are independent now.
07-29-2008, 21:21
KarlXII
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooK
Independence - are you joking. Given - you miss last 65 years.
For 50 years my country was Russian colony.
Now we are ireally independent - and we gain it alone - without any real help.
It costed milions of Poles but yes - we are independent now.
Communist or not, you were still granted independance from Soviet Russia. The end of Communist Poland was due to a democratic change of government, however, the Polish nation has been sovereign ever since Russia gave it it's independance.
07-29-2008, 21:46
Conradus
Re: American congress get maid
De jure, yes, but we all know that reality was a little different.
07-29-2008, 22:16
PanzerJaeger
Re: American congress get maid
Poland truly belongs to Germany. Everyone knows this to be true. :book:
07-29-2008, 22:22
KarlXII
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
Poland truly belongs to Germany. Everyone knows this to be true. :book:
I'd like to see where Germany has any claim to Poland, other than the agressive conquest in the Second World War.
07-29-2008, 22:34
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishFish
I'd like to see where Germany has any claim to Poland, other than the agressive conquest in the Second World War.
Modern Germany has no claims, but Germany could lay valid claim to Prussia, including Danzig and Königsberg, as well as the Silesian towns of Breslau and Oppeln.
07-29-2008, 22:35
KarlXII
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Modern Germany has no claims, but Germany could lay valid claim to Prussia, including Danzig and Königsberg, as well as the Silesian towns of Breslau and Oppeln.
Must suck losing two wars in a row then.....
07-29-2008, 22:35
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishFish
Must suck losing two wars in a row then.....
It certainly does, especially when you didn't start the first one that led to the second.
07-29-2008, 22:36
PanzerJaeger
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishFish
I'd like to see where Germany has any claim to Poland, other than the agressive conquest in the Second World War.
Why so serious? :eyebrows:
EDIT: Lets have some fun.
Poland was a creation of Versailles, 123 years after it fell apart due to its own weakness. There were a lot of nations around in 1795 that were absorbed into larger states - do they all deserve to get in on that action?
07-29-2008, 22:46
KarlXII
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
Why so serious? :eyebrows:
EDIT: Lets have some fun.
Poland was a creation of Versailles, 123 years after it fell apart due to its own weakness. There were a lot of nations around in 1795 that were absorbed into larger states - do they all deserve to get in on that action?
I mean, Germany did fall apart due to it's own weakness, why not split it back up?
Now you're thinking. :yes:
Quote:
"The Germany of today is no longer a great nation, it has become a province of Europe."
-Joachim Peiper
07-29-2008, 23:33
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishFish
I mean, Germany did fall apart due to it's own weakness, why not split it back up?
Germany is partitioned.
07-30-2008, 16:50
Brenus
Re: American congress get maid
"It certainly does, especially when you didn't start the first one that led to the second." Didn't but helped the one which did (Austria against Serbia) then invaded a neutral country (Belgium) then...
07-30-2008, 17:06
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Didn't but helped the one which did (Austria against Serbia) then invaded a neutral country (Belgium) then...
When France and Russia were massing troops on the German borders before the war and Germany needed to try to knock France out of the war quickly...
Really, you can't blame Germany for that war more than any other nation.
07-30-2008, 17:24
LittleGrizzly
Re: American congress get maid
After debates i have read on here i have decided world war 1 was equally the fault of the great powers, Russia and France had mobilised thier forces before Germany and if i understand the economics of it correctly there is no way russia and france could afford to mobilise thier forces and not use them.
It certainly does, especially when you didn't start the first one that led to the second.
The first one led to the second? No, a bunch of idiot germans led to the second.
07-30-2008, 18:19
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
The first one led to the second? No, a bunch of idiot germans led to the second.
If it weren't for the Treaty of Versailles, the second would not have happened.
07-30-2008, 18:23
PBI
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
If it weren't for the Treaty of Versailles, the second would not have happened.
I think it's fair to say it's a bit more complicated than that. Just like it's a little simplistic to say WWI was "Germany's fault".
07-30-2008, 18:29
Louis VI the Fat
Re : Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
The first one led to the second? No, a bunch of idiot germans led to the second.
Indeed. :2thumbsup:
Quote:
If it weren't for the Treaty of Versailles, the second would not have happened.
~:mecry:
'Boohoo...If only my mum would've bought me that XBox when I was eight and if only my teachers would've laid off on me when I was twelve and if only she wouldn't have dumped me then I would never have become a gas station robbing piece of trash your honour...boohoo...cry...whine....'
~:mecry:
07-30-2008, 18:33
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Bloody Infantry
I think it's fair to say it's a bit more complicated than that. Just like it's a little simplistic to say WWI was "Germany's fault".
It is a bit more complicated than that, you're right. But I object to the "a bunch of idiot Germans" statement, for a variety of reasons.
07-30-2008, 18:34
Conradus
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
If it weren't for the Treaty of Versailles, the second would not have happened.
The Treaty of Versailles was indeed rather harsh for Germany and her allies, yet as much was to be expected then. The Franco-Prussian war of 1871 wasn't ended nicely either.
But claiming that 'stupid -little- germans' had no (large) part in WWII is utter nonsense.
07-30-2008, 18:48
KarlXII
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
If it weren't for the Treaty of Versailles, the second would not have happened.
If it weren't for the Franco-Prussian War, the first would not have happened.
07-30-2008, 18:52
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conradus
The Treaty of Versailles was indeed rather harsh for Germany and her allies, yet as much was to be expected then.
Many leaders knew exactly what would come from a treaty of that nature. Unfortunately, common sense did not prevail. I'm sure any sane person can agree that it was unjust and harsh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdinand Foch
This is not a peace. It is an armistice for 20 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd George
You may strip Germany of her colonies,
reduce her armaments to a mere police force,
and her navy to that of a fifth-rate power;
all the same, in the end if she feels she has been unjustly treated
in the peace of 1919 she will find means of exacting
retribution from her conquerors.
Next statement...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conradus
But claiming that 'stupid -little- germans' had no (large) part in WWII is utter nonsense.
Do you see anyone claiming that in this thread? I don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishFish
If it weren't for the Franco-Prussian War, the first would not have happened.
In a large part because the German nation may well have not existed in it's present form. If the world hadn't been created, there never would have been a war. :rolleyes:
07-30-2008, 19:35
Conradus
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Many leaders knew exactly what would come from a treaty of that nature. Unfortunately, common sense did not prevail. I'm sure any sane person can agree that it was unjust and harsh.
It was harsh, sure, unjust, perhaps. The Prussians/Germans must've realised that 1871 would lead to another war and their interference with France's colonies the next centuries didn't help either. The entente on the other hand also wasn't a sign of peacefull intentions though. But it didn't have to lead to a second war if the Allies had been prepared (and willing) to follow the Treaty. That means stopping Germany from reentering the Ruhr, from rearming their army, from remilitarizing the Rhine...At every single one of those stages a second world war would've been prevented by some gunshaking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Next statement...
Do you see anyone claiming that in this thread? I don't.
Well you did deny the stupid bunch of germans statement.
07-30-2008, 21:44
PanzerJaeger
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
'Boohoo...If only my mum would've bought me that XBox when I was eight and if only my teachers would've laid off on me when I was twelve and if only she wouldn't have dumped me then I would never have become a gas station robbing piece of trash your honour...boohoo...cry...whine....'
Of course it was a bitter, vengeful, and certainly immature France that pushed for the harshest elements of the treaty. :scastle3:
Most damaging of all may not have been the reparations, but the demands to put the Kaiser on trial. Ensuring an end to the monarchy left a power vacuum that allowed all sorts of extreme elements to thrive.
It is important not to forget the rise of communism and the support it received from the USSR when discussing the run up to the Second World War. The real and perceived threat of a communist takeover was tangible and greatly bolstered Nazi influence. People were certainly bitter over Versailles, but they were terrified of the Reds. Note that they were dealt with immediately, before the Jews, Gypsies and everyone else…
07-30-2008, 22:12
CrossLOPER
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
Of course it was a bitter, vengeful, and certainly immature France that pushed for the harshest elements of the treaty. :scastle3:
I'm pretty sure a large part of their eastern territory was totally razed and many people were lost. People were still very afraid of the Germans. I'm not saying this justifies overly harsh treatment.
07-30-2008, 22:25
KarlXII
Re: American congress get maid
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
Of course it was a bitter, vengeful, and certainly immature France that pushed for the harshest elements of the treaty. :scastle3:
Most damaging of all may not have been the reparations, but the demands to put the Kaiser on trial. Ensuring an end to the monarchy left a power vacuum that allowed all sorts of extreme elements to thrive.
It is important not to forget the rise of communism and the support it received from the USSR when discussing the run up to the Second World War. The real and perceived threat of a communist takeover was tangible and greatly bolstered Nazi influence. People were certainly bitter over Versailles, but they were terrified of the Reds. Note that they were dealt with immediately, before the Jews, Gypsies and everyone else…
The USSR hardly could have affected Communism in other nations. They finished a terrible civil war, fought Japan and Poland, and their officers were being purged. The "Great Red Terror" was simply nothing more than fear exploited.
The Kaiser was the ultimate head of state of Germany. What happens in terms of internal and foreign affairs are normally brought to him. Therefore, he would know of the violation of Belgian neutrality, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Belgium.
There was no "power vacuum". The Kaiser had abdicated before the official peace was signed, Prince Max resigned soon later. Friedrich Ebert took control as the first president.
And for the French, can you blame them? Germany chose to support Austria and chose to violate Belgian neutrality and declare war on the Allies, Germany was, in a way, responsible for the French and English deaths on the Western Front.