Khaan told you that you were lynch immune to mess with you.
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Because you sacrificed yourself to save TC?
That was a dirty trick. Totally unnecessary too... so I'm just wondering what was up with that. Wasted lynch round, adding damaged credibility to the person who died... no explanation or apology.
As each round passes without the other shoe dropping, I grow more suspicious and agitated.
Just keep swimming.
Vote: Chaotix
The mafia deserve to win this game. Every round is a runaway bandwagon. Since when do we at the org bandwagon without shame? You don't put a whole bunch of votes on someone because then you can't reverse it. You don't lynch someone with the claim that they are lying when they can conceivably prove their ability.
My recommendation: pick one of the bandwagoners and get them to equal votes with chaotix.
I agree to a certain extent, unless the case is fool proof we should be prepared for changes of hearts and new info in the round. However I'm not bandwagonning choatix, I placed the first vote. :egypt: Beside I hate bandwagons too. But either way I think choatix is doomed with the votes hes already got.
Or we could kill the guy that lied to me and doesn't care he wasted a round and a life and won't explain why he did it and is obviously not a pro-town role and duly, duly, duly deserves death.
This is fatalism, it that a philosophy you agree with?
Three unvotes and revotes from people who are currently voting for chaotix would draw things much closer. If you hated bandwagons, you would remove your vote because it is now contributing to the bandwagon.
Lynching a role that could resurrect pro town roles would be a bad thing, this is a rash bandwagon.
I find that Winston is posting a suspiciously large amount.
Well, I don't think fatalism is such a bad strategy in this situation. But If I were to unvote, I would be wanting to find someone else who looks suspicious. Unvoting from someone with a good case against them to a random person isn't much use.
And if we do even it up, fate won't decide, but I'm sure the mafia would. I appear to be useless but in smaller games I can really give it my all, I just simply don't have the time or energy to read the whole thread to look for patterns and spot behavior abnormalities. :brood:
For anyone who wasn't paying attention to my post where I accused Chaotix, Sasaki is one of his mafioso buddies. I suggest ignoring him (no offense, Sasaki :bow:).
As long as YLC is next to go. :2thumbsup:
I take extreme offense to this. I rarely if ever defend my mafia buddies after being lynched because people always assume the worst. You appear to have caught three mafia in a row TinCow, first GH, then me, and now chaotix. For a pro town role to cop out a debate is dishonorable. I know I joke around, but I'm not now.
1) Why not let chaotix demonstrate his ability? Simple question
2) Please explain which killers you believe GH to be, and which you believe me to be.
3) You no longer believe there is a vigilante yes? This was an important part of your argument yesterday. There were three killers last night, and you claim to have lynched two and roleblocked the other.
Unvote: Chaotix, Vote: Winston
I find I agree with Sasaki. Whats going on .Org?
Do we, perchance, need to reintroduce the mandatory first vote of Sasaki voting Ichigo, and then the second vote of Ichigo voting Sasaki?
The (now defunct) curse of Kage?
The insults aimed at Lemur?
peverreenk?
When did that Sasaki-Ichigo thing get started? I assume one of them told a big fat lie and the other vowed perpetual revenge?
1) Do you know of a dead pro-town role to use it on? If not, what's even the point of him proving it if it's just exchanging one dead townie for another?
2) I do not believe GH was a mafioso, it was just a typical erroneous early game lynch.
3) I am currently undecided on whether the killer we call Perseus is a vigilante or not. If he is not, I believe him to be an independent of some kind. I claim to have lynched 1 killer and roleblocked 1 killer. I see 2 mafioso last night, plus Perseus. It fits.
Ugh... seriously? Now you think I'm mafia, TinCow?
Well, I'll tell you what. Whether I get lynched or not, you've just screwed the town over by revealing my role. If you thought you might be embarrassed if you were wrong about Sasaki, then you have hit the jackpot of all embarrassing decisions with this move.
And I'll show you why. I'll lay out a nice little list of possible outcomes.
-You lynch me. Congratulations, whether you believe me or not, you, Garuda, and every other pro-town role have lost their only chance at being revived once they die.
-You let me live. In this case, I assume you want me to prove my power is real. Fine. As soon as the mafia sees what I can do, they will try to kill me anyway. And if you try to protect me, then you leave yourself undefended. So we will be constantly playing a guessing game with the mafia over who to protect, and if they are allied, they will simply put a hit on both of us. And then, provided I survive, I will have to sacrifice player after player to keep bringing you back.
What is is you want, exactly? Would you like more information on my role? You have the basic gist of it already.
I cannot account for the absence of Yama, but perhaps it is because he anticipated what you might do. I am not Yama. I am Hortulanes. I am a wandering alchemist, who has learned the secret to create life- and as with all alchemy, it is an equivalent exchange. I must extinguish one life to bring back another. That is all.
Winston isn't acting that odd, he doesn't lurk either, hes new to the org so he post count will be low, but its hard for you to give a proper judgment yet. And whilst he may seem 'suspicious' suspicious is the game he plays all the time from the few games he has been in.
Oh, please. You revealed your role to at least 3 people who were about to be lynched. You clearly do not care about your role getting out.
Garuda and I agree on this. We don't find you particularly useful and think you're scum. Considering we're the only people your claimed role can even theoretically help, that's not a good sign.Quote:
-You lynch me. Congratulations, whether you believe me or not, you, Garuda, and every other pro-town role have lost their only chance at being revived once they die.
You know what, because I am in the mood not to care, and technically, this will only ruin my fun, I'll reveal. I am capable of redirecting abilities to myself, and am immune to night attacks - however, someone still has to die to fulfill the illusion, if I am attacked - it won't be their original target however.
I am the illusions that the Lamia, a Dog-Like creature, and the Perseus rider have all attacked. I've earned the ire of the mafia already,, which would be the Lamia, and I know for a fact that two people capable of killing are Atheotes (Dog-Creature, possibly Anubis) and CCRunner (Mr fancy pants flying horse rider). Chaotix is more then likely Yama, and as you can see, minus the Lamia, that accounts for all killers.
I am sure TC will be able to find out about the Lamia, but as for me, I've wanted to have fun from the beginning, and simply play out my role. Now I can.
Have fun, mafia scum.
Because he is a potential pro town role and we have other pro town roles who might potentially die.
You can at least admit to being fallible...now which killer do you believe me to be? Either the naga or the corpse killer? I want you to be specific, so that either the mafia prove me innocent or have to make sacrifices not too.Quote:
2) I do not believe GH was a mafioso, it was just a typical erroneous early game lynch.
TinCow, you have to admit that your case on Chaotix is simply bad. There are 5 points you laid out.
1) & 2) can be disproven easily, if given a chance.
3) is guilt by association
4) is a coincidence that you find suspicious. You, a claimed pro town role were attacked...there is nothing odd about that. Early on when you claimed you hedged about and it was not clear if you were truly claiming.
5) is the same faulty reasoning you used to get me lynched, which you admitted was mostly gut, and as we know your gut said GH was guilty.
Now, I'm all for granting that Chaotix might be a mafioso with a resurrection ability. If you think so, you are welcome to keep blocking him.
I remember saying very similar things in Netherworld I. In any case, the role is inherently ridiculous. It's an obvious fake.
No, it's guilt because he behaved in an absurd manner defending you. There are plenty of decent ways to find a townie to volunteer to die to save a pro-town role, and that was not one of them. Asking every single person who's about to get lynched to do it is scummy beyond belief.Quote:
3) is guilt by association
Now you're not paying attention, I was attacked on N3. I fully revealed on N2. It was well-known who I was by then.Quote:
4) is a coincidence that you find suspicious. You, a claimed pro town role were attacked...there is nothing odd about that. Early on when you claimed you hedged about and it was not clear if you were truly claiming.
It's only faulty reasoning if it's not true. Sometimes a role block will actually work.Quote:
5) is the same faulty reasoning you used to get me lynched, which you admitted was mostly gut, and as we know your gut said GH was guilty.
What are you arguing here? That it should not be tested? I think you said something about playing it safe earlier didn't you? This is very clearly a poor strategy.
You say it's absurd as town, but don't explain why it wouldn't be absurd as mafia. Why would he throw himself out there to save a doomed partner?Quote:
No, it's guilt because he behaved in an absurd manner defending you. There are plenty of decent ways to find a townie to volunteer to die to save a pro-town role, and that was not one of them. Asking every single person who's about to get lynched to do it is scummy beyond belief.
This brings me to another main flaw in my argument. His role claim is inherently ridiculous and an obvious fake and he behaved in an absurd manner. That should lead you to the conclusion that he is not my mafia partner.
So you fully revealed and were attacked the next night, therefore chaotix tried to kill you because you gave him the code?Quote:
Now you're not paying attention, I was attacked on N3. I fully revealed on N2. It was well-known who I was by then.
No, that's blatantly false. If I reason "this coin will definitely come up heads three times in a row", and it does, my reasoning was still faulty.Quote:
It's only faulty reasoning if it's not true.
Thank you.
Now, why don't we vote for the more-or-less confirmed scum instead of me, who is not scum at all?
I'm not going to be coming back to this thread. I am honestly sick and tired of getting lynched because I have a pro-town role and try to help the town. If you look at what I've been doing, it does not benefit a mafia at all.
If I have been revealing to townies before they die (and indeed I have), then wouldn't that be a case for me not to be mafia? You said it yourself: it only draws attention to me.
Why would a mafioso draw attention to himself by deliberately contacting soon-to-be dead people who have nothing to lose and might reveal me as a last ditch?
Why would I reveal myself at all and take the risk? If I am Yama, then I clearly don't have the power I claim I do. What would be the purpose of contacting them?
Why would I continue to paint a big target on my face in the thread for trying to reason with Sasaki, even after people were voting for me? Why would I even try to reverse that massive bandwagon when it would only fail and draw suspicion to me from the town?
The answer is simple. I needed to figure out who the pro-town roles were, and I needed a list of townies that I could use to revive you, TinCow, in case you died. I wanted to help you.
When I am mafia, I don't go around garnering attention. I lurk, and I shrug off or ignore votes when they come to me. You can go ahead and check out every game that I've been mafia, and I've done the same thing.
But go ahead, lynch your ally. Do whatever you want, TinCow. Because, after tonight, YLC will die, and they will be looking for Garuda to kill, and when they find him, you are next. And there will still be Yama around, laughing in your face once I am dead. And the town will have to find him without you, and definitely without YLC, who has been the town's greatest asset so far, apparently.
I don't think I'm going to post again this round. I might, if I get myself worked up again. But I'm annoyed, and I don't want to argue a losing bandwagon any more. Let me know if I somehow survive, won't you?
I don't know if I buy YLC's claim or the specific accusations. But can we at least get a counter bandwagon on atheotes?
Because my vote was invalid in the last post.
Vote: atheotes
@CCRunner
Just what is your role? Who are you?
@atheotes
What is your role? Who are you?
Based on his behavior and his role claim, lynching him IS playing it safe. The risk is leaving him alive.
Bad play. It happens.Quote:
You say it's absurd as town, but don't explain why it wouldn't be absurd as mafia. Why would he throw himself out there to save a doomed partner?
Why? Because you partners never make mistakes?Quote:
his brings me to another main flaw in my argument. His role claim is inherently ridiculous and an obvious fake and he behaved in an absurd manner. That should lead you to the conclusion that he is not my mafia partner.
Nope, I was just pointing out that you were creating arguments for the sake of arguing, without basing them on the facts. The entire reason you're arguing here is just to create doubt with wordiness.Quote:
So you fully revealed and were attacked the next night, therefore chaotix tried to kill you because you gave him the code?
Sorry, Sasaki, a drop in kills due to a roleblock is not faulty reasoning no matter how many times you say it. It may not be the strongest evidence ever, but it's certainly valid in its own right. If that were the only evidence against Chaotix, I wouldn't even have made this case, but the cumulative evidence is very strong.Quote:
No, that's blatantly false. If I reason "this coin will definitely come up heads three times in a row", and it does, my reasoning was still faulty.
Because it's clearly irrelevant and no one besides me is interested in this:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
That's all well and good, except for the fact I am night kill immune. The only way I am leaving this godforsaken place is if you, as a collective whole, lynch me.
Also, TC is not a killer - I've already checked him, and Seon is clean as well. Me and him have been working together these past few nights. I still believe you are Yama, Chaotix, and will hold you to that by putting you permanently under my shadow until I see fit that you are innocent. Either way, it will be a boon to us, the town.
That is quite simple - I didn't. I even joked about it, and when I thought you had taken it seriously, I even tried to warn you that I could not make you lynch immune.
For clarification, I told ATPG early on that I was a stump, that I had no vote and could not be removed from the game (partially true :wink:) - I told him we could be a duo, knowing that he carried a "lynch immune without actual ability" air about him, I thought we could perpetuate that farce, and he could act as my cover as I fed the town information.
It didn't pan out - sorry toots :laugh4:
No it isn't, not in the slightest. Test the claim, then roleblock him if you must. Not risky.
That works equally well against your argument. Even more so, since townies are more prone to bad play than mafia.Quote:
Bad play. It happens.
Straw man. Who said anything about "never making mistakes"? Role pm's, claims, and strategy are certainly a group effort when I'm mafia, check any old quicktopic.Quote:
Why? Because you partners never make mistakes?
Complete sidestep and slander to boot. I made a legitimate criticism of your argument. You are unwilling to argue because you are convinced of your theory.Quote:
Nope, I was just pointing out that you were creating arguments for the sake of arguing, without basing them on the facts. The entire reason you're arguing here is just to create doubt with wordiness.
You said that "it's only faulty reasoning if it's not true", do you agree or disagree that this is completely false?Quote:
Sorry, Sasaki, a drop in kills due to a roleblock is not faulty reasoning no matter how many times you say it. It may not be the strongest evidence ever, but it's certainly valid in its own right. If that were the only evidence against Chaotix, I wouldn't even have made this case, but the cumulative evidence is very strong.
I know first hand how weak your roleblock-->mafioso accusations are. You have said that it doesn't stand on it's own right, and your other arguments have been dealt with.
******************
At this point, you have ceased logically or rationally defending your case. You contradict yourself, make claims that are logically false, claims that are untrue, and ignore any evidence that contradicts your theory, while admitting none of the proven flaws of your argument.
You have produced no evidence, you have simply argued mafia game theory. The very fact that you find Chaotix's role believable is even more evidence against him. There were only 2 people in Netherworld I that didn't believe my fake role: Andres and you. You've either grown gullible, or you're defending your buddy. I don't buy the former.
...yes? And what are you doing? Besides contradicting yourself and making logically false statements. The only evidence you have is a roleblock which you say you wouldn't make a case on, the rest is mafia game theory as well. "this makes no sense for a pro town role to do", "this role would not be in one of khaan's games".
I haven't read his role pm. If it can be tested it should be, he may still be a mafioso if it is. Regardless, it should be tested, rather than bandwagoning here. With a roleblocker, we are in the luxury position of being able to leave a claimed pro town role alive without risk.Quote:
The very fact that you find Chaotix's role believable is even more evidence against him. There were only 2 people in Netherworld I that didn't believe my fake role: Andres and you. You've either grown gullible, or you're defending your buddy. I don't buy the former.
unvote, vote: atheotes
If a deflector shield type role is in the game, it's not so hard to believe that there's a reviver who has to sacrifice someone to bring someone else back.
And confirmed killer > unconfirmed :daisy: ? role
... - Sigurd
Ah! YLC, that is a pretty epic power you have.
Vote: Chaotix
Seems everything has come out into the open now, but you played us like fools last time TinCow so I'm sure you'll understand if I'm somewhat wary of you.
Hmm. Just read Double A's post. I'd have to agree. It 'd be better to lynch a confirmed killer and block Choatix again tonight would it not. So I change my vote instantaniously!
Unvote vote: atheotes
Nice try at the spin. The other evidence I have produced is:
1) Chaotix has revealed himself multiple times to people who were about to be lynched. He even confessed to this. That is an absurd play for a pro-town role.
2) Chaotix didn't care whether you were a mafioso when trying to save you. That is also not indicative of a pro-town role, particularly considering he was revealing to you in the process.
I have other priorities tonight that do not involve Chaotix. He needs to be lynched here because I am only one person and cannot do everything at once.Quote:
I haven't read his role pm. If it can be tested it should be, he may still be a mafioso if it is. Regardless, it should be tested, rather than bandwagoning here. With a roleblocker, we are in the luxury position of being able to leave a claimed pro town role alive without risk.
I see how you cleverly didn't bold your vote for atheotes, Psychonaut.
Now, ordinarily, that would fool everyone, but not me, no sir! Nothing gets past me. He's your scum buddy and you wanted to look like you were voting him, but not actually cast a legal vote. AHA! Nailed you.
:clown:
I'll still be useful yet, dang it all, even if it is in the pathetic role of reminding people to bold their votes.
If you should want, dear tin of cow, I can watch over Chaotix tonight since I am in the lack of obligations if he does not become lynched.
Lol. No ATPG. But, thanks for pointing it out!
Vote: atheotes
That isn't evidence...calling it such does not make it so. It is your interpretation of mafia game theory that those things are absurd, not indicative of a pro town role etc.
I think the YLC issue is intriguing. Either he is lying about those two being mafia and we should lynch him, or we should lynch them.Quote:
I have other priorities tonight that do not involve Chaotix. He needs to be lynched here because I am only one person and cannot do everything at once.
Besides your answer being a bit non-sequitur, either do one or the other already! Believe me, believe me not - as far as I am concerned, your a mafioso, so to my ears your words mean squat, and others should keep that in mind. The mafia would not handicap themselves 2 kills a night just to frame one man, for however long.
Or do you see me as a roadblock to you and your ilk? Oh, how narrowminded you are - I am more then a mere roadblock in your quest for power :mellow:
How many people have died, 13? I am not a mafioso. It's quite a bountiful amount of information you delivered, one wonders how you got it, of course in other games the mafia have unwisely allowed 3rd parties into their midst. Clearly they have not done so in this game if you still consider me to be mafia, thanks for revealing that.
Having been falsely accused and bandwagoned to death myself (in two games on the same day no less), I am quite sympathetic to Chaotix's cause.
I'm curious what you think of YLC though, he accused chaotix as well and it seems like he has better reason than you unless he made the whole thing up.
Who said I was a third party? I think your reading to much into what I am saying, Sasaki Kojiro. A mafioso who contacts me is a fool and deserves to be tied and prepped for his lynch.
Number of people that have died does not correlate to your innocence, it's whether kills go down or not, and for how long, and by which killers. I will always believe you to be a mafioso, since the only I can die is by lynch, and thus I can only die if I am defamed or disproven - you will be hard pressed to do either.
As to my information, it was what I have learned just simply based upon my ability and paying attention to the write ups - something you'd have caught on to if you did that same.
Well, you aren't claiming to be mafia is what I meant.
The kills can go down from many causes, anyone of the dead could have been one of the mafia, especially since you are suggesting several different killing parties?Quote:
Number of people that have died does not correlate to your innocence, it's whether kills go down or not, and for how long, and by which killers. I will always believe you to be a mafioso, since the only I can die is by lynch, and thus I can only die if I am defamed or disproven - you will be hard pressed to do either.
I got the impression you didn't think atheotes and ccrunner were allied with the Lamia (mafia), why is that?Quote:
As to my information, it was what I have learned just simply based upon my ability and paying attention to the write ups - something you'd have caught on to if you did that same.
And thus, we reach yet another absurd point. Dear me, I don't have to do any work at all to make gibberish spew forth.
They are not acting in any coordinated manner, and their MO's and whom they are seem to conflict with each other once you start trying to piece everything together based upon the actual mythological creatures/beings motivation.
Read above.
All you have to do is misunderstand the other person. Why did you just insult my mother?
Mythology is not my strong point :book:Quote:
They are not acting in any coordinated manner, and their MO's and whom they are seem to conflict with each other once you start trying to piece everything together based upon the actual mythological creatures/beings motivation.
Read above.
I wouldn't expect mafia kills to be coordinated.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Last bijillion posts
I've never seen you be this concerned with a bandwagon before. You're fighting even harder than you did for yourself.
Everything YLC has said in this thread is consistent with the information I have.Quote:
I'm curious what you think of YLC though, he accused chaotix as well and it seems like he has better reason than you unless he made the whole thing up.
Sasaki is touchy because you got a bandwagon on him.
or the fact it could be Chaotix's scum partner.
Vote: Chaotix
unvote, vote:A1_Unit