Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Also I take personal offense at it being called "not a good case" when I literally caught a wolf everyone was going to handwave as town but that's neither here nor there.

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Tbh, I think it's a rather one-sided read focused on few select posts. What was your goal there? To start a discussion?

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Tbh, I think it's a rather one-sided read focused on few select posts. What was your goal there? To start a discussion?

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To point out how Arctic had been pushing several bad faith takes and when called out would backpedal on them?

Do explain how it was "one-sided". If you're asking why there was no "Oh but this part could mean they were town" then like idk go read any of my other cases. If I case someone as x unless I have doubt I don't usually bring that up.

Also like when you case someone it's not your job to devils advocate your own work.

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Originally Posted by pzelda

For some reason I asked Ladd instead of @waza who is present. What's your opinion on Arctic/Ender pairing?

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Hmmm I think you having the thought is towny haha but that’s probs not helpful input to anyone

I’m on phone atm and occupied so I’ll have to look at it later and let you know, ender wasn’t my first tinfoil guess if things go south but yeah I was trying to keep the tinfoils contained for now in order to not poison the well as Benny would say

in no world is ender w/w with arctic.

0.

zilch.

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Originally Posted by pzelda

I feel a little bit lazy, but I don't think there's a reason to revisit most of my reads.

Benneh/waza/stett/Dya/Lissa/Taffy - town

Visor - very likely town. I think he might be someone to talk about some more, but if Arctic flips red, he's basically cleared. That early push from Arctic wasn't bussing IMHO. And the track is real in that case.
Ladd - it just feels like the guy's town
Annika - multiple players have her locked town. I don't quite see the reason, but I'm comfortable rolling with the consensus.
Maple - I'm locking him villa if Arctic flips red.

Ender - Ok, I think town, but I also think I should keep an eye on him. I wouldn't clear him for pushing Arctic and I would check how Arctic pushed back.

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ok like

I'm not exactly calling you out for having everyone town per se but you're saying there's no reason to revisit most of your reads and you're calling everyone except the outed wolf town. That is not the thing you should be thinking when you look at this list, or you shouldn't be saying you still think Ender is town (I know you talked more about them after this but). I know you're like I should keep an eye on him but this isn't written like you actually see there as being a third wolf to find?

I have written a LOT OF LISTS sort of like that one over the years but all of them are like

they understand what they're saying in a way this doesn't yknow, the perspective going on here is jank. they acknowledge on some level or at least don't actively contradict to this level that the chance of SOMEONE on them being a wolf is (in this case 100% from a village pov)

I'm fairly sure you're just town anyway but the like mindset going on here kinda wigs me out.

Also ender's not a wolf with arctic lol. No.

Benneh's reply yesterday made me realise that bc I jumped to my mentions yesterday I had actually missed a bunch of posts so I will need to reread the day.

I"m not sticking around right now bc I have to go shopping but I've got nothing on this afternoon.

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

dumb read alert but I feel like taffy saying specifically that i was annoyed at sod with how interactions were going is interesting and possibly towny language for what i was doing

i think any number of wolves would choose to use less derisive language and instead call me aggressive or agenda'd but annoyed feels like it comes from towny moundset? they felt like my prodding was from a place of annoyance at what waza was doing but if taffy were wolf and knows the alignments of me and a few others and coming up with a fake read, would they choose 'annoyed'?

like lissa just espoused, the ladd and visor reads gave me some pause because i was also concerned i was doing that dumb thing where you give someone credit for pushing you too easily and it becomes a thing but both of them kinda 'a-ha!' agreeing about the narration/narrow mindedness of it kinda rubbe dme the wrong way. and moreso visor than ladd since ladd originated it.

i still think visor is towny for reasons related to what lissa linked a bit earlier in how he shaped his reads though so idk maybe he's right

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I still had this open from overnight reading and @nebjiamn I would never call someone aggressive unless in the sense of "the way you phrased that is aggressive please step away from thread"

I found it quite unpleasant that you and Lissa referred to my early scumleans as "aggression" bc that's really not my intention and it is a game about pointing at each other and calling them scum for mostly reasons they're not going to agree with.

Taffy (I lost count)

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

I LITERALLY HAD TO STOP EATING DINNER CAUSE I REMEMBERED THIS????









IS THIS NOT OUTING? HE HAD NO IDEA OF THE IMPLCATIONS OF SUNBAE'S ROLE AND HOW IT WORKS BUT NOW HES CLAIMING THE EVEN NIGHT COUNTERPATR????????

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lol
this happened because i barely paid attention to what my own role (because it was even-night and i couldn't do anything for the first cycle) and thought it was a bus-driver, not a redirector, so when i saw sunbae's role i assumed he was the same thing which is why i was confused about how wolves could have not killed him

then i read closely and realized both of our roles were just redirectors

the phrasing makes it pretty clear, i am aware, i just glazed over the words. this is understandably hard to believe. but if you guys are going to kill me over an incorrect slip i at least don't want to be blamed and flamed for it because it was an honest mistake

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Originally Posted by didistetter

lol

ngl if i saved a maf to kill a maf that's based as f

time to bark for us arcy :3

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ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF BARK BARK BARK BARK RUGF RUFF RUG HGGGGRRRRRR RRRRRR GRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRR HISS GROWL BITE BITE SNARL BORK BORK BORK BORK GRRRR ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF

Oh just this

I individually townread all of Stett/Annika/Maple but logically there should be one wolf in those three

bc it's a lot more likely that I'm wrong on Maple than that both Stett and Annika are
and if I'm correct on Maple I still don't think both of them are wrong so one must be a wolf

I haven't found any of the arguments against Maple compelling but I might be confbiased
so I went back and reread Sunbae's reads wall and from that I'd vote Annika over Stett

Taffy (count+1)

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Originally Posted by Lissa

drinking a nice fruity drink and thumbing through arctic's posts

I think him being a wolf looks like, really really good for visor lol

his push on him was really uncharitable and flat out misinterpretive in a way I don't think w/w pushes look very often

I don't really think he's a wolf with maple but it's not AS strong

he's not a wolf with taffy but I don't really think taffy was ever a wolf anyway at this point. frankly his posting kinda gives me the sense that he had some kind of mechanical reason to think taffy was a neutral after her claim, or at least otherwise thought so for some reason

trying to claim the sunbae counterpart when he obviously had NO IDEA what the role even did is crazy, I guess he needed a reason to not have taffy ignite him, and he didn't think something else would fit in the setup? should've isoed himself first wowee

reading his most recent posts it feels obvious he felt backed into a corner and like he had no other option but to claim and was trying desperately to leverage it into living

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my reason for thinking taffy was lying is because i heard nothing about anticlaim both when i got my role and afterwards

i'd appreciate if the entire lobby didn't spend the rest of the phase preflipping me as mafia even if we have unanimously decided i am going to die for this

which is.. honestly a pretty big waste. you are killing one of the few PR claims which is actually confirmable lol. i'd even accept being ignited at this point because then i can at least use my action on visor so that he can track someone without dying

i don't understand the arguments for why my role wouldn't exist either. but a lot of people are saying poison rn and it's not only wolves. so y'all are going to have to look at that for yourselves

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Originally Posted by Arctic

lol is that why everyone was hard townreading me for eod? cuz they think im a PR?

well I would have claimed if I was, I'm not that stupid

so if that's the only reason you are townreading me then we should probably calibrate for that now rather than 3 days later when I'm still alive when you guys would find out i am in fact not a PR and decide to turbo blitz me

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why did u say this arccy

lol i've never actually been on the receiving end of one of those "you get mech outted despite being town" situations so i suppose this was going to happen at some point

but i saw waza arguing to kill himself and ignite me just because he thinks he looks bad if i am wolf, which is obviously not something i can agree with

if you want to ignite me then we should not be voting out someone just because they have more equity in a wolf!me world because i'm not mafia. that is just going to kill two villagers, most probably

waza in particular is almost certainly town because wolves know my claim is real here and they don't want to let me live to night to fuck up with their actions, but he suggested to kill someone else to the vote (himself) and let me live at night lol. never kill him please

Oh, Arctic

Listen I know I've ignored your posts yesterday but I did so bc your reaction to my claim sounded so extremely wolfy and I just didn't want to be the one to go "we should solve around Arctic bc I bombed him" and "he might be PR" and then in the next breath call everything you say wolfy

But you've got to realise that asking me "if you get NKed will I die with you" is what wolves want to know, as town you shouldn't want me to make it public whether wolves can get a two-fer maybe a hattrick later on if you do protect me tonight

It's also not the best play if you are a protective to announce your target bc wolves just go elsewhere, and if your role works like Sunbae's does the a) you'd die anyway so why care if I ignite or not, and b) there is a very high chance Sunbae died protecting you so you'd not be bombed anyway which means you shouldn't be worried about dying at all

Talk to me about Maple/Annika/Stett please


Taffy (count+2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiL9ItjmHRw

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 975

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
6	Arctic	EnderWiggin (21), Lissa (25), didistetter (35), nebjiamn (44), pzelda (20), waza (33)
1	ladd	Visor (14)
6	Not Voting	Arctic (27), Maple (23), Totally not Taffy (9), annika (16), dyachei (8), ladd (21)

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Originally Posted by didistetter

why did u say this arccy

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Originally Posted by didistetter

why did u say this arccy

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i didn't want to be outted as a PR because my action gets a lot more utility if i breadcrumb a target at eod and end up saving them, which can give us a clear if people realize who i targeted, because without a PR claim i was obviously not gonna be nightkilled

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Oh, Arctic

Listen I know I've ignored your posts yesterday but I did so bc your reaction to my claim sounded so extremely wolfy and I just didn't want to be the one to go "we should solve around Arctic bc I bombed him" and "he might be PR" and then in the next breath call everything you say wolfy

But you've got to realise that asking me "if you get NKed will I die with you" is what wolves want to know, as town you shouldn't want me to make it public whether wolves can get a two-fer maybe a hattrick later on if you do protect me tonight

It's also not the best play if you are a protective to announce your target bc wolves just go elsewhere, and if your role works like Sunbae's does the a) you'd die anyway so why care if I ignite or not, and b) there is a very high chance Sunbae died protecting you so you'd not be bombed anyway which means you shouldn't be worried about dying at all

Talk to me about Maple/Annika/Stett please


Taffy (count+2)

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well maybe but it's also what i want to know because i don't know that you're town. you can easily get away with claiming to ignite me while wolves dodge my ability so 2 villagers end up dying. if you can only use it when you're dead then i have to worry about that less. this is more of a precautionary thing even though i understand from your point of view it's not optimal if you're town, but i still don't really trust you

annika and stett are still in my never kill tier this game not just because of the day 1 votes but for general play

i should probably have thoughts on maple's claim but i don't. knowing him it's probably fake and visor is just going along with it (regardless of either of their alignments) because i refuse to believe this guy just never rands VT ever and has an incessant need to fakeclaim every game. i'd still probably vote him out today but the game has become a lot more difficult to parse now that i am being treated as outted

Vote: Unvote

gn.

Arctic if ur town can you look at pzelda's reactions to ender's case/your claim etc.

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Originally Posted by ladd

Everything lissa and benneh have said sounds good to me

Even if artic comes in and tries to explain, i honestly dont think having an even redirector makes sense. Why would u need to split up a redirector?

Ender/visor/benneh/lissa/annika/stett/zelda/waza all seem like villagers . Maple/taffy should be real.


So i guess that leaves dya as last wolf and sunbae is just that sick and was n1ed

There is prolly spew to be found in eod wrt artic when he got wagoned but i dunno if i care to read back today given it d probabky just clear people who are already clear

Visor should track me/dya imo.

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hmm

i feel like this push on me comes across as far more pushable than benneh's once i flip, and i'm not sure a wolf knowing full well that my role does exist and is in this setup would try to use that as an argument cuz it's not gonna look good when i flip

i would guess that, as convincing as his acting is, benneh is probably a wolf for all this. i think he was prompted to look at me again because he thought i was vanilla fps'ing based on what i claimed and asked him earlier and he's converted that into a free ML now that he can't just say to ignite me since my claim made me self-resolving. and now he specifically doesn't want to let me act at night either, which is another thing i take problem with because wolves are not going to want to let me act tonight

i think lissa deciding to make 10 posts about me being outted mafia and preflipping based off that comes across as performative. i think she's intentionally trying to come across as lacking TMI on me. good wolves see situations like this and decide to preflip the villager wolf and make a bunch of nonsense solving so they can look like they didn't have TMI after the flip. but i think a villager here would still be uncertain, or at least uncertain enough to the point of not deciding to treat me as outted mafia or make their entire solve based on my posts before even getting my flip

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Benneh's reply yesterday made me realise that bc I jumped to my mentions yesterday I had actually missed a bunch of posts so I will need to reread the day.

I"m not sticking around right now bc I have to go shopping but I've got nothing on this afternoon.



I still had this open from overnight reading and @nebjiamn I would never call someone aggressive unless in the sense of "the way you phrased that is aggressive please step away from thread"

I found it quite unpleasant that you and Lissa referred to my early scumleans as "aggression" bc that's really not my intention and it is a game about pointing at each other and calling them scum for mostly reasons they're not going to agree with.

Taffy (I lost count)

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think you read something into that that wasn't there. wasn't intended in the way it sounds like you took it

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Originally Posted by Arctic

lol
this happened because i barely paid attention to what my own role (because it was even-night and i couldn't do anything for the first cycle) and thought it was a bus-driver, not a redirector, so when i saw sunbae's role i assumed he was the same thing which is why i was confused about how wolves could have not killed him

then i read closely and realized both of our roles were just redirectors

the phrasing makes it pretty clear, i am aware, i just glazed over the words. this is understandably hard to believe. but if you guys are going to kill me over an incorrect slip i at least don't want to be blamed and flamed for it because it was an honest mistake

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yeah sorry I just don't believe you lol. sure it's an unconventional type of redirector, but it being a bus driver would make even less sense and it's not like it's some behemoth of a mash role

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Originally Posted by Lissa

think you read something into that that wasn't there. wasn't intended in the way it sounds like you took it



yeah sorry I just don't believe you lol. sure it's an unconventional type of redirector, but it being a bus driver would make even less sense and it's not like it's some behemoth of a mash role

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then i'd humbly request you stop solving based on me being a wolf and instead solve on me being a villager or solve independently from my alignment because you are putting poison into the thread

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Originally Posted by Lissa

ok like

I'm not exactly calling you out for having everyone town per se but you're saying there's no reason to revisit most of your reads and you're calling everyone except the outed wolf town. That is not the thing you should be thinking when you look at this list, or you shouldn't be saying you still think Ender is town (I know you talked more about them after this but). I know you're like I should keep an eye on him but this isn't written like you actually see there as being a third wolf to find?

I have written a LOT OF LISTS sort of like that one over the years but all of them are like

they understand what they're saying in a way this doesn't yknow, the perspective going on here is jank. they acknowledge on some level or at least don't actively contradict to this level that the chance of SOMEONE on them being a wolf is (in this case 100% from a village pov)

I'm fairly sure you're just town anyway but the like mindset going on here kinda wigs me out.

Also ender's not a wolf with arctic lol. No.

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hmm on second thought maybe this person does not actually have TMI on my alignment. seems more genuine than the previous solving

since you asked @didistetter i thought it was a little weird how pzelda never commented on my claim specifically and just kinda absorbed the sentiment that i was outted mafia. so i'm kinda sketched there. i'm not sure what to make of his posts preflipping me. if i was actually mafia and reading this from a third party perspective, i'd think that him preflipping ender with me is too unhinged to come from a wolf, but knowing i'm actually town i'm not sure if that makes the point moot. it's probably still villagery either way, but meh

I am gonna be real arctic i have no problems believing your stuff about buss driver, stuff like that happens

I just find it super weird for this setup to have 2 redirectors. The point of using odd/even modifiers is to somewhat limit the variance of having all the power to 1 person but like redirector (lightning rod would br more accurate) isnt a strong enough role to do this and use up 2 pr villa slot on this seems improbable to me

I guess i could be fine with lunching someoneone else, put u on visor have taffy ignite and see what happens. Even if i feel i may be at danger of being lunched in this scenario lmao

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Originally Posted by ladd

I am gonna be real arctic i have no problems believing your stuff about buss driver, stuff like that happens

I just find it super weird for this setup to have 2 redirectors. The point of using odd/even modifiers is to somewhat limit the variance of having all the power to 1 person but like redirector (lightning rod would br more accurate) isnt a strong enough role to do this and use up 2 pr villa slot on this seems improbable to me

I guess i could be fine with lunching someoneone else, put u on visor have taffy ignite and see what happens. Even if i feel i may be at danger of being lunched in this scenario lmao

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I can understand this. But to compensate for having 1 role basically split into two, it would make sense if we had 4 town PRs instead of just 3 and everyone who claimed so far is real. Which would really just make me want to kill benneh. First for him arguing to ignite me before I had claimed PR (which would use up one of our MLs) and now him arguing to not let me live to the night when I can interfere with wolf actions

Why are you so sure he's town?

I am pretty sure you are town and may get mischopped right after me today which is something I want to avoid. who else would you be fine with killing today

vote: dya

Never kill:

didistetter
annika
waza
dyachei

Town:

ladd
pzelda

Everyone else:

Lissa
Visor
Ender
Taffy

Maple/Benneh is exactly 1 wolf and benneh isn't wolf with Taffy. But I'm kinda leveling myself into thinking she's just town or 3p so I'm not sure I care anyway

I recognize that if you kill me then I need to give 1 more villager here. Which I'd probably give as Lissa but I'm unsure

I don't think the reason for clearing dya is being overstated at all. I have noticed similar posts in previous games and I was right to clear them for it so I'm not interested in going there

Vote: nebjiamn

I change my mind, I would take Visor as the villager after you flip me and not Lissa. She would probably by my guess as the second if benneh is a wolf

People are spreading the sentiment of "well what's Manti's plan as wolf by playing eod/the rest of the phase the way he did" and to that I propose that the wolf who is playing to win is benneh. Sure he townsided at EOD. While he was already townreading me and Taffy claimed PR. Also after trying to kill annika and stett at the start of the game. If Maple is village, then you guys are giving him far too much credit this game, which is why I struggle to take Lissa's stance seriously (that benneh and maple are 2 villagers) - Visor thinking Maple is town and pushing on benneh seems like a much more realistic worldview to me than Lissa's

Visor's read on me today is townie. I don't know why he hasn't commented on any of the claim shenanigans, but I feel like a wolf would feel somewhat obliged to. And he is doubly cleared if benneh ends up being a wolf

Ladd is the person that people will want to default to after you flip me, probably. But I think he has been townie today, the tinfoil of me and taffy being w/w was townie, the intrigue on why people were townreading dya despite having them as lock town for his own reasoning seems villagery, and I think his stance that "your role wouldn't exist in this setup" is one that makes him look avoidably bad tomorrow compared to the stance that Lissa are benneh are taking because they can very easily just say that I messed up my claim + the sunbae thing and blame me for it. But ladd is giving me a much more fair shake here when it comes to how I could have made my mistake

This is a very biased solve, I am aware. I don't like to solve around my slot because my accuracy decreases heavily when I become part of the narrative. But I do believe that I have the best perspective on the game right now and you should not dismiss everything I am saying tomorrow

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Originally Posted by Lissa

ok like

I'm not exactly calling you out for having everyone town per se but you're saying there's no reason to revisit most of your reads and you're calling everyone except the outed wolf town. That is not the thing you should be thinking when you look at this list, or you shouldn't be saying you still think Ender is town (I know you talked more about them after this but). I know you're like I should keep an eye on him but this isn't written like you actually see there as being a third wolf to find?

I have written a LOT OF LISTS sort of like that one over the years but all of them are like

they understand what they're saying in a way this doesn't yknow, the perspective going on here is jank. they acknowledge on some level or at least don't actively contradict to this level that the chance of SOMEONE on them being a wolf is (in this case 100% from a village pov)

I'm fairly sure you're just town anyway but the like mindset going on here kinda wigs me out.

Also ender's not a wolf with arctic lol. No.

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I need to put more work in and revisit some of my reads, but I haven't got time or energy for that this morning. I guess I might get better if I manage to concentrate on the game more this evening.

And ok, guys. I'm dropping my Ender push.

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Originally Posted by Arctic

my reason for thinking taffy was lying is because i heard nothing about anticlaim both when i got my role and afterwards

i'd appreciate if the entire lobby didn't spend the rest of the phase preflipping me as mafia even if we have unanimously decided i am going to die for this

which is.. honestly a pretty big waste. you are killing one of the few PR claims which is actually confirmable lol. i'd even accept being ignited at this point because then i can at least use my action on visor so that he can track someone without dying

i don't understand the arguments for why my role wouldn't exist either. but a lot of people are saying poison rn and it's not only wolves. so y'all are going to have to look at that for yourselves

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I was thinking about this and having two half lightning rods and a bomber makes more sense than one half redirector, one bomber and an inventor with a possibility to clear more players. Or does it not?

sorry arctic, i can believe you could mess up the claim but the combination of you firmly playing like not-a-PR yesterday and trying to push-out-a-PR instead and also your solve just kind of sucking (fmpov) makes me want to just unabashedly kill you. i'm obviously town -- and even though i'm pushing you, i legitimately think you would be able to find me here and not just brush things off as 'acting.' its as if you have condensed all of my posting, all of which is supremely villagery (as evidenced by the abundance of players correctly townclearing me), and distilled it into the most uncharitable takes so you can justify pushing me.

i also think lissa's posting last night, while drunk, reads incredibly pure and uninformed, so beyond just having a bad read on me, i think your suggestion that lissa is the yin to my yang is also likely wrong and I just think you'd be able to find at least one of us, but you've instead sunk your teeth into ladd as your sure town from all of this. c'est la vie. imo, ladd seems like one of hte people from your position you should be most sus of tbh

your responses to my suggesting we discuss the optimality of using town-KP on a non-claimed PR in yourself, because you were sorta in my townreads at SOD, just reads like you thought you had a gotcha moment on me when the reality is i had you in the tier of townleans that i did not feel super comfortable about and this was especially true as my starting POE for the day whittled down (sunbae died, my waza epiphany, and taffy re-asserting their claim). i think it is more likely you were amazed you had been targetted with a douse and the realities of you just shrug dying when you were in a pretty monstrous spot otherwise left you spiraling and needing to come up with something you hadn't thought through.

if you're town PR, you saw me write that and got all big in your britches because you're PR who firmly asserted they were always VT and would never play eod1 the way you did as VT and then comically misunderstood your role on day 2 when the realities came crashing down. i just don't believe this is likely even if i think it is possible, especially when i pair it with how you've solved the game from your distinct point of view. i wouldn't and won't flame you if you are town but i would probably ask you in future games to not get so caught up in thinking incorrect reads against you are a bigger sin BECAUSE you're a PR. that's how you read to me right now fwiw, so I kinda just hope you're wolf who's flailing and omgussing instead.

i will give you this: in the world you are town, i think your next most likely hit from your current solve is maple, who you've placed me in a difference check with. this is where possible redemption is for you if town, but i am not killing maple here today anymore because atp we are just testing a 50/50 and we at least have decent confirmation of their role being real in comparison to yours, even if its existence doesn't necessarily confirm its alignment.

if others feel strongly about your reaction my suggestion would be to kill dya instead because I think they have the most equity as a partner for you in addition to just sort of similarly slipping into a poe in the worlds you are town along with the other PR claims are town and then do the spiel ladd is talking about re: mech

also sunbae wanted yall dead and then he died n1 and i think you tmi'd that he actually was the wolf kill and not a redirect/bg/whatevs

gg sunbae goat

my brain is too smol for this game
@Arctic I still don’t think it’s Ben because his reaction to thinking he found a slip was like ridiculously villagery excitement imo. also you really misread your own role? im gonna cry agshrhfhhf

I can't help myself I like Arctic based on their recent posts. If they really are mafia, this is a bold offensive (tbh @Arctic I used phrases such as "if they flip wolf" in my post claim comments). Before the claim my feeling was that
Also, why would Arctic claim there as a wolf? It would be risky as there could be a cc. The only option would be they were a wolf redirector and I can't see why would anyone put that role in.
Ofc that leads to me thinking about Benneh. Mostly, because I think he should be one of these players pointing out that slips don't exist. At least I believe so.
I'm not jumping to conclusions just ruminating my options for the rest of D2.

I don't care about the claim stuff

Your reason is perfectly plausible

Taffy will probably want to kill you tonight anyway to prove she is real

I just don't see a point in wasting words on it

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

also sunbae wanted yall dead and then he died n1 and i think you tmi'd that he actually was the wolf kill and not a redirect/bg/whatevs

gg sunbae goat

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Sunbaes wanted dya dead

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Originally Posted by annika

my brain is too smol for this game
@Arctic I still don’t think it’s Ben because his reaction to thinking he found a slip was like ridiculously villagery excitement imo. also you really misread your own role? im gonna cry agshrhfhhf

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I feel the same way. Just trying on different tin foil hats rn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efqSzfXaA5k

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 996

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
5	Arctic	EnderWiggin (21), Lissa (26), nebjiamn (46), pzelda (24), waza (33)
1	dyachei	Visor (17)
1	nebjiamn	Arctic (35)
6	Not Voting	Maple (23), Totally not Taffy (9), annika (17), didistetter (36), dyachei (8), ladd (22)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Sunbaes wanted dya dead

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dya was part of the 'yall' there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

I LITERALLY HAD TO STOP EATING DINNER CAUSE I REMEMBERED THIS????

IS THIS NOT OUTING? HE HAD NO IDEA OF THE IMPLCATIONS OF SUNBAE'S ROLE AND HOW IT WORKS BUT NOW HES CLAIMING THE EVEN NIGHT COUNTERPATR????????

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if this is a wolf im snowed af

he literally stopped eating dinner bc he had an epiphany like omg it’s sooo townie

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Originally Posted by annika

if this is a wolf im snowed af

he literally stopped eating dinner bc he had an epiphany like omg it’s sooo townie

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Ew david

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Originally Posted by waza

Oh just remembered if Arctic does flip red then visors track actually becomes useful lol

Assuming there’s no ninja in the setup, in which case I’d like the track to be used on me if Arctic is red, my eod d1 really is policy worthy snd even if I can manage to outlive dya or ladd who are probs the only two other people that may get voted before me I don’t really think dya is a wolf and on top of the stuff I already said about ladd I don’t think the way him and Arctic spoke to each other today felt w/w. I’m not ride or die with any of these reads because tbh it’s hard to think who else could be a wolf aside for maple but yeah I really would appreciate if the tracker was used on me tonight (as long as ur not paranoid im a ninja or something )

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yeah, this is a good argument for why we should vote Arctic today (if we think he's w, which. I think I do atp because idk if I've ever seen Arctic hold a claim for that long at EoD)

the track can actually get a clear so long as there's no roleblocker...although I'm kind of scared there's a roleblocker lmao because even if Arctic is fake, an inventor/bodyguard/bomber makes me think wolves have some kind of counterplay besides just the bomb defuser

but if they roleblock Visor then Manti can get another invention out OR Taffy can get another bomb off, so I think it works out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

I was thinking about this and having two half lightning rods and a bomber makes more sense than one half redirector, one bomber and an inventor with a possibility to clear more players. Or does it not?

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I mean yeah

Like redirecting to self is a pretty weak role by itself, if you're limiting the parity to every other night then it makes sense that there is a counterpart with the other parity

Obviously I am saynig this while knowing full well it's true but only 3 PRs (2 if taffy is fake) seems unrealistic when one of them is as weak as an odd night redirectors

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

waza, i thikn i'm starting to see a pattern with you and I think you value people calling townreads a way of townsiding. i won't say you value it too highly, its more just me realizing what you value

but IMHO, those kinds of takes are silly for a wolf because ladd has to have townreads on people?

lets go through who you mentioned:

1) he townread me. he gets 0 credit for this, he would even tell you, he has never pushed me incorrectly or failed to clear me correctly. i have fooled him a few times, but the only times he's ever really been sus of me were when I was wolfing. i legitimately entered this game knowing near 100% certainty ladd would townread me regardless of his own alignment. in fact, i know he knows this meta so well, I was actually pre-emptively wondering if this would be the game he cashes in on the meta to try to sus me a bit (if he's wolf) and that's the only reason i wouldnt say is was absolutely 100% certain instead of near 100%

also i was never vulnerable day 1 lol.

tl;dr ladd sorta has to TR me until the one day he cashes in on the meta and we'll have to see if i'm keen on that or not, i was never in danger, he shouldn't really get towncred for 'townsiding' by tring me

re: sunbae -- i think you have a valid point, sunbae def was vulnerable

re: you (waza) -- i don't really know how vulnerable you were? you had lots of defenders besides ladd, similar to the way i did. neither you or i was ever a serious wagon during the day.

if i add these 3 reads up i don't think he was 'townsiding to his own detriment' in the worlds he is a wolf? he was pushing taffy all game while this happened?

i just sorta disagree with your assessment that because ladd is on a 'timer' that he wouldn't then push for taffy to die because then it puts the spotlight on him. that is literally his MO quite often BECAUSE he's on a timer.

i don't really think you can say he's played against his wincon if he's wolf. i think killing taffy d1 and getting 2 PR claims out of day 1 would have been excellent for w!ladd but we got lucky a wolf died d1 instead.

i still feel like a lot of his reads were non-collaborative in ways that feel mor elike his wolf self than not. i'm not deadset on him being wolf--i do think if he's town he's played a pretty good game for identifying lots of towns correctly, but i don't think its absurd to have him in the middle of the POE given the current game state and where his wolf reads landed

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yeah i get that, thats why in the fourth paragraph i said his trs on me and u are nai and he woulda done it regardless of alignment

it was mostly his sunbae tr, ladd tends to go for the path of least resistance as wolf and yeah he doesnt really townside because it doesnt really prolong his stay much. thinking back to a mash for example where he accidentally bussed and then got pushed d2 for being alive anyways, it sucks but yeah people are just gonna hound him if hes alive for too long, or not as correct as they want him to be etc. etc. so yeah i dont really see him stick himself out on a limb to defend villas that are poe'd when he can just let the push on sunbae happen. again i need to fact check if this played out how i remembered but yeah

its funny cos the first part of ur post reminded me of what i was speaking to about arctic here

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Originally Posted by waza

I use what’s given to me lol

Funnily enough someone made this exact post you did not long ago except replace how people are reading me with meta instead, and then another game replace that but with w/w and pairing interactions. D1s are scarce for info so I work with what I got, most people didn’t post much so what I’m left to use is how people are handling me and vibe reads mixed with meta

The longer the game goes the more diverse my reads get usually

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but yeah ben i can see why u think that lol, ig townreads matter to me in the specific context of ladd and this game but yeah lol this post was pretty useless all in all and i hope nobody read this hoping for some insight on someones alignment lol or mine for that matter. i forgot to reply to this earlier but it reminded me of arctics post lol so i went back to it

just so this isnt a completely useless post errr

vote:maple

havent read arctics walls ill read it when i come back, just voting maple cos i forgot about him and wouldnt mind some disscussion there again

i suppose if im thinking about something i tend to hyperfocus on it or bring it up alot

idk lol i always wondered/was confused why people would try to find patterns in my solving but then the claimed pattern would be something different every time someone noticed a pattern lol. but its starting to make sense to me now i think

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

sorry arctic, i can believe you could mess up the claim but the combination of you firmly playing like not-a-PR yesterday and trying to push-out-a-PR instead and also your solve just kind of sucking (fmpov) makes me want to just unabashedly kill you. i'm obviously town -- and even though i'm pushing you, i legitimately think you would be able to find me here and not just brush things off as 'acting.' its as if you have condensed all of my posting, all of which is supremely villagery (as evidenced by the abundance of players correctly townclearing me), and distilled it into the most uncharitable takes so you can justify pushing me.

i also think lissa's posting last night, while drunk, reads incredibly pure and uninformed, so beyond just having a bad read on me, i think your suggestion that lissa is the yin to my yang is also likely wrong and I just think you'd be able to find at least one of us, but you've instead sunk your teeth into ladd as your sure town from all of this. c'est la vie. imo, ladd seems like one of hte people from your position you should be most sus of tbh

your responses to my suggesting we discuss the optimality of using town-KP on a non-claimed PR in yourself, because you were sorta in my townreads at SOD, just reads like you thought you had a gotcha moment on me when the reality is i had you in the tier of townleans that i did not feel super comfortable about and this was especially true as my starting POE for the day whittled down (sunbae died, my waza epiphany, and taffy re-asserting their claim). i think it is more likely you were amazed you had been targetted with a douse and the realities of you just shrug dying when you were in a pretty monstrous spot otherwise left you spiraling and needing to come up with something you hadn't thought through.

if you're town PR, you saw me write that and got all big in your britches because you're PR who firmly asserted they were always VT and would never play eod1 the way you did as VT and then comically misunderstood your role on day 2 when the realities came crashing down. i just don't believe this is likely even if i think it is possible, especially when i pair it with how you've solved the game from your distinct point of view. i wouldn't and won't flame you if you are town but i would probably ask you in future games to not get so caught up in thinking incorrect reads against you are a bigger sin BECAUSE you're a PR. that's how you read to me right now fwiw, so I kinda just hope you're wolf who's flailing and omgussing instead.

i will give you this: in the world you are town, i think your next most likely hit from your current solve is maple, who you've placed me in a difference check with. this is where possible redemption is for you if town, but i am not killing maple here today anymore because atp we are just testing a 50/50 and we at least have decent confirmation of their role being real in comparison to yours, even if its existence doesn't necessarily confirm its alignment.

if others feel strongly about your reaction my suggestion would be to kill dya instead because I think they have the most equity as a partner for you in addition to just sort of similarly slipping into a poe in the worlds you are town along with the other PR claims are town and then do the spiel ladd is talking about re: mech

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How is Lissa's posting last night uninformed unless you think I'm town, which you clearly don't? You will spin this as another "fake gotcha" probably but I legitimately don't think you can feel Lissa's posts are uninformed unless you know that I'm town which isn't a view that you appear to be repping

I read all of her posts today when I made the post in which I voted you. Before you made your post about my claim being fake, Lissa had done basically no wolfhunting and very little that can be construed as solving in general today. I think this is a very strong lobby in which people who have randed wolf are capable of making decent sounding posts, so I am more interested in who is pushing the game where. I am considering Lissa's mindset and direction and I do not see someone who is interested in advancing the town wincondition. In isolation I wouldn't necessarily call the lack of wolf hunting condemning in the context of this day since everyone is playing sluggish and solving around the PRs instead of any real substance based solving. But most people are happy with the Maple elim (pre-claim) so this is somewhat more understandable for those who are. The issue is that Maple is the default elimination today (pre-claim) and Lissa was townreading her but hasn't really done anything to meaningfully push any alternative - I don't really count her push on Ladd given it felt more like shrug/shade, and even if I do, outside of that it was not really obvious who she thinks can be a wolf, which gives me the impression she is not looking to find them.

I do not think it is a coincidence that her most significant solving efforts in this game were precipitated by your push on me. It seems intentional, either to poison the thread or to appear as though she does not have TMI

I do not think wolves are playing today (or well, this cycle) to lose another wolf. Ladd argued that I should not be ignited when I was still unclaimed. This is narrowing the POE on himself for no reason. It is very easy to do as you and some others did which is to just argue that oh well it's town kp, we should use it. And Ladd does not think that my mistake is actually outting and is willing to consider another vote today, even if it gets himself killed. On top of that he has just been generally villagery on posting today which I have already outlined. Why should I be the most suspicious of him?

I should clarify that I do not think me being a PR makes the wolfreads against me worse. I would be as suspicious of you either way for advocating to ignite me even if I was vanilla - it still takes the ML way and such. It is true that the second point of now advocating to not ignite me wouldn't really matter. But that is not clouded by my own judgement, it is an objective fact that if my role is real wolves will not want me to be able to use it tonight. That doesn't mean you have to be a wolf, but that your current stance is aligning with the wolf agenda at this moment in time.

I am not interested in going dya for the reasons I have already outlined. I would invite you to reconsider your townread on Lissa if you are town

So, let's get back to it.
First, let's talk about claims a little bit further. Taffy's almost always real. I think they got rather towny before eod too and their claim just makes sense. Now, would it make sense for them to soft if they were mafia? Mayhaps. Would a setting with two redirectors and an inventor be balanced with a mafia bomber? It sounds quite balanced to me, but mafia wouldn't need a defuser. So, they're town 9 times out of ten with a slight possibility of being a lost wolf or a 3p.
Now let's talk about the inventor. I think I would like to know details on what can the role invent outside of 1x track. Town inventor is possibly swingy tbh. Mafia inventor possibly too. It can be quite powerful if used well as it has a chance to clear others. So far it works as an investigative role. The setup with two half redirectors and a bomber against a diffuser and a inventor sounds pro-towm tbh.
Now, I think the worst thing about Arctic's claim isn't a balancing issue. But the way they hinted at being vanilla and that they actually claimed it. And if the claim is real an even night redirector would make some sense as a mafia role. For example redirecting the track or the inventor's gift. So, it's the weakest claim even without that slip.
Like Arctic is the only claim I'm willing to vote.
When I'm back I will check their actual posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

yeah, this is a good argument for why we should vote Arctic today (if we think he's w, which. I think I do atp because idk if I've ever seen Arctic hold a claim for that long at EoD)

the track can actually get a clear so long as there's no roleblocker...although I'm kind of scared there's a roleblocker lmao because even if Arctic is fake, an inventor/bodyguard/bomber makes me think wolves have some kind of counterplay besides just the bomb defuser

but if they roleblock Visor then Manti can get another invention out OR Taffy can get another bomb off, so I think it works out?

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This is a pretty bad post.

"It's a good argument to kill Arctic today, but only if Arctic is a wolf"

Well, yes. Generally that is how mafia works. There are not many situations in which you would have a wolf and not want to kill them. You aren't really saying anything useful here

"idk if I've ever seen Arctic hold a claim for that long at EoD"

...what? I have never played a game with you in which I've been a town power role or ever actually wagoned during the day. How do you know what I would do as a PR lol? If you are going off of turbos, I have held my claim as a PR on the counterwagon countless times. Which is why I would do it here if I have a strong sense that I won't actually die. And even if I did, my role isn't really that strong and couldn't act for another phase so it was whatever. I didn't want to claim and lose out on the opportunity to get utility before night 2. I did claim after I was doused because me being ignited despite being confirmable (and us losing a ML for it) is not optimal. What makes this post even worse is that the information you are using for this read was available as soon as I had claimed PR, and you didn't suspect me for holding the claim at EOD then. You are only bringing it now that there is a case against me based on how I handled my claim, but you are pretending that you have some other reason for voting me when all of this reads as nonsensical

If you are town I implore you to not sleepwalk into the likely outcome of today and engage with some other suspicions. But I am genuinely considering worlds where you aren't because of this post lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

If you are going off of turbos, I have held my claim as a PR on the counterwagon countless times. Which is why I would do it here if I have a strong sense that I won't actually die.

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no? not that i rememver, at least not when youre literally top wagon 1 minute before the day ends

this post is bad because youre assuming I should have you town here when you claimed vt and misread your own role and made posts like “if I die I want to be voting Taffy” insteas of Claiming your Role

which is either bad because youre a wolf or bad because youre town and just ridiculously unaware of how bad you look

not to mention you explicitly didvnt vote rask when I asked to consolidate on him or maple

your only saving grace is that you ended on 49 instead of 50, so maybe the last post was reserved to claim, but that’s only a saving grace bc im being VERY generous with you lmao

but yeah I still think youre mafia

I was writing out how I thought annika could still be a wolf with arctic because she was pushing me during eod then I realized that didn't make sense gg

Meow meow people on this page acting like alien shapeshifters

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

So, let's get back to it.
First, let's talk about claims a little bit further. Taffy's almost always real. I think they got rather towny before eod too and their claim just makes sense. Now, would it make sense for them to soft if they were mafia? Mayhaps. Would a setting with two redirectors and an inventor be balanced with a mafia bomber? It sounds quite balanced to me, but mafia wouldn't need a defuser. So, they're town 9 times out of ten with a slight possibility of being a lost wolf or a 3p.
Now let's talk about the inventor. I think I would like to know details on what can the role invent outside of 1x track. Town inventor is possibly swingy tbh. Mafia inventor possibly too. It can be quite powerful if used well as it has a chance to clear others. So far it works as an investigative role. The setup with two half redirectors and a bomber against a diffuser and a inventor sounds pro-towm tbh.
Now, I think the worst thing about Arctic's claim isn't a balancing issue. But the way they hinted at being vanilla and that they actually claimed it. And if the claim is real an even night redirector would make some sense as a mafia role. For example redirecting the track or the inventor's gift. So, it's the weakest claim even without that slip.
Like Arctic is the only claim I'm willing to vote.
When I'm back I will check their actual posts.

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ALIEN SHAPESHIFTER

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Originally Posted by Arctic

my reason for thinking taffy was lying is because i heard nothing about anticlaim both when i got my role and afterwards

i'd appreciate if the entire lobby didn't spend the rest of the phase preflipping me as mafia even if we have unanimously decided i am going to die for this

which is.. honestly a pretty big waste. you are killing one of the few PR claims which is actually confirmable lol. i'd even accept being ignited at this point because then i can at least use my action on visor so that he can track someone without dying

i don't understand the arguments for why my role wouldn't exist either. but a lot of people are saying poison rn and it's not only wolves. so y'all are going to have to look at that for yourselves

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Confirmable how?

My role is already confirmed by visor, and taff is claiming kp.

Also prob worth noting I hadn't heard about anticlaim but it seems plausible for a PR to have that info mech oracled into their brains given my very limited knowledge of gemma setups

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Originally Posted by Maple

I was writing out how I thought annika could still be a wolf with arctic because she was pushing me during eod then I realized that didn't make sense gg

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Tell me more about this, because if Arctic is indeed a wolf then Annika is 90% his buddy imo

Especially with her latest posts which are great insight in how his EoD1 is wolfy after telling me SoD2 how towny he is
She's not acting as embarrassed about her wrong Arctic read as I would expect her to

Vote: Arctic

bc it's mechanically optimal to deny an outed wolf another night action especially one who's trying this hard to get it

Taffy (10)

Oh also @Maple

If I understand things correctly (I have only read posts since my own from this morning so far, so not caught up at all) then you're the one handing out the night chats and I would love one tonight :heart:

Taffy (11)

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Tell me more about this, because if Arctic is indeed a wolf then Annika is 90% his buddy imo

Especially with her latest posts which are great insight in how his EoD1 is wolfy after telling me SoD2 how towny he is
She's not acting as embarrassed about her wrong Arctic read as I would expect her to

Vote: Arctic

bc it's mechanically optimal to deny an outed wolf another night action especially one who's trying this hard to get it

Taffy (10)

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I don’t know Arctic’s alignment yet, I’m just leaning him wolf rn. I don’t really see a reason to be embarrassed bc I dont think ive done anything wrong yet..? hehe

I defended the two PR wagons and killed a wolf, I mightve also defended another wolf D1 but I re-evaled today :D and if he’s not then uhm. well then I might have a reason to be embarrassed cus *then* I’d be wrong on him lol

:3

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

RIP Sunbae.

I still disagree that Arctic's EOD was specifically towny of em.

But there's enough people who seem to think that was clearing that it can't be just a wolf sentiment echo chamber and I have to consider strongly that I'm just five miles underneath the ground in my tunnel. So I'm gonna ignore Arctic for a bit and come back to it.

I also want to see what Taffy has to say.

I thought Maple had a terrible EOD. (This is definitely a unique viewpoint I see)

I think Benneh/Annika/Stett/Waza are all very towny from that EOD.

Need to get back to work will think more on this later.

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@EnderWiggin talk to me about Maple's EoD bc Stett tried to tell me it was bad and I don't see it

Taffy (12)

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Originally Posted by annika

no? not that i rememver, at least not when youre literally top wagon 1 minute before the day ends

this post is bad because youre assuming I should have you town here when you claimed vt and misread your own role and made posts like “if I die I want to be voting Taffy” insteas of Claiming your Role

which is either bad because youre a wolf or bad because youre town and just ridiculously unaware of how bad you look

not to mention you explicitly didvnt vote rask when I asked to consolidate on him or maple

your only saving grace is that you ended on 49 instead of 50, so maybe the last post was reserved to claim, but that’s only a saving grace bc im being VERY generous with you lmao

but yeah I still think youre mafia

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i'm not assuming you should have me as town, i am well aware of my position

i am saying that you shouldn't be wolfreading me for this reasoning specifically which sounds made up

i stayed on taffy because the anticlaim suggestion sounded explicitly made up given the information i had, rask was just rand or maybe slightly worse because of the threadstate

i did save my last post to claim if i got cfd'ed but i didn't expect to be

anyway i have stated my suspicions, it does not appear that anyone is willing to engage me with them or give me any chance of surviving so i will likely stop posting. i can make a legacy if that would be useful but i think my reads will be discredited because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" so i'm not sure how much people would care

if there's something else that would be useful then let me know, otherwise i will postcap myself so i no longer feel an obligation to stay here

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Originally Posted by Maple

I was writing out how I thought annika could still be a wolf with arctic because she was pushing me during eod then I realized that didn't make sense gg

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what is your actual opinion on my alignment

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Originally Posted by Maple

Confirmable how?

My role is already confirmed by visor, and taff is claiming kp.

Also prob worth noting I hadn't heard about anticlaim but it seems plausible for a PR to have that info mech oracled into their brains given my very limited knowledge of gemma setups

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not really confirmable i mean self-resolving

your role is confirmable but it doesn't confirm that you are town, just that it exists. i should die at night eventually with my role

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i did save my last post to claim if i got cfd'ed but i didn't expect to be

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I was re reading eod and afaict you were top wagon until :00 when rask got sniped and ender moved off you. Did you intend to claim or were u caught by surprise or wat? Feel like claiming and getting a 1-for- with taffy who u were convknced was a wolf would have been a good trafe off


Anyway ill do a re read of the game in 2-3 hours

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Originally Posted by Arctic

i'm not assuming you should have me as town, i am well aware of my position

i am saying that you shouldn't be wolfreading me for this reasoning specifically which sounds made up

i stayed on taffy because the anticlaim suggestion sounded explicitly made up given the information i had, rask was just rand or maybe slightly worse because of the threadstate

i did save my last post to claim if i got cfd'ed but i didn't expect to be

anyway i have stated my suspicions, it does not appear that anyone is willing to engage me with them or give me any chance of surviving so i will likely stop posting. i can make a legacy if that would be useful but i think my reads will be discredited because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" so i'm not sure how much people would care

if there's something else that would be useful then let me know, otherwise i will postcap myself so i no longer feel an obligation to stay here

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sup

i am interested in your thoughts

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Originally Posted by ladd

I was re reading eod and afaict you were top wagon until :00 when rask got sniped and ender moved off you. Did you intend to claim or were u caught by surprise or wat? Feel like claiming and getting a 1-for- with taffy who u were convknced was a wolf would have been a good trafe off


Anyway ill do a re read of the game in 2-3 hours

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rask overtook me at :59

deadline was :01 not :00

i would have tried to claim at :00 if i was still top wagon but i was happy risking it because my role isnt that important

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

sup

i am interested in your thoughts

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why are you sure lissa is town? i don't think they were playing like a villager concerned that town was going to sleepwalk into the maple elim which is someone they were townreading

are you still wolfreading benneh or no?

i think the dya stuff is hard to like, willingly lock someone over so i can kinda get it but i haven't really found them wolfy regardless so i don't see much of a reason to go there

I am not sure Lissa is town

I am actually trending down there

@pzelda can you describe what exactly about arctic's posting in the last 6 hours you townread? Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

The lissa and ben reads just don't feel grounded in how they've approached thread at all to me, and his focus and walling about "here's why we kill x instead of me" and then just shrugging off my question when I gave him an alternative to someone I thought did have a pluasibly wolfy reaction to his claim if he is V (you) was weak sauce.

So walk me through it, what exactly about this slush of franeticicsm can you "not help but like?" Especially considering: 983, 987, 1005, and 1007?

Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

Explain how this is Wolfy lol

Why wouldn't he do that as a village pr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

@pzelda can you describe what exactly about arctic's posting in the last 6 hours you townread? Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

The lissa and ben reads just don't feel grounded in how they've approached thread at all to me, and his focus and walling about "here's why we kill x instead of me" and then just shrugging off my question when I gave him an alternative to someone I thought did have a pluasibly wolfy reaction to his claim if he is V (you) was weak sauce.

So walk me through it, what exactly about this slush of franeticicsm can you "not help but like?" Especially considering: 983, 987, 1005, and 1007?

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i'm shrugging it off because i don't really think the guy is a wolf

it is obvious that i am not trying to kill anyone except myself because i have given two specific targets who no one else wants

what exactly do you expect me to do

my read on benneh is based on objective information and i don't townread his posts today

my read on lissa is more up to debate, but as far as i can tell it is true. she has not meaningfully suggested who a wolf is pre-benneh's post about me

I could see both of them as wolves

I think benneh has tried to overpower you today rather than come to the right answer

And I just feel like Lissa is approaching things like she just did in her recent game

Too many other things to weigh up though

But I can definitely see it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

...huh? that post isn't alignment indicative, he was just explaining a mech point about sunbae's role and the night kill on benneh's behalf (literally re-iterating what he was implying) so i'm curious why you think this means anything



i agree with this

like,, if wolf manti hard pushes a ML there then the wolves in rask/taffy just die shortly afterwards (probably..) and she can easily die right after that. and i don't think voting rask really does much for her either. i think this is easily a game where if you get randed with afk partners you just do some weird shit and lean into this sort of reasoning to get townread. or at least that's what i'd do

i think this point holds more legitimacy concerning the rest of her play in the phase which was originally why i had them as town, and do kinda vibe that way still, but it's not really enough to move the needle for me

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If Arctic flips wolf Maple is never ever the partner I want to point this out
his D1 progression on her was weak townread to dropping that when she got pushed EoD and then this pushing back on Lissa's view of EoD (which is also how I read it), it just aligns too much with the thought I had earlier that Manti has become part of wolves' wincon
I can't see this as distancing

Taffy (13)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

Explain how this is Wolfy lol

Why wouldn't he do that as a village pr

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becasuse as town PR he knows he's right, thread's wrong, and bad shit is happening.

Using that as a basis to solve gives you a lot of insight, but his posting doesn't at all sound to me like he's actually solving with knowledge he's town attempting to figure out who's pushing him. He made multiple posts arguing why 4 PR makes sense here b/c his role is weak, but he called manti probably fake and diff checked manti/benneh.

The solving around "benneh thought i was vanilla FPSing" and "lissa being performative" just didn't feel real at all to me. Espec with the insta pivot into "lissa uninformed" but back into lissa partnered with ben and then asking ben how lissa is ever uninformed. I've actually struggled a lot with what to make of benneh this game, and it's partially tone/style but none of this strikes me as real solving and the stuff he's vocalizing isn't any of the issue's I've had with ben. Obvi if he's PR that would mean he's probs focus on the claim stuff more, but I it doesn't sound like he's actually gone back through benneh's D1/today to reeval, just pushing what he can latch onto and sell.


a few hedges:

972 was probably the best post from his spiel

He said he would quit posting because people wouldn't care because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" but like... most people here absolutely *would* care about that pov, espec once their worldview is shooken up.

He also called himself confirmable tho which ig is technically true, but it reqs using the track on arctic to make sure 1. he visits you, 2. you don't die. In that world we don't mislunch a pr today tho, so it's worth considering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

i'm not assuming you should have me as town, i am well aware of my position

i am saying that you shouldn't be wolfreading me for this reasoning specifically which sounds made up

i stayed on taffy because the anticlaim suggestion sounded explicitly made up given the information i had, rask was just rand or maybe slightly worse because of the threadstate

i did save my last post to claim if i got cfd'ed but i didn't expect to be

anyway i have stated my suspicions, it does not appear that anyone is willing to engage me with them or give me any chance of surviving so i will likely stop posting. i can make a legacy if that would be useful but i think my reads will be discredited because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" so i'm not sure how much people would care

if there's something else that would be useful then let me know, otherwise i will postcap myself so i no longer feel an obligation to stay here

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having my own reasons to scumread you and thinking about your claim in the context of the game instead of just parroting "killing arctic is mechanically optimal" is literally so townie bro lmao, how is that what youre wolfreading??

maybe I just have an exaggerated sense of how I should look from your PoV considering if youre town I defended three town PRs and killed a wolf. nah I get it tho that was TMI ong

I already pinged you with why I thought it wasn't Ben before and after I thought you were a wolf and you didnt respond either time so saying "no one is willing to engage with me" is like. smh. but anyway my bad if youre town, you should leave a legacy and I'll consider it if youre v maybe. (or I can make fun of you in post :3)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

becasuse as town PR he knows he's right, thread's wrong, and bad shit is happening.

Using that as a basis to solve gives you a lot of insight, but his posting doesn't at all sound to me like he's actually solving with knowledge he's town attempting to figure out who's pushing him. He made multiple posts arguing why 4 PR makes sense here b/c his role is weak, but he called manti probably fake and diff checked manti/benneh.

The solving around "benneh thought i was vanilla FPSing" and "lissa being performative" just didn't feel real at all to me. Espec with the insta pivot into "lissa uninformed" but back into lissa partnered with ben and then asking ben how lissa is ever uninformed. I've actually struggled a lot with what to make of benneh this game, and it's partially tone/style but none of this strikes me as real solving and the stuff he's vocalizing isn't any of the issue's I've had with ben. Obvi if he's PR that would mean he's probs focus on the claim stuff more, but I it doesn't sound like he's actually gone back through benneh's D1/today to reeval, just pushing what he can latch onto and sell.


a few hedges:

972 was probably the best post from his spiel

He said he would quit posting because people wouldn't care because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" but like... most people here absolutely *would* care about that pov, espec once their worldview is shooken up.

He also called himself confirmable tho which ig is technically true, but it reqs using the track on arctic to make sure 1. he visits you, 2. you don't die. In that world we don't mislunch a pr today tho, so it's worth considering.

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how have i not been solving who is pushing me in good faith / bad faith

that makes up at least half of my posts since i came back

it is in fact exactly what i am doing - with benneh, with lissa, with pzelda, with annika, with ladd

you can say it's bad if you want but i'm still trying lol

i am not inclined to believe people will care about my pov with how much my reads are being discredited with "you are biased" right in front of my face, evidently i am more capable of reading the room than you are of reading my posts

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

having my own reasons to scumread you and thinking about your claim in the context of the game instead of just parroting "killing arctic is mechanically optimal" is literally so townie bro lmao, how is that what youre wolfreading??

maybe I just have an exaggerated sense of how I should look from your PoV considering if youre town I defended three town PRs and killed a wolf. nah I get it tho that was TMI ong

I already pinged you with why I thought it wasn't Ben before and after I thought you were a wolf and you didnt respond either time so saying "no one is willing to engage with me" is like. smh. but anyway my bad if youre town, you should leave a legacy and I'll consider it if youre v maybe. (or I can make fun of you in post :3)

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i asked you who you would want to kill if not me and you ignored it (im not sure if you still want to kill maple after their claim)

you also ignored me on lissa

you also did not tell me what i should be doing instead when i asked

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

i asked you who you would want to kill if not me and you ignored it (im not sure if you still want to kill maple after their claim)

you also ignored me on lissa

you also did not tell me what i should be doing instead when i asked

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idk actually lmao cus visor confirmed maple's claim. unless that's like. wolf inventor. but if that actually exists and it got randed to maple im gonna CRY

i have no thoughts on lissa's posting today, i just dont think it's ben

lissa I've mostly been TRing for her opening post about being relieved to rand v, and then she voted Rask yesterday which I liked

not really the strongest reasoning but. yeah

Vote: sleep

We need more information

alrighty, started re reading the game

pg1 looks a villa fest lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lissa

ben lightly villagery for maybe silly reasons

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curios what were these silly reasons? @Lissa

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

maple's entry sucks but probly not in an alignment indicative way which is a shame cause she probably coulda seized an easy town read if town by just being less potato. palpability such as in lissa's posting would have been neat to see. oh well.

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to be clear i dont expect to change my read on benneh on this re read, its by far the strongest villa read i have and if he is not a villager i should just hang em up (he is a villager tho), but stuff like this are example of things a wolves doesnt say (iirc this is where my v read on benneh started)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

Maybe lol

I normally wouldn’t omgus someone when I’m playing like this but stett really is in the realm of they should know better because I have actually told her in dms that I almost never replicate this approach as a wolf because it just gets me in hot water for absolutely no benefit to what my wolf agenda would be

She also did something she often likes to do as a wolf which is accuse people of tmi’ing her as town, it’s not a lock telll because obviously people can do that as town too and I’ve been flaunting around the idea that I’m just tmi’ing my reads so if someone does accuse me of that then yeah fair enough lmao I brought it upon myself. But still the way she did it didn’t feel too good because it just feels reachy to me and has a lack of attention to detail on stuff that I expect a villager to be able to pick up

Like for example she claims I walked back my read on her because she claims I saw Ben vote her or something, but that can’t be the case because I was the only person who spoke between the time I outed my read and walked back on it. She could have simply asked me why I walked back my read and it would have avoided this to begin with.

This was one of the few reads I was willing to explain anyways so I may as well

So the process goes like this
1. I see stetts opening post, she’s here immediately, seems happy to play the game and tone overall seems fine so I just throw out the tr
2. I read Ben and Annika’s posts and think they’re town too so I then decide to out all 3 of those reads
3. I notice nobody is really present and I’m kinda bored so I decide to look back at my reads to see if I can spot anything wrong, I notice that stett kinda dipped after being here at sod and I know that she is someone who values sod interactions and using that early period of the game to get some reads. When I combine this with the fact that Benny was present too and he’s someone id imagine her to stick around to interact with or solve I then think it’s a bit wolfy she passed up that opportunity and dipped

Caveat : her second string of posts and explanations as to why she didn’t stick around to talk to Ben made sense so I threw back the tr on her

Buttt then the post on taffy+ voting me undid that lol

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villagery post, i checked back on sod and the timing lines up with waza thought process

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

my only actual tr was lissa, i was just trying to throw some stuff out for content.

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stett had such a weird start to the game (i expect to find out they are an obvious villager later in my read). like idk how throwing random villa reads is generating content and i am confused how lissa is your top v read unless you super value their "relief at randing v" post which like i think is fairly nai?


on pg.5. so far nothing really wolfy (besides taffy string of posts which i still hate but gonna leave alone)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

idk actually lmao cus visor confirmed maple's claim. unless that's like. wolf inventor. but if that actually exists and it got randed to maple im gonna CRY

i have no thoughts on lissa's posting today, i just dont think it's ben

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

lissa I've mostly been TRing for her opening post about being relieved to rand v, and then she voted Rask yesterday which I liked

not really the strongest reasoning but. yeah

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there are 2-3 nontown left which means even if i am a wolf there's 1-2 and you have zero suspects outside of me

does that not concern you somewhat

or perhaps i should ask you who you'd kill tomorrow

lissa only voted rask after trying to kill me first so i would give her no cred for that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

If I cross with the kill I die lol

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Ohhh forget about that chat then :shame:

@Maple

Taffy (15)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

Vote: sleep

We need more information

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it's pretty wolfy how you've managed to fully avoid taking a stance on me today in spite of all the discourse

anyway i think i'm probably at postcap now so that looks like it will be all folks

lissa is a wolf because she tried to wolfside at eod1 and hasn't tried to find a wolf today despite the consensus elim being maple (before the me shenanigans) and her biggest burst of solving conveniently being a bunch of nonsense preflipping me wolf

benneh is a wolf because he has taken the most wolfsided stances with handling my slot today, defending a 0 posting rask isn't really an option, i think he got the towncred there and is burning it today by trying to suggest to ignite me when i was unclaimed and now not wanting to let me live now that i have claimed. @annika i do not think it is implausible that benneh saw waza's post right before he made his and got cold feet that i was a PR and considered i was VT fps'ing and then found the inconsistency and decided to make a gotcha out of it

taffy is probably a third party because she has not attempted to solve the game today and went back to calling me an outted wolf, but with the wording of rask's role she is probably not a wolf

ladd, visor and dya are town and the wolves are going to try and push them tomorrow, don't let them plz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

idk actually lmao cus visor confirmed maple's claim. unless that's like. wolf inventor. but if that actually exists and it got randed to maple im gonna CRY

i have no thoughts on lissa's posting today, i just dont think it's ben

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We had a mafia inventor a few games back (a mafia vest giver, specifically) which was also one of Gemma's games
Dunno how likely she is to repeat herself

Taffy (16)

vote: Lissa