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Nothingmore than that it is gothic, and written in the elder futhark runes, therefore probably made before or during the christianization of the goths. Found in Dahmsdorf. I first saw it on this wiki-page [Link], but I haven't found much more about it. I google-translated a german page, and it seemed like the Blade has been lost. There are pictures that claims to be the blade.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Here's anther two I've found
a sententia dicenda amovebo, ad ulciscendi tempora reservabo.
I will put aside while delivering my opinion, and reserve for a more fitting opportunity of revenge.
- Marcus Tullus Cicero, On the Consular Provinces (I)
nunquam deos ipsos admouere nocentibus manus; satis esse, si occasione ulciscendi laesos arment
The gods never lay hands themselves on the guilty; it is enough when they arm the injured with the opportunity for vengeance.
- Livy, The History of Rome (V,XI)
Things are really coming along. Here's an update on the older quotes foe which we still need more accurate citations:
Of course, the authenticity of most of these is not in question, but we still want to provide accurate citations if we can, and even the most well-known quotes can surprise you in the original.Code:{Author_101} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_101} Iniqua nunquam regna perpetuo manent - Stern masters do not reign long.
{Author_102} Aeschylus
{Quote_102} In war, truth is the first casualty
{Author_106} Homer
{Quote_106} The blade itself incites to violence.
{Author_107} Albius Tibullus
{Quote_107} Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made.
{Author_108} Hannibal Barca at the age of 9, ca. 238 BC
{Quote_108} I swear so soon as age will permit I will use fire and steel to arrest the destiny of Rome.
{Author_111} Publius Ovidius Naso
{Quote_111} The gods favour the bold.
{Author_112} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_112} Great empires are not maintained by timidity.
{Author_114} Dionysius of Halicarnassus
{Quote_114} Only the brave enjoy noble and glorious deaths.
{Author_120} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_120} Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis We do not fear death, but the thought of death.
{Author_121} Euripides
{Quote_121} Danger gleams like sunshine to a brave man's eyes.
{Author_122} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_122} Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them.
{Author_127} Marcus Tullius Cicero
{Quote_127} Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit - Nothing is so well fortified that money cannot capture it.
{Author_128} Polybius, The Histories, describing the Battle of Telamon
{Quote_128} The Romans were terrified by the fine order of the Celtic host, and the dreadful din [of] the whole army were shouting their war cries. Terrifying too were the naked warriors in front, all in the prime of life and finely built men...
{Author_129} Polybius, The Histories, after writing about the betrayal of Epeiros by Gallic mercenaries
{Quote_129} I thought it necessary to speak at some length on this subject in order to show how foolish the Epirots were, and that no people, if wise, should ever admit a garrison stronger than their own forces, especially if composed of barbarians.
{Author_131} Tacitus, Annals of Imperial Rome
{Quote_131} Barbarians: Greek Historians ignore them, reserving their admiration for Greece only. We Romans too, have underestimated them, since in our devotion to antiquity we neglect modern history
{Author_132} Thucydides
{Quote_132} Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.
{Author_134} Thucydides, quoting the Athenian envoy to the neutral Melians, explaining why they should submit without fighting
{Quote_134} Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must.
{Author_135} Marcus Tullius Cicero
{Quote_135} The sinews of war are infinite money.
{Author_137} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_137} The proper arts of a general are judgement and prudence.
{Author_138} Hannibal, asked by Antiochus if his richly ornamented army was enough to defeat the Romans at Magnesia, ca. 189BC
{Quote_138} Indeed they will be more than enough, even though the Romans are the greediest nation on earth!
{Author_141} Athenogoras of Syracuse
{Quote_141} If a man does not strike first, he will be the first struck.
{Author_144} Polybius, The Histories, On the Mercenaries War
{Quote_144} This war had lasted for three years and four months, and it far excelled all wars we know of in cruelty and defiance of principle.
{Author_148} Terence
{Quote_148} Auribus teneō lupum - I am holding the wolf by his ears.
{Author_28} Thucydides
{Quote_28} A collision at sea can ruin your entire day.
{Author_30} Homer
{Quote_30} The outcome of the war is in our hands; the outcome of words is in the council.
{Author_31} Euripides
{Quote_31} Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
{Author_32} Homer
{Quote_32} Ye gods, what dastards would our host command? Swept to the war, the lumber of the land.
{Author_40} Cn. Pompeius Magnus: Plutarch's Life of Pompey
{Quote_40} Stop quoting law. We carry Swords.
{Author_41} Menander
{Quote_41} The man who runs away will fight again.
{Author_43} Thucydides: The Corcryaen speech to the Athenians
{Quote_43} It is the one with the least regrets over concessions to the enemy who will continue in the greatest security.
{Author_44} Thucydides: Perikles' Funeral Oration
{Quote_44} Even for those who were worse in other ways it is right that first place be given to valor against enemies.
{Author_45} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_45} In war there is no prize for runner-up.
{Author_46} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_46} In war, when a commander becomes so bereft of reason and perspective that he fails to understand the dependence of arms on Divine guidance, he no longer deserves victory.
{Author_51} Hieronymus of Cardia
{Quote_51} The Celts rushed on their enemy with the fury of a wild beast. Hacked with swords and axes, and pierced with missles, their rage died only with life itself. Some even plucked out the weapons that struck them and hurled them back at the Greeks.
{Author_57} Polybius
{Quote_57} A good general not only sees the way to victory, he also knows when victory is impossible.
{Author_58} Polybius
{Quote_58} In war we must always leave room for strokes of fortune, and accidents that cannot be foreseen.
{Author_59} Publilius Syrus
{Quote_59} Pardon one offence and you encourage the commission of many.
{Author_6} Publilius Syrus
{Quote_6} We should provide in peace what we need in war.
{Author_62} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_62} Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.
{Author_64} Publilius Syrus
{Quote_64} He is best secure from dangers who is on his guard even when he seems safe.
{Author_66} Silius Italicus
{Quote_66} In war we must be speedy.
{Author_67} Socrates
{Quote_67} A disorderly mob is no more an army than a heap of building materials is a house.
{Author_68} Sophacles
{Quote_68} Quick decisions are unsafe decisions.
{Author_69} Publius Statius
{Quote_69} The cruelty of war makes for peace.
{Author_7} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_7} Great empires are not maintained by timidity.
{Author_71} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_71} Even the bravest are frightened by sudden terrors.
{Author_73} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_73} A bad peace is even worse than war.
{Author_74} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_74} The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.
{Author_75} Thucydides
{Quote_75} War is not so much a matter of weapons as of money.
{Author_76} Publius Flavius Vegetius
{Quote_76} An ambush, if discovered and promptly surrounded, will repay the intended mischief with interest.
{Author_77} Hannibal Barca, addressing Phormio's lecture on leadership
{Quote_77} I have seen during my life many an old fool; but this one beats them all.
{Author_78} Publius Flavius Vegetius
{Quote_78} Few men are born brave; many become so through training and force of discipline.
{Author_79} Publius Flavius Vegetius
{Quote_79} A general is not easily overcome who can form a true judgement of his own and the enemy's forces.
{Author_82} Xenophon
{Quote_82} When one side goes against the enemy with the gods' gift of stronger morale, then their adversaries, as a rule, cannot withstand them.
{Author_87} Aeschylus
{Quote_87} ...now in place of the young men urns and ashes are carried home to houses of the fighters.
{Author_88} Demosthenes
{Quote_88} Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master.
{Author_9} Gaius Julius Caesar
{Quote_9} In war important events result from trivial causes.
{Author_97} Euripides
{Quote_97} Courage may be taught as a child is taught to speak.
{Author_98} Publius Flavius Vegetius
{Quote_98} Valour is superior to numbers.
{Author_99} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_99} Valour is the contempt of death and pain.
I recall that some of them have already been provided with correct citation. I put the correct citation for the Plato quote and the Homer one about men and lions somewhere in this thread (I looked it up, it's actually on page 1 ~;)).
Oops. Sorry, I missed those. Will get them in.
EDIT: Yes I see you did cite several quotes. I've got them now.
I know you have asked for quotes from around EB time-frame, but in the current list for 1.2 there are quotes from "Timon of Athens" and "Julius Caesar", so would any more Shakespearean quotes be accepted (of course, from relevant plays)?
No, I have taken the Shakespeare, Sun Tzu and Confucius out. There's more than enough good, topical and contemporary sources: we have barely touched Greek drama (only a few quotes from Euripides), and there are the Hellenistic poets as well, which no-one has gotten to yet. And there's lots more in Polybius, and no-one has even touched Vergil yet (unbelievable!) My goal is at least 300 quotes, roughly 200 of which will be new for EB2.
Quote:
Urbs antiqua fuit, Tyrii tenuere coloni, Karthago, Italiam contra Tiberinaque longe ostia , dives opum studiisque asperrima belli;
There was an ancient city, held by Tyre as a colony; Carthage, opposite from afar to Italy and the Tiber, it's door; rich, ruthless and eager in war.
P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, 1.12
Someone please check the latin, original latin has no reference to the lines.
expediam et primae revocabo exordia pugnae
These are my theme, and how the war began, And how concluded by the godlike man
- Vergillius Maro, Publius Vergilius Maro, The Aeneid (VII , XL)
'Tis a shame, my knowledge of The Bard's 'Antony and Cleopatra' shall go to waste. I think I better get cracking on that Classical and Hellenistic literature then! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by oudysseos
I have updated the first post with a list of the old quotes that still need to be cited.
I'd also like to encourage anyone who is interested to look into;
Ennius (there's more):
Quote:
Fortune favours the bold.
Fortibus est fortuna viris data.
Annals, Book 7
This is an exercise for the class:Quote:
On the tradtions and heros of ancient times stands firm the Roman state
Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque
"Annals", Book 18
Virgil (the translations on Perseus are pretty old: I'd like something more contemporary)Quote:
De bello Hannibalico
...postquam Discordia taetra
Belli ferratos postes portasque refregit.
Pellitur e medio sapientia, vi geritur res,
Spernitur orator bonus, horridus miles amatur.
Haut doctis dictis certantes sed maledictis
Miscent inter sese inimicitiam a~itantes.
Non ex iure manu consertum sed magis ferro
Rem repetunt, regnumque petunt, vadunt solida vi.
Quote:
Audacibus annue coeptis
Look with favor upon a bold beginning.
Virgil, Georgics, Book I, line 40
Quote:
Equo ne credite, Teucri. quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentis.
Do not trust the horse, Trojans. Whatever it is, I fear the Grecians, even bearing gifts.
Virgil, Aeneid, Book II, line 48
TheocritusQuote:
Audentes fortuna iuvat
Fortune favours the brave.
Virgil, Aeneid, Book X, line 284
Callimachus
Apollonius if Rhodes
Arrian ( particularly Indica )
Appian
Dionysius of Halicarnassus
Here's some Menander:
Quote:
Whom the gods love dies young.
The Double Deceiver, fragment 125
Quote:
The man who runs may fight again.
Monostikoi (Single Lines)
Quote:
At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool.
Those Offered for Sale, fragment 421
There's still lots left in Cicero, Livy, Polybius, Herodotus, and Thucydides:Quote:
We live, not as we wish to, but as we can.
Lady of Andros, fragment 50
Quote:
Inter arma enim silent leges
Law stands mute in the midst of arms.
Cicero, Pro Milone
Quote:
A war is never undertaken by the ideal State, except in defense of its honor or its safety.
Cicero, De Re Publica, Book 3, Chapter 23
Quote:
The Scythians take cannabis seed, creep in under the felts, and throw it on the red-hot stones. It smolders and sends up such billows of steam-smoke that no Greek vapor bath can surpass it. The Scythians howl with joy in these vapor-baths, which serve them instead of bathing, for they never wash their bodies with water.
Herodotus, Book 4, Ch. 74
Quote:
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances.
Herodotus,Book 7, Ch. 49
Quote:
Potius sero quam numquam.
Better late than never.
Livy, IV. 23
Quote:
There is always more spirit in attack than in defense.
Livy, XXVIII. 44
Quote:
When one is deprived of ones liberty, one is right in blaming not so much the man who puts the shackles on as the one who had the power to prevent him, but did not use it.
Thucydides, Book I, 69
Quote:
It is from the greatest dangers that the greatest glory is to be won.
Thucydides, Book I, 144
But MORE THAN ANYTHING I'd like someone to find good translations of the Drakht-i Asurig and Ayadgar-i Zareran, and indeed anything that's topical and not Latin or Greek!Quote:
The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.
Thucydides,Book II, 40
I think this must be it. The translation differs a fair bit though.Quote:
Originally Posted by oudysseos
In my copy (Norton Critical edition) it reads;
No, each of us must exercise what power he really thinks he can, and we know and you know that in the human real, justice is enforced only among those who can be equally constrained by it, and that those who have power use it, while the weak make compromises.
Thucydides, The Peloponnesian War, Book 5, 89
Same edition as the above post. (Sorry about the double post.)Quote:
{Author_43} Thucydides: The Corcryaen speech to the Athenians
{Quote_43} It is the one with the least regrets over concessions to the enemy who will continue in the greatest security.
This one is:Book 1, 34
Hope that helps.
I gave this a try. I took "a~itantes" as "agitantes" because it seemed to fit the sense of the passage. My interpretations may be off.Quote:
Originally Posted by oudysseos
Concerning the Hannibalic War
... after the foul Discord
Of war broke open the iron-plated doors and gates.
Wisdom was pushed out from the middle, the republic carried by strength,
The good orator spurned, the horrid soldier loved.
Hardly debating the learned with sayings but with insults,
They mix enmity between themselves, agitating.
Not being fought by hand out of law but more by sword,
They take back the republic, and make for monarchy, they advance by solid force.
I thought I might share some of my favorite quotes with you guys. I realize some of them are a bit long, but it shouldn't be too hard to cut them down to size.
War—I know it well, and the butchery of men.
--Hector taunting Ajax, Illiad 7.275
For if one should propose to all men a choice, bidding them select the best customs from all the customs that there are, each race of men, after examining them all, would select those of their own people; thus all think that their own customs are by far the best: and so it is not likely that any but a madman would joke about such things.
--Herodotus 3.38
In the period of life, short as it is, no man. . . is made by nature so happy, that there will not come to him many times, and not once only, the desire to be dead rather than to live; for misfortunes falling upon us and diseases disturbing our happiness make the time of life, though short indeed, seem long: thus, since life is full of trouble, death has become the most acceptable refuge for man; and God, having given him to taste of the sweetness of life, is discovered in this matter to be full of jealousy.
--Xerxes surveying his grand army, Herodotus 7.46
They are swift to follow up a success, and slow to recoil from a reverse. Their bodies they spend ungrudgingly in their country's cause; their intellect they jealously husband to be employed in her service. A scheme unexecuted is with them a positive loss, a successful enterprise a comparative failure. The deficiency created by the miscarriage of an undertaking is soon filled up by fresh hopes; for they alone are enabled to call a thing hoped for a thing got, by the speed with which they act upon their resolutions. Thus they toil on in trouble and danger all the days of their lives, with little opportunity for enjoying, being ever engaged in getting: their only idea of a holiday is to do what the occasion demands, and to them laborious occupation is less of a misfortune than the peace of a quiet life.
--The Corinthians warn the Spartans against the Athenians, Thucydides 1.70
The sufferings which revolution entailed upon the cities were many and terrible, such as have occurred and always will occur, as long as the nature of mankind remains the same.
--Thucydides 3.82
It was manifest also that whenever a man conferred any benefit on Cyrus or did him any harm, he always sought to outdo him; in fact, some people used to report it as a prayer of his that he might live long enough to outdo both those who benefited and those who injured him, returning like for like. --Xenophon, Anabasis 1.9.11
But it is a peculiarity of the Roman people as a whole to treat everything as a question of main strength; to consider that they must of course accomplish whatever they have proposed to themselves; and that nothing is impossible that they have once determined upon. The result of such self-confidence is that in many things they do succeed, while in some few they conspicuously fail.
--Polybius, Book 1
I apologize as I cannot give proper citation without my copy of the work mentioned -it's a couple hundred miles away - my memory is not exact, and I don't know Latin and am worried using an internet translator would butcher this:
Livy records that when the Roman Senate was debating the punishment for the survivors of Cannae a senator gave a story about a battle in the First Punic War where the Romans had become divided and one wing encircled. A commander - not a consul I think - then asked for some volunteers to punch a hole through the Cathaginians to the endangered wing and gave this speech:
"Come, let us a die, and by our deaths save the surrounded legions!!" If anyone has a copy of Livy's work on the second Punic war I'm sure they could find it and give proper citation and name the right people involved.
Cuz seriously, it's a great quote.
Snite
I may be paraphrasing >.>Quote:
"I consider every good Barbarian to be Greek, and every bad Greek to be Barbarian"
Attributed to Alexander.
‘the glory of riches and appearance is fleeting and fragile, but to have prowess is something distinguished and everlasting.’
Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 1.4
‘It is a splendid thing to do well for the advantage of one’s commonwealth’.
Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 3.1
‘For, to kings, the good are more suspect than the wicked, and prowess in another is always a source of fear to them’.
Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 7.2
‘”Is it not better to die with prowess than to lose in disgrace a life which is pitiable and dishonourable, once you have become the plaything of the haughtiness of others?”’
Speech by Catiline in: Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 20.9
‘”Here, stretching before your eyes, lies that freedom which you have often craved, as well as riches, respect and glory!”’
Speech by Catiline in: Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 20.14
‘The community quaked at these measures, and the face of the city was altered.’
Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 31.1
‘”But, as for us, we seek neither command nor riches, which are the cause of all wars and struggles among mortals, but freedom, which no good man loses except along with his life’s breath.”’
Instructions of C. Manlius to Marcius Rex in: Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 33.4
‘”But, as for those who are endowed with some great command and spend their years at the zenith, all mortals know their deeds.”’
Speech by Caesar in: Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 51.12
‘”Do not think that it was by arms that our ancestors made the commonwealth great from being small. If that were so, we would now be seeing it at its finest by far, since we have greater supply of allies and citizens, and of arms and horses besides, than our ancestors did. But it was other things which made them great, and which we no longer have’.
Speech of Cato the younger in: Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 52.19
‘After Catiline saw that he was shut in by the mountains and enemy forces, that affairs in the city were against him, and that there was no hope of either flight or reinforcements, he deemed the best thing to do in the circumstances would be to test the fortunes of war’.
Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 57.5
‘”I advise you to be courageous and prepared in spirit, and, when you enter the battle, to remember that in your hands you carry riches, honour and glory, to say nothing of freedom and the fatherland.”’
Speech of Catiline in: Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 58.8
‘He helped the flagging, summoned the fit to take over from the injured, made every provision, fought hard himself, and often struck the enemy: he performed simultaneously the duties of committed soldier and good commander.’
Catiline in: Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 60.4
‘In fact, from that entire force, no freeborn citizen was captured either in battle or in flight: they had no more spared their own lives than those of the enemy.’
Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 61.5
‘As for the many who had emerged from the camp for the purpose of viewing or plundering and were turning over the enemy corpses, some discovered a friend, others a guest or relative; likewise there were those who recognised their own personal antagonists. Thus, throughout the entire army, delight, sorrow, grief and joy were variously experienced.’
Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 61.8
‘Then, when the ground for their joy was certain, such a storm of applause began and was so often repeated that it was easily apparent that of all blessings none pleases a throng more than freedom’.
Livy, History of Rome, 33.32.4-10
‘[When] wars are announced, wisdom is driven from their midst, matters waged by force; the good speaker is shunned, the rude soldier loved.’
Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights, 20.10.4
‘The Gauls are exceedingly addicted with wine and fill themselves with wine brought by merchants, drinking it unmixed, and since they drink without moderation because of their craving for it, when they are drunken they fall into a stupor or a state of madness.’
Diodorus of Sicily, Universal History, 5.26.3
‘Meanwhile cause the barbarous business of warfare to be lulled to sleep over every land and sea.’
Lucretius, On the Nature of Things, 1.30
‘But never in those times did a single day consign to destruction many thousands of men marching beneath military standards; never did the boisterous billows of the ocean dash ships and sailors upon the rocks.’
Lucretius, On the Nature of Things, 5.999
‘All the sacred shrines of the gods had been filled by death with lifeless bodies, and all the temples of the celestials, which the sacristans had crammed with guests, were continually littered with corpses.’
Lucretius, On the Nature of Things, 6.1272
Here are a few quotes, some of which might be worthy of use. Sorry i only have translations. really sorry also if any of these have been mentioned before but i started using the search function to see if each one had been mentioned in turn but realised id be there for a few days to do them all because of the wait between searches. now these are up i can start gathering the rest. :book:
I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to the bible and stuff like that, but I did some quick research into which parts of the Jewish / Christian religious texts are from the right time period. The books 1 & 2 Maccabees are from about 167-160 BC and concern the Maccabean revolt against the Seleucids.Quote:
Originally Posted by John-117
I went through them and found some extracts. Some seem really good for military stuff and there's a couple of funny ones too. I like the one about the elephants and the mulberries.
Both books are Greek texts. Apparently one or both were originally in hebrew / aramaic but that version no longer survives. I'm no greek scholar (only ever learnt latin) so I have no idea whether the greek looks right - I have made a note of the ones where I'm not sure that I have extracted the right part of the verse in greek. Someone who knows greek will need to check them.
Sorry there's so many - but I tried to keep them all short and sweet. Enjoy.
καὶ διῆλθεν ἕως ἄκρων τῆς γῆς καὶ ἔλαβεν σκῦλα πλήθους ἐθνῶν. καὶ ἡσύχασεν ἡ γῆ ἐνώπιον αὐτοῦ, καὶ ὑψώθη, καὶ ἐπήρθη ἡ καρδία αὐτοῦ.
He advanced to the ends of the earth, and plundered many nations. When the earth became quiet before him, he was exalted, and his heart was lifted up.
1 Maccabees 1:3 [Concerning Alexander]
καὶ ἐπλάτυνεν δόξαν τῷ λαῷ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐνεδύσατο θώρακα ὡς γίγας καὶ συνεζώσατο τὰ σκεύη τὰ πολεμικὰ αὐτοῦ καὶ πολέμους συνεστήσατο σκεπάζων παρεμβολὴν ἐν ῥομφαίᾳ. καὶ ὡμοιώθη λέοντι ἐν τοῖς ἔργοις αὐτοῦ καὶ ὡς σκύμνος ἐρευγόμενος εἰς θήραν.
He extended the glory of his people. Like a giant he put on his breastplate; he girded on his armor of war and waged battles, protecting the host by his sword. He was like a lion in his deeds, like a lion's cub roaring for prey.
Judas Maccabeus
1 Maccabees 3:3-4
εἶπον τῷ Ιουδα Τί δυνησόμεθα ὀλιγοστοὶ ὄντες πολεμῆσαι πρὸς πλῆθος τοσοῦτο ἰσχυρόν; καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐκλελύμεθα ἀσιτοῦντες σήμερον.
"How can we, few as we are, fight against so great and strong a multitude? And we are faint, for we have eaten nothing today."
Jewish force to Judas Maccabeus before the Battle of Beth-Horon
1 Maccabees 3:17
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m not sure if I have the right part.)
Εὔκοπόν ἐστιν συγκλεισθῆναι πολλοὺς ἐν χερσὶν ὀλίγων, καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν διαφορὰ ἐναντίον τοῦ οὐρανοῦ σῴζειν ἐν πολλοῖς ἢ ἐν ὀλίγοις·
It is easy for many to be hemmed in by few, for in the sight of Heaven there is no difference between saving by many or by few.
1 Maccabees 3:18
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m not sure if I have the right part.)
Περιζώσασθε καὶ γίνεσθε εἰς υἱοὺς δυνατοὺς
"Gird yourselves and be valiant."
Judas Maccabeus to the Jewish army before the Battle of Emmaus
1 Maccabees 3:58
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m not sure if I have the right part.)
Μὴ φοβεῖσθε τὸ πλῆθος αὐτῶν καὶ τὸ ὅρμημα αὐτῶν μὴ δειλωθῆτε·
"Do not fear their numbers or be afraid when they charge"
Judas Maccabeus to the Jewish army before the Battle of Emmaus
1 Maccabees 4:8
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m not sure if I have the right part.)
καὶ συνετρίβησαν τὰ ἔθνη καὶ ἔφυγον εἰς τὸ πεδίον, οἱ δὲ ἔσχατοι πάντες ἔπεσον ἐν ῥομφαίᾳ.
The Gentiles were crushed and fled into the plain, and all those in the rear fell by the sword.
1 Maccabees 4:14-15
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m not sure if I have the right part.)
καὶ ἐγένετο ἑωθινῇ ἦραν τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτῶν καὶ ἰδοὺ λαὸς πολύς, οὗ οὐκ ἦν ἀριθμός, αἴροντες κλίμακας καὶ μηχανὰς καταλαβέσθαι τὸ ὀχύρωμα καὶ ἐπολέμουν αὐτούς.
At dawn they looked up, and behold, a large company, that could not be counted, carrying ladders and engines of war to capture the stronghold, and attacking the Jews within.
1 Maccabees 5:30
καὶ τοῖς ἐλέφασιν ἔδειξαν αἷμα σταφυλῆς καὶ μόρων τοῦ παραστῆσαι αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸν πόλεμον.
They showed the elephants the juice of grapes and mulberries, to arouse them for battle.
Seleucid army at the Battle of Beth-Zechariah
1 Maccabees 6:34
καὶ πύργοι ξύλινοι ἐπ' αὐτοὺς ὀχυροὶ σκεπαζόμενοι ἐφ' ἑκάστου θηρίου ἐζωσμένοι ἐπ' αὐτοῦ μηχαναῖς, καὶ ἐφ' ἑκάστου ἄνδρες δυνάμεως τέσσαρες οἱ πολεμοῦντες ἐπ' αὐτοῖς καὶ ὁ Ἰνδὸς αὐτοῦ.
And upon the elephants were wooden towers, strong and covered; they were fastened upon each beast by special harness, and upon each were four armed men who fought from there, and also its Indian driver.
Seleucid army at the Battle of Beth-Zechariah
1 Maccabees 6:37
ὡς δὲ ἔστιλβεν ὁ ἥλιος ἐπὶ τὰς χρυσᾶς καὶ χαλκᾶς ἀσπίδας, ἔστιλβεν τὰ ὄρη ἀπ' αὐτῶν καὶ κατηύγαζεν ὡς λαμπάδες πυρός.
When the sun shone upon the shields of gold and brass, the hills were ablaze with them and gleamed like flaming torches.
Seleucid army at the Battle of Beth-Zechariah
1 Maccabees 6:39
καὶ εἰσέδυ ὑπὸ τὸν ἐλέφαντα καὶ ὑπέθηκεν αὐτῷ καὶ ἀνεῖλεν αὐτόν, καὶ ἔπεσεν ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν ἐπάνω αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἀπέθανεν ἐκεῖ.
He got under the elephant, stabbed it from beneath, and killed it; but it fell to the ground upon him and he died.
Eleazar Avaran at the Battle of Beth-Zechariah
1 Maccabees 6:46
καὶ ἔστησεν ἐκεῖ βελοστάσεις καὶ μηχανὰς καὶ πυροβόλα καὶ λιθοβόλα καὶ σκορπίδια εἰς τὸ βάλλεσθαι βέλη καὶ σφενδόνας.
He set up siege towers, engines of war to throw fire and stones, machines to shoot arrows, and catapults.
Antiochus V Eupator at Jerusalem
1 Maccabees 6:51
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m not sure if I have the right part.)
Μὴ γένοιτο ποιῆσαι τὸ πρᾶγμα τοῦτο, φυγεῖν ἀπ' αὐτῶν, καὶ εἰ ἤγγικεν ὁ καιρὸς ἡμῶν, καὶ ἀποθάνωμεν ἐν ἀνδρείᾳ χάριν τῶν ἀδελφῶν ἡμῶν καὶ μὴ καταλίπωμεν αἰτίαν τῇ δόξῃ ἡμῶν.
"Far be it from us to do such a thing as to flee from them. If our time has come, let us die bravely for our brethren, and leave no cause to question our honour."
Judas Maccabeus to the Jewish army before the Battle of Elasa
1 Maccabees 9:10
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m not sure if I have the right part.)
καὶ ἐμερίσθη ἡ ἵππος εἰς δύο μέρη, καὶ οἱ σφενδονῆται καὶ οἱ τοξόται προεπορεύοντο τῆς δυνάμεως, καὶ οἱ πρωταγωνισταὶ πάντες οἱ δυνατοί, Βακχίδης δὲ ἦν ἐν τῷ δεξιῷ κέρατι.
The cavalry was divided into two companies, and the slingers and the archers went ahead of the army, as did all the chief warriors.
Seleucid army at the Battle of Elasa
1 Maccabees 9:11
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m not sure if I have the right part.)
ἐκ τῶν δύο μερῶν καὶ ἐφώνουν ταῖς σάλπιγξιν, καὶ ἐσάλπισαν οἱ παρὰ Ιουδου καὶ αὐτοὶ ταῖς σάλπιγξιν· καὶ ἐσαλεύθη ἡ γῆ ἀπὸ τῆς φωνῆς τῶν παρεμβολῶν, καὶ ἐγένετο ὁ πόλεμος συνημμένος ἀπὸ πρωίθεν ἕως ἑσπέρας.
Flanked by the two companies, the phalanx advanced to the sound of the trumpets; and the men with Judas also blew their trumpets. The earth was shaken by the noise of the armies, and the battle raged from morning till evening.
Battle of Elasa, 160 BC
1 Maccabees 9:12-13
(The quote is only part of the verse and I’m really not sure if I have the right part.)
ἰδοὺ γὰρ ὁ πόλεμος ἐξ ἐναντίας καὶ ἐξόπισθεν ἡμῶν, τὸ δὲ ὕδωρ τοῦ Ιορδάνου ἔνθεν καὶ ἔνθεν καὶ ἕλος καὶ δρυμός, οὐκ ἔστιν τόπος τοῦ ἐκκλῖναι·
For look! the battle is in front of us and behind us; the water of the Jordan is on this side and on that, with marsh and thicket; there is no place to turn.
Jonathan Maccabeus
1 Maccabees 9:45
καὶ ἐξήλλοντο οἱ ἐν τῇ ἑλεοπόλει εἰς τὴν πόλιν, καὶ ἐγένετο κίνημα μέγα ἐν τῇ πόλει.
The men in the siege engine leaped out into the city, and a great tumult arose in the city.
Siege of Gazara
1 Maccabees 13:44
ἄρτι δὲ τῆς ἀνατολῆς διαχεομένης προσέβαλον ἑκάτεροι, οἱ μὲν ἔγγυον ἔχοντες εὐημερίας καὶ νίκης μετὰ ἀρετῆς τὴν ἐπὶ τὸν κύριον καταφυγήν, οἱ δὲ καθηγεμόνα τῶν ἀγώνων ταττόμενοι τὸν θυμόν.
Just as dawn was breaking, the two armies joined battle, the one having as pledge of success and victory not only their valor but their reliance upon the Lord, while the other made rage their leader in the fight.
2 Maccabees 10:28
λεοντηδὸν δὲ ἐντινάξαντες εἰς τοὺς πολεμίους κατέστρωσαν αὐτῶν χιλίους πρὸς τοῖς μυρίοις, ἱππεῖς δὲ ἑξακοσίους πρὸς τοῖς χιλίοις· τοὺς δὲ πάντας ἠνάγκασαν φεύγειν.
They hurled themselves like lions against the enemy, and slew eleven thousand of them and sixteen hundred horsemen, and forced all the rest to flee.
2 Maccabees 11:11
καταρξάμενος τῇ πατρίῳ φωνῇ τὴν μεθ' ὕμνων κραυγὴν ἐνσείσας ἀπροσδοκήτως τοῖς περὶ τὸν Γοργίαν, τροπὴν αὐτῶν ἐποιήσατο.
In the language of their fathers he raised the battle cry, with hymns; then he charged against Gorgias' men when they were not expecting it, and put them to flight.
Jewish army against the Seleucids
2 Maccabees 12:37
‘For these i place neither physical bounds nor temporal limits; i have given empire without end.’
Vergil, Aeneid, 1.278-9
‘It has now finally come about that the limits of our empire and of the earth are one and the same’.
Cicero, On the Consular Provinces, 33.
‘It is not permitted for the Roman people to be in servitude, whom the immortal gods wanted to rule over all peoples’.
Cicero, Philippics, 6.19
‘In this way the divine will has given Italy a most excellent and temperate climatic condition in order that it may rule the world.’
Vitruvius, On Architecture, 6.1.11
‘Initially Africa was held by the Gaetulians and Libyans, rough and uncouth peoples whose food was the flesh of wild animals and fodder from the ground, as for cattle’.
Sallust, Bellum Jugurthinum, 18.1
‘The lower part of Africa was mostly taken possession of by the Numidians, and all the conquered passed into the race and name of those in command over them’.
Sallust, Bellum Jugurthinum, 18.12
‘”Will this one victory or these spoils satisfy you? Will your expectations not equal your courage?”’
Speech of P. Decius Mus in: Livy, History of Rome, 10.17.4-6
‘And if our fatherland is pure delight, as well it ought to be... with what great love must we certainly be stirred for a country like ours, as it stands alone amongst all others as the home of virtue, imperial power, and dignity!’
Cicero, On the Orator, 1.196
‘Consider also that we aren’t now working for some glory hoped for in a future time but rather fighting for what we have won, and we are obliged to maintain this rather than seek it out’.
Cicero, Letters to Brother Quintus, 1.1.41
‘The Romans make it a point to embark only upon wars that are just, and to make no casual or precipitate decisions about such matters.’
Diodorus of Sicily, Universal History, 32.5
‘But once they held sway over virtually the whole inhabited world, they confirmed their power by terrorism and by the destruction of the most eminent cities.’
Diodorus of Sicily, Universal History, 32.2, 4.4-5
‘Remember by your empire to rule the world’s peoples (for these will be your arts), to impose the practice of peace, to be sparing to the subjected, and to beat down the defiant’.
Vergil, Aeneid, 6.851-3
‘But there are still traces of the Massiliots’ ancient strength, especially their aptitude in making instruments and outfitting ships.’
Strabo, Geography, 4.1.5
‘...and the Britons gradually drifted into alluring vices: promenades, baths, sumptuous dinners. The naive natives called this part of their servitude “culture”.’
Tacitus, Agricola, 21
‘The tribe of the Fenni live in remarkable wilderness and foul poverty. They have no arms, no horses, no homes. Their food is wild vegetation, skins provide their clothing; they have the ground as a bed. All their hopes lie in their arrows, but they tip them with bone, since they have no iron.’
Tacitus, Germania, 46
‘And yet they think they are happier to live this way than to groan over field work, or to be saddled with building houses, and to be constantly involving the fortunes of both themselves and their neighbours in alternate hopes and fears. They do not care about men; they do not care about heaven. They have achieved something very difficult: they have nothing for which to pray.’
Tacitus, Germania, 46
‘Captive Greece seized it ferocious conqueror and bought the arts into rustic latium.’
Horace, Epistles, 2.1.156-7
‘Greece, which was kindled with a passion for eloquence, and for long has excelled all other states in this regard. And yet [Greece] had discovered all the other arts, and even brought them to perfection before this art of effective and eloquent speaking was developed.’
Cicero, Brutus, 26
‘He knew of Hippocrates’ famous reply, when he was summoned to attend the Persian King for an enormous fee, and stated he would never give his service to barbarians who were enemies of the Greeks.’
Plutarch, Life of Cato the Elder, 23.1-5
‘But in Greece every state is run by irresponsible seated assemblies.’
Cicero, In Defence of Flaccus, 7.16-17
‘Words cannot express, gentlemen, how bitterly foreign nations hate us because of the wanton and outrageous conduct of the men whom we recently have sent to govern them.’
Cicero, On the Manilian Law, 22.65-6
‘He had a stick with him cut from a vine, and he drew with it a circle around Antiochus and said he must stay inside the circle until he gave an answer. The king was astonished at this imperious behaviour, but after hesitating for a few moments, he said he would carry out Rome’s will.’
Polybius, Histories, 29.27.1-6
Hope some of these might be usable aswell.
I know these are very Roman centred but a lot of them could be applicable to any faction.
Here are some more quotes from Sallust's Jugurthine War, in addition to those above from Tomato Sandwich.
Nam in consule nostro multae bonaeque artes animi et corporis erant, quas omnis avaritia praepediebat: patiens laborum, acri ingenio, satis providens, belli haud ignarus, firmissumus contra pericula et insidias.
For though our consul possessed many excellent qualities of mind and body, they were all nullified by avarice. He had great endurance, a keen intellect, no little foresight, considerable military experience, and a stout heart in the face of dangers and plots.
Concerning L. Calpurnius Bestia, consul 111 BC
Sallust, Bellum Iugurthinum 28:5
"Nam fidei quidem aut concordiae quae spes est? Dominari illi volunt, vos liberi esse; facere illi iniurias, vos prohibere; postremo sociis nostris veluti hostibus, hostibus pro sociis utuntur. Potestne in tam divorsis mentibus pax aut amicitia esse?”
"Pray, what hope have you of mutual confidence or harmony? They wish to be tyrants, you to be free; they desire to inflict injury, you to prevent it; finally, they treat our allies as enemies and our enemies as allies. Are peace and friendship compatible with sentiments so unlike?”
C. Memmius, tribune, speech to the Comitia
Sallust, Bellum Iugurthinum 31:23-24
Dein singulas turmas et manipulos circumiens monet atque obtestatur uti memores pristinae virtutis et victoriae sese regnumque suum ab Romanorum avaritia defendant
Then going about to the various squads and companies, he admonished and besought them to be mindful of their old time valour and victories, and to defend themselves and their country from the greed of the Romans.
Jugurtha before the Battle of the Muthul
Sallust, Bellum Iugurthinum 49:2
Qua in parte rex pugnae affuit, ibi aliquamdiu certatum, ceteri eius omnes milites primo congressu pulsi fugatique.
Wherever the king was present in person, there was some show of resistance; everywhere else his soldiers broke and fled at the first charge.
Sallust, Bellum Iugurthinum 74:3 (Concerning Jugurtha; unnamed battle)
Non possum fidei causa imagines neque triumphos aut consulatus maiorum meorum ostentare, at, si res postulet, hastas, vexillum, phaleras, alia militaria dona, praeterea cicatrices advorso corpore.
“I cannot, to justify your confidence, display family portraits or the triumphs and consulships of my forefathers; but if occasion requires, I can show spears, a banner, trappings and other military prizes, as well as scars on my breast.”
Sallust, Bellum Iugurthinum 85:29 (Marius, addressing the Comitia)
Sudorem, pulverem et alia talia relinquant nobis, quibus illa epulis iucundiora sunt.
“Sweat, dust, and all such things let them leave to us, to whom they are sweeter than feasts.”
Sallust, Bellum Iugurthinum 85:41 (Marius, addressing the Comitia)
Plura dicerem, Quirites, si timidis virtutem verba adderent. Nam strenuis abunde dictum puto.
“I would say more, citizens, if words could make cowards brave. For the resolute I think I have spoken abundantly.”
Sallust, Bellum Iugurthinum 85:50 (Marius, concluding his address to the Comitia)
‘Shortly thereafter [Mithridates] captured Manius Aquillius, who was the foremost agitator for this embassy and for this war. Mithridates led him around tied to an ass, and proclaimed himself Manius to everyone who saw him. Finally, at Pergamum, Mithridates poured molten gold down his throat as a rebuke against Roman avarice.’
Appian, Mithridatic Wars, 21
‘Don’t you realize that the Romans turned eastward militarily only after the ocean had blocked their westward advance? That since the beginning they have possessed nothing that they have not stolen: home, wives, lands, empire?’
Sallust, Letter of Mithridates, 17-21
‘While he appeared to be ready to answer their requests, he gave an arranged signal for his troops to surround the Jews. The Jews now found themselves in a ring of soldiers, three men deep, and they were dumbstruck at the unexpected sight.’
Josephus, Jewish war, 2.169-74
‘The Jews saw that war was now fast approaching the capital, and they abandoned the feast and ran to arms’.
Josephus, Jewish war, 2.517-19
‘This is because peace is not welcome to these people, and they cannot distinguish themselves more readily among dangers. Besides, a great retinue cannot be maintained except by war and violence.’
Tacitus, Germania, 14
‘The first reports of the Cimbri and Teutones’ numbers and strength were incredible... They most likely were German tribes, whose territory extends to the northern ocean. This idea is supported by their great size, the light blue colour of their eyes, and the fact that the German word for plunderers is ‘Cimbri’.’
Plutarch, Life of Marius, 11.2-6
‘Entrapped by forests, marshes, and ambuscades, the army was annihilated almost to a man by the same enemy whom it had been accustomed to slaughter like cattle...’
Velleius Paterculus, Roman Histories, 2.119
‘From earliest times this country has had an ambiguous national character and geographical situation...’
Tacitus, Annals, 2.56. on the Armenian plateau.
‘At the same time he talked in bold and menacing ways about the old boundaries of the Persian and Macedonian empires, and his intention of taking the territories that Cyrus once held and after him Alexander.’
King Artabanus of Parthia in: Tacitus, Annals, 6.31
‘He looked over the row of prisoners, without any regard to their individual records, and... announced that those ‘between the bald heads’ were to be lead away’.
Caligula in: Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, Caligula 27.
‘Finally, as if he were to embark upon a war, he drew up his battle lines and set out his catapults and other artillery on the ocean shore. When no one had the least idea what he intended, he suddenly gave the order that they were to gather sea shells, filling their helmets and the folds of their tunics. These were what he termed spoils owed by the Ocean to the Capitol and Palatine.’
Caligula in: Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, Caligula 46
‘As for his horse Incitatus... it is said, too, that he meant to make him consul’.
Caligula in: Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, Caligula 55.
‘Nero watched the fire from the tower of Maecenas, delighted with what he termed “the beauty of the flames” and, dressed in his stage attire, he sang of “the Fall of Troy”.’
Nero in: Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, Nero 38.
‘”I will carry out great vengeance on them and punish them in my wrath. Then they will know that I am the lord, when I take my vengeance upon them”.’
Ezekiel 25:17
‘And no more under slavish yoke to thee will either Greek or Syrian put his neck, barbarian or any nation, thou shalt be plundered and shalt be destroyed for what thou didst, and wailing aloud in fear thou shalt give until thou shalt repay.’
Sibylline Oracles, 8.121-9
A few more. again sorry i only have translations.
I've started going through the "old" quotes that need more accurate citations (only the latin ones). Here's what I could find for the Seneca quotes.
The quote comes from: Medea 196Quote:
{Author_101} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_101} Iniqua nunquam regna perpetuo manent - Stern masters do not reign long.
We do not fear death, but the thought of death.Quote:
{Author_120} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_120} Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis
The quote comes from: Epistulae Morales IV, 30:17
The latin is: Contemptum periculorum adsiduitas periclitandi dabitQuote:
{Author_122} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_122} Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them.
The quote comes from: De Providentia 4:12
I looked long and hard but couldn't find these anywhere in Seneca's works.Quote:
{Author_45} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_45} In war there is no prize for runner-up.
{Author_46} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_46} In war, when a commander becomes so bereft of reason and perspective that he fails to understand the dependence of arms on Divine guidance, he no longer deserves victory.
A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands. (or something to that effect - I think the text file already has a translation??)Quote:
{Author_62} Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_62} Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est
The latin quote is incorrect. It should be: Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est
The quote comes from: Epistulae Morales XI-XIII, 87:30
Here are the ones from Cicero, Tibullus and Ovid.
The latin is: Quis fuit, horrendos primus qui protulit enses? Quam ferus et vere ferreus ille fuit!Quote:
{Author_107} Albius Tibullus
{Quote_107} Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made.
The quote is from: Elegiae I, 10:1-2
The latin is: Audentes deus ipse iuvat!Quote:
{Author_111} Publius Ovidius Naso
{Quote_111} The gods favour the bold.
The quote is from: Metamorphoses, 10:586
It should probably be translated as "God favours the bold." (ie. god is singular...but I'm not too bothered).
The quote is from: In Verrem, 1:2Quote:
{Author_127} Marcus Tullius Cicero
{Quote_127} Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit - Nothing is so well fortified that money cannot capture it.
The latin is: Nervos belli, pecuniam infinitamQuote:
{Author_135} Marcus Tullius Cicero
{Quote_135} The sinews of war are infinite money.
The quote is from: Philippic 5:5
Here are the ones from Tacitus:
Quote attributed to: Tiridates I of Armenia, exhorting Vologases I of Parthia to send Parthian forces to ArmeniaQuote:
{Author_112} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_112} Great empires are not maintained by timidity.
The latin is: Non enim ignavia magna imperia contineri
Quote is from: Annales, 15:1
(this quote is repeated below, at quote/author no. 7)
This quote is incorrect. It is actually about Arminius and not about barbarians in general. It should be: He completed thirty-seven years of life, twelve years of power, and he is still a theme of song among barbarous nations, though to Greek historians, who admire only their own achievements, he is unknown, and to Romans not as famous as he should be, while we extol the past and are indifferent to our own times.Quote:
{Author_131} Tacitus, Annals of Imperial Rome
{Quote_131} Barbarians: Greek Historians ignore them, reserving their admiration for Greece only. We Romans too, have underestimated them, since in our devotion to antiquity we neglect modern history
The latin for that quote is: Septem et triginta annos vitae, duodecim potentiae explevit, caniturque adhuc barbaras apud gentis, Graecorum annalibus ignotus, qui sua tantum mirantur, Romanis haud perinde celebris, dun vetera extollimus recentium incuriosi.
It comes from Annales, 2:88
The latin is: Ratione et consilio, propriis ducis artibusQuote:
{Author_137} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_137} The proper arts of a general are judgement and prudence.
The quote is from: Historiae, 3:20
This is a repeat. See above.Quote:
{Author_7} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_7} Great empires are not maintained by timidity.
The latin is: Etaim fortes viros subitis terreriQuote:
{Author_71} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_71} Even the bravest are frightened by sudden terrors.
The quote comes from: Annales, 15:59
Attributed to: All the good men of Rome, worried about the Gallic revolt, circa 21 AD.Quote:
{Author_73} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_73} A bad peace is even worse than war.
The latin is: Miseram pacem vel bello bene mutari.
The quote comes from: Annales, 3:44
The latin is: Nisi impunitatis cupido … magnis semper conatibus adversaQuote:
{Author_74} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_74} The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.
The quote comes from: Annales, 15:50
I couldn’t find this one. Sorry.Quote:
{Author_99} G. Cornelius Tacitus
{Quote_99} Valour is the contempt of death and pain.
...and here's the ones from Silius Italicus. I don't have access to an english translation of the text (Punica or the other works), so if anyone has access to one, that would be helpful (see below).
The quote comes from: Silius Italicus, Punica, 1:114-115Quote:
{Author_108} Hannibal Barca at the age of 9, ca. 238 BC
{Quote_108} I swear so soon as age will permit I will use fire and steel to arrest the destiny of Rome.
The latin is: Romanos terra atque undis, ubi competet aetas, ferro ignique sequar Rhoeteaque fata reuoluam.
I'm a bit stumped by the reference to "Rhoetea". Rhoeteum is an area near Troy. Given the Punica is a poem, and that Italicus lived in the period immediately after Virgil, this may be a poetic reference to Rome's mythical roots as set out in the Aeneid? Someone with access to an english translation should be able to sort this out.
Also, the words "on land and at sea" should be added to the end of the english quote.
I couldn't find this one. Again, if anyone has access to an english translation of Italicus' works then they may be able to find it.Quote:
{Author_66} Silius Italicus
{Quote_66} In war we must be speedy.
... from Terence and Publilius Syrus.
Quote is from: Phormio, Act 3, Line 506Quote:
{Author_148} Terence
{Quote_148} Auribus teneō lupum - I am holding the wolf by his ears.
Latin is: Qui culpae ignoscit uni, suadet pluribusQuote:
{Author_59} Publilius Syrus
{Quote_59} Pardon one offence and you encourage the commission of many.
Quote is from: Sententiae
Latin is: Prospicere in pace oportet, quod bellum iuvetQuote:
{Author_6} Publilius Syrus
{Quote_6} We should provide in peace what we need in war.
Quote is from: Sententiae
Latin is: Caret periclo, qui etiam cum est tutus cavetQuote:
{Author_64} Publilius Syrus
{Quote_64} He is best secure from dangers who is on his guard even when he seems safe.
Quote is from: Sententiae
Nb: Sententiae is literally a list of sentences (ie. maxims). There are no book or chapter numbers. If necessary I can find the maxim "numbers".
Without all the hoopla, here are the files for EB1 of you want to add some new quotes.
https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/58...ider800pa6.png
Quotes
Descr_quotes_lookup
Descr_transition_screen
https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/58...ider800pa6.png
Download all three files.
Quotes goes in your EB/data/text folder.
Descr_quotes_lookup and descr_transition_screen go in your EB/data folder.
Say "yes" if asked to overwrite old files. It is always a good idea to backup your old files first, just in case. I will not of course take any responsibility if it all goes wrong somehow, although I might feel bad about it.
That's it. I have playtested these files on my own version of EB1 and have encountered no problems. If anyone does, PM me or post on this thread and I will do what I can to help.
The new quotes file contains ca. 240 quotes, at least half of which are new (you will have seen some of them on the quotes project thread). Almost all of the remaining old quotes have been redone to include correct citations and often the original language. A few old quotes do remain to be redone in this way.
All of the old quotes of questionable historical accuracy have been removed, including the Shakespeare, Confucius and Sun Tzu, as well as any of the other quotes that had questions raised about their authenticity.
The quotes have all been formatted and edited for length and appearance, and the strings have been renumbered from scratch, making it easy for someone to add or modify the quotes if they wish. Anyone interested in doing so is advised to contact me first for some hints.
Bear in mind that the work still remains to some extent WIP: you may find that some of the longer quotes overlap the artwork on the loading screens. The layout on EB2 is somewhat different.
I do not anticipate posting any more versions of these files for EB1. Any further developments will be applied to EB2.
Not a shameless bump, but a note to say that the project is not finished.
There are still some old quotes to verify/cite, and plenty of good material still out there (there's an earlier post of mine that outlines as yet untapped sources). I won't be redoing the EB1 quotes again, but any really killer quotes could still make it into EB2 eventually.
And although the quotes themselves are a relatively minor part of the game, for me at least it has been a fantastic opportunity to reacquaint myself with texts that, in some cases, I haven't looked at for 20 years (yes, that long since college). I hope the same is true for those of you who have submitted material, or who have had a look at the Perseus project or found an old Loeb edition in a second-hand bookstore, or whatever.
For many of us, Europa Barbarorum isn't just a game, it's a portal to the world of the mind.
Heart felt thanks to all the fans who helped out. I had no idea that so many people would contribute.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news ... but I'm getting a lot of crashes with the new quotes files. No idea what is causing it.
Hold that...I think Ive fixed it.
Can you tell me what it is you did that fixed it?
At first it was crashing continuously. Now I'm still getting the occasional crash, but its just occasional.Quote:
Originally Posted by oudysseos
I think it was a vista issue. For some reason the files weren't transferring into the folders properly. After transferring the files twice, I opened the quotes text folder and it was still the old file. After the third time it seemed to transfer.
I foudnd the best way to transfer the files was to download them into a separate file than click-and-drag them across. Downloading direct to the folder, and cut and paste didn't seem to work well.
Just wanted to say a big thank you to Oudysseos and anyone else who organised the new quotes. They're great! Really enjoying reading them as I play.
Cheers.
I just want to confirm that I have played 75+ iterations of EB1.2 with the new files without any crashes, problems or slowdowns. I suspect, for those of you who have reported a problem, two issues.
1. Vista: Urg posted that he had to make sure that the files were indeed copied into the correct folders. I do not have Vista so I can't confirm that, but let me just recommend that you download the files into a separate folder and then click-and-drag them into the correct locations. More than that I cannot say.
2. Not getting all three files: I just checked filefront, and the three files have three different download counts, which means that lots of people have not read the directions.
IF YOU DO NOT INSTALL ALL THREE FILES IN THE CORRECT LOCATION, THIS WILL NOT WORK.
I don't know if I can make that any clearer.
Although, as I said, I have encountered no problems and am confident that there are no errors, I will review the 2 ancillary files to make sure that all the numbers match up. If I did miss something, I'll repost.
OK, so I have reconfirmed that all the numbers, labels and strings match up over all three files: there is no earthly reason why these should be causing crashes, IF YOU INSTALLED ALL THREE FILES correctly. Without descr_transition_screen and descr_quotes_lookup, the new quotes will not show up in game, even if you replace the old quotes file. Vista users are urged to double-check that the new files have really been installed.
I have run another 50 tests on my EB1.2 without any changes, crashes or slow-downs, so if anybody is experiencing problems I'm stumped.
They're working perfectly for me too. And very enjoyable.
Oh, Urg, re: your message: as I said, the project is not in the least finished. In fact, I had never originally intended to redo the EB1 quotes at all. For one thing, the file was a mess (I essentially redid it from scratch). So the release of the new quotes for EB1 is merely a happy by-product, and also because I felt that so many fans had done so much excellent work (like yourself) that they should enjoy the fruits of their labours sooner than the first EB2 release.
But the EB2 phase is still ongoing. There are still some old quotes left to do as far as citation goes, and a lot of new material that is specific to individual factions that I left out of the EB1 version. There is so much of it that once I get to 300 quotes, I might start eliminating any old quotes from vanilla RTW and overly familiar ones from EB1, just so the whole thing seems new. I also eventually plan, since I have all this material on a spreadsheet sorted by author, language, culture etc. to do some kind of wiki for them, with biographical info and links to the larger texts that the quotes come from. That won't be done until after EB2.
So, short answer, keep posting stuff if you want. Anything really cool will get in, and I am always on the look-out for non Graeco-Roman material.
"The result was that most of them were cut down in the order of march, without being able to defend themselves"
- Polybius, The Histories (III, LXXXIV), speaking of the battle of Lake Trasimene
I believe this is too modern.....
"United Gaul, Forming a single nation, animated by a common spirit, can defy the Universe"
- Statue of Vercingetorix, Alesia (?)
(the statue was built by Napoleon :inquisitive:)
Recently, i read in an issue of 'Ancient Warfare' a very suitable phrase:
A general should be free from avarice. "For many who can face the shields and spears of a host with courage are blinded by gold."
- Onasander; Strategikos, 1.8
A mid-first century AD greek platonic philosopher who wrote a treatsie on the role of the commander in the Roman army.
Here's some more missing Latin quotes/citations.
I looked through the Thebaid, Achilleid and Silvae and couldn’t find it. There’s a passage at Thebaid VII:806-807 that gets close. Maybe the quote is in error. Or maybe someone else can find it?Quote:
{Author_69} Publius Statius
{Quote_69} The cruelty of war makes for peace.
Latin is: Deprehensa uero subsessa, si circumueniatur utiliter, plus periculi sustinet, quam parabat inferre.Quote:
{Author_76} Publius Flavius Vegetius
{Quote_76} An ambush, if discovered and promptly surrounded, will repay the intended mischief with interest.
The quote is from: De Re Militari, 3:6
Latin is: multos se deliros senes saepe vidisse, sed qui magis quam Phormio deliraret vidisse neminem.Quote:
{Author_77} Hannibal Barca, addressing Phormio's lecture on leadership
{Quote_77} I have seen during my life many an old fool; but this one beats them all.
The quote is from: Cicero de oratore II 18:75
Latin is: Paucos uiros fortes natura procreat, bona institutione plures reddit industria.Quote:
{Author_78} Publius Flavius Vegetius
{Quote_78} Few men are born brave; many become so through training and force of discipline.
Quote is from: De Re Militari, 3:26
Latin is: Difficile uincitur qui uere potest de suis et de aduersarii copiis iudicare.Quote:
{Author_79} Publius Flavius Vegetius
{Quote_79} A general is not easily overcome who can form a true judgement of his own and the enemy's forces.
Quote is from: De Re Militari, 3:26
Latin is: Quod saepe in bello parvis momentis magni casus intercederentQuote:
{Author_9} Gaius Julius Caesar
{Quote_9} In war important events result from trivial causes.
Quote is from: De bello civile 1:21
Latin is: Amplius iuuat uirtus quam multitudo.Quote:
{Author_98} Publius Flavius Vegetius
{Quote_98} Valour is superior to numbers.
Quote is from: De Re Militari, 3:26
Two corrections in the quotes text file:
Quote 1: Hyth should be Yth
Translation 27 is incorrectly referred to as “trans_28” (when quote 27 appears on screen, the translation is missing. It does not seem to cause a crash.)
Final Latin additions/citations to the quotes text file:
Quote 31, Latin is: Nunc denique est perfectum ut imperii nostri terrarumque illarum idem esset extremum.
Quote 31 is from On the Consular Provinces, 33
Quote 36, Latin is: Nam si vos omnibus imperitare vultis, sequitur ut omnes servitutem accipiant?
Quote 36 is from Annales 12:37
Quote 45, Latin is Romanorum cum se non quo hostis uocasset sed quo imperatores sui duxissent ituros esse
Quote 46, Latin is Populum Romanum servire fas non est, quem di immortales omnibus gentibus imperare voluerunt.
Quote 49, Latin is Graecis, gente lingua magis strenua quam factis
Quote 58, Latin is Urbem venalem et mature perituram, si emptorem invenerit!
Quote 59, Latin is Nam, ut ego aestumo, regem armis quam munificentia vinci minus flagitiosum est.
Quote 65. Latin is Numquamne ergo familia nostra quieta erit? Semperne in sanguine, ferro, fuga vorsabitur?
Quote 66. Latin is Graecorum autem totae res publicae sedentis contionis temeritate administrantur.
Quote 66 comes from 7.16 (not 16-17)
Quote 69, Latin is Nos terrarum ac libertatis extremos
Quote 70, Latin is Auferre trucidare rapere falsis nominibus imperium, atque ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Quote 101, Latin is Qui magno imperio praediti in excelso aetatem agunt, eorum facta cuncti mortales novere.
Quote 138, Latin is Amat Victoria curam
Quote 153, Latin is Fortuna belli semper ancipiti in loco est.
Quote 153 comes from: Phoenissae, Act 4, 622
Quote 218, Latin is Plus animi est inferenti periculum quam propulsanti.
I just checked through Urg's quotes from the Maccabees with my limited Greek vocab:
The quoted passage starts at "Τί δυνησόμεθα..." as far as I can see, so the first 3 Greek words should be left out. Apart form that it's fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urg
That one's fine.Quote:
Εὔκοπόν ἐστιν συγκλεισθῆναι πολλοὺς ἐν χερσὶν ὀλίγων, καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν διαφορὰ ἐναντίον τοῦ οὐρανοῦ σῴζειν ἐν πολλοῖς ἢ ἐν ὀλίγοις·
It is easy for many to be hemmed in by few, for in the sight of Heaven there is no difference between saving by many or by few.
1 Maccabees 3:18
Not sure about that one... that first 2 words are fine ("Grid yourself and") but the translation of the rest seems to be not-so-literal, but should be fine.Quote:
Περιζώσασθε καὶ γίνεσθε εἰς υἱοὺς δυνατοὺς
"Gird yourselves and be valiant."
Judas Maccabeus to the Jewish army before the Battle of Emmaus
1 Maccabees 3:58
That one's fine.Quote:
Μὴ φοβεῖσθε τὸ πλῆθος αὐτῶν καὶ τὸ ὅρμημα αὐτῶν μὴ δειλωθῆτε·
"Do not fear their numbers or be afraid when they charge"
Judas Maccabeus to the Jewish army before the Battle of Emmaus
1 Maccabees 4:8
That one's fine. It's very interesting, that the word translated as "sword" is "rhomphaia".Quote:
καὶ συνετρίβησαν τὰ ἔθνη καὶ ἔφυγον εἰς τὸ πεδίον, οἱ δὲ ἔσχατοι πάντες ἔπεσον ἐν ῥομφαίᾳ.
The Gentiles were crushed and fled into the plain, and all those in the rear fell by the sword.
1 Maccabees 4:14-15
That one's fine.Quote:
καὶ ἔστησεν ἐκεῖ βελοστάσεις καὶ μηχανὰς καὶ πυροβόλα καὶ λιθοβόλα καὶ σκορπίδια εἰς τὸ βάλλεσθαι βέλη καὶ σφενδόνας.
He set up siege towers, engines of war to throw fire and stones, machines to shoot arrows, and catapults.
Antiochus V Eupator at Jerusalem
1 Maccabees 6:51
Not sure about that one. :inquisitive:Quote:
Μὴ γένοιτο ποιῆσαι τὸ πρᾶγμα τοῦτο, φυγεῖν ἀπ' αὐτῶν, καὶ εἰ ἤγγικεν ὁ καιρὸς ἡμῶν, καὶ ἀποθάνωμεν ἐν ἀνδρείᾳ χάριν τῶν ἀδελφῶν ἡμῶν καὶ μὴ καταλίπωμεν αἰτίαν τῇ δόξῃ ἡμῶν.
"Far be it from us to do such a thing as to flee from them. If our time has come, let us die bravely for our brethren, and leave no cause to question our honour."
Judas Maccabeus to the Jewish army before the Battle of Elasa
1 Maccabees 9:10
The quoted passage only goes until "δυνατοί, ...". You can leave out the part from "Βακχίδης..." on.Quote:
καὶ ἐμερίσθη ἡ ἵππος εἰς δύο μέρη, καὶ οἱ σφενδονῆται καὶ οἱ τοξόται προεπορεύοντο τῆς δυνάμεως, καὶ οἱ πρωταγωνισταὶ πάντες οἱ δυνατοί, Βακχίδης δὲ ἦν ἐν τῷ δεξιῷ κέρατι.
The cavalry was divided into two companies, and the slingers and the archers went ahead of the army, as did all the chief warriors.
Seleucid army at the Battle of Elasa
1 Maccabees 9:11
Hmm, could it be that there is something missing at the beginning of the quote? The rest of the quote is fine.Quote:
ἐκ τῶν δύο μερῶν καὶ ἐφώνουν ταῖς σάλπιγξιν, καὶ ἐσάλπισαν οἱ παρὰ Ιουδου καὶ αὐτοὶ ταῖς σάλπιγξιν· καὶ ἐσαλεύθη ἡ γῆ ἀπὸ τῆς φωνῆς τῶν παρεμβολῶν, καὶ ἐγένετο ὁ πόλεμος συνημμένος ἀπὸ πρωίθεν ἕως ἑσπέρας.
Flanked by the two companies, the phalanx advanced to the sound of the trumpets; and the men with Judas also blew their trumpets. The earth was shaken by the noise of the armies, and the battle raged from morning till evening.
Battle of Elasa, 160 BC
1 Maccabees 9:12-13
Thanks heaps Machinor. My knowledge of Greek is, well, non-existent.
Here are some Latin quotes concerning the barbarians. Some of them are probably too long for quotes.
For with barbarians, the more eager a man's daring, the more does he inspire confidence.
Nam barbaris, quanto quis audacia promptus, tanto magis fidus habetur.
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 1:57
For the huge shields and unwieldly lances of the barbarians cannot, amid trunks of trees and brushwood that springs from the ground, be so well managed as our javelins and swords and closefitting armour.
Nec enim inmensa barbarorum scuta, enormis hastas inter truncos arborum et enata humo virgulta perinde haberi quam pila et gladios et haerentia corpori tegmina.
Germanicus, addressing his troops before the battle of the Weser river
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 2:16
Our soldiers, with their shields pressed to their breasts, and their hands grasping their sword-hilts, struck at the huge limbs and exposed faces of the barbarians, cutting a passage through the slaughtered enemy.
Miles, cui scutum pecotri adpressum et insidens capulo manus, latos barbarorum artus, nuda ora foderet viamque strage hostium aperiret.
Battle of the Weser river
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 2:21
With barbarians, indecision is a slave's weakness; prompt action king-like.
Et barbaris cunctatio servilis, statim exequi regium videtur.
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 6:32
Practise clemency and justice, which barbarians would like the more for being unused to them.
Clementiamque ac iustitiam, quanto ignota barbaris, tanto laetiora capesseret.
The emperor Claudius’ advice to Meherdates.
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 12:11
He reminded Meherdates that the impulsive enthusiasm of barbarians soon flags from delay or even changes into treachery.
Monet Meherdaten barbarorum impetus acris cunctatione languescere aut in perfidiam mutari.
C. Cassius Longinus, governor of Syria
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 12:12
There is nothing of which barbarians are so ignorant as military engines and the skilful management of sieges.
Nihil tam ignarum barbaris quam machinamenta et astus oppugnationum.
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 12:45
In their rage and their triumph, they spared no variety of a barbarian's cruelty.
Nec ullum in barbaris ingeniis saevitiae genus omisit ira et victoria.
British tribes under Boudicea.
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Agricola, 1:16
They received his speech with enthusiasm, and as is usual among barbarians, with songs, shouts and discordant cries.
Excepere orationem alacres, ut barbaris moris, fremitu cantuque et clamoribus dissonis.
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Agricola, 1:33
He consented, with the characteristic perfidy of barbarians, to the destruction of Anicetus.
Fluxa, ut est barbaris, fide pactus Aniceti exitium perfugas tradidit.
Prince of the Sedochezi.
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Historiae, 3:48
Civilis, however, was naturally politic to a degree rarely found among barbarians.
Sed Civilis ultra quam barbaris solitum ingenio sollers
Concerning C. Julius Civilis, leader of the Batavi
C. Cornelius Tacitus, Historiae, 4:13
For the Numidians are, beyond all the other barbarians, violently addicted to love.
Et sunt ante omnes barbaros Numidae effusi in uenerem.
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 29:23
How inconstant and changeable were the minds of the barbarians.
Quam uana et mutabilia barbarorum ingenia essent.
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 29:23
With foreigners, with barbarians, all Greeks have, and ever will have, eternal war.
Cum alienigenis, cum barbaris aeternum omnibus Graecis bellum est eritque.
Ambassadors of Macedon, addressing the Aetolian League.
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 31:29
They live under customs and rites more brutally savage than any barbarians, nay, than wild beasts themselves.
Moribus ritibusque efferatioribus quam ulli barbari, immo quam immanes beluae uiuunt
Aristaenos of Megalopolis, denouncing the Aetolian League and Nabis of Sparta
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 34:24
The barbarians, as is their usual habit, spent the greater part of the night in rejoicing, in exultation and in noisy demonstrations.
Plerumque noctis barbari more suo laetari, exultare, strepere vocibus.
Sallust, Bellum Iugurthum, 98:6
Murder should not, after the manner of barbarians, be atoned for by murder, and blood by blood.
Barbaro ritu caede caedem et sanguinem sanguine expianda.
Sallust, Ad Caesarem Senem de Re Publica Oratio, 3:4
Antisthenes was taunted with having a barbarian, a Thracian woman, for his mother; his retort was that even the mother of the gods was from Mount Ida.
Antistheni mater barbara et Thraessa obiciebatur: respondit et deorum matrem Idaeam esse.
Seneca, de Constantia, 18:6
What else is it, in fact, but their anger - its own worst foe - that reduces to impotency the barbarians, who are so much stronger of body than we, and so much better able to endure hardship?
Quid enim est aliud quod barbaros tanto robustiores corporibus, tanto patientiores laborum comminuat nisi ira infestissima sibi?
Seneca, de Ira, 1:11:1
But there lives no race that does not feel the goad of anger, which masters alike both Greeks and barbarians, and is no less ruinous to those who respect the law than to those who make might the only measure of their right.
Nulla gens est quam non ira instiget, tam inter Graios quam inter barbaros potens, non minus perniciosa leges metuentibus quam quibus iura distinguit modus uirium.
Seneca, de Ira, 3:2:1
Such was the ferocity of barbarian kings when in anger - men who had had no contact with learning or the culture of letters.
Haec barbaris regibus feritas in ira fuit, quos nulla eruditio, nullus litterarum cultus inbuerat
Seneca, de Ira, 3:17:1
You are like the barbarians who, usually, when they are blockaded, having no knowledge of the engines of war, watch with indifference the effort of the besiegers.
Sicut barbari plerumque inclusi et ignari machinarum segnes laborem obsidentium spectant.
Seneca, De Vita Beata, 26:3
Latin words do not suggest themselves readily to one in whose ears the uncouth jargon of barbarians is ever ringing, distressing even to the more civilized barbarians.
Non facile Latina ei homini verba succurrant, quem barbarorum inconditus et barbaris quoque humanioribus gravis fremitus circumsonat.
Seneca, Ad Polybium de Consolatione, 18
Why do we find Greek cities in the very heart of barbarian countries?
Quid sibi uolunt in mediis barbarorum regionibus Graecae urbes?
Seneca, Ad Helviam Matrem de Consolatione, 7:1
A coin is not necessarily a bad one because a barbarian who does not know the government stamp has rejected it.
Non est malus denarius, quem barbarus et ignarus formae publicae reiecit.
Seneca, De Beneficiis, 5:20:1
"Why, oh why, have I not long ago escaped from all this torture and all this mockery? Why should I be armed and yet wait for death to come?"
'Quare, quare, non omne tormentum, omne ludibrium iamdudum effugio? quare ego mortem armatus exspecto?'
A barbarian warrior, killing himself (by a spear-stab to the throat) rather than fighting at the Roman games.
Seneca, Epistulae, 8:70:26
Nor were the barbarians as barbarous in language and in race as you are in your nature and your habits.
Neque tam barbari lingua et natione illi quam tu natura et moribus.
Cicero, In Verrem, 4:112
You have subdued nations, savage in their barbarism, countless in their numbers.
Domuisti gentis immanitate barbaras, multitudine innumerabilis.
Cicero, Pro Marcello, 8(3), concerning Caesar
But was not Romulus, think you, a king of a barbarous people?
Cedo, num, barbarorum Romulus rex fuit?
Cicero, de re publica, 1:58
The Greeks, who say that all peoples are either Grecianized or barbarous.
Si ut Graeci dicunt omnis aut Graios esse aut barbaros
Cicero, de re publica, 1:58
I believe the Greeks were just as barbarous as the Romans.
Non Graecos minus barbaros quam Romanos puto.
Cicero, de re publica, 1:58
...
For the Numidians, after the usual barbarous custom, encamped here and there without any regularity.
Numidae enim quadam barbara consuetudine nullis ordinibus passim consederant.
Caesar, De Bello Civili 2:38
Urg mate, you've really done some work here. Thanks.
I have already incorporated some of the edits suggested by Urg and Machinor into the EB2 build: as I have said I won't redo the EB1 quotes again. If anyone wants advice as to how to make minor changes or add more quotes pm me or ask on this thread. Let me say that I don't always include the Latin or Greek, depending on the length of the quote in general, as it has to fit on the loading screen. I will put together a separate EB quotes wiki at some point, with longer texts and commentaries. Not tomorrow.
Just a little one that popped up in an unrelated project.Quote:
Aristotle's De Animalibus Historia viii. 28, 7
Ἀɛὶ Λίβύη ϕέρɛί ṯί καίνόν
Libya is always showing something new.
Here's a couple of older Latin quotes. Was trying to find something from the pre- or early EB time period.
If anyone should stir up war against his country, or delivers a Roman citizen into the hands of the enemy, he shall be punished with death.
Qui hostem concitaverit quive civem hosti tradiderit, capite puniri
Lex Duodecim Tabularum (Twelve Tables), IX
He took Corsica and the city of Aleria. He dedicated a temple to the Storms as a just return.
Hec cepit Corsica Aleriaque urbe pugnandod, dedet Tempestatebus aide meretod votam.
Epitaph on the sarcophagus of L. Cornelius Scipio, consul 259 BC
A few of my favourite excerpts from St. Crispian's day speech by Henry V written by Shakespeare - for those of you who do not know.
"That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us. "
"He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;"
"From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."
Everyman who I know who's seen combat lives by those famous words, "we happy few".
EDIT: perhaps some of this speech has been suggested but I only did a search for "we would not die in that mans company" so I assumed it would be fine to just throw in my favourite parts aswell as the first verse.
Oh! and another favourite quote of mine from Platoon ; "Everybody's gotta die sometime, Red!" - SSGT Robert Barnes or "The first casualty of war is innocence." - Oliver Stone
I think that last quote is much truer than the quote from Aeschylus "Truth is the first casualty of war" because you can still be honourable and truthful to an enemy to an extent. In some cases war TURNS dasterdly rather than begins with lies. You must first lose innocence to kill. Therefore before the first shots are fired, before the first man dies, before the first lie is spewed, The deciders have lost their innocence inorder to declare a state of war and send the young to death. The young will lose their innocence along the way to meet the enemy.
I thought all the Shakespeare would not be included.
why?
What does the writings of shakespeare have to do with hellenistic era of the ancient world? Hence we won't include quotes that are written within an alien context to our own mod's timeframe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk
Foot
Is that just a general rule restricted to timeframe, or all other forms of context too? Because I could've sworn that the quotes file has something from Ovid's Amores which I find really bizarre to read right before a battle...Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Actually, unless I am greatly mistaken, the only Ovid in the quotes is
Which is itself a paraphrase of Ennius, I think.Quote:
{Author_15} Publius Ovidius Naso
{Quote_15} The gods favour the bold.
But to answer your broader question, the time-frame is the primary criterion for including a quote, along with relevance to the area involved: there are no Chinese quotes, for example, not even ones from the 3rd century BCE. I bent the rules in 3 or 4 cases (the Irish triads and so on) because it is otherwise very difficult to give pre-literate people (or people whose literature had been totally lost) a voice. Since we're talking 4 quotes out of 300 I think that we are still pretty good. But although there may be some shades of grey, Shakespeare is without question well over the line. To be honest, I'd leave out the Vegetius as well, except that one can argue that he is mainly epitomizing earlier sources.
EDIT: Actually 'The Gods favour the bold' probably comes from Terence originally, by way of Vergil.
This is the one I was thinking of.
If I recall correctly, that line was about being rejected in love. Not that I remember Ovid perfectly.Quote:
{Quote_65} Perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim - Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
{Author_65}Ovid
EDIT: Actually, I just realised I don't have the absolute newest quotes file, but this was still in the second most recent release.
Here are some more, from Nepos (Hannibal) and from Livy. I tried to focus on quotes about non-Romans and non-Greeks. I stopped at Livy 23:14 so if anyone wants to continue on from there, feel free.
It is not to be disputed that Hannibal surpassed other commanders in ability as much as the Romans surpassed all other people in valour.
Non est infitiandum Hannibalem tanto praestitisse ceteros imperatores prudentia, quanto populus Romanus antecedat fortitudine cunctas nationes.
Cornelius Nepos, Hannibal, 1
All things are the property of the brave.
Omnia fortium uirorum.
Reply of the invading Senonian Gauls to the Roman ambassadors, c387 BC
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 5:36
These terms a victorious enemy dictates. These, though harsh and grievous, your condition commends to you.
Haec uictor hostis imperat; haec quamquam sunt grauia atque acerba, fortuna uestra uobis suadet.
Speech of Alorcus, on behalf of Hannibal, to the Saguntines.
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 21:13
“They are but the resemblances, nay, are rather the shadows of men; being worn out with hunger, cold, dirt, and filth, and bruised and enfeebled among stones and rocks.”
“Umbrae hominum, fame, frigore, inluuie, squalore enecti, contusi ac debilitati inter saxa rupesque”
P. Cornelius Scipio to his troops concerning Hannibal’s army after its crossing of the Alps, November 218 BC
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 21:40
Here, soldiers, where you have first met the enemy, you must conquer or die.
Hic uincendum aut moriendum, milites, est.
Hannibal, before the battle of the Ticinus, November 218 BC
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 21:43
The confidence and courage of the attacker are greater than those of the defender.
Quanto maior spes, maior est animus inferentis uim quam arcentis.
Hannibal
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 21:44
“Now will I offer this victim to the shades of my countrymen, miserably slain.”
“Iam ego hanc uictimam manibus peremptorum foede ciuium dabo".
Ducarius the Insubrian Gaul, before killing Flaminius at Lake Trasimene
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 22:6
“Let us die, soldiers, and by our deaths rescue the surrounded legions from ambuscade”
"Moriamur, milites, et morte nostra eripiamus ex obsidione circumuentas legiones"
M. Calpurnius Flamma, at Camarina, First Punic War, c258 BC
Livy, Ad urbe condita, 22:60
Urg- fantastic stuff.
Saldunz- I don't know what version you have but this is number 65 now:
Quote:
{Author_65} Adherbal, The Jugurthine War, Ch. XIV
{Quote_65} Shall our family, then, never be at peace? Shall we always be harassed with war, bloodshed, and exile?
I read the original Latin just to make sure it was really there, but it didn't strike me before that it doesn't actually mean "all things are the property of the brave" or "To the brave belong all things": Omnia fortium uirorum (esse) is "all (be) to the strong men" literally. If you'll indulge me, this sounds quite poetic in reconstructed Gaulish: *Papon uirobo peprobo buetQuote:
Originally Posted by Urg
I like it. But is it Senonian Gallic? :beam: Just kidding.
On the latin quote, I may be a bit rusty (its been about 10 years since I studied it). But isn't "fortium uirorum" genitive, not dative?
"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
Apparently it comes from some Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BCE. I know its as far from EBs time frame as a ww2 quote, but its a cool quote! How much have we really change from the ancient times?
Anyway, I cant find a good source for the quote, so I dont even know if its real. Maybe someone here can help me out? Anyone recognize it?
Bah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
It very literally and clearly does mean "all things are the property of the brave". Genitives in Latin have the nasty habit of indicating possession, even in Livy. This example follows that general rule and shows possession.
By then we could add the General Patton's quote I find most memorable, which has a nice ring to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man.", which would be cute considering the timeframe the game is on. :D
"A woman is a creature that is always shopping. " - Ovid
Can someone get a source for this?
and esse is what form of the verb?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
Esse is the present infinitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
The complete sentence from Livy is very long, but to make sense of the latin here is a chunk of the sentence which puts the quote in its context:
"cum illi se in armis ius ferre et omnia fortium uirorum esse ferociter dicerent"
which translates as:
"...and on their fiercely replying, that they carried their right in their swords, that all things were the property of the brave..."
That translation is from the 1850s and is a bit dated. In my view a better modern translation would give the verb "esse" a present tense (ie. "all things are the property..."). Not only is this a better translation for modern english, but it also more accurately reflects the fact that esse is present (infinitive) tense.
The reason it is infinitive is quite simple. It follows the verb dicerent, ie. "They said that all things are the property of the brave..."
Latin isn't my strong point: am I wrong is associating this esse with Cato's Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam ('furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed') so that it has an imperative or subjunctive function ''all things should belong to the brave"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Urg
"Furthermore, (I) think Carthage (must) be destroyed"
You are right.
Mine's pretty rusty too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
The ordinary meaning of esse is "to be". In linguistic speak it is the "infinitive" (eg. to run, to bite, etc) of the verb sum ("I am"). In english the same verb has many forms even in its present tense (eg. I am, he is, they are).
In latin the verb esse also has a special role to play alongside other verbs. In the example you give the verb is delendam esse which is a conjugation of the verb deleo (I destroy), delere (to destroy).
The form delendam esse is what is called the "gerundive" (we do not have it in english) and implies a requirement to do, or not to do, something. Delendam esse literally means "it is required to be destroyed".
Esse is also used with latin verbs to form other tenses and forms.
Does that make sense?
So the answer to your question is: esse is the same word on each occasion, but it has a wholly different meaning in each case.
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I was just reading History of the Peloponnesian War when I came across this beautiful quote:
This day will be the beginning of great misfortune for the Hellenes. - Melesippus, the final Spartan herald to Athens, on being rebuffed by the Athenians, 431 BC
Thucydides (edited by Robert B. Strassler, trans. by Richard Crawley), History of the Peloponnesian War (as presented within Strassler's The Landmark Thucydides), Book Two, 2.12.3
Nothing to do with passive periphrastics (though they can be in indirect speech too as Cato's comment was related), but subordinate to a verb of thinking/knowing/saying/etc. (here dicerent) the infinitive is indeed translated as a finite verb in indirect discourse. Thanks for trying to prove other people are wrong twice within three (or four) words in something you're admittedly unsure of though; that takes some balls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
Hey I didn't mind him asking a question about the quote I found. It gave me the chance to review my understanding of latin.
Latin is, admittedly, a bit confusing at times.
Ah well, in that case buet isn't the correct form in Gaulish, or probably isn't, because the consensus is that it's the 3rd person subjunctive of the verb meaning "to be". So it's literally "(that) all is of the brave/strong men"? *Papon uiron pepron biet - assuming *papon < Proto-Celtic *kwakwo- is neuter. Don't know why I assumed that, really.
Here's two from the bible,
"So be strong and courageous! Do not be afrais and panic before them for the lord your god will personally go ahead of you."
- The Bible (Deuteronomy 31:6)
"Just as death and destruction are never satisfied, so human desire is never satisfied."
- The Bible (Proverbs 27:20)
I cannot get a hebrew translation because I don't trust online translators and I don't have an extensive knowledge on hebrew.
(The verses are from the NLT[New Living Translation])
I haven't read all the quotes yet so I may post something already stated
I noticed the thread asked for usually overlooked quotes so here is what I came up with.
I am putting these up from memory, so feel free to correct me I won't be offended.
"They make a desert and call it peace"-Calgachus
"Why should we share the penalty when we do not share the guilt? Why should we pay taxes when we have no part in the honours, the commands, the policy making?"-Hortensia
"Qui Bono (Who benefits)"-Cicero, trial of Sextus Roscius
"I can not stop for even as I do this I fear one day the order may be given for Rome"-Scipio Aemelianus
""Writing a poem you can read to no one is like dancing in
the dark."-Ovid
I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know whether the following quote of Thucydides has been mentioned. (I didn't spot it in the first posts)
Although his history and the subject it deals with doesn't fall within the EB time frame I'd say it's still pretty much relevant due to the partly Hellenic setting. (and is still as it gives a good idea of the 'realist' point of view in international relations)
History of the Peloponnesian War, b5 89 according to Richard Crawley.Quote:
Athenians. For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretences--either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us--and make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did not join the Lacedaemonians, although their colonists, or that you have done us no wrong, will aim at what is feasible, holding in view the real sentiments of us both; since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
I consulted Jowett's and Hobbs' translation as well, but due to the use of language I thought Richards Crawley's translation suited the setting the best.
Since I'm not schooled in ancient Greek I'm not sure how his translation holds up, but seeing what you've already gathered I'm confident you'll be able to make that assessment. (on that account Jowett's translation would probably be more authorative)
I could probably find the original Greek online, but I have reason to believe you will have better access to good sources in that respect.
Crawley's translation is available at wikisource:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Histor...ian_War/Book_5
Ah.. a search did show just now that you've included the quote in another thread, however. Still, it has not been a complete waste of time, since before this I had no idea Thomas Hobbs had translated Thucydides. ;)
"By decree of the senate mourning is not to exceed thirty days"-Senatus Consultam following the battle of Cannae
i read in a romance by coleen mcl something :\ on the book "1st man of rome" that ceaser was suposed to have told a young 19 year old vercingetorige "you may speak with passion and that will bring you suporters, but unleass you temper your passion with inteligence you will be able to provide your suporters with what they need/want" or something like that wich could be interesting :book:
Please take the time and have a look at the first page. There is an example of the exact format the quotes should be posted in.
Then why are Bible quotes being included?Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
The Bible was either written a long time before or almost century after EB's timeframe.
It is historically and culturally insignificant in this time period.
I'll start demanding Táin quotes pretty soon if I see Bible quotes...
And you obviously don't know your bible scholarship.Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishHitman
The Bible was written and rewritten throughout our timeframe, but most of the books of the old testament were written in their final form in about the 5th Century BC. I'm not sure about New Testament books, but the Gospels were written at most a couple of hundred years after. All were written in a world that was recognisable and part of the common heritage of people of that time. It is historically and culturally significant in our time period.
Shakespeare appears in a world that was some 1800 years after our start date. If you cannot see the difference in that, then I'm at a loss for words.
Foot