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Smth weird with alpha, coz even not every textures from BI or RTW works properly in Max.
Check this Portugal invader (of course still work in progress) Made by myself :shy:
https://i841.photobucket.com/albums/...t/portug01.jpg
Edit
On the right the same model but with mesh smooth
PS
Cute Wolf, or Sonic, please make Modeling and Concept Units threads in Nu3tara forum. It would more convenient. I will dl everyting there.
that looks nice. Good work.
good, just change his weapons from pike and sword, to musket, crossbow, and give him shield and sword, we allready have models for pikemen, swordsmen, crossbowmen, and musketters. And if we put skin with lighter armour, there goes the colonial (horde) pikemen and colonial crosbowmen...
So 6 units are basically on the completion :thumbsup:
And I should inform the map progress here, I;ve completed the west java regions except banten...
https://i1021.photobucket.com/albums...imap130410.jpg
some correction:
Galuh=Kawali.
Tarum= ? do you mean Sundapura or Tangaram? former Tarumanagara capital. its located about there.
Majalengka=Rajagaluh. Majalengka is today name.
Suggestion:
and make Cirebon rebel city. because its stop sending Seba since 1404 Saka. about 15th century.
Finn, send me the file you need help with the alpha layer
~Jirisys (alpha... that's funny)
@ Finn, yeah... just made that thread... (Btw, forumotion can't be opened when I was on the university network... so please be patient until I back home :grin:)
Penjaga Cumi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
Yoi.... (btw, udah gw bobol barusan :)) ) -> tau aja... nama penjagacumi ITB terkenal banget yah...
Salam tuan-tuan semua,
I have a few peaceful caklempong and gamelan songs (that can be used for stratmap) and energetic serunai songs (can be used for battle / mobilization). Can I contribute some?
I'm not sure it will be used for nusantara tw. but please share it to me. I need it for my homework assigment.:clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by intifadanyz
yeah, sure, just post their download link, and we'll consider it...
actually sounds wasn't considered in our first relase, but we did plan sound effects and in depth campaign immersion to be improved after we finished the first relase
oops, double post
yeah good! I have some nice music.
Bubuka Gajah Putih Ngalng Jagat. good for battle music.
http://www.ziddu.com/download/945920...Jagat.mp3.html
and this one Kacapi and Tarawangsa.
http://www.ziddu.com/download/945920...angsa.mp3.html
just found nice music for european.
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946020...eReal.wma.html
These are the links for Gamelan songs. These songs are used mainly in graduation ceremony and convocation in universities in Malaysia
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946028...URUNG.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/9460414/02TOGOK.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946063...GGUNG.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946077...AWADA.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/9461140/05TOPENG.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946129...GSARI.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946147...NTING.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946158...kAyak.mp3.html
And these are the links for Serunai songs and used mainly during Silat performance.
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946167...ilat1.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946184...ilat2.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946324...etani.mp3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946335...Kedah.mp3.html
I'll put the links for a few Telempong / Caklempong songs after finish upload them at Ziddu.
And these are the links for Telempong / caklempong songs and used mainly during Malay wedding ceremony especially at the area of Minangkabau settlers (Negeri Sembilan and upper Selangor).
http://www.ziddu.com/download/9463747/Aladom.MP3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946379...hLamo.MP3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946389...grade.MP3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/9463956/Kelok9.MP3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946400...kArau.MP3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/946405...Layar.MP3.html
http://www.ziddu.com/download/9464072/Sakinah.MP3.html
Salam tuan-tuan semua,
I suggested some revision of a few unit names (if it can be changed) based on Hikayat Hang Tuah.
a) Milisi - I think this is not Malay word, it is a loanword from English Militia, while in Hikayat Hang Tuah the word used for unamoured /untrained unit is Penjurit or prajurit
"Maka sembah Tun Tuah, "Daulat Tuanku, tiada berguna pegawai sekalian; janganlah berperang bermati-mati, sekadar menaiki kuda ini lagi tiada mau. Sia-sialah menjadi pegawai; layaknya menjadi Penjurit berjalan malam mengambil harta orang dan membunuh orang juga.”
In this dialogue, Tun Tuah was condemning the officers (pegawai) because of the inability to handle a horse, and their status were same as militia or guerilla (penjurit).
Hikayat Hang Tuah told a few cases that the penjurit run amuck killing people, stealing and robbing, in this dialogue, Tun Tuah referring penjurit as berjalan malam (walking at night), mengambil harta orang (stealing and robbing) and membunuh orang (killing people).
b) Milisi Panah Melayu – just named it Pemanah or Pemanah Melayu
c) Tentera serbu Melaka – no such thing as tentera serbu, change it to pasukan penggempur / tentera penggempur / pasukan tempur (shock trooper)
d) Melayu Dalam – just named it Orang Pedalaman / Orang Melayu Pedalaman / Orang Gunung (mountain people), or Orang Hulu / Orang Ulu (upper river people)
e) Malay regular Infantry – regular infantry were addressed as Hulubalang in hikayat Hang Tuah
f) Bodyguard of Mentri (Minister) - were addressed as Pegawai dan Pertuanan in Hikayat Hang Tuah, some of them were riding horses, some of them walking
“Maka Temenggung dan patih naik kuda. Maka segala pegawai yang banyak itu ada yang naik kuda, ada yang berjalan di tanah mengiringkan.”
“Maka Bendahara dan Temenggung pun menyembah lalu keluar diiringkan oleh segala pegawai dan pertuanan”
correct me if I wrong, Laskar also mean Prajurit, right?
I am not sure about that....have to check KAMUS DEWAN....but I know that Laskar and Askar (loanword from Arab) come from Persian word "Lashkar"... in Hikayat Hang Tuah and Sejarah Melayu, the word that used for unit were: Penjurit (I think for militia); Hulubalang (I think for regular infantry); Pegawai dan Pertuanan (always used for Mentri bodyguard, some using horse, some not); Bentara (special bodyguard, in hikayat Hang Tuah, Hang Tuah and 5 of his siblings were appointed firstly as Penghulu bodyguard, than Bendahara bodyguard, after that as Bentara [the court bodyguard], than appointed as Laksamana [Melaka envoys]); Kesatria (special for Benua Keling [India] knight; and gajah kenaikan (Melaka Sultan and Raja Muda riding elephant)......the word Seridadu / serdadu (soldadu) also mentioned, but came with / after Portuguese invasion, maybe the loanword from Portuguese, (ie: Soldier).
I also encountered with the word pahlawan and pendekar , like the sentences "pendekar yang memegang pedang bertelanjang (no scabbard)..."but not sure about their ranking...
Hikayat Hang Tuah also mention the about aborigines people from scattered small island...They were called as Sakai and their elder as Batin....using Sumpit (blowpipe) and Damak (dart)...
But I not encounter with the word Laskar / askar from my reading....
laskar means that they are "pseudo-arabic" troopers, because as far as Sonic tells me, both Aceh, and melayu Sultanates modelled their army after Ottoman ones...
And our Melayu historian said that they don't have anything to replace the word "milisi" because "penjurit" is allready have conotation for middle-rank soldiers... so they said we may use the loaned words....
BTW, we'll consider that after I can establish some contact and discuss that with sonic...
hmm I think it's better to use loanword from Arab "Wataniah" (army raised during emergency) than the loan word from Europe Language..... if you are going to use loanword.... even the word milisi is not used in Malaysia. In Malaysia the word is "militan".
my malaysian friends are actually said that I should search the word from indonesia-malaysia common words.... but I admit that was because of overseeing or somewhat....
Cute Wolf should allready sent you a message. :bow:
Am I still in this?
or, just a Public Relations OP
I have found 2 more units that have been used in Melaka from Hikayat Hang Tuah:
a) Pengawal (Townwatch): Working directly under Temenggung (equivalent to Malaysian nowadays Inspector-General of Police), raised when cases of stealing emerged. Equipped with kayu (woods), lembing (spear) and perisai (shield) maybe low quality
b) Pertikaman: Working directly under Laksamana (Malacca Envoy). Equipped with tombak (pike), and get "musara" (gaji / salaries).
I am not really sure that these 2 units are appropriate to which-one that were listed before....
wea llready got both of that unit in our lastest lists... but under the name of Malayan-Sriwijayan pikemen (both employed melayu pikemen), and city militia... (but the later is equipped with bows).... I think hikayat melayu told that city guards (pengawal kota), were equipped with bows and swords, and placed on the lookout of the city (language?)
I think the attribute of Pengawal is equivalent to Melayu Militia. But nowadays the connotation of Pengawal is associated with someone with regularly paid salaries... I think better to change it to Orang Berkawal (Watchmen).
"Maka baginda pun bertitah kepada Temenggung, "Hai Temenggung, suruh orang berkawal dan segala saudagar berkawal pada kampungnya."
"Setelah hari malam maka Kertala Sari pun masuklah ke dalam kota. Maka didengarnya bunyi orang berkawal dan bunyi perisai lembing gemerentak."
The Pengawal Kota is OK. It is logic that the City Guards equipped with bow and guarded the lookout (menara peninjau / pondok kawalan).
Actually I am trying to find the equivalent unit name in history... to the modern ears, the words sometimes weird..... like Pertikaman.... from the word tikam (stab)...... modern Malay is not using this word anymore...but that was written in Hikayat Hang Tuah..
Find the equivalent unit name in history is much harder than make direct translation... If I cannot find the word in literature, direct translation maybe the solution...
hmmm can you tell me what is the different from sword, longsword or short sword? Is the short sword same as keris? or parang? I know "pedang" but in Hikayat Hang Tuah, the user of "pedang" is called Pendekar while the Melaka Court Royal Guard (Bentara) used keris panjang
The usage of "pedang" is rarely in Malay culture.... parang, golok and keris are more used.
that was parang, (mungkin kita lebih baik bicara dicampur campur sedikit, karena parang, pedang, dan keris panjang semuanya bisa dibilang sebagai "sword".... bahasa inggris kurang kosakata :wink:)
hmm... but what about the acehnese sword "pedeung"? it was definitely a one bladed cutlass (sometimes the back blade was sharpened in half too) with 60-75 cm blade... and that was descended from ancient malayan weapon.
And the unit name "Pendekar" was allready used in their javanese spelling as the unit "Pandekar", armed with two handed swords, signature of the advanturer warrior class that time.
I have 2 questions:
a) Why you all use Malaka instead of Melaka?
b) Could you make clarification to me what is short sword, sword and long sword?
Pedang
Usage of Pedang is rarely in Malay culture. Malay warriors were master of close combat. So usually they created the weapon suitable for close combat, ie have relatively short hilt and blade, ranged from the longest (keris panjang > parang / golok > keris biasa > belati > kerambit > lawi ayam (smaller than dagger, sometimes cannot be seen by other when held in the fist)
In Sejarah Melayu, pedang was used as the protocol symbol / symbol of grandeur / symbol of sovereignty in the Court. “Pedang Kerajaan” was hold by Seri Amerta (protocol officer) in Melaka Court, as well as the scepter (ornamental rod carried by monarchs as symbol of sovereignty: cogan alam).
Peudeung
For Peudeung, I am not sure if it was descended from ancient Malay weapon. In Sejarah Melayu, there were written that Wan Empuk dan Wan Malini encountered with 3 foreign princes, wearing beautiful clothes, and holding Curik (an ancient weapon), Kayu Bercap (maybe staff?), Pedang (sword) and lembing (spear).
They asked, “Who are you?” and the princes answered “we are the descendant of Iskandar Zulkarnain [from Makaduniah] (Alexander the Great from Macedonia)…… Malay legend also wants to associate the Malay King with Alexander :laugh4:
This happen at Bukit Seguntang long long before Parameswara founded Melaka…Maybe this is the explanation of the ancient weapon…
For Acheh, they maybe used peudeung extensively, because the peudeung symbol appeared on their flag, and they named their flag Alam Peudeung.
Pendekar
For Pendekar, Hikayat Hang Tuah associated pendekar with the usage of Pedang. So for the Malay unit that used pedang, like Half-Arab swordmen, I suggest that unit can be translated as Pendekar Syamsir (scimitar in Kamus Dewan and Hikayat Hang Tuah is syamsir) or to make it more Persian / Arabic sound, we can used “Pahlawan Syamsir” because the word Pahlawan derived from Persia.
For Malay unit that not used pedang, the word pendekar maybe is not going to be used, and for that purpose, I want to get clarification that which unit use pedang, which unit use parang....
I've been wondering same question. its called Malaka here.Quote:
a) Why you all use Malaka instead of Melaka?
Actually that was Sonic's work (blaming the poor Sonic) :clown:
And the Half-Arab swordsmen thingies is a unit that all the initially Muslim factions will share, as they are called "bala kauman" in Babad Tanah Jawi, and I (no that was specifically my suggestion actually) throw the word "Laskar" at that place.... :shame:
Yeah, Aceh and Malaka (and to lesser extent Palembang and Sriwijayan dynasty) will share much of their units, since they are belongs to "melayu sucessor kingdoms" group. And while you maybe ask for Laskar Melayu (the cheap shortswordsmen unit, actually, they are extensively used in Northern part of Sumatera, and the Islands), they will use golok as their weapon. And while your comment actually give me some insight why Sonic get the unit of "Malakan Royal Swordsmen", I'm not sure on your arguments that "swords" are rare weaponary that time, as golok was widely available in common households that time.
Oh yeah, sonic just contacted me, and he said that he get some citation from "hikayat Melayu(?)" and "sejarah Makuta Alam(?)" to prove that "parang" are very common weapon that time... *looking for his archieve that was left here in bandung*
if I recall correctly, parang was popular but in kalimantan part of malaysia. it was originally a Dyak weapon.
pretty much, but we don't have kalimantan on the map.....
and while the very same weapon was called mandau in Kalimantan, Javanese, Sundanese, and pretty much everyone allready had their own parang...
a) Malaka or Melaka?
So, We used Malaka or Melaka?
b) Half-Arab Swordmen
Oh I see, if there was a historical name for the unit, just use and retain it. "Bala" is common word in Malay, mean "Tentera" (loanword from Sanskrit, the word appear in Srivijayan Inscription of Kedukan Bukit), but kauman in Kamus Dewan mean "community".... :confused:
c) Laskar
There are Lasykar word in Hikayat Hang Tuah (at glossary) . But until now not encountered with it...still searching :book::computer: :huh:. Not sure which unit used laskar.
d) Malakan Royal Swordsmen
In Hikayat Hang Tuah, the Court Bodyguard was called Bentara. But they used Keris Panjang. There were 2 types of bodyguard, the royal bodyguard (Bentara) and the noble bodyguard (Pegawai dan Pertuanan).
e) Parang
Malay called it parang and it's common in our kitchen and garden......:laugh4: Golok also common Malay word....
I think Melaka better. Kesultanan Melayu Melaka.
yeah, maybe we should change their name too... *kicking sonic's butt for that mistake*
And, thanks for the critical correction you've made Intifadanyz.......
could you help me with the city list on the Melakan Peninsulla then? I've made the map, but this is still WIP
here's the lastest of my work, and I decide to retexture the map...
https://j.imagehost.org/0022/0004.jpg
what is your opinion about the textures? should we get back to standard RTW one? or this one (modified a bit M2 texture)
this better
Wah!!! Cantiknya peta!!!
hmmm, are you going to use dual colour for faction? I think single colour like EB is prettier.
Anyway, this is the list:
Cities list in Peninsular Malaysia
1. Johor Mainland
a) Johor Lama: start as just a fishing village at Johor River bank, then became capital for Johor-Riau-Lingga Sultanate in the reign of the first Johor Sultan, Sultan Alauddin Riayat Shah. She became a base for launching attack on Portuguese at Melaka.
b) Batu Sawar
c) Pagoh
d) Muar
2. Island at South of Johor
a) Singapura (you named it Tumasik, don’t you? I am not sure, but in Sejarah Melayu it was called Temasik (not Tumasik) at the reign of Parameswara in Melaka, but in the reign of Sultan Mahmud Syah (last Sultan of Melaka), it was already called Singapura.
b) Bentan
c) Riau
d) Lingga
3. Melaka
a) Melaka itself !!!! :yes:
b) Bertam (at Ulu Melaka / Melaka inland)
4. Negeri Sembilan
a) Sungai Ujong
5. Selangor
a) Klang (stated in Sejarah Melayu as vassal of Melaka)
b) Bernam / Sabak Bernam
6. Perak
a) Bruas (stated in Sejarah Melayu as vassal of Melaka, formerly as capital of ancient Hindu-Buddha kingdom of Gangga Negara)
b) Tanah Abang (first capital of successor Melaka Sultanate of Perak)
c) Relap Hati (at Hulu Perak/ Perak inland)
7. Kedah
a) Kota Seputeh
b) Baling
c) Langkawi (stated in Sejarah Melayu)
8. Kelantan
a) Chinta Wangsa (at Ulu Kelantan / Kelantan Inland)
b) Jembal (at Hilir Kelantan / Lower Kelantan)
c) Kota Mahligai (at Bachok, as former capital of Patani Kingdom)
9. Terengganu
a) Kuala Terengganu
b) Kuala Berang (at Terengganu Inland / Hulu Terengganu)
10. Pahang
a) Pekan (at Kuala pahang / Lower Pahang)
b) Ulu Tembeling (at Pahang inland)
11. Patani
a) Senggora (stated in Sejarah Melayu)
b) Beredung Budi (at Hulu Patani / Patani inland)
c) Grisek
I think this is the cities list in peninsular Malaysia. I’ll update it if I have more infos.
Guys, can you post pictures of weapon references so I can start modeling them. Seems like there's still a lot of debate to be done about the soldier models so weapon models are easier and more precise. The only reason I modeled the Melayu Militia so early is because they look like stereo-typical Maduran satay vendors so easy to imagine what they should look like.
@intifadanyz :
The faction we made will be the representation of 7 dominant royal family and their allied families in this period (even when their "kingdom" at the starting date will be soon to be destroyed... or at most history books, they are considered allready non existant (such as the inclusion of Buddhist Sriwijayan lineage, actually they officially called the alliance kingdom of Jambi with kingdom of Pematang Purba here, but they still called themself Sriwijaya, and using Sriwijayan symbols, the same goes to Majapahit, as theiy are actually representing the Blambangan and Balinese Sucessor kingdoms, that was still called themself "wong Majapahit".) the Royal family actually just made another kingdoms, or move to somewhere else) the map faction colours is still using default BI factions for map-making purpose, you could see that Berbers will turn into Melaka, Sassanids will turn into Aceh, Franks will turn into Sriwijaya, Saxons will turn into Palembang, Vandals will turn into Pajajaran, Huns will turn into Majapahit, and Bintara are not yet made their regions, due to CTD when I try to made Muria Straits (DARRRNNNNN LANDMASS RATIO!!!! actually the muria peninsulla at that time was Muria island, separated by a small strait). BTW, we'll almost certain to use one colour faction, except for Portugese and VOC (so they'll have better mark)
@ Wlesmana
Maybe I'll post that as soon as I've going back to my kost (berapa hari ini di lab terus, ngerjain TA... hehehehe)
En. Cute Wolf:
a) Faction represent royal family
Hmm I already noticed and very very understand because you all have stated that in your previous posts in this forum and elsewhere, and I have no complain about that. Although in history, when the last Sultan of Melaka pass away, his 2 sons founded 2 separated successor kingdoms of Johor and Perak, in this game, it will not separate and still be named Melaka. Even in this game, if the kingdom of Melaka reduced and only own Patani, it still called Melaka....:laugh4:
b) Faction colour
It is up to you to use what colour for what faction. It is your full authorization...
c) City list
How about the city list? It is too much? I know about the maximum region limit in RTW... If you think it is too much, we can discuss and use only the very very important cities... Some of the cities were stated in Sejarah Melayu and Hikayat Hang Tuah, some of them stated in Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa (especially the cities in Kedah and Kelantan), some of them existed as big cities during the Kingdom of Srivijaya (the real Srivijaya of course, not Srivijaya represent in this game :laugh4:), some of them started as fishing villages, then only became important after the foundation of Perak and Johor...
Anyway, there were many settlement recorded in history, some of them were villages, some were cities and some were only defensive forts... especially in Johor, along the river bank of Sungai Johor... All the settlements there ever became Johor capital because the capital have been moved many times because of Portuguese attack...
Kingdom of Perak also have may capitals along Perak River because they moved their capital regularly (actually not they... it is our capital...because I am from Perak and Perak is my hometown :laugh4:)
At that time, at Kelantan, there were many small small kingdoms with their own capital, and their kingdoms was no larger than a Kabupaten...
by the way, the city numbers in peninsular Malaysia represented how populated the region are at that time, comparable to the Java and Sumatera...
Bla bla bla...anyway, just ignore my babbling....:laugh4:
PS: En. Cute Wolf...buat apa di LAB? saya di LAB mengkulturkan sel....
PS: En. Plutoboyz...cantik sekali model konsepnya di forumation
Wah Wah hebatnya gunungnya ada salji :laugh4:
I have started a thread at forumotion. its also include unit conceptQuote:
Originally Posted by wlesmana
http://nu3tara.forumotion.net/the-de...erence-t23.htm
I have some questions:
a) What is / are the different (s) between spear and pike? I am confuse.... In Malay text there were mention about tombak and lembing, I am not sure which one is spear, which one is pike.... I know about javelin... in Malay text it was called Seligi. (Seligi is a classic word, the modern for javelin is Tempuling).
b) What is "2 handed"? Is it mean one weapon held by both hands? or 2 weapons held by each hand?
c) Were Malay and Acheh people names have been post elsewhere?
a) a pike is a an extremely long weapon, varying considerably in size, from 3 to 6 metres (10 to over 20 feet) long. It had a wooden shaft with an iron or steel spearhead affixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by intifadanyz
a spear a pole weapon consisting of a shaft, usually of wood, with a sharpened head. The head may be simply the sharpened end of the shaft itself, as is the case with bamboo spears, or it may be of another material fastened to the shaft, such as obsidian, iron or bronze. The most common design is of a metal spearhead, shaped like a triangle or a leaf. A spear's lenght is usually from 3 up to 8 feet (if used overarm) and to 16 feet (if used underarm)
b) Two handed means it's a weapon you need to use with both hands, a double wielding soldier is a troop with a weapon in each hand
c) i don't know
~Jirisys (they're two handed phalanxes... WHAT! THEY HAVE A SPEAR IN EACH HAND!!!:clown:)
a. pike is a long spear. tombak is standard spear. lembing is javelin. you know lempar lembing or rejam lembing?Quote:
Originally Posted by intifadanyz
b. 2 handed mean held by two hand (longsword or greatsword). dual wield mean you have two weapon held by each hand
c. I don't know. just post your sugestion here or in our forum.
Thanks...
That's make a clear explanation and helping me matching the unit name with the one stated in Malay text....
In Hikayat Hang Tuah the one that throwed is seligi
"Maka kata Hang Jebat sambil menangkiskan seligi (javelin) dan anak damak (dart) seperti hujan datangnya....
It is just Kamus Dewan make me confuse, It said that in lembing is same as seligi (smaller and shorter than tombak, the one that thrown), but in some entries it said lembing is same as tombak....
From my understanding, lembing is the one that thrown.
Hmmm. what about lance?
Kepada Jirisys: Hampeh mangkuk ayun ni kata kat aku.......
note : I just put in your input for the unit name, and made several changes to Melayu culture Infantry and cav units so please do some checking there :beam:
Melayu Watchmen (spears) = Orang Berkawal
Melayu City Guards (archer-shortswords) = Pengawal Kota
Acehnese Swordsmen (swords) = Laskar Aceh
Melayu-Sriwj Spearmen (javelin-spears) = Penjurit
Melayu Shock Trooper (double swords) = Tentera Penggempur
Melayu-Sriwj Mariners (archer-2handed spears) = Tentara Laot (?)
Melayu-Sriwj Pikemen (pike-shortswords) = Pertikaman
Melayu-Sriwj Halberdiers (2handed spear-axes) = Penjurit Tombak-Kapak (?)
Acehnese Heavy Infantry (shortswords) = Serdadu Pedeung
Melayu Heavy Archers (archer-scimitars) = Serdadu Pemanah
Malakan Elite Mariners (javelin-axes) = Hulubalang Laot (?)
Half-Arab Swordsmen (scimitars) = Laskar Arab
Melayu Ottoman Elite Infantry (archer-scimitars) = Pahlawan Syamisir (?)
Malakan Royal Swordsmen (longswords) = Bentera Istana (?)
Acehnese Honorary Guards (javelin-axes) = Sahabat Istana
Melayu Light Cav (lancers-cavmaces)
Melayu Noble Cav (lances-cavlswords)
Acehnese Royal Horsemen (cavmaces)
Melayu-Sriwj Forest Worker Elephants (elephant-javelin)
Melayu Royal War Elephants (elephant archers)
Melayu Iron-Clad War Elephants (elephant-javelin)
Note that some of them are shared units with South Sumateran Culture... I allready do the rebalancing by doing the equation again...
you know, sometimes in reality. soldier throw their spears. just to kill enemy instantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by intifadanyz
Thanks Mr. Cute Wolf. Here my suggestion:
a) Melayu-Sriwj Spearmen (javelin-spears) = Penjurit
is the usage of the word penjurit here parallel with the units that used word prajurit in Jawa and Pajajaran? If it’s parallel, than ok, we have some connection here…
b) Melayu Shock Trooper (double swords) = Tentera Penggempur
Melayu shock trooper used double sword, how about change it to Pendekar?
c) Melayu-Sriwj Mariners (archer-2handed spears) = Tentara Laot (?)
Hulubalang
d) Melayu-Sriwj Halberdiers (2handed spear-axes) = Penjurit Tombak-Kapak (?)
Well, Pengawitan is the name for Melakan infantry equipped with special spear stated in hikayat Hang Tuah. (tombak pengawitan bersampak emas)...
e) Melayu Ottoman Elite Infantry (archer-scimitars) = Pahlawan Syamisir (?)
You said that in Babad Tanah Jawi, it was called Bala Kauman?
f) Melayu Heavy Archers (archer-scimitars) = Serdadu Pemanah
The word serdadu have connotation with Portuguese and scimitars were the influence from middle-east....maybe just used Pemanah or Laskar Pemanah, because the usage of scimitars here.
g) Malakan Elite Mariners (javelin-axes) = Hulubalang Laot (?)
I am not sure, in Hikayat Hang Tuah, there were stated the word perapit, and in other chapter, penjajap
h) Malakan Royal Swordsmen (longswords) = Bentera Istana (?)
Bentara
i) Aiyyah…..so many elephant….Anyway, for the elephant, I think only Melakan Sultan and faction heir and sometimes others royal family members (not all) used elephant, that was: Melayu Royal War Elephants and it was called Gajah Kenaikan.
Some of the royal members used horse, while the others used Palanquin.ie Paduka Tuan (Melakan Bendahara during reign of Sultan Mahmud Syah) fight Portuguese on the Palanquin, also Sultan Mahmad Syah II (last Johore Sultan from Melakan Sultan lineage) also has been kill on Palanquin. I don't think the commoners used elephant.
j) Melayu Noble Cav (lances-cavlswords) - Pegawai dan Pertuanan. I think this unit can be made as recruitable general unit
k) For Acheh, the nobles were called Ulèë Balang. Which unit suited them? Acheh Royal Horsemen or Acehnese Honorary Guards?
true, so they are veriviedQuote:
Originally Posted by intifadanyz
Pendekar, or more rightly "Pandekar" is allready taken by Javanese commoner knights... I remember to read about them, prisoners, former pirates and convicts, that volunteered to fight in the shock troops as a pardon (pangampunan) to their past crimes, mentioned in acehnese articles, but they also mention that Malaysian sultanates also have this kind of pardon system... so I guess they are common shock troops employed that time... (two handed sword is probably only our (sonic and me) interpretation, since it was hard to think you are only given one sword and must go charge the enemy line without a shield or any kind of protection (they said about only wearing simple clothes), and another sentences mentioned that their hands are full of blood (indirectly means that they use both hands to swing different swords - as in Acehnese soldiery, great two handed sword (peusangan) are reserved only for military cadets, and not criminals).Quote:
b) Melayu Shock Trooper (double swords) = Tentera Penggempur
Melayu shock trooper used double sword, how about change it to Pendekar?
And in this matter, I must say that I'll stick with tentara anyway, because that was how the Sumateran sea warriors are described. And with Halberdiers, maybe I'll use Pangawitan, as you suggested... :beam:Quote:
c) Melayu-Sriwj Mariners (archer-2handed spears) = Tentara Laot (?)
Hulubalang
d) Melayu-Sriwj Halberdiers (2handed spear-axes) = Penjurit Tombak-Kapak (?)
Well, Pengawitan is the name for Melakan infantry equipped with special spear stated in hikayat Hang Tuah. (tombak pengawitan bersampak emas)...
The Bala Kauman... was the Half arab swordsmen, they are quite different unit since they are only wearing a swords, the "Ottoman Elite Infantry" are Aceh and Melayu's immitation for Ottoman Janissary... and I think that should be that way.... and because "Kauman means another thing" I'll use Arab instead...Quote:
e) Melayu Ottoman Elite Infantry (archer-scimitars) = Pahlawan Syamisir (?)
You said that in Babad Tanah Jawi, it was called Bala Kauman?
Thanks... veriviedQuote:
f) Melayu Heavy Archers (archer-scimitars) = Serdadu Pemanah
The word serdadu have connotation with Portuguese and scimitars were the influence from middle-east....maybe just used Pemanah or Laskar Pemanah, because the usage of scimitars here.
So we'll stick to the Hulubalang then... :wink:Quote:
g) Malakan Elite Mariners (javelin-axes) = Hulubalang Laot (?)
I am not sure, in Hikayat Hang Tuah, there were stated the word perapit, and in other chapter, penjajap
Verivied :beam:Quote:
h) Malakan Royal Swordsmen (longswords) = Bentera Istana (?)
Bentara
i) Aiyyah…..so many elephant….Anyway, for the elephant, I think only Melakan Sultan and faction heir and sometimes others royal family members (not all) used elephant, that was: Melayu Royal War Elephants and it was called Gajah Kenaikan.
Too bad, the engines can't help in multiple bodyguard units... Maybe for that reason, I'll made recruitable bodyguards on cavalry available... but the default BG unit will be the Elephants....Quote:
Some of the royal members used horse, while the others used Palanquin.ie Paduka Tuan (Melakan Bendahara during reign of Sultan Mahmud Syah) fight Portuguese on the Palanquin, also Sultan Mahmad Syah II (last Johore Sultan from Melakan Sultan lineage) also has been kill on Palanquin. I don't think the commoners used elephant.
j) Melayu Noble Cav (lances-cavlswords) - Pegawai dan Pertuanan. I think this unit can be made as recruitable general unit
k) For Acheh, the nobles were called Ulèë Balang. Which unit suited them? Acheh Royal Horsemen or Acehnese Honorary Guards?
The noble cavalry will have their BG version maybe....
and acehnese Honorary guards will go as "Sahabat Istana" , because Ulee Balang represent broader nobility, and those "Sahabat Istana" are actually palace guardsmen....
Oh yeah, I forgot to include those unit:
- Peusangan Askar / Acehnese Cadet Shock Troopers (wielding large two handed sword)
ok, prepare for mind boggling post! Hopefully this is final. because I don't found anything to add anymore:dizzy2:
Local name(English name)[weapon]
wang tani (Civilian) [golok]
Wado (Sundanese watchmen) [golok]
Pajurit Tumbak (Sundanese Spearmen) [underarm spear]
Pajurit Pamanah (Sundanese Archer) [bamboo bow]
Pajurit Golok (Sundanese Shocktrooper) [golok]
Pajurit Pĕdang (Sundanese Swordsman)[Sword]
Jawara (Sundanese Heavy shocktrooper) [golok]
Bayangkara (Sundanese Elite Watchmen) [underarm spear+javelin]
Pamanah (Sundanese Elite Archer) [bamboo war bow+golok]
Pamarang (Sundanese Elite Swordsmen) [sword]
*Pajurit Angklung (Sundanese Music Corps)[WAR MUSIC!] *don't laugh,its historical!*
Balamati Pamanah (Sundanese Royal Archer) [bamboo war bow+golok]
Balamati Pamarang (Sundanese Royal Swordsman) [swords]
Balamati Kujang Jago (Sundanese Royal Bladesman) [kujang jago]
Balamati Tumpak Kuda (Sundanese Royal Cavalry) [javelin+spear]
Kasatrya Pamanah Puragabaya (Sundanese Warrior-Priest Archer)[Bamboo war bow+dual wield golok]
Kasatrya Pamarang Puragabaya (Sundanese Warrior-Priest Swordsman)[dual wield sword]
Kasatrya Kuda Puragabaya (Sundanese Warrior-Priest Cavalry)[kujang pangarak+ dual wield sword]
Pamuk (Sundanese Hero)[longsword+bamboo warbow]
Kareta Kuda (Sundanese Chariot)[one man with bamboo warbow, one man with spear, one driver]
#Pajurit Gajah Siliwangi (Sundanese Elephant Bodyguard) [spear+javelin]
regional:
Bandrang Keraton(Cirebonan Spearmen)[two handed spear]
Pamanah Gerak Cepat Surosowan(Surosuwan elite Archer)[bamboo warbow]
Pasukan Gerak Cepat Surosowan(Surosowan elite spearmen)[twohanded spear]
Pamarang Gerak Cepat Surosowan(Surosowan Elite Swordsman)[poisoned golok]
Jawara Ciomas (Ciomas Fighter)[poisoned golok]
Pajurit Kuda Windu (Windu Cavalry) [spear+javelin]
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
PS:I know that Gerak Cepat sound silly(myself always laugh when hear it):laugh4::sweatdrop: but its historical. some say it is the special forces that open Pajajaran mighty gate.
PS:Banten golok was more lethal than Priangan Golok and Pesisir Golok, because it use poison during making process.
PS:# Bodyguard unit
PS(again): who's Ikazz?
PS(I think to many PS here): Pajajaran unit at forumotion haven't updated.
Oh I see. In Hikayat Hang Tuah, there were mention the word Hamba Tebusan, Hamba Sahaya, Hamba Raja and Budak Raja to describe the slave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
I have found that in the letter of Acheh's Sultan Iskandar Muda to England's King James I stated that His Majesty has very ornamented elephants and hundreds of war elephant (gajah perang):Quote:
Melayu-Sriwj Forest Worker Elephants (elephant-javelin)
Melayu Royal War Elephants (elephant archers)
Melayu Iron-Clad War Elephants (elephant-javelin)
ialah raja yang karunia Allah Ta‘ala mengempukan gajah berpakaian mas bepermata belazuardi dan beratus-ratus gajah daripada gajah perang yang berbeluhan besi dan behalap gading besi malila dan berkaus besi dan tembaga;
he is the king granted by God the possession of elephants caparisoned in gold studded with jewels and lapis-lazuli, and hundreds of elephants for use in war with steel-framed howdahs, their tusks sheathed and tipped in steel and their feet shod in steel and copper;
Ikazz is Juragan Bata, sonic's historical contact I think....
and I will definitely try to reduce some of it :wall: that was tad too many.... the similar units (with only little differences in either weaponary or battle usage) could be merged...
Speak in english!!!!!! no indonesian!Quote:
Originally Posted by intifadanyz
~Jirisys (mshla hambaraa nunvbas lfies plsea csokles:clown:)
Correction, that was malayan.... well, Indonesian and Malayan language are quite similar, but with such critical difference that will made misunderstanding quite easy to occur...
BTW, how's my request of uncarpeted Asian elephant skin? did you have put that? we should look at the model (apply that to the vanilla models)... so we can give about the details of their anatomy.. :beam:
@All : Please speak in english, except when quoting textual evidence... we can go in the Mod discussion thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...tara-Total-War if we sorely need to talk something in Indo Malayan language.... (so no one will bang their head because of our mumblings)
Well i have uncarpeted it but i can't find it now... it seems i forgot to organize the folders and i can't remember the name... so it's all a mess... plus i had a long homework this weekend and a sports event on saturday... so i have been very busy (with the dancing practice for the event and all that stuff)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
Anyway... i thank you nagged them, but... that... didn't quite... made me... understand what he said:clown:
~Jirisys (daancing... yeah!:clown:)
Here a list of Malay's names:
Male Names:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Female Names:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Inherited Malay Titles (or surname)
Usually Malay don’t have surname. Their name are base on (given name) Bin (or Binti for female) (name of his / her father). eg: Ali Bin Abu / Fatimah Binti Said : Ali and Fatimah are given names, while Abu and Said are their fathers.
However, Malay has inherited titles (like Pangeran in Brunei and Indonesia) which are inherited through one’s descendant.
Royal title:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Noble title:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
So, one’s name can be like this: Raja Ali / Tun Zainal Abidin / Tunku Ismail / Wan Ahmad (titles come first, followed by one’s name) and the titles are inherited by the descendant (like surname)
Hmm, can RTW engine implement this? (Surnames come first, followed by names)
Office titles
Office titles were awarded after few years in office and they are non-hereditary. Usually, after a noble get a title, he was called by the title name to address him (like someone who changes his name).
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I Think in RTW engine, name cannot be changed. But it can be added using epithet. In EB, I have found that they are using epithet in export_VnVs.text files for Hayasdan, Pahlava and SPQR.
So, for example, it will become like this:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
we (mostly Sonic), actually plan to use offices as title, such as "Sultan of Malaka", "Sultan of Johor", "Sultan of Banten" (given the condition that the character govern at that specific Region(s) for quite some time, was a muslim, and no other one get the title. Of course, Hindu (and possibly Christian) characters, got the eqivalent "Raja Malaka", "Raja Banten".... that was quite easy ancillaries....
"Sultan offices" ancillaries will be granted in condition that the character stay there for 12 turns and had "Zoroastrian (actually modded in text to shown as muslim)" as his traits. If he didn't have minimal Zoroastrian 1 trait, the "Raja offices" will be given instead....
just like the lordship and satrapdom found in some certain mods....
Well, by using ancillaries, you can extend "Sultan Office" to other offices...like the 4 major offices of Bendahara (Prime Minister), Laksamana (Lord Admiral), Temenggung (Inspector General of Police) and Penghulu Bendahari (Minister of Finance).... I know that modding ancillaries is easier than modding traits....Well, if you all cannot make the titles come later and change character's name, we have to make the character name like "Tun Ali Datuk Paduka Raja" from the start...
And, for your information, not all head of province get Sultan title. The title of head of province under a subjugation of bigger empire can be Penghulu (for small settlement) (like Tun Perak appointed as Penghulu of Kelang before promoted as Bendahara); or Mandulika / Mendelika (Governor, govern bigger settlement) and lastly, Raja (king, govern a state).
In Sejarah Melayu, it was stated that the ousted Prince of Melaka, Raja Muhammad Syah (Son of Sultan Mansur Syah, ousted because kill a commoner), appointed as Raja Pahang, not Sultan of Pahang (Pahang at that time was vassal of Melaka). Terengganu had a special title for her governor, Megat Terengganu.
The Sultan title can be with condition; Raja of a province has enough power to declaring independent from its protector. Then, he can claim he is the Sultan (of that province / state). It can be done trough peaceful way, or forceful way. These were the case:
a) When last Sultan of Melaka pass away, Melakan Empire splited to two. The 1st Prince, Sultan Muzaffar Syah appointed as Sultan of Perak, and the remaining south empire ruled by 2nd Prince, Sultan Alauddin Riayat Syah (II) (1st Sultan of Johor). Pahang was still as the vassal of Johor, and the head of state still called Raja. (Peaceful way).
b) During the reign of Sultan Abdul Jalil IV (Sultan Johor), Bendahara was granted Pahang as their personal fief. They are also known as "Raja Bendahara" for their status as the rulers of the vassal state of Pahang. Pahang was the vassal of Johore Sultanate. Tun Mutahir, Bendahara Seri Maharaja, Raja Bendahara Pahang V (1847-1863). He is the last reigning Raja Bendahara of Pahang. He was ousted by his brother Wan Ahmad who was later proclaimed as Sultan of Pahang after the dismemberment of the Johore Empire. (Forceful way)
c) Raja Lumu, the son of Bugis Chief, Daeng Celak, govern the Selangor area at the height of Bugis influence in Malay peninsula. He originally met with opposition from the Sultans of Perak and Johor, as well as from the Dutch, but eventually managed to consolidate his position as sovereign. By 1770, Sultan Muhammad of Perak was forced to recognize Raja Lumu as Sultan of Selangor (he brought warships to Perak) and force Sultan of Perak to give insignia of Malay royalty and made installation ceremony as Sultan of Selangor. Then he changed his name to Sultan Salehuddin Syah. (Forceful way)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
Well, it is not that the King get the Sultan title because he is more Islamic than the other......
hoo... then what about the possibility of hindu FM got "Sultan" title..... seems too weird.... (allready mentioned that we'll use floating religion system)
No no Hindu's not get Sultan titles.... only Muslim's Sultan of Melaka, Sultan of Acheh.... and no Sultan of Pahang..... or Sultan of Johor titles can be awarded if there is Sultan of Melaka already.... existed.
and what abot the title of Raja? or Maharaja...
I remember something about Seri Prameswara Dewa Syah (hindu king of malaka inserted in the line of Muslims), Maharaja Baladewa Iskandar Intan Syah (hindu king of palembang of muslim parents and his son later going (forced by the people's assembly) back to muslim... but he was definitely hindu... Not to mention the (often neglected, or actually... discounted from history and labelled as rebel by muslim historian because of his un-islamic act"... Prabu Aryo Penangsang of Demak "Sultanate" (he was actually hindu)
Well, in Sejarah Melayu, "Seri Parameswara Dewa Syah" is not mentioned. Historian associated Seri Parameswara Dewa Syah with Raja Ibrahim, and the religion was Hindu. the Sejarah Melayu mentioned this:
Setelah itu maka anakanda baginda, Raja Ibrahim kerajaan menggantikan ayahanda baginda, gelar baginda Sultan Abu Syahid...
Well, interesting...some contradiction with historian...
Hindu King = Raja /Maharaja (clearly)
Islam King = Sultan (the only head of an empire, not his vassal)
Raja = Islam King that become governor of a vassal state (only a vassal of Melaka get Sultan title: Siak.... The others, like Pahang, Singapura, Terengganu = Raja (Megat for Terengganu)...if the head of Faction used Sultan (Muslim only), it is mean the Faction is not a vassal of anyone...it is independent....
For Siak,it was a special case...Siak was client kingdom of Melaka, already have it's Sultan before submit to Melaka.
So, in this game, who is Sultan?
a) Muslim, and
b) Faction Leader of Melaka and Acheh (other factions used Sultan besides these 2 in this game?), not a family member / general who govern a city.
Well, a rebelling Muslim family member and become governor of the rebelling province can use Sultan.
but as far as offices are concerned, Sultan of Aceh actually had several lesser sultans with him, Sultan of Deli, Sultan of Siak, Sultan of Marrangi... all are Aceh's subordinate, and relatives...
yeah, muslim historian (no muslim bashing intended), almost always downplays the "murtadin" rulers of a previously muslim empire... they are usually mentioned as bad and tyrant kings (even when outside sources prove otherwise), if still recognized as leader... or wrote them as rebel ruler (which was quite illogical, since Aryo Penangsang was actually Sultan Trenggana's Nephew, and direct descendant of Raden Patah... he was more legitimate ruler than Joko Tingkir, who was Sultan's son in law). If not because another historian's writings (taken from Bali "Wong Majapahit" scrolls)....
actually Raja or Maharaja is not always tied with Hindu.
How about "Sri Paduka Maharaja" or "Sri Prabu" or "Ratu" (not Indonesian Ratu).
and Cutewolf, as an orthodox muslim. I doubt that "biased" historian was real muslim.
that was the fact of several hindu rulers, who recorded as rebel, instead of legitimate rulers by muslim sources, where hindu and or european sources said that was legitimate rulers... oh yeah, those "biased" historian was really muslim... (no religious offense intended), look at hikayat wali songo then...Quote:
Originally Posted by plutoboyz
EDIT : they did wrote that there was hindu kings or rulers as sucessor to muslim rulers... but they always stressed them as either tyrant, incompetent, or rebellious rulers... we must admit that something must be going wrong... (did you believe that all hindu rulers after some period of muslim rule eastablishments... all are tyrant and incompetent?)
I mean they are muslim who do not learn Islam from Quran. propaganda also play some role on spreading religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
and also, ancient historian have their own agenda. example; the greeks and the word "barbarian"
and I can't judge whether they are Evil or Good. I never live during their reign.
ok, ok... forget about some lengthy religious debate, let's going back to the titles and offices discussion.... what did you suggest if your muslim sultan have a heir who was a hindu? (put aside made anyone else as heir, killing him, or declare him as outlaw, we need to think of the offices name after some peaceful religion shift....)Quote:
Originally Posted by plutoboyz
I not really sure how Sultanate of Acheh works, but in Malaysia it was like that. Even until now the King of Perlis is known by Raja Perlis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
"The State of Perlis (Negeri Perlis Indera Kayangan) has its origins during the period of Thai rule over the northern Malay states. The Thais followed a classic "divide and rule policy" and divided the state of Kedah into sevelal region, namely Perlis, Kubang Pasu, Setul and Kedah. Perlis, a region within Kedah, became a separate polity under the former Sultan Zia ud-din Mukarram Shah II, after he abdicated in 1803.
Sultan Zia's daughter married a Syed of Arabic descent, named Abu Bakar Harun Jamal' ul-Lail. The latter had been Penghulu, or subordinate chief, of Arau since 1797. His son and successor, Syed Husain received promotion to Raja of Perlis Indera Kayangan in 1843 by Thai's king, after helping the Thais to suppress a revolt by the Raja of Ligor. Raja of Perlis never installed properly as a Sultan, until now."
I am not sure about that, but Sejarah Melayu or Hikayat Hang Tuah never mention about "Murtadin" as bad and tryrant kings. Even Hikayat Hang Tuah praised the Hindu's King of Vijayanagar and Nagapattinam as benevolent and justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
That's what I am trying to say in my #137 and #139 posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by plutoboyz
I have suggest many example in my #137 and #139 posts. He can become bendahara, temenggung, laksamana (even laksamana come from the word Laksmi, Hindu Goddess), and Penghulu Bendahari, or just give him Raja or Maharaja.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
hmm... Raja or Maharaja. because Raja is already adopted as Indonesian and Malay language. some Muslim Ruler also use Raja or Maharaja.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
so, I think (because of limitation, and yeah, not only aceh, but some other sultanates have sultan of sultan titles, such as Sultan of Belitong are vassal of the Sultan of Palembang) we should made this generalization this much....
Faction leader got:
- if he was a muslim : Sultan (and taken as ephitet)
- If he was not a muslim : Maharaja (and taken as ephitet)
Governmental offices:
- if he was a muslim, and rule the historical Sultanate seat : Sultan Bla-bla-bla (offices only, not ephitet)
- if he was a muslim, but not rule the historical Sultanate seat : Raja Bla-bla-bla
- if he wasn't a muslim : Raja Bla-bla-bla...
How about the Hindu one?
got Raja-Maharaja.... because all the Christian (puppet) rulers are taken hindu-derived titles and offices too...
Well, in Hikayat Hang Tuah, Letter of Sultan Iskandar Thani to Prince Frederik Hendrik of Orange, Hikayat Amir Hamzah it was called Kuda Perang, while in Hikayat Acheh, Bustan as-Salatin and Hikayat Muhamad Hanafiah, it was called Kuda Peperangan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
well, so Melaka or Aceh really didn't have mounted archer, put aside some turkish soldiers briefly employed in Aceh?
Hmm mounted archer... well in Hikayat Hang Tuah it stated that the horse users were using pedang or lembing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
May I know why you come with this conclusion? For Turkish soldier, I am not sure, but in Hikayat Acheh it stated that the usage of Lasykar Ghori (form Ghorid, Afghanistan).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
In Hikayat Hang Tuah, it was stated that Melaka was buying Meriam and Bedil (cannon and cannon-ball) from Turki. But Turki name was not mention as Turki, It was mentioned as Rum (maybe from Saljuqian-e-Rum, the [Turkish Sultanate], but definitely not Rome [SPQR], and not Byzantine Rome :laugh4:). Hikayat Acheh also mention Rum, not Turki.
Hikayat Patani also mentioned Rum, and stated that a Rum Man named Abdul Samad assisted Patani in making cannon-ball.
Do you think when the word Turki come to history?
In Sejarah Melayu, it was stated the phrase Sidi Arab, (Sidi from the word Sayyidi [my lord]), an Arabian that really good in archery, but not mention that he was using Scimitar...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
For Acehnese Royal Horsemen (cavmaces), do you have the translation in Bahasa Acheh?
In letter of Sultan Iskandar Muda to King James I, letter of Sultan Iskandar Thani to Prince Frederik Hendrik of Orange and Letter of Sultanah Tajul Alam to King Charles II (all Acheh's Sultans) it was stated the special ornamented horses (kuda berpakaian mas bepermata belazuardi, berkaus mas dan suasa) but not named it.
In Syair Almarhum Sultan Abu Bakar: Koeda Beginda
In Hikayat Maharaja Mikrama: Kuda Genderaan
In Hikayat Acheh, Adat Raja Melayu and Sejarah Melayu: Kuda Kenaikan
Hmm, What do you think?
It was also stated Kuda Semberani and Kuda Tizi / Tezi, but that's not quite right, that were the names for type of breed of the horse...
of course we know that sultan of Rum, means turks, because if we go letter for letter, Jirisys might be confused :grin:
and it was more logic involved, I see CW not yet giving the gunpowder units, but here's the gunpowder units for Melayu:
- Gun Skirmishers (cheap gun infantry - remember that guns are actually easier to use than bows, they will be short ranged like skirmishers, and not too accurate, but cheap and widely available)
- Gun troopers the Regular Gunners
- Turkish gun troopers (regular gunners - on par with european gunners)
- Elite musketters (elite unit)
and if you ask about the turkish elite archer-swordsmen, you must remember that the Ottoman themself are gun producers, but they still use more traditional cavalry and infantry arm, especially Yeniceri units, to do most of their battle jobs. It was just a logic that most of the turkish soldiers "imported" will be gunners and gun crews, but Turkish (Rum) cavalry did mentioned, and they are most likely HA Spahis.
The turkish themself didn't use guns exstensively before the reform that introduce the Nizam army, much later...
In Sejarah Melayu, the gun user was called Pegawai Istinggar. Used by Sultanate of Johor after the fall of Melaka to face Portuguese. But I am not sure wheather they were skirmisher, regular or elite, but the word Pegawai have connotation with middle class soldier.
BTW, the Turkish soldier in Acheh were called by Tuskish names or Acheh names?
~Jirisys (You are not confused, do you?:clown:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
calling them "tentera rum" will cause confusion...
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:. Tentera Rum make me think about Sassanid and Rome era of conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic