Futuramafia [Concluded]

you think i'm scum

i think you aren't

end of story

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I'm sorry, you see what often with Pizza?

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Him dropping those sorts of long reads combined with predictions and recommendations.

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

nevertheless my game is completely different than it was then

so things that may have been indicative at another time

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So are you saying you are playing wolfy, or you aren't?

I don't remember much from your game other than you aren't a soft ball of cheese as a villager, and you are this game so :shrug: what am i to think?

if that is off base, you (or preferably someone else) should tell me

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Him dropping those sorts of long reads combined with predictions and recommendations.

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generally i've seen it in a big post with an agenda

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Originally Posted by atheotes

what do you mean?

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as i said...

I don't know if i can vig someone tonight. I will know when I can when I can.
Unless the wolves kill me...then i'll just flip town. doesn't look like roles are revealed

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Him dropping those sorts of long reads combined with predictions and recommendations.

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generally i've seen it in a big post with an agenda

sorry about the repost my browser went wonky

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Originally Posted by Stork

So are you saying you are playing wolfy, or you aren't?

I don't remember much from your game other than you aren't a soft ball of cheese as a villager, and you are this game so :shrug: what am i to think?

if that is off base, you (or preferably someone else) should tell me

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i'm not being a soft ball of cheese right now either

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i'm not being a soft ball of cheese right now either

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who are your wolves?

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Originally Posted by Stork

who are your wolves?

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novice

i feel quite strongly about my townreads, tyvm :P

Actually going to bed now but want to mention that in the time it took me to make that big post in response to Monty he posted like 5 other things that, trying to be more objective, I can see being reasonably productive, or at least more productive than I am being by tunneling him, so I'm willing to admit I'm maybe in the wrong there, but overall I still think Monty's a decent lynch.

Riedquat wagon seems meh, but I could maybe get behind novice. Need to read through his posts again.

Also I don't think Cuth looks very good in the current Cuth/Stork exchange. I'll need to re-read to figure out just why, but at the time of posting it looks like there was maybe some nervous pocketing going on.

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Originally Posted by Stork

I don't remember much from your game other than you aren't a soft ball of cheese as a villager, and you are this game so :shrug: what am i to think?

if that is off base, you (or preferably someone else) should tell me

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Not sure why you are saying he is soft? While his reads list hasn't really had much backing it up, it has been fairly static and he has been defending it constantly, which to me doesn't sound soft at all.

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Originally Posted by Dp101

Not sure why you are saying he is soft? While his reads list hasn't really had much backing it up, it has been fairly static and he has been defending it constantly, which to me doesn't sound soft at all.

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because he is soft on his wolves

its perfectly easy to be strong on town reads since no one cares about those

hi stork. what's goin on

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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

hi stork. what's goin on

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not much, just arguing with cuth in the thread as you may or may not have realised

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Originally Posted by Stork

not much, just arguing with cuth in the thread as you may or may not have realised

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i lol'd

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Originally Posted by Stork

because he is soft on his wolves

its perfectly easy to be strong on town reads since no one cares about those

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Hey, as someone he has been calling town since his first couple of posts, I care about town reads :P but yeah, I see what you mean about wolves. Doesn't change the fact that I am with El Barto, you are next on my list after this lynch goes through.

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Originally Posted by Stork

not much, just arguing with cuth in the thread as you may or may not have realised

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oh...um...are you arguing? I didn't realize...

I dcould...uh...come back if you need a few...

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Originally Posted by Dp101

Hey, as someone he has been calling town since his first couple of posts, I care about town reads :P but yeah, I see what you mean about wolves. Doesn't change the fact that I am with El Barto, you are next on my list after this lynch goes through.

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i do really think he's likely to be town

read through his posts towards me and today

tell me if you see much scummy motivation

i honestly don't, particularly the ones directly after the t-dome talk

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Originally Posted by Dp101

Hey, as someone he has been calling town since his first couple of posts, I care about town reads :P but yeah, I see what you mean about wolves. Doesn't change the fact that I am with El Barto, you are next on my list after this lynch goes through.

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you better come at me harder than cuth because el barto can't vote

:thumb:

i plan to be hard about big-time scumreads

i haven't had any yet, shoot me

you can have as many town reads as you want, but yesterday we had what seems to be v/v/v/? wagons and a villager got lynched, so they don't seem to do that much good

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i do really think he's likely to be town

read through his posts towards me and today

tell me if you see much scummy motivation

i honestly don't, particularly the ones directly after the t-dome talk

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While he has been looking better lately, right now this argument between you two feels like a wolf (Stork) trying to put the pressure on a vaguely scummy town (you), so I'm not convinced yet that he is innocent.

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Originally Posted by Stork

you better come at me harder than cuth because el barto can't vote

:thumb:

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Oh, I am most definitely bemoaning this fact right about now.

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Originally Posted by atheotes

I dont think it is enought to warrant a lynch today. Only conclusion is that Crimson and Choxorn are not w/w. If Crimson is resolved as town, then the possibility of Choxorn being scum is high.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

wel;l that's just it, palsy-walsy...i may not resolve as anything.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

as i said...

I don't know if i can vig someone tonight. I will know when I can when I can.
Unless the wolves kill me...then i'll just flip town. doesn't look like roles are revealed

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i said if you are resolved as town... and you may not resolve as anything. hence the qn.

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Originally Posted by Stork

you can have as many town reads as you want, but yesterday we had what seems to be v/v/v/? wagons and a villager got lynched, so they don't seem to do that much good

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you're being ridiculous if you're trying to connect my play in this game directly to the d1 eod

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

you're being ridiculous if you're trying to connect my play in this game directly to the d1 eod

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i am mostly talking to dp

and no, im not connecting it i am just showing that town reads are only going to get anyone so far

what do you think of dps read on you cuth?

i think "vaguely scummy town" seems to be a pretty agenda'd way to give a read to me

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Originally Posted by Stork

i am mostly talking to dp

and no, im not connecting it i am just showing that town reads are only going to get anyone so far

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especially on d1 when almost any reads are not very good

not really doing a great job of showing that imo

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i plan to be hard about big-time scumreads

i haven't had any yet, shoot me

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okay

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Originally Posted by Stork

what do you think of dps read on you cuth?

i think "vaguely scummy town" seems to be a pretty agenda'd way to give a read to me

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meh, it's been consistent since eod yesterday i think

i'm never accepting dp as a scum suspect ever

after his posts d1

also, what makes you think i am a wolf pushing a vaguely scummy town rather than, for instance, a town pushing a vaguely scummy town

what makes you know he is town, but still know he is scummy?

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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

okay

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good fox

Cuth is coming off worser in the discussion with Stork. And I actually started from a position of Stork being scummy.

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Originally Posted by atheotes

i said if you are resolved as town... and you may not resolve as anything. hence the qn.

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oh I thought you were saying like what the other guys were saying with...

"if i kill someone tonight, then i am a vig, if i don't i must be scum..."

did someone say there were isos here somewhere?

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Originally Posted by Stork

also, what makes you think i am a wolf pushing a vaguely scummy town rather than, for instance, a town pushing a vaguely scummy town

what makes you know he is town, but still know he is scummy?

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I like his reads more than your's, and again, I trust El's opinion mostly because given that people tolerate his random posting, he must have some goddam incredible reads when he gets serious. And also, you know, the whole confirmed villager thing. I also dislike your minimal involvement on day 1.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

did someone say there were isos here somewhere?

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go to the subforum page and click on replies and click on names

will be uncomplete i think tho

heading off for the night

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

go to the subforum page and click on replies and click on names

will be uncomplete i think tho

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by uncomplete i mean not whole posts, you'll probably have to click to expand

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given that people tolerate his random posting, he must have some goddam incredible reads when he gets serious.

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:laugh4:

Look, fine. I can't keep up any longer until EoD.

Crimson should live, as should novice - he is the intermediary between Stork and DP101 (in terms of style and leads, not alignment).

Vote: Riedquat for pocket-work

Unvote: Pelican
Vote: Riedquat

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Originally Posted by atheotes

Cuth is coming off worser in the discussion with Stork. And I actually started from a position of Stork being scummy.

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Stork is coming off as calmer with a clearer plan as to how he is going to win the argument, but in this particular case (confirmation bias incoming) I think it reflects better on Cuth, because Stork (again assuming he is a wolf) would be absolutely certain as to how to correctly go after him due to having better alignment information, and right now his near unshakable conviction that Cuth is a wolf based off of honestly not that much in my eyes makes me feel that the wolf explanation is more likely for his confidence, again because he has no reason to be this confident about this as town. The above might not make that much sense, I know my logic is a little convoluted right now.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Unvote: Pelican
Vote: Riedquat

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well at least you unvoted pelican

dps posts are okay

i can't shake the feeling that he is somehow mafia though

just putting it out there

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Originally Posted by Visor

dps posts are okay

i can't shake the feeling that he is somehow mafia though

just putting it out there

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Who would you see with me if I were mafia?

i just isoed a bunch of lowposters...oh man they all need to post more.

ried isn't posting much except for commentary.
choxorn is friggin horrible.
john is being silly and i could see being town. voting for winston a lot. do you know him? is he acting odd?
newyn being obtuse and demanding not to read the thread. gee... voting and giving reasons at least.
al sharpton...hmmm seems to be paying attention and voting based off things
there are these things...
"I say El Barto is more crazy when town. When he starts making sense, it's a scumtell."
"I think this is a townie concern."
"This somewhat feels like a buddying attempt, actually."
-analyzing gameplay...but a little generically. hmmmm

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Originally Posted by Dp101

I like his reads more than your's, and again, I trust El's opinion mostly because given that people tolerate his random posting, he must have some goddam incredible reads when he gets serious. And also, you know, the whole confirmed villager thing. I also dislike your minimal involvement on day 1.

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I had like 80 posts day 1 and was very active at the end of the day so saying I wasn't involved seems pretty disingenuous
There are people that have under 10 posts in this game

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Originally Posted by Visor

dps posts are okay

i can't shake the feeling that he is somehow mafia though

just putting it out there

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dp101 is town to me. I'm towning this townboy

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Originally Posted by Stork

I had like 80 posts day 1 and was very active at the end of the day so saying I wasn't involved seems pretty disingenuous
There are people that have under 10 posts in this game

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Ok, I must be misremembering about the day 1 stuff. I just got the impression that you were only really nudging the conversation from one suspect to another, rather than staking out the big cases, which feels like textbook day 1 wolf play. Also agree on the low posters, finding it a little disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Dp101

Ok, I must be misremembering about the day 1 stuff. I just got the impression that you were only really nudging the conversation from one suspect to another, rather than staking out the big cases, which feels like textbook day 1 wolf play. Also agree on the low posters, finding it a little disappointed.

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or textbook villa play

it's day one. you look at everybody that's talkin... no matter what you are

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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

or textbook villa play

it's day one. you look at everybody that's talkin... no matter what you are

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I don't see what makes it more villager than mafia? The way I see it, day 1 mafia wants to post just enough to push the lynch target away from them, and have no reason to take risks, so only make small posts to guide the vote. Town are the ones who try and make very definite posts,

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Originally Posted by Dp101

I don't see what makes it more villager than mafia? The way I see it, day 1 mafia wants to post just enough to push the lynch target away from them, and have no reason to take risks, so only make small posts to guide the vote. Town are the ones who try and make very definite posts,

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And yet in the same breath you are saying that how vehement I am that cute is a wolf is wolfy???

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Originally Posted by Stork

And yet in the same breath you are saying that how vehement I am that cute is a wolf is wolfy???

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Yes, because time has passed and the situation is different. I'm going to stop posting now, I have a really bad migraine and it is making it difficult to focus on making coherent posts.

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Originally Posted by Dp101

Yes, because time has passed and the situation is different. I'm going to stop posting now, I have a really bad migraine and it is making it difficult to focus on making coherent posts.

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I was gonna ask you in what significant way the game state had changed such that you expect wolves to have changed the way they are playing completely and obviously in the last 36 hours, but given you are off

And yes, the latter is evident, it must be quite a migraine.

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Originally Posted by Dp101

I don't see what makes it more villager than mafia? The way I see it, day 1 mafia wants to post just enough to push the lynch target away from them, and have no reason to take risks, so only make small posts to guide the vote. Town are the ones who try and make very definite posts,

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did i say more? no i did not
STFU cutey patooty

whoops i thought that was stork
heh

Army life is relaxed so far, but don't expect active defense from me. Don't let that stop you all from bandwagoning me though.

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Originally Posted by novice

Army life is relaxed so far, but don't expect active defense from me. Don't let that stop you all from bandwagoning me though.

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I am voting for you based on your tone really. so there is not much active defense reqd.
Who do you think are scum/town and for what reasons.

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Originally Posted by Visor

I mean its possible he is just inactive town, which is kind of annoying.

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I am just inactive town.

I honestly have no real opinions on anything at this point. You guys all know how bad I am at reading people early on. Nothing said by any of the people I'm familiar with has struck me as particularly alignment indicative one way or the other. The new people I don't know well enough to be able to read. Crimson and DP are really weird but that doesn't mean they're scummy and it seems like DP's wagon is pushed only by people who haven't played with him.

And I don't see why people are voting for Monty, or Riedquat, or Pelican. At all.

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Originally Posted by Choxorn

I am just inactive town.

I honestly have no real opinions on anything at this point. You guys all know how bad I am at reading people early on. Nothing said by any of the people I'm familiar with has struck me as particularly alignment indicative one way or the other. The new people I don't know well enough to be able to read. Crimson and DP are really weird but that doesn't mean they're scummy and it seems like DP's wagon is pushed only by people who haven't played with him.

And I don't see why people are voting for Monty, or Riedquat, or Pelican. At all.

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[Unaltered comment under spoilers. You decide whether it's pertinent or not. - GH]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

jesus,

well how about getting active

you have NO opinions at all...

that's such a #*%&*# thing to do to a game and the person that created it. YOu signed up. ****ing play

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Originally Posted by atheotes

I am voting for you based on your tone really. so there is not much active defense reqd.
Who do you think are scum/town and for what reasons.

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Yeah I figured.

Not caught up, so refer to my previous reads. I'll try to summarize for you and for myself.

Monty - Not committing to anything, always maintaining deniability.
Riedquat - Not playing and Barto's preferred choice.
BSmith - Low signal to noise ratio.

Based on recent skimming:
Visor - Unfounded and IMO bad reads
Cuthilius - Up and down in scumminess but loses a TD to Stork
DP101 - All over the place, incoherent and inconsistent reasoning, moving from "too wrong to be scum" to "too scummy to be town".
Hanky - Still needs to shine.

Town reads:
Stork
Pelican
Crimson
Winston
ATPG

Gonna list the rest in a separate post and see if I have anything on them.

Atheotes: I like that he wants to examine BSmith and that he prefers Stork over Cuth.

heya novice, what about khaan

why is winston a town read?

and yeah some of hanky's posts suck

clox is worse than ried to me

cuth is trending up a little.
casting a detect pocket spell

Winston plays the way he's done as town with me previously. Admittedly I don't know his scum game.

Murska: Votes Cuth, and now Monty for not scumhunting. I like it.

Khaan looks townish, his exasperation with offsiters changing the metal seems genuine, and I tend to agree that his spite vote is a town tell.

i admit i am not finding a lot of towny behavior. will have to reread things tomorrow


Crimson
Monty
DP101
Stork

Pelican
atheotes

novice

ATPG - true neutral, no idea

murksa
Cuthilius
Riedquat

Hanky
Winston
BSmith

Visor

Khaan
Choxorn

Newyn: Soft claiming seems like bad town play but unnecessarily risky scum play since we're not really pursuing lurkers yet.

Choxorn: Reserve judgement.

Al: So far so good, voted BSmith yesterday and is fighting an urge to vote Monty.

Johnhugh is also not playing.
I think that's everyone. Battery level 66%.

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Originally Posted by Murska

I feel like he's not trying to scumhunt.

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This was actually referring to Cuthilius. Not obvious when ISOing. Here's the Monty vote:

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Originally Posted by Murska

Because you're not vig?

Vote: Montmorency for now, because I generally agree with Pelican.

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Quoted For Emphasis:

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Originally Posted by Pelican

I'll tell you why I'm still harping on Monty: even if this is his normal style, I think it's a style that works well for wolf play and not for town. I still don't know if I could accurately state his opinion on any other player right now. Like it seemed like he thought Winston was scum, or El Barto voters maybe? But he approached it in the language of hypotheticals and generalities, which is so convenient as a wolf because later on he can wriggle out of any accusations based on his opinions. And when confronted on it, the best he can give in response is an OMGUS vote against me? Like, my concern could be nonsense but if it is that's not clearly evident because myself and other players obviously don't see the logical problems with it. So then a helpful response is to refute it so I can right my thinking and focus on better targets. Or maybe my concern is valid, in which case, while I'll acknowledge that you're entitled to play according to your style, you couldn't just oblige me and commit to an accusation?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

To say that I have not made commitments in factual statements, while claiming that simple statement of "I think X is town/scum" constitutes a real commitment, is kindly put obscurantist bogus.

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I really don't see how.

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Originally Posted by Visor

monty is rarely the kind of person to be a pinning down type from my experience with him

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Ok? He must be a very successful scummie then?

OOC: I think some people need to realise not everybody plays the game the way they do, and I'm pretty sure if Zack had an issue with how Choxorn, or myself, were playing, he'd send us a pm telling us to get our shiny metal asses in gear. I've read the thread, all of it, and simply haven't found anything worth commenting on that hasn't been mentioned. I could post a number of pointless posts, but that would give other players searching for the wheat in the chaff even more chaff to search through. Fair enough when a game is quiet and not much posting being done to call people out on inactivity, when it's as active as this game, I don't see the issue. Like many in the org, I see a mafia game as something I do to interact with people I enjoy talking with online, solving the game or winning are not that important, I think that throws people from other sites, where winning and solving the game are paramount. Plus when there is as much irritability and rudeness as this thread, I simply couldn't be bothered. I could also claim that rping my role would encourage little activity, but that would be disingenuous, if true. :bow:

IC: Lot's of angry rasping tongues in here, I could put them to much better use. Ah ha ah ha ha ha.

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Originally Posted by Stork

i don't particularly understand how the latter part of this follows from the first part

seems just as possible it is v/v than v/w

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Me neither

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Originally Posted by atheotes

Cuth is coming off worser in the discussion with Stork. And I actually started from a position of Stork being scummy.

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Cuth comes off looking townier than before IMO.

John: but nobody's discussing Winston, your target. Nothing worth saying about him?

Battery level 77% :D
Time to go shooting.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

jesus,

well how about getting active

you have NO opinions at all...

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I echo what john said a few posts ago. Sometimes I just have nothing to say, okay? It's early, it's hard for me to come up with anything.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

that's such a #*%&*# thing to do to a game and the person that created it. YOu signed up. ****ing play

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Why don't YOU quit having an attitude like this towards a bunch of the other players. I AM watching the thread, and I AM playing, even if I'm not saying as much as you'd like.

Okay, damn timezones. Not much was being posted, I went to sleep, wake up to having to catch up ten pages.

Well, I've caught up now. Monty's looking a little bit better than they were earlier, mostly because they haven't shown any stress about the early votes on them. Still willing to vote Cuth. Newyn's, ehh, probably not scum but I wouldn't bet my life on that yet, based on what I know of him.

Scum vibes on Visor and BSmith based on the quick reread. I don't have much concrete, since I don't have time to iso those now. I'll probably not be very active until some time after day end, unfortunately, but I'll try to use my phone to keep an eye on things regardless.

Unvote: Mothmorency
Vote: Visor

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Originally Posted by novice

I really don't see how.

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When staking out connections, commenting on the game course, and leaving a paper trail of interactions does not constitute commitment vis-a-vis plain read lists, then you must participate in some very vacuous games.

Reads are just padding to the real meat of the game. That's my position. Now shoo.