Sorceror 17er Game Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

firstly, it's the hk vote

secondly, it's the reasoning behind the hk vote

thirdly, it's the timing of the hk vote

fourthly, it's that you made me go look for the reasoning behind the hk vote

fifthly, it's that when i looked for the reasoning behind the hk vote, i found the rest of your iso to lack anything that feels townie to me

for all of that, you've posted far more worthwhile content that i have

so it's no criticism

just you look scummy to me

---

Okay lol

The ti.ing of the hk vote was because I didn't know when I'd be back and even when I say I'm going to leave the thread I switch to phone because I have an unhealthy relationship to mafia. The vote was placed because I noticed people were placing votes and that I hadn't disclosed where my mind was at.

The rest is. Okay, not sure why that would warrant a vote but I respect it gl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

I have an unhealthy relationship to mafia

---

is there any other kind?

:shame:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ladd

vote:sleep

i'll follow my heart

---

I can live with that I think

Vote: sleep

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

if only you went to champs

---

i'm too street for champs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ladd

where dismissive?

the sarcasm/snark is part of why i liked his answer. why do you think thats wolfy?

---

i mean stuff like "nice assumption nerd" "sue me" "Good job on your nothing read on me" "Gotta love semantics reads, those always work out". like basically this stuff saying "your read is dumb" where it felt more like mocking me rather than answering me. it just felt more like how i inuitively expect a wolf to respond to pressure. it felt, uh, weird that basically just pooh pooh'ed my case on him but then turned around and towncored me, didnt feel authentic. it seemed less like the response of someone who believes they are being tunneled by town with a wrong read and more like the response of someone who knows im town and thinks my reasons are bad and can shut me down that way

and, like i said, i fully accept the possibility i might be tunneled there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newcomb

I can live with that I think

Vote: sleep

---

really?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

i mean stuff like "nice assumption nerd" "sue me" "Good job on your nothing read on me" "Gotta love semantics reads, those always work out". like basically this stuff saying "your read is dumb" where it felt more like mocking me rather than answering me. it just felt more like how i inuitively expect a wolf to respond to pressure. it felt, uh, weird that basically just pooh pooh'ed my case on him but then turned around and towncored me, didnt feel authentic. it seemed less like the response of someone who believes they are being tunneled by town with a wrong read and more like the response of someone who knows im town and thinks my reasons are bad and can shut me down that way

and, like i said, i fully accept the possibility i might be tunneled there

---

although...

Newcomb:

do you believe that the other people who suspect you are doing so in a more authentic way than i have?

this question feels awkward but any other way i word it feels loaded

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

in retrospect this was uncharitable to csargo, i think this is ~okay from him for d1 at least

no idea what's up with monty

---

I don't think it's uncharitable tbh, my reads are mostly just feelings from lightly reading the thread and my posts are just pointing out stuff I find kinda wolfy/odd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Csargo

I don't think it's uncharitable tbh, my reads are mostly just feelings from lightly reading the thread and my posts are just pointing out stuff I find kinda wolfy/odd.

---

did you vote for me?

or was that cuth?

Winston:

is your suspicion on zack real?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Most of the people putting me in their wolfreads are villagers

That being said I still think hollowkat's post about me "saying spicy things for the sake of it" isn't a real thought

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monstrdude

At this point though I think over half the game has called me a wolf and if there's not a wolf in there I would be literally floored lmao

---

just wanted to say Monstrdude is likely a member of the village

Well okay I have more to say but not before I read more :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

did you vote for me?

or was that cuth?

---

I didn't vote for you, I don't have strong feeling either way about you. :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

Winston:

is your suspicion on zack real?

---

what do you think?

(genuinely, it's interesting to me to know before i tell)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Csargo

I don't have strong feeling either way about you. :bow:

---

my heart is breaking ~:mecry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

what do you think?

(genuinely, it's interesting to me to know before i tell)

---

leaning no but asking for a reason

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

Newcomb:

do you believe that the other people who suspect you are doing so in a more authentic way than i have?

this question feels awkward but any other way i word it feels loaded

---

Sleep's case on me was about as neutral as I've ever felt about someone suspecting me.

AFAICT no one else is really shading me beyond a few comments here and there that haven't really pinged me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

my heart is breaking ~:mecry:

---

:love:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

leaning no but asking for a reason

---

i'm struggling to think of townie reasons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newcomb

Sleep's case on me was about as neutral as I've ever felt about someone suspecting me.

AFAICT no one else is really shading me beyond a few comments here and there that haven't really pinged me.

---

well, benneh is voting you apparently

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visor

Tally as of #570 (editing in)
1 Newcomb (Nebjiamn)

---

and so is ender

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

[snip]

[..]


Vote: Newcomb

---

alongside a case on his end

i think benneh wrote a post detailing concerns on you too?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newcomb

Sleep's case on me was about as neutral as I've ever felt about someone suspecting me.

AFAICT no one else is really shading me beyond a few comments here and there that haven't really pinged me.

---

Actually wait that's not true, HK shaded me for something and I thought it was kind of in a villagy way, let me find it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Most of the people putting me in their wolfreads are villagers

That being said I still think hollowkat's post about me "saying spicy things for the sake of it" isn't a real thought

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monstrdude

At this point though I think over half the game has called me a wolf and if there's not a wolf in there I would be literally floored lmao

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Go to the forum page and click on the number of posts in this thread. A popup window with ISO links should appear.

Attachment 25406

---

wait that is so much easier from what I have been doing.

My gut tells me Rask is town, but I don't actually know yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

i'm struggling to think of townie reasons

---

well, yeah, you already nailed my scumteam!

so do you have an answer? :P

zack is zack is zack

so townie he's scummy, so scummy he's null, so null he's townie

im rereading ender, i liked the early response to pressure from him, stuff like #94 felt good to me, unbothered. fakeable but a small plus. his response to hollowkat sussing him i liked? just buy the "i don't believe you believe this" reaction he had, he has a lot of solvy posts that look like someone whos sorting through things, and stuff like #375 where he agrees with me but presumably wont give me towncred because he thinks i might be a sneaky good wolf or something. the casing of newcomb also felt like not something he goes all-in on as a wolf d1 (altho he did say he likes to fool good players so maybe i should mentally adjust for that). but i think his reasoning has been decently okay. biggest concern i guess would be him townreading me might be pockety when i was standing up for hm earlir when i said i thought he was villagy. but thats a very slight concern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I think katze is town, I think newcomb is leaning super hard into "newcombness" with these two posts
...
kind of like "this is a meta thing I have been known to do and nobody is doing the thing so I'm going to manufacture a situation where the thing happens and then use that to subvert the expectations" which is probably shit but I like thinking it.

---

What I like about this approach, and this is kind of weird, is that it's not something I think a wolf would think to fake? Like the idea that I as a wolf would be manufacturing a situation - like I somehow put my hand into Katze's mouth and used them like a puppet to suspect me in a way that I could then call out - like if you think about it it's kind of a ridiculous thought to have, and that's why it felt like a villager thing since a wolf would have to fake it and that would be pretty wild. Much more likely it's one of those random thoughts that pop into your head when you're genuinely trying to sort someone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

morning

skimmed a catchup, main impression is that raskol is like, a league above the last time i played with him (swag city, he was mafia) so he's probs a villager

skipped the newcomb wolfcase because i'm kinda leaning towards not killing him today even if i think he has high enough mafia equity, for #raisins

also now that the game ended i was hosting a sorc17 on MU and cape was p largely suspected in the earlygame for iffy reasons and imo was super villagery on the day he died, mbe he was townier cuz he had a vest buuuuuut it's part of why i also kinda dont wanna kill him today either

except my vote is apparently still on him

unvote: Cape90

ill figure out where it goes later

---

I feel like I am playing more towny this game though I am mega struggling at explaining stuff since my brain doesn't seem to want to work on anything but v i b e right now

zack knows how i feel about him

alrighty so it's a joke

i was asking cause your vote movements between zack+dobby/treatment of zack felt pretty fake to me but i wasn't sure if i was reading too much into a joke since at some point you two looked like friends

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

well, benneh is voting you apparently



and so is ender



alongside a case on his end

i think benneh wrote a post detailing concerns on you too?

---

lol maybe it was ender's case and not sleep's? It made like no impression on me, whoever it was.

benneh didn't really strike me as a serious vote

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Csargo

less verbose, less content about the game, and just sort of here but not doing anything. It's not like absolute 100% a woof, because any number of things could be happening. I just want to see if Monty shows up and does anything, and my vote there seems good at the present.

---

this seems a little overly detailed for someone who posted a total of like 3 times

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newcomb

I think we need to start talking about consolidating.

Who's actually likely to go over today?

1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
4. Ladd
5. Winston Hughes
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
8. Csargo
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
13. monstrbro
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

Zack no, bennah... probably not though I can't off the top of my head recall anyone strongly reading bennah one way or another.

Cuth, probably not, some strong voices townread.

Ladd... interesting but I don't realistically think that's ever happening D1 here.

Winston... could see this being a LHF compromise type thing I guess? Possible.

Rask, possible

Me, not happening

Csargo, maaaaybe but kind of a long shot IMO

Ender, maybe

Sunbae, probably not happening

Monte, sure

Dobby, jury's out, see how people react to the catchup. I tend to think not.

Monster, uhhhh yeah moving on

Katz, probably not happening

Sleep, would probably be the spiciest D1 lynch that's actually on the table.

Cape, not actually sure. Can't recall what thread sentiment is on this guy.

HK, outside shot maybe

That leaves us with what, Winston/Rask/Monte as the "taking the easy way out" type options, with Monte being like the pure shot in the dark. and the two C names, Ender, and outside shot of Sleep/HK as the more information heavy but harder kills?

Does that roughly match other people's takes on thread sentiment? Open question. Feels like it's about time to get the ball rolling though.

---

you know what

maybe I am wrong on Newcomb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i still have concerns on newc that maybe kind of align with katze's (part of why i v read katze highly here), but maybe they don't.

i don't want to harp on this too much, because i am extremely unlikely to be able to get newcomb lunched today and even if I could, i wouldn't, as several other of my village reads are saying he's a villager but i at least want my thoughts out in the open

i feel like newc's had a lot of floaty type of posts that could be either alignment but he's also had 2 IMO weak, stretchy type accusations/pokings that made me turn my head.

the first was his response to katze's wolf reading of him and OMGUSing, painting a world wherein katze's internalized a very niche attribute about newcomb's reputation and that katze decided to use that in order to convey a wolf read on him and get credit for it, only for newcomb to become fully aware of this ingrained notion and reverse it on katze in this moment doesn't strike me as very convincing as a thought from v!newcomb.

i realize this is simplifying the totality of newc's read/response but the other parts (katze appearing performative in the read/not conveying a great reason for it) are things that i do believe from newc's POV but i happen to just disagree with from my own about katze's motives and things that I think i vibe with katze on that i can't really convey myself about the rest of/previous newc posts.

the other one is newcomb's post toward csargo about the inclusion of rask. this, for me, is not as big of a thing as the katze stuff, and i realize this wasn't even a full blown (or even half blown?) wolf read of csrago, more clarification, but the levels to decipher that inclusion just gives me creepy vibes/coming from a nefarious pov.

having said all that, newcomb is newcomb and is probably just right on lots of stuff that i'm not even seeing or aware of while i sit around barking up a tree that bears no fruit

---

seems p serious to me bronana, although they don't want you to go over today it seems

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ladd

its hard to believe that a wolf genuinely thoughts saying the red was a good idea

---

stop stealing my thoughts ladd :hide:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

i was asking cause your vote movements between zack+dobby/treatment of zack felt pretty fake to me but i wasn't sure if i was reading too much into a joke since at some point you two looked like friends

---

sorry, i'm not following

what did you think i might be doing there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i still have concerns on newc that maybe kind of align with katze's (part of why i v read katze highly here), but maybe they don't.

i don't want to harp on this too much, because i am extremely unlikely to be able to get newcomb lunched today and even if I could, i wouldn't, as several other of my village reads are saying he's a villager but i at least want my thoughts out in the open

i feel like newc's had a lot of floaty type of posts that could be either alignment but he's also had 2 IMO weak, stretchy type accusations/pokings that made me turn my head.

the first was his response to katze's wolf reading of him and OMGUSing, painting a world wherein katze's internalized a very niche attribute about newcomb's reputation and that katze decided to use that in order to convey a wolf read on him and get credit for it, only for newcomb to become fully aware of this ingrained notion and reverse it on katze in this moment doesn't strike me as very convincing as a thought from v!newcomb.

i realize this is simplifying the totality of newc's read/response but the other parts (katze appearing performative in the read/not conveying a great reason for it) are things that i do believe from newc's POV but i happen to just disagree with from my own about katze's motives and things that I think i vibe with katze on that i can't really convey myself about the rest of/previous newc posts.

the other one is newcomb's post toward csargo about the inclusion of rask. this, for me, is not as big of a thing as the katze stuff, and i realize this wasn't even a full blown (or even half blown?) wolf read of csrago, more clarification, but the levels to decipher that inclusion just gives me creepy vibes/coming from a nefarious pov.

having said all that, newcomb is newcomb and is probably just right on lots of stuff that i'm not even seeing or aware of while i sit around barking up a tree that bears no fruit

---

Oh yeah this post. I wouldn't call this like a lock v read or anything but I did come out of it thinking a light shade of v on bennah; basically I think it's like just the right amount of charitable towards me if he doesn't actually already know my alignment. Just feels natural I guess?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

just some comments on p#181 - townies can be wolfy, in fact, they're usually more wolfy than wolves if they're sorta experienced imo :p And like, looking at the post, it's not.... trying to evaluate the alignment of cape. It's trying to make a case on why cape is wolfy. And that's. Not wolfy (kekw) per se, but it's definitely something that I want to point out to Sleep so that if they're ACTUALLY trying to solve, i'd like a post naming "good" things cape has done as well, because I'm sure you'll find some.

---

Just wanted to point out that Sleep's wall at that point contained literally every message I sent except for my meme thing at the beginning of the game. So basically over there they didn't find my content towny like at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

sorry, i'm not following

what did you think i might be doing there?

---

first impression was throwing shit and seeing what sticks but ultimately i don't really know, i didn't like your suspicion on dobby either though so it's not a sequence of posts i see thriving amounts of village motivation in

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

see, this is the kind of sequence I like

it shows that he was thinking about the game and people's alignments behind the scenes, and was able to quickly prove it with receipts. Didn't make some grandiose post(s) in the thread announcing his switch on Cuth, but gave a solid earthy explanation of what changed his read when asked.

that said if cuth is a wolf it maybe looks bad for cape

like I said earlier, I could be wrong on Cape but he keeps posting thiings that I find villagy and I'm not seeing the issue with his posts

:creep:

---

@zack i just realised


i i genuinely thought this was the post you quoted, the post looks almost identical to the one you linked so thats why the confusion tbh

this is about this post that i called out (i also thought it was rask's post kek)

players i won't chop today: hk, sunbae, bladescape

blade going from double pimp to double angel is something i can't immediately justify

just feels right

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

dobby's iso pretty pimply for me, btw

---

it has pimples?

Winston just explain this beyond finding it "pimply"

town reads: ben, hollowkatt, zack
sunbae, katze, dobby
ender, csargo, rask
winston hughes

null: montmorency

i had winston as null but recent posting is enough to push him a shade above everyone else. i had zack a tier lower based on earlier eval but every time he post it just looks villagy to me.

i wouldnt be shocked if theres a wolf in the more null/less active players but rn it feels kind of dart throw-y such that i dont really want to vote any of them for the d1 elim, if some of them remain null contentwise theyre good exploding vest targets

gun to my head monstr is a villager but i dont rly want to think about him presently


wolfy:
cuth, ladd, newcomb, cape


this is maybe going to be rant-ish, but, i think both ladd and newcomb are p. darn wolfy. i dont really care about reputation, i dont care that people like them, i dont think either has really looked like they care about solving the game, and are riding on the assumption they will get a free pass. i also think their treatment of each other looks very partner-y. i know this is day 1 and doing this kind of pre-flip associating often goes wrong but they seem to be reading each other as villagers off very little whilst not actually talking in a meaningful way and it doesnt feel like how villagers talk to one another.

i already went over newcomb a bit. w/r/t ladd: im a bit conflicted because it feels omgus-y. but i think all of his wolf reads this game have been p bad, not in the sense that they are wrong (because i dont know that), but that the reasonig hasnt been believable. i realize this is partly an ego thing because his current top suspect is me. but his reads on ender/sunbae were very reachy. i didnt say anything at the time because i think in the early game everyones wolf reads are a bit reachy. but it felt a bit like the way they developed didnt feel like an honest evaluation. i realize he backed down on the wolfread of sunbae but it was only after sunbae started giving him a little pushback, and it didnt feel like it developed in an authentic way, insisting on a derp being fake is stretchy. same with ender where it was, like, all tone/vibes in early game and then didnt really seem to update itself as ender contributed more. its like hes not really evaluating new data as it comes in. i dont get the sense ladd cares about solving the game.


(i realize i am basically lobbing grenades by saying some of this stuff which is not really cool to do anonymously so i might have to out)

ooh yeah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cape90

You are reading the same Winston as I am right?

---

i want to straight town read this

but i've been burned before

:sweatdrop:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cape90

it has pimples?

Winston just explain this beyond finding it "pimply"

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

firstly, it's the hk vote

secondly, it's the reasoning behind the hk vote

thirdly, it's the timing of the hk vote

fourthly, it's that you made me go look for the reasoning behind the hk vote

fifthly, it's that when i looked for the reasoning behind the hk vote, i found the rest of your iso to lack anything that feels townie to me

for all of that, you've posted far more worthwhile content that i have

so it's no criticism

just you look scummy to me

---

:music:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

wall hype

---

John Cena

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

John Cena

---

welcome back!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

John Cena

---

:medievalcheers:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

John Cena

---

thats how i feel about your iso:clown:

My first instinct upon seeing the first half is that Zack and Csargo are paired again and hastily voting me out of the Fear of my immense analytical prowess. Here's some thread revenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

i have a townping on montmorency!

---

:bucktooth:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

:huh:

---

Priming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

I started reading posts, had no idea what Mont was referencing, scrolled up and read the set up, and immediately cracked up laughing. Compulsive bomber maker is absolutely hilarious and I beg you to choose me. Just blasting someone in the face on day 2 and then going to dvc laughing with them for it is peak werewolf and I must have it

---

Enemy mine, but could be town.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

if i had expected anything

i think it would have been pretty close to this

zack/ender lock w/w

sunbae going HARD on the villager rp as also a wolf love to see it

---

Put a pin in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

:hide:

my vote was serious

newcomb light v

:hide:

---

Couch motif seems subliminal.

Quote:

---

49 made me smile

---

Don't make me envious of Sunbae. Notice me while there's still time senpai, I'll do you proud.

Quote:

---

i generally don't like arguing back and forth with someone on why i suspect them, it's pretty much a waste of time in my experience :book2:

---

Lore fragment unlocked: Don't debate your suspects, case them to people you want to clear.

Quote:

---

"ah yes fellow vanilla town, i too am vanilla town"

:no:

more like you're a mafia stalker! :smash:

---

Did you think I'm a goon?

Quote:

---

this alt is having a fun time

---

Is Sleep really GH? (Spewed)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

Thats me creeping my way to dvc after I blow up someone on day 2

---

I would love this tbh

---

You ain't ready.

Quote:

---

I really really really really don't want to tryhsrd this game, I really want to see if I can play mafia again wtihhout spending every waking hour on the game

---

Church (hella).

Quote:

---

But

a superstructure at the stern of a vessel.

What the fu k

---

"Fire on the poopdeck."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

this is guaranteed to bite me in the ass but katze has too many votes too quickly and therefore is town.
Ender otoh is not.
vote: ender

---

Not enough to be probative D1 - early D1 at that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

the reads on him were hedged in a jokey sort of way (that i think is typical of early game and not really alignment indicative) but i assume the sentimen behind them is at least somewhat real or they wouldn't express it

well i can go into all the problems i have with the stuff he posted but i don't want to explain it just yet

---

That's a good point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

What villager RP? I laughed at the set up, talked about being nervous about champs, and then made an emote post. That is as NAI posting as it gets.

---

What if it's town-leaning and you denying that makes it >rand maf?

Quote:

---

I'm struggling to parse Cape simultaneously making a wall post about avatar reads and throwing suspicion on people for jokey posts on the first page and a half. Could be wolfy fake suspicion that doesn't flow well or could just be a villager making a shift in seriousness quickly. Maybe someone else has a better take on it.

---

Too much hedging. Death is on the line.

Quote:

---

Also, kind of squinting at Cape's talking about Mont as a "surprised nobody is talking about this cause usually people wolfread it" into saying they don't think that type of read works out very much.

---

That's a good point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

I don't really have any interesting observations so far and I'm not going to try and force them

---

That's a good point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

this seems like a rather harsh interpretation given the stage of the game these posts were made in

---

Correct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Csargo

That's what I thought of it initially, probably reading too much into it tbh.

---

That reassures us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Spicy take

I don't think anyone's been villagy

---

I almost agree with you.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

im going to slice this first post backwards, for no other reason than i want to save the part i feel strongest about for last, although all of it bothers me

okay, so, a lot of cape's early posting can be summed up as "doesn't get jokes". now, not getting jokes isn't inherently wolfy. but take note of the verbiage here - "a little odd". not only is it hedgy it stops short of actually making a call on my alignment - "odd" does not equate to "wolfy", townies can be "odd". it's a little thing but often wolves tend to avoid directly actually calling anything wolfy.

additionally he says katze's response seems "justified" - what parts of that post seem justified? it's...an obvious joke about voting "sleep" to take a nap. it's messing around, there's

again, not getting a joke is not a crime in and of itself but it doesn't seem to me like he's actually reading what is being said in a critical way

now, running back in time 5 seconds, we have another instance of cape not getting a fairly obvious joke

the problem here is he's only responding to this post with a cookie-cutter, broad brushstroke argument - "busywork". what parts of that post seem like busywork? we don't know, because cape doesn't respond to any of the content within. to me this looks like he's making reads based on form rather than content, which is again wolfy because it's a sign that he's not actually reading the game critically - if he had actually tried to engage with any of the "points" zack made in that post i'd be willing to give credit for being tryhardy even if he missed an obvious joke. but as it is, it doesn't look like he actually tried to meaningfully evaluate the stuff zack was saying, because I think if anyone puts more than two seconds of thought into reading his words they'd say "oh, this is an obvious joke".

as it is, it looks like he saw that it looked like a post by post analysis list and decided to call it busy work and shade it. he didn't stop to actually read it.

this part here is just...super wolfy? "hey guys, surprised no one is calling this wolfy, i mean i dont, but you might?". it's such a bizzre comment to make, like he's tossing out a bit of bait to see if someone will bite, but keeping his own distance from it. the problem is this: if he doesn't believe that sort of thing is a meaningful tell, why bring it up at all?

it just doesn't read like a natural thought at all. when someone doesn't think a post is alignment indicative, they typically don't talk about it. but here he's simultaneously trying to shade the post and distance himself from it. i dont get the sense this is something said by someone who is trying to find wolves.

---

"i don't see it" in response to an early wolfread push. not inherently bad in and of itself, but it is the kind of thing wolves frequently say in the earlygame - being dismissive of early wolfreads is an easy way to fake content, because all they have to do is disagree with people. wolves rarely are the type to lead a charge on someone so they'll often hold back when someone makes a stretchy case in the early game

i can sense some people probably rolling their eyes at this, and that's fine, it's a very minor point but i still wanted to discuss it because it pinged me. like i said, by itself this isn't a strong point at all because it can easily be said by a villager, but within the body of work i find it problematic.

says nothing, does nothing.

what, exactly, is there to like about this post? it's kind of generically agreeable in that it makes a point about how to play the game, and I agree that some forward momentum is preferable to a tepid, stagnant game, but it doesn't actually give me feelings on newcomb's alignment one way or the other. and again the verbiage of "in a sort of random way" is another statement that doesn't really do anything except to soften the read that follows.

---

first point, he "doesn't like" a read. but does it mean anything for ladds alignment? he doesn't bother to say. it's easy to agree or disagree with things other people say, but what is harder is to generate your own analysis and thoughts. and what we have is that he is "sort of villagery" (again, more soft language) for "actually the same reasons", which...doesn't make sense at all? it doesn't actually meaningfully address the points ladd is making. why is he villagery for mostly responding to things or "posting just to post"? it's a totally half-baked response, there's nothing in cape's posts that gives a real indicator of why he thinks ender is villagery.

This is a very pedantic sort of dismissal to ender that doesn't really engage with the substance of the argument being made at all. "you said he was putting it forward as if it was a deep read, but it was on one post so it can't be deep at all". which, okay, but he very clearly meant it as a serious read, and cape selectively cuts off the latter parts of his post where ender gets into the more elaborate parts of his thinking about how wolves sometimes try to get too serious too early and hard switch. it doesnt look like hes meaningfully evaluating or considering enders words, just blandly dismissing a point he feels is eay to shoot down. this looks like cape isnt actually trying to read neb or ender. it kind of feeds back into what i said earlier about wolves tending to spend a lot of time in the early game shooting down reads rather than trying to solve.

(fwiw, i did like nebjiamn trying to make a serious accusation early there, and i think the antsiness to move the game forward and disappointment at being engaged with is towny. i didnt really want to respond to the read at the time though because th read itself felt stretchy and it would be more useful to see how the person being accused responds to it rather than saying anything myself. i think dobbys response to it is fine for now. i dont agree with enders take that it could be a wolf play although i understand the reasoning)

this is maybe the most egregious instance of cape's hedgy verbiage - why qualify the read in this way? how can something almost look really wolfy?i can find it understandable only finding something slightly suspicious in the early game, but this just comes across like he's afraid to throw a punch. reads very unnatural. either it's really wolfy or it isn't.

that is to say nothing of how again this is an egregious misreading of katze's post - if he was actually paying attention he'd have noticed the second line talks about a "pasta" and i assume cape is at least familiar enough with the concept of "copypasta" to know what that means.

and again not getting smeone's inside joke is not a crime, but what this again demonstrates is that cape is not really reading posts critically, but selectively, picking and choosing things to comment on. he picks out the first and last lines to attack while missing the part that tells him the bottom part of the post is fake and therefore irrelevant.

---

again with the verbiage heavy on qualifiers, cape can hardly make a read without distancing himself from it

and again he can't actually bring himself to say how the post was supposed to be an "attempt at doing something". he doesn't engage with the substance at all. zack called something like 90% of the posts to that point wolfy, which is obviously absurd. i dont...get the sense cape was actually reading or evaluating that post in a meaningful way, just glossing it over and assuming it had to have been serious

---

I'll need to sleep on this one.
(Hundred posts later too)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

not really a fan of monsters posts so far

:rtwno:

---

I get it, but I'm sure it's just the wind.

Quote:

---

Cape seems more like mischop bait to me than a wolf :shrug:

I guess the massive wall is hypothetically villagy but it seems so unnecessary to go in that hard in so much detail this early

---

Not if you're power towning or scumming. You know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

id rather take a swing at the strongest read i have and see what responses it provokes, get some good ~discourse~ rolling. i had planned to hold off until closer to the 24 hour mark but felt like the conversation was drifting a bit so it was a good time to lay my cards on the table

---

Mission accomplished.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newcomb

Not a super impactful read but I do think if cape = w and especially if zack also= v then Sleep's like never ever a wolf. Being the second person to jump on this stuff after zack, while showing a pretty big awareness of cape's position in the thread - especially that zack kind of jokey townread him - gives him like the perfect ultra sweet opportunity to double down on a bus or pre-bus, instead he's got a very natural post here where he's more focused on the reactions to cape instead of laying out the problems he has with the post. As w/w with cape here he's really really gonna want those problems on the record, and not as like the 4th or 5th person to jump on it.

---

Maybe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newcomb

You... want to give up town KP in a game that's gonna have like 6 deaths in the first four phases?

Like I'm struggling to parse this, you want to have the ability to read into the kill the wolves make at night, but you don't think you'll be able to read into a kill that we collectively decide to make instead of just the wolves? And you want to preemptively make D1 have no stakes by removing the possibility of a wolf dying?

That's like.... some wild degree of TWTBAW / TWTBTWTBAW / TWTBWTRIWMVMWIRWJ:KFSDKDF:JKDF where my brain kind of blue screens.

---

5 deaths at most. Now stip denigrating No Lim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

zack is wolfy

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...838b59896a.gif

---

Preemptively, why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

ehh, how often do you see a wolf who notices their teammate made a wolfy post, notices no one calling it out, and then makes it a point to draw attention to the post but also not push on it? it's really written in a way where he's positioned to get credit off a motnmorency w flip. not saying its impossible, but i dont really see it

---

Sometimes?

Quote:

---

but im also just not going to get deep into worldbuiding on day 1, too many conditionals and the whole thing falls apart if ur wrong on one person

---

Be a hero.

Quote:

---

lock town

---

I guess you are GH.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

- sunbae's opener just seemed fake 2 me, in every game I've played with him as a villager he made a big effort going out of his way to leave PR cover, and while that doesn't really matter in this setup, it still struck me as out of character. *Sunbae* didn't even bother reading a setup before reading a bunch of posts in the actual game? :inquisitive:

- I thought ender had easily the most fry-worthy start and Cape looks more like "villager who gets misyeeted" than an actual wolf to me. Sunbae ignored all ender discourse afaict, and has railed against Cape a good amount and even tried to tie him to Monty as w/w on what seemed like a big stretch to me. Just doesn't make me feel good.

---

So it doesn't fill you with bloodlust?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

afaik we've never played together (you did mentor me in a game once tho) and you're someone i more know based off of reputation than anything

and i think ur pretty weaksauce so far, this post included

---

Magical missiles fired!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i'm talking about the way you're playing with orientation to other people

there's a blurry line between "feels alone" and "would feel somewhat alone as a wolf slash not comfortable enough with partners that they still think/talk/act in a way that's somewhat separate from the rest of the group"

---

Interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

i have a second wolf read i will not be disclosing at this point in time

---

Is it disclosed yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

ur pretty weaksauce so far too (based on a weirdly arbitrary view of your meta)

---

He go so hard he probably town.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

:bullseye: better emotes
:bullseye: better multiquote function
:bullseye: chill games where people aren't mad at everyone by mid day 1 for daring to wolf read them


the org goat

---

*thank*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

I kinda feel like neb coming in while newcomb/ladd/zack have expressed concerns on me and initiating a discussion on it while calling me town is pretty towny but i'm trying really hard to cut out "reads based solely on how the player handles talking about me" cause it's the type of thing I can get turned around on pretty easily. Feels right still

---

Makes sense?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

thats how i feel about your iso:clown:

---

lmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I think sunbae has been like obvs villagery for like the whole game, someone explain to me why I'm wrong because I see quite a few people saying I'm wrong. Not like "HK you are wrong" but lots of "sunbae can absolutely be a wolf"

---

This is towny in a way I struggle putting into my vocabulary :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

My first instinct upon seeing the first half is that Zack and Csargo are paired again and hastily voting me out of the Fear of my immense analytical prowess. Here's some thread revenge.

[...]

Preemptively, why?

---

top part is spicy

to answer the question it was a joke post

for the sole purpose of being contrary im going to call that wall a lazy villager wall

monty's wall of regrets is everything i'd hoped for and more

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

for the sole purpose of being contrary im going to call that wall a lazy villager wall

---

it actually doesnt trigger my gag reflex when it comes to quote stripe walls, which is a lot of replies making irrelevant/conversational things. its at least p focused on game content stuff. idk that its villagy but i dont find it wolfy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

yeah no problem.

My OG vote on Katze was 100% a shitpost vote.
People started piling onto katze tho and that felt weird to me. Like if they're a wolf then it's great, but if they're town a runaway wagon on them to start the game seems like a good opportunity for a wolf or two to get on and try to hang there for a chop today.
That's the basis for the v read there, basically that too many people were like "hmm yes katze is a good vote at this stage of the game".
I subscribe to the theory that early game wagons have lasting impact on the rest of the game through a kind of communal thread memory and that an early game wagon like that on a villager is one way to put a potential strong village player into the POE to make them either post out of it or allow for "bad votes" later in the game by calling back to it.

---

As for why the shade on this post? I think I figured it out and it is the middle part also combined with their explaining why they have a village read on katze. It just feels like a weak reason for giving katze a town pass versus looking into content and finding that out yourself as the bolded just implies bad intentions of everyone that was on the katze vote in a game where there is no majority vote

there's an aloofness to newcomb's posts right now that i have 0 idea how to process

that mont wall sure does exist

i mean i agree that its maybe not the most ~logically sound~ reasoning but i feel like he actually believes it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

i mean i agree that its maybe not the most ~logically sound~ reasoning but i feel like he actually believes it

---

the was wrt #855

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

:angel::angel:

hk, sunbae


:angel:

sleep, newcomb


:beatnik2:
cuth, csar, dobby, rask


:pimp2:

benneh, ladd, katze, monstr


:pimp2::pimp2:

cape, blade, monty


:pimp2::pimp2::pimp2::pimp2::pimp2:

zack

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Csargo

:deal:

Vote:Montmorency

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

:cool3:
zack

:2thumbsup: (villagy enough for d1)
newcomb
katze
cape
hollowkatt

:rtwyes: (slightly above null)
benneh
cuth
ladd
sleep

:hide: (null)
csargo
winston
rask

~:handball: (mostly not here but also didnt particularly care for their posts, slightly below null)
dobby
monstr

:boxedin: (sorry bronana)
sunbae

:damnmate:
ender/bladescape
monty

---

All within minutes. Could be WH distancing (notice leans), but there is another explanation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

@Newcomb: if i'm not mistaken, you have a bit of a policy to not interact with people you wolfread, right? i'm assuming thats why you're kinda talking around me atp

if that's the case then i would prefer you not do that, at least for a bit?

i don't reallllly think your scumread on me is in good faith, but regardless of that i feel like more and more people who know you better than i know you are calling you a villager, some with a decent bit of confidence, and if they're right i feel like it'd be better for both of us to find some common ground

---

Bad katze interaction with NC. NC's #389 response is pleasing. Great WIFOMs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthilius

i was repeating to zack what katze said to newc for effect

---

I'm realizing that Zack and Katze are anagrams. Does it mean something?

Also, now I remember that katze is the one who claimed to be GH, not Sleep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I'm going to point out that last time I was actually wolf with you (Hello remember when I literally cased you and got you voted out and I was red?) I was townread and no one thought I was struggling to get into thread.

This honestly feels a VERY weird take on me given that the game I'm talking about was the last time HK and I played together. For him to seriously believe I would struggle to get my groove on as wolf is...

Kinda honestly wolfy.

---

Your story leaves me in the opposite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Great example:
I once left Pizza alive all game as wolf to see if I could fool him til the end. (I couldn't, he caught me near lylo, but it was fun as hell.)

---

You had a choice and you let him live? What are you, a Bond villain?!?

Vote: Ender

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

- It seems the people with a lot of experience with Mont have them as a wolf so I guess I will as well. It also excites me that my pew pew read of Cape/Mont w/w could be the case still.

---

What do you remember about me from our Zack game a year ago? You were N1ed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ladd

I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?

---

Quote:

---

you going after monty was spooky, then I saw the other orgers thought he was a wolf too so maybe I was missing some meta but from a quick skim of 2 of his games he seems like a perfectly competent wolf so i dont realy see whats up

---

Which games though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

just for the record, this isn't an ironclad meta-read or anything, it's partly to see how he reacts / light a fire under his bum. (if ladd is a wolf he may have tmi'd monty town in #554 :curtain:)

more generally, v possible we are v/v and having a hard time communicating with each other

also this is somewhat tangential but i think newcomb is probably Just A Villager here

---

So bomb ladd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

there's an aloofness to newcomb's posts right now that i have 0 idea how to process

---

just call it scummy?

:shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

just call it scummy?

:shrug:

---

i'm not sure it is otherwise i would

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

The lack of appreciation for my lyrical masterpiece makes me sad.

---

man i thought Kendrick was gonna be the thing I looked forward too the most when it came to lyrical masterpieces :hail:

those are definitely monty walls :book2:

some of newcomb's more recent posts today are meh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i'm not sure it is otherwise i would

---

who won't you chop today?

the fact I don't think katze had a good reason to unvote me worries me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cape90

the fact I don't think katze had a good reason to unvote me worries me

---

go on...

Tally as of #868 (editing in)

Players Votes
Enderwiggin 3 zack, Raskolnikov, Montmorency
Newcomb 3 nebjiamn, Enderwiggin, Sleep
Montmorency 2 Csargo, Sunbae
Sleep 2 ladd, Newcomb
Raskolnikov 2 Cuthillius, Monstrdude
Csargo 2 Cape90, hollowkatt
zack 1 Winston Hughes
hollowkatt 1 Dobby
Sunbae 0
katze 0
ladd 0
Cuthillius 0
Dobby 0
Monstrdude 0
nebjiamn 0
Cape90 0
Winston Hughes 0

some of cape's posts remind me a bit of 2016/2017 era MU Zack

no i wont comment on this further

:curtain:

I haven't processed the Monstr farrago yet, but my vote there is fine for the moment. What's the tally ya bums?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

After coming back to it, you may be right.

As I said earlier, I think I just kneejerk reacted to the first post ruining my happy fun meme time.

---

Hmph.

Anyway, recap: HK suss Ender suss NC?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

I disagree that newcomb has done very little

I've played with Csargo, Monty, and Winston countless times. Csargo and Monty have done close to nothing, and while that's maybe not too out of character for Csargo on d1 he can do more, and Monty/Winston are almost always far more active and engaged than this

---

You sure tho? I had 16 posts D1 of Mass Effect, half of them around EOD. This is how I do.

But the characterization does feel in good faith.

If you were a sorceror, what would happen if you ensorcelled Cuth?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

@Newcomb:

i'm not so much interested in like... convincing you that you're a wolf

---

okay but how do you convince a person that they themselves are wolf?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

who won't you chop today?

---

probably:

zack
Ladd
Newcomb
Sunbae
katze
Sleep
hollowkatt

HK i have been wavering on a bit but i think that might just be read decay more than anything. newcomb is on the list obviously but not cause i v read him so much as others that i trust are

not keen on lunching everyone not on this list but they're folks i don't think i'm going to spend a bunch of energy defending if their wagons pop up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

zack
Ladd
Newcomb
Sunbae
katze
Sleep
hollowkatt

---

too many names on that list

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cape90

okay but how do you convince a person that they themselves are wolf?

---

gaslight gatekeep girlboss

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

too many names on that list

---

who would you remove

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

so that leaves v/v or v(sleep)/w(cape). personally i don't think cape has been very villagery, partially due to meta reasons - it's something i don't really feel like pursuing strongly today though because i think cape is like, blindingly villagery as town after a few phases.

i don't really know what the ~threadstate~ would look like in any of these worlds, that's not really something i'm great at and i feel like the mafia roles aren't particularly important so it's not like mafia are obligated to like, hard defend their vig or something.

my current take is that it's v/v > v(sleep)/w(cape)>>>>>w(sleep)/v(cape)>>>>>>>>w/w

---

1. Why is v/v Sleep/me more likely then v/w Sleep/me? I mean the first part of the first thing you talked upon is why you DONT believe I am town for meta reasons.

2. Okay so from what I understand from the rest of the first part is that I become more towny the longer I am alive, etc. Kinda a based take ngl

3. My bet my arm and ankle that Sleep is town

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

who would you remove

---

everyone but hk and sunbae

you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katze

gaslight gatekeep girlboss

---

true, I wasn't considering that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cape90

the fact I don't think katze had a good reason to unvote me worries me

---

this is...interesting ig

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

everyone but hk and sunbae

you?

---

HK and newc would prob be next off my list

don't see a need to prune it any further than that