Westeros: A Game of Thrones.

I have decided this is going to be the best course of action, I am going to have to reboot the game and going to reorganise everything from scratch.

This isn't because of anything John has done, it is mainly because I am ending up in a big situation I am unable to host to the best of my abilities and constricted within results already given out. I cannot go back and amend things without upsetting even more people and it is bad enough if some players were upset the first time.

Allowing me to restart will allow me to implement big changes from the "Get Go".

I will be opening a new thread on this.

Eh, honestly I'm fine for everything, another attempt to get Eddard alive would be nice but I had a good thing going with Tywin training joffrey to be subtle.
I'm curious, what happened to Margaery? what sort of poison was it?

Ok, well I'm going to thank John for this extremely entertaining start and thrilling game concept ^^

Let's see the new version :P

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

I'm curious, what happened to Margaery? what sort of poison was it?

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Posioned at her wedding feast, because (wait for the contrived coincidence) - the wine for the entire toast was poisoned, and Margaery just happened to drink first. A letter was found that seemed to implicate Stannis, and so he was placed under arrest in Oldtown (where he was overseeing the combined naval operation against the Ironborn). None of us really believe it was him, but we weren't informed of his imprisonment until after the turn was over.

EDIT: And I agree, thanks JHT for the concept and thanks Tiaexz for taking over! Shall we all publicise our Quicktopics?

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Eh, honestly I'm fine for everything, another attempt to get Eddard alive would be nice but I had a good thing going with Tywin training joffrey to be subtle.
I'm curious, what happened to Margaery? what sort of poison was it?

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Dude, I haven't even gotten my write-up. ALL I know is that she was poisoned, and that was because yesterday I asked john about how things went on Steam before going to bed.

Well, if we're starting over, it would be best not to. We will likely repeat quite a few of our actions. Don't forgot about the diplomacy, that will surely carry over.

And that was the controversial behaviour? lol
People got mad and not knowing what to do, simply arrested the only suspect...

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Well, if we're starting over, it would be best not to. We will likely repeat quite a few of our actions. Don't forgot about the diplomacy, that will surely carry over.

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Most people will probably just build more ships on the first turn.

*coughs*

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Posioned at her wedding feast, because (wait for the contrived coincidence) - the wine for the entire toast was poisoned, and Margaery just happened to drink first. A letter was found that seemed to implicate Stannis, and so he was placed under arrest in Oldtown (where he was overseeing the combined naval operation against the Ironborn). None of us really believe it was him, but we weren't informed of his imprisonment until after the turn was over.

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...Huh, well seeing as we're starting over and theres no way I could ever use it again, I will admit I sent the wine. Pity it only got one of you. muahaha- etc

It was obvious that was you XD

We were tossing up between you and Dorne, but were planning on blaming you for political reasons. We didn't want to needlessly antagonise Dorne, not when we had a neighbour who had just invaded with 25k troops we could pin it on instead.

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It was obvious that was you XD

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Of course, though not to the characters. I was kinda hoping the strangler would not kick in instantly, let more of you drink it, but I guess it doesnt matter.

Tbh I think that action would have allied everyone against the Lannisters XD

Not when I poisoned Doran and pinned it on Magaery's grandmother on turn 3. :grin:

I'll be honest, when I heard the news I almost declared war on the spot.

I half-intended to declare a southern alliance and march on Lannisport with our combined force.

No cigar, Tywin. Doran doesn't drink gifted wine. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Arjos

And that was the controversial behaviour? lol
People got mad and not knowing what to do, simply arrested the only suspect...

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Nope.That was the unexpected thing. The controversial thing was what the greyjoys probably wondered also what was that. Against our orders to remain upriver oldtown until the forces of Stannis and Renly would engage the Ironborn at Whispering sounds or arrive to Old Town.Our navy decided to peace meal attack them alone when we were just about to have superior odds against them. The whole plan was to lure the Ironborn into trying to stop Stannis from coming into oldtown. Next Stannis then fought them alone after our buts were already kicked.

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Joke's on you, Tywin. Doran doesn't drink gifted wine.

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Heh, Like I would try wine just after doing it to Magaery. Still, if it makes you feel any batter I was trying to get Renly not Magaery.

If your fleet wasn't led by some authoritative character could easily be reckless soldiers...

I love being the Ironborn haha. But a restart is fine with me. Just want to see this game continue! Things will go differently I think next time

Yeah, this time Joffrey will stay in his room until after eddard has been captured.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Heh, Like I would try wine just after doing it to Magaery. Still, if it makes you feel any batter I was trying to get Renly not Magaery.

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I knew it! I asked JHT whether there was any evidence that Margaery was the intended target, but that was just before he left so I didn't get an answer.

Will we necessarily have the same teams? I assume not, so things can happen quite different.

@Kagemusha

Did you use a character as admiral? Anyway, if you "missrolled" it can just happen, that your subjects do different then intended.

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Originally Posted by Arjos

If your fleet wasn't led by some authoritative character could easily be reckless soldiers...

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Im sure the former Master of Ships for the last Targareyn King would apply as somewhat capable fleet commander. Maybe name Redwyne says something to you?

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Im sure the former Master of Ships for the last Targareyn King would apply as somewhat capable fleet commander. Maybe name Redwyne says something to you?

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He could still have made a very bad roll (depending on the exact system).

Then I honestly don't know lol
But he still was a minor character I guess, maybe attacked just because he was confident...
Bottom line I don't see the host changing your orders, it was simply the game, I had very similar troubles...

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Originally Posted by Kival

He could still have made a very bad roll (depending on the exact system).

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What rolls have to do with conditions? Condition is for an order to be executed. Roll is for an outcome. Wouldnt you agree?

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Im sure the former Master of Ships for the last Targareyn King would apply as somewhat capable fleet commander. Maybe name Redwyne says something to you?

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Paxter Redwyne? Isn't he in his 70's during the war of five kings?

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Originally Posted by Kival

He could still have made a very bad roll (depending on the exact system).

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Hence the need for a slight rejig of the system. A capable and experienced admiral, who knows his fleet is outclassed and has explicit orders from his Lord not to engage, shouldn't launch a suicide attack no matter what the dice roll.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Paxter Redwyne? Isn't he in his 70's during the war of five kings?

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All the more reason for him to be cautious. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

...Huh, well seeing as we're starting over and theres no way I could ever use it again, I will admit I sent the wine.

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Well duh.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Heh, Like I would try wine just after doing it to Magaery. Still, if it makes you feel any batter I was trying to get Renly not Magaery.

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What the hell did I ever do to you?

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Paxter Redwyne? Isn't he in his 70's during the war of five kings?

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Not the man to be too reckless.

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Originally Posted by Ishmael

Hence the need for a slight rejig of the system. A capable and experienced admiral, who knows his fleet is outclassed and has explicit orders from his Lord not to engage, shouldn't launch a suicide attack no matter what the dice roll.

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Yeah, I agree.

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Originally Posted by Arjos

Then I honestly don't know lol
But he still was a minor character I guess, maybe attacked just because he was confident...
Bottom line I don't see the host changing your orders, it was simply the game, I had very similar troubles...

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In that case you could order to attack the Lannisters and instead your forces would decide to go after Baratheons. :P

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What the hell did I ever do to you?

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If I killed you and successfully pinned it on Stannis half of your forces would have gone over to my side, including most of your fleet and Highgarden would refuse to work with old baldy. Nothing personal.

Imo it all falls in the unexpected, afaik Redwyne doesn't have stats, other than maybe "adds X to Y of Mace Tyrell"...

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

In that case you could order to attack the Lannisters and instead your forces would decide to go after Baratheons. :P

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LOL that's too much :D
You gave orders to engage, he simply didn't wait for some reason: the execution was different, but still "followed" the order...
Also maybe the Greyjoys sent some ships to delay Stannis, bad winds to get there or something that ruined your course of actions...

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

In that case you could order to attack the Lannisters and instead your forces would decide to go after Baratheons. :P

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If you have a betraying commander that could happen. Yes. But what happened is more a failure and not a betrayal.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

while those who were worst off demand a do-over.

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I'd just like to interject and say that it isn't the fact that Dragonstone came out of that phase in poor shape that resulted in me asking for a do-over, rather the fact that Beskar had dropped from the game as a player in order to take over as game host. Heck, the outcome of Melisandre's actions for the second phase were pretty dire (to the point where she should have just stayed in bed for the duration, seriously), but I was prepared to take it in stride and continue as normal without complaint.

The problem for Dragonstone was that Beskie called the shots in terms of faction orders, had all the diplomatic ties and knew the lore better than the rest of his team put together; it didn't feel fair for the remainder of our team to have to cope with these disadvantages in addition to the fallout from the diplomacy/military choices he made for that turn, and so I suggested we revert back to the start of the phase.

I'd like to thank JHT for his input and particularly his efforts with my own results over the two phases (even the unsuccessful ones! :P); he perfectly encapsulated both my character and the way that her magic and influence worked, something that I was able to use to draw myself further into the game. I hope that your absence is not permanent JHT, you still have an awesome mafia concept to use. :3

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Originally Posted by Arjos

Imo it all falls in the unexpected, afaik Redwyne doesn't have stats, other than maybe "adds X to Y of Mace Tyrell"...

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You cant be serious.:P You are ready to make bold assumptions when you dont know the conditions.Mace Tyrell, Willas Tyrell, Randyll Tarly and Paxter Redwyne were all at Old Town with clear cut split of command for each, just to make sure no mishaps would happen.

As we did not get an description of what exactly happen.I will not join you in making hypothesis about the unknown. Maybe next time we will have better luck, or maybe you are just referring that because the Tyrell characters must be so inferior to begin with.They should not be able to get anything done right? :P

Kage I think that your admiral did all that he was required to do. In our results post it says that instead of waiting to be enveloped in a pincer movement, my Iron Fleet instead sailed straight at you (I guess we had advance warning of Stannis) and took the fight to avoid being attacked on both sides until you were routed, then we turned on Stannis

No no no XD
House Tyrell was my third choice and still is :)
What I'm saying is that what differed was the execution, that happened to me both turns, it's how the game goes, otherwise it's all about coin tosses between two playable factions...
But you are right about the stats and that we can't be certain, but at the same time you are forgetting the influence of the enemy or whatever variables JHT put into it...

Edit: so in the end the Greyjoys attacked and Redwyne, as the good admiral that he is, was compelled to engage instead of being a sitting target...

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

If I killed you and successfully pinned it on Stannis half of your forces would have gone over to my side, including most of your fleet and Highgarden would refuse to work with old baldy. Nothing personal.

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Wait...

I have a fleet?

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Originally Posted by scottishranger

Kage I think that your admiral did all that he was required to do. In our results post it says that instead of waiting to be enveloped in a pincer movement, my Iron Fleet instead sailed straight at you (I guess we had advance warning of Stannis) and took the fight to avoid being attacked on both sides until you were routed, then we turned on Stannis

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My fleet was behind old town upriver.Where it had been most of the time and it was ordered to stay there until you were engaged with the other force.So i doubt you guys sailed through old town to fight my navy. ;)

Ah well that is odd haha. Maybe they went out a bit to early I guess and we took advantage of it. I am suprised the losses on both sides were so low though! I expected more

I expected to know what the losses were.

Kage, can you PM me about what the hell happened? Just copypasting the relevant stuff from your orders would probably be good enough, maybe with some commentary if it doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Double A

I expected to know what the losses were.

Kage, can you PM me about what the hell happened? Just copypasting the relevant stuff from your orders would probably be good enough, maybe with some commentary if it doesn't make sense.

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Il pm you. Though i dont even know what the losses of Ironborn were. :)

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Originally Posted by Double A

Wait...

I have a fleet?

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You dont? Huh, I guess it was pointless after all.

For those interested in playing this setting and genre again, but restarted with some major changes, please sign up here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053410254

As for the Navy results, this is what John said to me.

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Basically the two blockades being cleared by Highgarden meant that most of the Greyjoy orders were unusable in their current form, and attempting to do most of what they wanted in the timescale led to their navy arriving at the Whispering Sound at virtually the same time yours did. Had I left the Highgarden navy at port, you would have been defeated, probably, and the end result would have been an assault on Highgarden, which probably would have failed but still done more damage than what transpired. Your intent was to join up with Highgarden, the Highgarden spies knew both navies where approaching at approx the same time and attempted to meet up with you. Rolls on all three admirals skill to determine what happened led to a strong Greyjoy advantage so they were able to meet both groups seperately and fight two battles as the larger force, rather than one as the smaller. The damage to your fleet and the Tyrells was relatively light, and you were actually in a strong position, with the new Tyrell shiips mext phase you would have smashed through the blockade.

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It should be safe to post the losses in this thread, at least. Everyone knows that Greys and Tyrells have many ships, so the loss figures alone won't really be compromising in any way.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

You dont? Huh, I guess it was pointless after all.

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Double A had a caravel and 5 cogs... I have to admit, the fleet was a big joke, considering even I had 2 carracks, 5 caravels and 10 cogs. (with Saan joining mine on a delay with 5 carracks and 10 caravels)

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

For those interested in playing this setting and genre again, but restarted with some major changes, please sign up here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053410254

As for the Navy results, this is what John said to me.

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Thanks for the information. Now that i know what caused it.It is more easy to understand what happened. In any case like JHT mentioned in his post. I was about to go all Soviet Union on the Ironborn in naval warfare. ;)

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Double A had a caravel and 5 cogs... I have to admit, the fleet was a big joke, considering even I had 2 carracks, 5 caravels and 10 cogs. (with Saan joining mine on a delay with 5 carracks and 10 caravels)

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...Oh man I wish I knew that sooner, 1000 gold would have given me enough wildfire and ships to totally blow yours out of the water.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

You dont? Huh, I guess it was pointless after all.

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Do you see a major port in my lands? No. You don't. So what the hell would I need ships for?

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Do you see a major port in my lands? No. You don't. So what the hell would I need ships for?

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I dont know, what I needed was afew more ships to break stannis' blockade and assumed you had afew, also your lands would have helped pay off the iron bank.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

...Oh man I wish I knew that sooner, 1000 gold would have given me enough wildfire and ships to totally blow yours out of the water.

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One thing which should be looked into would be the balance of land and naval forces.Also the cost for rebuilding them. I doubled my fleet last turn and was prepared to outproduce the ironborn no matter how many they would sink. At least they could not replace the marines so easily.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

It should be safe to post the losses in this thread, at least. Everyone knows that Greys and Tyrells have many ships, so the loss figures alone won't really be compromising in any way.

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The battle of Whispering Sound:


7 carracks, 16 caravels, 37 cogs = 318 = 12
6350 foot, 1050 archers

VS

28 Longships, 790 foot, 630 archers and 10 cavalry = 300 = 15

Inconclusive Iron fleet victory.


Stannis Baratheon comes from the south east, Highgarden fleet from north east. Iron fleet from north west. Highgarden fleet is intercepted and damaged heavily, forcing it to return to Oldtown. Iron Fleet moves to attack Stannis navy and wins inconclusive victory, attempts to prevent his fleet meeting up with Tyrells at Highgarden, but fails. Blockade of Whispering Sound restarted.

Casualties:
Highgarden - 3 carracks damaged, 6 caravels damaged, 7 cogs damaged, 6 sunk. 750 foot lost, 50 archers lost.
Stannis - 1 carrack damaged, 3 caravels damaged, 5 cogs sunk. 250 foot lost, 100 archers, 5 cavalry lost.

Ironborn - 4 longships damaged, 50 foot lost, 25 archers lost.

Particularly the construction times of fleets should be looked into. As Kage says, even if the Iron Fleet had totally destroyed ours we could just rebuild it in a single turn, which doesn't really seem fair. Of course, we faced the same risk that once we had destroyed their fleet, we couldn't disband our own because it could just be zombified at a relatively minor cost. I suggest that either cost to construct or time to construct (or both) for ships should be increased, and maybe new ships should have a penalty to performance due to having inexperienced crews.

Well easy now with the figures, we don't want everyone to know the other's forces :D

Wow, and I was under the impression that one could only build one ship per turn.

How much money were you guys in anyway?

I had 10,000 at start.

5000. I won't tell you my starting force, however. :smartass:

*cough* game of thrones

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Originally Posted by Arjos

Well easy now with the figures, we don't want everyone to know the other's forces :D

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Agreed! The Ironborn would rather that info not come out haha

What about my crap?

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

I dont know, what I needed was afew more ships to break stannis' blockade and assumed you had afew, also your lands would have helped pay off the iron bank.

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I doubt it would've made much of an impact. I think I'm the poorest faction, although that may be Stannis. The only redeeming qualities of House Baratheon are Renly, his claim, the other characters (who are probably or definitely outclassed by at least 2 others, depending on the person), and an almost guaranteed alliance with the Tyrells.

Eh, if it worked your side would have shattered, if it didnt it would have alienated stannis from highgarden+renly. Add to that a little to none cost and it seemed like a pretty smart plan.

Well, considering I could have just asked Stannis to swear on his word if he killed Margaery or not, and no Dornishman would EVER send someone wine from the Arbor, your plan was about as full-proof as the Maginot Line.

Yeah, as I said, the only one with a motive was Tywin, had the game continued I'm 100% all Houses would have eventually marched on Casterly :P

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Eh, if it worked your side would have shattered, if it didnt it would have alienated stannis from highgarden+renly. Add to that a little to none cost and it seemed like a pretty smart plan.

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As I say, we were planning on blaming you even though we weren't sure that you did it - it would have just given us more ammunition in winning, say, the Riverlands to our cause.

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Well, considering I could have just asked Stannis to swear on his word if he killed Margaery or not, and no Dornishman would EVER send someone wine from the Arbor, your plan was about as full-proof as the Maginot Line.

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No you couldnt, you'd be dead or too peeved off to think straight and I was under no illusion that you'd think it was from Doran. And no I wasnt expecting for highgarden to sit back, why do you think I attempted to invade?

1) Stannis would have just sent a shadow of doom after me if he was worried.
2) Stannis was working with us the turn of the wedding, only a lunatic or a literal retard would try to assassinate someone while at the mercy of his enemy.
3) Your other plans all have failed horribly. Patterns are not to be ignored.

Ah, one thing I noticed that my 'RP' of Doran was the exact opposite of his true character. I suppose I'll set that right this time. :tongue:

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1) Stannis would have just sent a shadow of doom after me if he was worried.
2) Stannis was working with us the turn of the wedding, only a lunatic or a literal retard would try to assassinate someone while at the mercy of his enemy.
3) You suck at being Tywin.

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1. Yes, you're right I should have just used the red priest I had to pretend to be Stannis and-oh wait.
2. Yeah, I know, you working with him was obvious from the get go. Heck, I was surprised you and higarden hadnt attacked already.
3. Dont let this get personal.

I'm tired due to a combination of Italian food and Rick Steeves, realized this shortly after posting, and edited it to some extent.

Anyway, it was really freakin' obvious that you were behind it.

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Originally Posted by Double A

1) Stannis would have just sent a shadow of doom after me if he was worried.

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Upon asking him about the scope of the character, JHT told myself and Beskar that Renly's death at the hands of Melisandre's conjuration was one of his most disliked moments in the series. As a result, he said that I wouldn't be able to do that against the main roles, though my chances of succeeding against lesser roles (he loosely hinted at Penrose, given that he's also killed by Melisandre) were much more favourable.

That was fine by me, although it feels a bit lacklustre when you consider how easy it was for the Lannisters to poison your wine in comparison to what Melisandre would have had to do if I had wanted you dead.

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3) Your other plans all have failed horribly. Patterns are not to be ignored.

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Which plans? Capturing Eddard's the only one I can think of and that was ruined by a NPC.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

No you couldnt, you'd be dead or too peeved off to think straight and I was under no illusion that you'd think it was from Doran. And no I wasnt expecting for highgarden to sit back, why do you think I attempted to invade?

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And i always was wondering from the start that you did not try to do any kind of pact with us. Maybe you just had locked the idea that tyrells need to be destroyed?

I had locked the idea that Renly needed to be destroyed and there was no way you would side with me as long as he lived, also the iron bank was asking for 1500 a turn so I was in a rush to acquire enough lands to sustain that without becoming bankrupt.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

I had locked the idea that Renly needed to be destroyed and there was no way you would side with me as long as he lived, also the iron bank was asking for 1500 a turn so I was in a rush to acquire enough lands to sustain that without becoming bankrupt.

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And Tyrell´s would have been the easiest to pick? You know i was completely neutral before last turn. Had you not put Ironborn attack us.We would not have had anything against you. :P

Yeah well the iron born thing was an utter cockup on my end, initially I was to pay them about 100 a turn to blockade oldtown if we went to war, keep you occupied while I picked off Renly, unfortunately I am not the best communicator and Stranger didnt understand the "if we went to war" part and attacked immediately.

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Originally Posted by Secura

Upon asking him about the scope of the character, JHT told myself and Beskar that Renly's death at the hands of Melisandre's conjuration was one of his most disliked moments in the series. As a result, he said that I wouldn't be able to do that against the main roles, though my chances of succeeding against lesser roles (he loosely hinted at Penrose, given that he's also killed by Melisandre) were much more favourable.

That was fine by me, although it feels a bit lacklustre when you consider how easy it was for the Lannisters to poison your wine in comparison to what Melisandre would have had to do if I had wanted you dead.

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It's completely ridiculous. Roughly 50-100 people knew where the wedding was, and at least half were escorts. With the intrigue level that Renly has, the cunning of Margaery, and the vigilance of Brienne, ya'd think that at least one one of them would have thought something was up when Doran Martell sent Arbor wine to the secret wedding location.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Which plans? Capturing Eddard's the only one I can think of and that was ruined by a NPC.

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Exactly?

I dunno, but regardless, it was really damn obvious.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

I had locked the idea that Renly needed to be destroyed and there was no way you would side with me as long as he lived, also the iron bank was asking for 1500 a turn so I was in a rush to acquire enough lands to sustain that without becoming bankrupt.

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I was neutral. NEUTRAL. The only person I don't want on the throne is Joff, and that's because his brain is the size of a walnut.

Most of my land is mountainous or forested, and the waters are far too stormy for a decent fishing industry. How did you expect my lands to help you? Or even go over to you?

Quite simple really, your faction had no heirs or relatives beyond stannis, if I killed you your faction would end and your retainers would join the remaining baratheons, and seeing as Stannis was implicated as responsable all of your retainers aside for the most diehard lannister haters would go to joffrey.
As for the land, well another recruiting ground would be nice and your forces would have made taking Highgarden easy, which is the real monemaker.

I think you should give Blacky and Khazaar a BIT more credit. :tongue: