English words that conflict with your language.

sounds kinda gay...

If I compare my language with English, I find alot of conformity. :yes:

dei - they
der - there
her - here (similar pronounciation)
da - that

Yet if words of the same meaning are nothing similar, they do rarely look like words of different meaning. The word "gift" is then an exception, since it just as in German means 'poison' in Norwegian.

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Originally Posted by Viking

(similar pronounciation)

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For some silly reason I've never understood either it's actually "pronunciation". :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Husar

For some silly reason I've never understood either it's actually "pronunciation". :shrug:

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Oh c'mon, this is not the "correct the poster above you" thread. :whip:

(otherwise the misspelling had anything to do with conflicts between languages :laugh4:)

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Originally Posted by Viking

Oh c'mon, this is not the "correct the poster above you" thread. :whip:

(otherwise the misspelling had anything to do with conflicts between languages :laugh4:)

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I was actually correcting you AND sympathising with you at the same time because I find the correct spelling silly. :shrug:

Gift is probably Dutch, since in Dutch the meaning of “gift” depends on context. ‘Gift’ as poison in Dutch is more typically referred to as “vergif” or in older texts “vergift”, with gift as “gift” meaning a gift being the preferred use.

Maybe I missed it but as to confusion from one language to another, why have none of the Germans listed become?

In German you would gladly become a steak but it may not be a good idea in English.

What many cite as a French influence in English is actually Latin. Norman French had an influence but most French is just borrowed words and the structure is more Latin.

English once had all of the cases and genders of German, as well as the assortment of ways to make a plural. I can’t say that it is bad that it has been streamlined.

It all dose make it more difficult for English speakers to master other languages, at least I think so.

My struggles with German are legion and I won’t even mention Bavarian...

Some of you have confused grammar with sentence structure. English is a very pliable language and it adds to its expressiveness. Nouns can be used as verbs and verbs can be used as nouns and make sense.

The vowels are problematic. Any one can sound like almost any other in a given word and the number of different accents don’t help that at all.

English has more sounds with fewer letters than most other languages and the use of diphthongs can cause problems for non native speakers.

But if you want a challenge you can try the oldest spoken language in Europe. The spelling scares the heck out of me and the pronunciation of letters needs to be relearned and more...

Try to learn Irish or as some would say Gaelic...
:laugh4:

Of course become is a classic. But at least it's one you learn about at school extensively.

And Gaelic really is scary. Just seeing the written word and then how it is pronounced astounds me every time!

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Originally Posted by Fragony

This is for people who don't have English as their native language. There are many words in English I have to think about before typing them.

'Dungeon', it just seems wrong to me. Did it in a single try but only because I use it as an example. I also tend to type 'there' when I mean 'their', and 'than' when I mean 'then'. There is no cure but trying really hard.

Where do you get it wrong.

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i imagine; where, were, we're, ware, would also be confusing.

This is a very interesting conversation. It's a particularly odd one for me, because I put a great deal of effort into mastering the English language, but am very poor at speaking other languages. I very much agree that grammar is less important in English than in other languages, or at least in the Romance languages, which are the only other ones I am familiar with. There is a great deal of grammar in English, but most of it is not necessary. Even with improper grammar usage, it is very easy to understand what someone is saying.

One of the main differences, as far as I am aware, is the depth of the Enlish vocabulary. I have seen statistics indicating that English has approximately 3 times as many words as German and approximately 6 times as many words as French. In most other languages, words tend to be combined together to explain a more specific or nuanced concept. While this can also be done easily in English, most of these concepts seem to have their own very specific word as well. In my experience, what separates and experienced English speaker from an inexperienced speaker is not so much the grammar, but the depth of the vocabulary. Those who are considered 'expert' speakers of English tend to achieve that perception based on the words they use, not how they arrange them.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Gift is probably Dutch, since in Dutch the meaning of “gift” depends on context. ‘Gift’ as poison in Dutch is more typically referred to as “vergif” or in older texts “vergift”, with gift as “gift” meaning a gift being the preferred use.

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Old English, actually; very close to Old Dutch. When the two ceased to be mutually intelligable is debated.

Though, it is theoretically possible to strip out exteneous Romance words and Grammar, put on a Newcastle Dialect and then be understood by a Norwegian.

:inquisitive:

Let me show you a fun one, also in the wisdom teeth thread.

wisdom teeth has to come from dutch, we say 'verstandskies' which would translate to wisdom teeth, but the proper name for these baby's is 'verre stand kies' which refers to it's position in the mouth, they are positioned far in the mouth thus 'verre stand'.

TA If you are looking for some truly hilarious dutch screw-ups buy 'I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and also my wives bottom'. Recommended to all flemish for obvious reasons. Most dutch aren't all that good in English, my favorite has to be a college professor telling a foreign student he was trying to lead them around the garden, got him a sausage 'worst teacher award' (worst is dutch for sausage)

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Those who are considered 'expert' speakers of English tend to achieve that perception based on the words they use, not how they arrange them.

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I think this is a good point. Pretty much every native speaker (except those with language disabilities) is going to arrange their words correctly. With the exception of a few prescriptive rules (unnecessary, as you pointed out), the most noticeable difference is likely to be word choice. With English's extensive borrowing from other languages, and its highly productive derivational system, we've got an awfully large set of words to choose from. Mastering the nuances of each term and reliably recalling the best word for each situation takes both talent and work.

Ajax

edit:

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Even with improper grammar usage, it is very easy to understand what someone is saying.

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This, on the other hand, I can't really agree with. If we take all the words in your post and arrange them without proper grammar usage, the result is incomprehensible, at least to me. I even kept each word in the same sentence to make it easier, but while I might get a vague idea of the topic from some of the words used, I wouldn't have a clue what was being said about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TinCow with no grammar

Conversation this is interesting very a. Me languages effort mastering but very am other it's particularly poor English the a a odd into for speaking put of deal I great because one at am language. Least am is grammar agree I than the which Romance other in very familiar with are languages languages I at in or in much ones only important English that less the other. In but necessary there grammar English is not great most is it a of deal of. Easy someone with is very improper grammar understand is what saying usage even to it.


Vocabulary differences aware depth English main far I is of the one as of am the the as. Times 6 as I indicating French German English approximately and 3 have approximately words seen many statistics has times many that as words as as. A to be to most or in more other languages combined words tend explain concept specific together nuanced. Have concepts this can in English specific their most easily also done be of seem word these while very as own to well. Separates experience English experienced speaker inexperienced in my grammar depth but what the vocabulary speaker from so much the an and is not of the. Considered to based words on 'expert' English achieve perception how those speakers of tend who use not arrange they the are that they them.

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Why do I think of Scandinavia when I read that garbled post??

(Or more precisely: why does the cadence of the garbled post make me think of Scandinavian languages?)

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Why do I think of Scandinavia when I read that garbled post??

(Or more precisely: why does the cadence of the garbled post make me think of Scandinavian languages?)

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I can't think of any reason..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Why do I think of Scandinavia when I read that garbled post??

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Same reason I do, think of Scandinavian women all the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

This, on the other hand, I can't really agree with. If we take all the words in your post and arrange them without proper grammar usage, the result is incomprehensible, at least to me. I even kept each word in the same sentence to make it easier, but while I might get a vague idea of the topic from some of the words used, I wouldn't have a clue what was being said about it.

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LOL, you've got me there. Clearly there are some levels of grammatical butchery which make English essentially incomprehensible. What I was imagining were the numerous grammatical errors which are common in people who are still in the early phases of learning or who have otherwise not learned the language properly. It seems like it would be almost impossible to know enough English words to actually use the proper ones, yet know so little of the structure that you speak gibberish. The paragraph you altered seems like something that would only be encountered in someone who had suffered damage to the language section of the brain, not something that would ever be encountered in an otherwise normal person.

That said, I don't have a lot of experience to base any of this on. One of my friends teaches adult literacy, and he's told me about some amazing difficulties that his students encounter which are almost inconceivable for those of us who learned to read when we were young.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

The paragraph you altered seems like something that would only be encountered in someone who had suffered damage to the language section of the brain, not something that would ever be encountered in an otherwise normal person.

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Very true. You're really only ever going to run into that kind of serious grammatical deficiency in people who never learned a first language (deaf people not exposed to signing until teenagers or later, abused children isolated until the same age), people who've suffered strokes or otherwise damaged the language-related parts of the brain, and people with (probably heritable) language impairments.

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What I was imagining were the numerous grammatical errors which are common in people who are still in the early phases of learning or who have otherwise not learned the language properly.

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I know what you mean here, but I'd argue that those aren't errors, but features of non-standard dialects/ideolects. When it comes to language, the early phases of learning are 1.5 to 2.5 years. By 3 years old, the grammar is pretty much known. Rules that have to be drilled later are not a part of the language itself, but artificial add-ons. Of course, that doesn't mean it's not important to observe them in certain social settings, because a lot of how we judge people depends on whether they've learned those little add-ons.

Ajax

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

TA If you are looking for some truly hilarious dutch screw-ups buy 'I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and also my wives bottom'.

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This calls for the classic:

https://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4933/skieurs.jpg

Then again, from what we've learned of ski-instructors, for all we know it isn't a mistaken translation.



Marie qui se masse, all the world! :beam:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

It all dose make it more difficult for English speakers to master other languages, at least I think so.

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It's a cultural thing rather than an actual language thing. We seem to take genuine pride in what is actually a national embarrassment; namely, our amazingly poor language skills.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

My struggles with German are legion

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Der den dem des
Die die der der
Das das dem des
Die die denr der
:wall::wall:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I won’t even mention Bavarian...

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"Habèderè, i bî da Pèda und kimm vo Minga"
:dizzy2:

Quote:

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Try to learn Irish or as some would say Gaelic...

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It's impossible and pointless. The word order is way more screwed up than in German. Although it is funny having to explain to Germans that Welsh is no mere dialect of English, and then having to show them some Welsh to prove it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Subotan

It's a cultural thing rather than an actual language thing. We seem to take genuine pride in what is actually a national embarrassment; namely, our amazingly poor language skills.

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This is true, but with 6-10 times the vocabulary as other languages, and the need to master complex syntax in order to have the flexability of an inflected language. So, a native speaker probably uses more brain-space for his first language if that language is English.

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It's impossible and pointless. The word order is way more screwed up than in German. Although it is funny having to explain to Germans that Welsh is no mere dialect of English, and then having to show them some Welsh to prove it.

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I understand Welsh sounds like a Scandanavian Language to Germans, apparently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Subotan

It's a cultural thing rather than an actual language thing. We seem to take genuine pride in what is actually a national embarrassment; namely, our amazingly poor language skills.



Der den dem des
Die die der der
Das das dem des
Die die denr der
:wall::wall:


"Habèderè, i bî da Pèda und kimm vo Minga"
:dizzy2:


It's impossible and pointless. The word order is way more screwed up than in German. Although it is funny having to explain to Germans that Welsh is no mere dialect of English, and then having to show them some Welsh to prove it.

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Where are you from? Because I always thought you were Bavarian... :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

This calls for the classic:

https://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4933/skieurs.jpg

Then again, from what we've learned of ski-instructors, for all we know it isn't a mistaken translation.



Marie qui se masse, all the world! :beam:

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The best is found in a bathroom in Thailand 'to avoid drip turn cock', can't find pic sadly

A recent classic, Oogheelkunde naturally means Eyehealing

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...wikzieniks.jpg

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

This is true, but with 6-10 times the vocabulary as other languages, and the need to master complex syntax in order to have the flexability of an inflected language. So, a native speaker probably uses more brain-space for his first language if that language is English.

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What is "brain-space"? And besides, those could easily be turned on their head, as by already having this huge vocabulary, we don't need to memorize whole sets of foreign synonyms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I understand Welsh sounds like a Scandanavian Language to Germans, apparently.

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Haha, that's actually funny. When I showed my exchange partner Welsh, she was visibly shaken.

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Where are you from? Because I always thought you were Bavarian... :sweatdrop:

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I wish. I'm from Lancashire.

Louis,

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Then again, from what we've learned of ski-instructors, for all we know it isn't a mistaken translation.

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I'd say the chance is 50/50 :laugh4:


Centurio Nixalsverdrus,

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Habèderè, i bî da Pèda und kimm vo Minga

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I have spent way to much time among hillbilly germans... I actually have no problem understanding that... :shame:




One word that always irritated me is smell. For me it feels very unnatural to use the same word for something that can go both ways, smells good, smells bad. I know you can specify it, however, most English people don't.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

One word that always irritated me is smell. For me it feels very unnatural to use the same word for something that can go both ways, smells good, smells bad. I know you can specify it, however, most English people don't.

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It's exactly the same for a sight or sound though, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

It's exactly the same for a sight or sound though, isn't it?

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sound yes, but not sight... Guess it is because sounds and smells can be pleasing or not, while sights rarely actually affect you much physicly.

*except for women* :beam:

One word in English that sounds ridiculous, to me at least, is spoon. Just keep saying it over and over again out loud.

....and no, I'm not drunk. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

sound yes, but not sight... Guess it is because sounds and smells can be pleasing or not, while sights rarely actually affect you much physicly.

*except for women* :beam:

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You're wrong, "that's a sight" can be negative or positive, just like a smell or sound; it needs to be qualified in exactly the same way, "That's a horrible sight" or "that's a fine sight".

See.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

You're wrong, "that's a sight" can be negative or positive, just like a smell or sound; it needs to be qualified in exactly the same way, "That's a horrible sight" or "that's a fine sight".

See.

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I think I didn't explain well enough. Yes, a sight can of course also be "good" or "bad".

However, sights dont have the same physical impact as smells and noises.

A sight you usually need to explain more vividly than a smell. If something smells bad, it's enough to say that it smells bad and people will get your point.

Bad smell - physicly affects your nose...
Bad noise - physicly affects your ears...

But a sight? It isnt hurting the eyes. Thus you need to be more elaborate when you describe it...

I guess that is the reason why we lack a word for "bad" sight, while we have it for smells and noise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I think I didn't explain well enough. Yes, a sight can of course also be "good" or "bad".

However, sights dont have the same physical impact as smells and noises.

A sight you usually need to explain more vividly than a smell. If something smells bad, it's enough to say that it smells bad and people will get your point.

Bad smell - physicly affects your nose...
Bad noise - physicly affects your ears...

But a sight? It isnt hurting the eyes. Thus you need to be more elaborate when you describe it...

I guess that is the reason why we lack a word for "bad" sight, while we have it for smells and noise.

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Ah, I see. Well we have "stink" and "stench" there, a "smell" is just a verbal noun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Why do I think of Scandinavia when I read that garbled post??

(Or more precisely: why does the cadence of the garbled post make me think of Scandinavian languages?)

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Most likely is that it reminds you of the parodied versions they have in English speaking media.

The only thing I can think of is that scandinavian grammar is often the same as the English one, but using constant direct translations would occationally give sentences with odd grammar.

One mistake in English I often seem to make is forgetting the extra O in, for example, "too large". Or misspelling a word in English because the same word exists in Dutch but with a slightly different spelling, like succes(s). Kind of embarrassing. When I found out that mafia is spelled with only one "f" in English, it killed me ~:mecry:

As for grammar, I probably wouldn't be able to explain basic grammar rules in either English or Dutch even if my life depended on it. Generally speaking, I instinctively apply them the right way...or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Let me show you a fun one, also in the wisdom teeth thread.

wisdom teeth has to come from dutch, we say 'verstandskies' which would translate to wisdom teeth, but the proper name for these baby's is 'verre stand kies' which refers to it's position in the mouth, they are positioned far in the mouth thus 'verre stand'.

TA If you are looking for some truly hilarious dutch screw-ups buy 'I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and also my wives bottom'. Recommended to all flemish for obvious reasons. Most dutch aren't all that good in English, my favorite has to be a college professor telling a foreign student he was trying to lead them around the garden, got him a sausage 'worst teacher award' (worst is dutch for sausage)

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Teh wiki disagrees with you...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

One word that always irritated me is smell. For me it feels very unnatural to use the same word for something that can go both ways, smells good, smells bad. I know you can specify it, however, most English people don't.

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If it's unspecified then it always means it's a bad smell. If some just says "that smells" then they always mean "that smells bad".