What part of "I'm voting Maple cause I think they're wolf" are you not getting.
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Wisdom is likely just a wolf with Maple Ender
Wisdom if you were scumreading Maple, why not mention it until I asked you directly? Given the position of Maple since mid-D2 that should be a slot of great interest
I think it's very possible that the inverter is town, didn't understand that inverters wasn't a strict debuff, and targetted Maple N1 thinking it was a debuff
Then probably targetted Jan N2 after Maple claimed they were self-resolvable from it bc Jan doesn't look the best but looks like the best or second best of the PR claims depending on your personal take
I never played with dolby but he seems like an obvious villager based on pure posting
Kinda ok just clearing him tbh
Bbl
Ender did we just become masons
(not really but I am liking you in this sequence)
knights reads super towny to me, a little detail I like here is him making sure Rasks "alignment" gets framed correctly wrt vote logic, as that is something i pondered over as well immediately after he flipped. so probs just towncoring him at this point.
the role stuff goes over my head and I am a bit worried to just accept all of these conclusions as what i want to go off, but um:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
knights soft clears wisdom for being firefighter in #2340 (was it ever proven she has that role in the first place?),
and also considering dyachei's role in particular (but honestly even without), can a wolf firefighter not exist without another firefighter or an arsonist at all? just to act as a rolestopper for dyachei?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
also knights about #2343 I am super hesitant about clearing wisdom for a an early claim per se btw. Because they did that in the last 12h/12h game on MafiaUniverse, which is what made me like squint immediately at that lol. I think they claimed um, Neapolitan or something on there. As wolf Rolecop iirc. Like obviously "u did that last game so you're a wolf again" is a stupid read which is why I didn't verbalize it but it's been gnawing at me.
knights - said above
insomnia - idk hes being a villagery potato (he might get mad at this but i dont mean his solving just his... style of posting lol). also arctic agreeing with me makes me feel fine i dont have a reason to doubt this. - also same question about you as about dya for the same reason. why dont wolves kill u? you got a HUNCH maybe? also not related to your alignment
dyachei - claim (why are they still alive. this isnt to question their alignment but why didnt the wolves nk them? kinda odd idgi)
vanta - i vaguely like his posts and i just sheep bops n1 check on them (he was probably halfjoking about that being a serious read on the post Vanta made and i choose to not care becuz it's the funnier option hehe)
these are town imo thats where i am currently at and if i talked about others i'd be uh, not confident.
(I have not read every post that was posted today, but im kinda getting there some of you write some complicated shit ngl, just wanted to give an update lol)
mostly for @Wisdom becuz im not sure this is helpful to anyone
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
On this note:
Can I talk to you about Benneh/Sunbae?
I think there's definitely a wolf in there from how D1 went with me.
Yes, yes, self-centred reads. But I have caught wolves with em before and you know that. (I want Maple over today but this is definitely a direction I want to explore for tomorrow/later.)
I have seperated inverter and inventor in the other context, I think it was just in that post my brain went brr.
Do we have any proof an invertor actually exists outside Maple? Who got inverted n2? If town, who's the inverter?
I'm ngl this feels very performative.
I do feel it might be uncharitable of me but:
This is a lot of talking about how they're going to do Good Villager Things without doing Good Villager Things.
I'll see how it progresses but I don't remember Sunbae!Town talking so much about how they're gonna do the Thing.tm instead of just doing things.
think they are a area I explore if I begin feeling that I'm wrong on the Ladd/you portion of my scumreads (mainly moreso Ladd bc Benneh/Ladd is not a full on dichotomy). I think I eval Vanta/Monty/Gemma as well. I also just don't feel like there's necessarily a wolf between them based on D1?
Also gonna say I am straight up townreading Benneh
Sunbae: I've done a review of EOD1 and D2 and Monty/Ladd/Knights/Dya look towny
Me: *Stares at d2 reads where those were 4 of my main reads.*
Having Maple v for a bit may be towny disconnection with the thread state tbh given they re-evaled quickly (though I want to burn both with fire still)
though I still dislike that Wisdom is going for what I view as the easiest miselims in the thread here? Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte I'm inclined to say as 0 wolves (despite my last statement saying Gemma/Vanta/Monte are places I look if wrong on ladd/ender (sidenote that I think that Monte if non-town is very likely 3p not wolf))
You're forgetting that I'm doing what I can with limited information. I haven't read half d2 and when I don't have enough information on someone I sheep the consensus (ie Knights/Insomnia) but when I find wolfy stuff I'm gonna point it out.
Last game I had here I was pushed all game because my reads weren't consensus. I was wrong on Syn being wolf and he got yeeted d1. I had Logic town d1-d3 and then he got misyeeted. I had Benneh/Hally in my PoE almost all game despite both being consensus town read and after I got misyeeted Hally continued to solo win.
I have good intuition and I know to trust myself and that sometimes it's better to listen to others and sometimes I should listen to my gut and my reasons.
Like, the knights posts I've seen all have looked towny but not unfakeable. Same with Sunbae. And since they aren't focused in thread, I don't prioritze trying to find micro stuff on them because that's going to be easier with more flips anyway.
I might be a sucker but the Wisdom "Vote: Grr" "Unvote: I was looking at the wrong day" sequence reads kinda town to me.
not really?
He is in the poe, but I don't know if he is more sus than he was yesterday.
I am trying to process if knights still tunneling me right now is a terrible village tunnel or a wolf using a crutch.
And it annoys me. A part of me wants to jail him spam "a/s/l?" in prison all night and kill him if he doesn't make me chuckle.
But I should pick someone that is more likely to flip wolf tbh.
Ladd wanting Maple dead when I can at least confirm that the invert part of the claim is real is another problem.
Not sure if I am giving too much leeway or not.
Not sure if Maple is be wolf kp that got inverted and still keeps it. (Inverting is more twisting than fully changing roles a far as I can tell).
The World claim fits well with the roleclaim (world is the last and highest card of the high arcana to my limited knowledge, which fits with the ability to draw all those lower cards).
"Whenever it comes up, this card represents what is truly desired."
I will not bet the game on a claim being a good flavor fit. But it does give me pause and adds to my doubt.
What if I told you I believe the core of Maple's claim is true but just think it's a wolfy role esp with how limited I feel like most of the full claimed town have been?
Like Maple has implied they can provide unlimited cards (esp with a card N1 and supposedly one N2.)
When every other town has very strongly implied a restriction except maybe the Jailkeeper in terms of how often you can use the power.
Inventer feels more like a wolf role in that context shrug.
Look, I'm sorry if this comes off rude @Wisdom
But most of your questions have been talked about in thread already.
Esp Jan's claim and timing.
And it's 1:30am for me. And I'm trying to get caught up and post thoughts I want into thread before sleeping for work. Which I'm already under-sleep for.
I just don't have time to hand-hold you through this shit when it's in thread already.
Vote: Maple
The restriction was that he can only self-target and the inventions are rather random.
Being inverted seems to be upgrade or at least a twist that changes utility.
I don't know. either maple is the scapegoat for wolves to sacrifice that somehow has the best claim or the villager that is most vulnerable.
And with each additional scummy person pushing the slot I get more worried.
@grr
did you miss the part of Jan JKing me last night? That's why Im alive
I claimed pr and said that I don't think my role could be inverted. (my assumption was inverse of protect + roleblock would be kill + motivate, which was weird but if it works I would not mind it)
And then got inverted at night.
I only claimed jk today. I wanted to wait for ender to arrive and wait for his claim because some people tried to push protective on him yesterday.
But I realized that it does not actually make a difference and my info might help solve mech stuff. (night kill, inverter etc). plus I love how my role got inverted and wanted to share it. :X
I didn't. You misunderstood me (I wasn't very clear). He and Ender should have been in between the other two piles as a "possibly pr" pile. I just didn't think about him (mainly due to not knowing if he had already done his self resolving or not) until the end and editing posts on phone is hell.
Also, I didn't mean that all 4 in Gemma/you/Vanta/Monte are wolves, just that it would make the game easier if you were (and I didn't have any tr's there but I think your recent posts are towny). Wolf!Ladd and Wolf!Manti are both hard to yeet.
Hi I'm scummy person #3 coming for Maple's ass.
But unlimited Self-targeting Inventor sounds ~fine? Vs limited shots and other restrictions.
But even mech aside, I'm having trouble seeing a world where Maple's "I'm self-resolving!" plea right before a 3 death night is anything but a play to stay alive to unload KP. Esp with the lame-duck "Oh oopsie I sent my card to dead Arctic." as the follow up.
As for everyone piling on now, if Maple has sent off all the main KP they had, then wolves might have just accepted they have to bus today because there's no saving Maple.
I know if I was partners with Maple that'd be my read of gamestate.
Sometimes you read a thread and think "It feels like only villagers are playing right now".
For some reason reading the last page makes me feel the opposite.
Btw @grr reason I claimed pr d2 last game was because that's how I play as town unless it's a super important role. I think d2 claims are op because it makes life so much harder for wolves. Even d1 bucket steat is op but that's just really boring. Much better to use it to steer town into a better path when people are waisting too much time trying to solve me!
+ Claims are pretty much obligatory in roleflipless. In my homecom (full flipless) I always claim doc in f3 and win because people suck at claiming before dying.
@Jan
Maple is a dead player walking today imo? I think that Maple is a wolf and is going over bc they were probably gonna be the d2 from having a bad eod1 that looks worse now that rask flipped 3p. Maple is always dying today since a living player didn't get the card. Honestly I think Maple's cards are real but they are not clearing and they might have activated their PGO and Arctic tried to shoot her (and the PGO granted death immunity).
Lets look at the votes on Maple over the course of the game before today
Maple's first vote comes on D2 despite being moderately sussed by a few people d1. That vote comes from didistetter a dead town
Next vote comes from ladd. I think that Ladd is possibly teammed with Maple. I talked a bit in a prior post that despite being on Maple for a good part of the day there wasn't really any effort from ladd to get other people onto Maple, and maple wasn't really mentioned by ladd in the meantime much despite being his vote. Ithink it's partnered
Dolby (that's me!) is the next vote on Maple, I'm town
Gemma votes Maple, I guess Gemma could be mafia but I feel that it's pretty likely that Syn was the only major wolf wagon at eod1
Rask votes Maple, dead 3P
Insomnia votes Maple, I think Insomnia is just a villager, had a good D1, and is maybe threadspewed
Benneh votes Maple, I think Benneh is fine, could be a wolf but I think he's fine
I am not concerned that suspicious people are getting on Maple on Day Three. I'm ignoring D3 bc I think that over the course of teh day 2/3rds of people are going to have votes on Maple. I think that suspicious people avoided having their votes be on Maple d2. So to be quite frank I am not concerned that Maple is being pushed, they are kinda the presumptive yeet.
What does PGO mean when it doesn't mean Pokémon GO?
yeah did miss it, um. well i mean if u were also a designated wolfkill then we'd be dealing with like, dealing with 3? wolf kills in one night tho wtf. yeah idk whats going on.
@insomnia btw what are we doing if maple flips town and ur dead tomorrow xD we have still time but im not sure what I should be doing then rofl.
@Wisdom yeah alright seen ur reply (i'd say hally decidedly ain't me but im not stopping you from forming ur own opinions you do you, i am not rly getting anything out of this rn so i dont wanna keep being entangled in it!)
I'll get back when I think I can contribute something useful sorry bronanas.
Paranoid gun owner.
Maple claimed to give herself a one shot PGO N1. Knights brought up that Arctic said that his flavor (death) was a likely KP role (pretty much a soft to be found after his death that he was a town vig of some sort), and Maple was at the very bottom of his last reads list.
My personal take is that Arctic died trying to shoot maple and maybe Maple also had a shield from a card? Can't really see any other world besides him being roleblocked or redirected into Bop or Stett, which I doubt.
@Maple
do you pick your card target during the day or at nighttime?
i'd honestly still like ender to claim cause i still feel the mech aspect of the game is a bit of a mess right now but i know i am not in a position to request anything
jan/dya are villagers ldo
dolby/insomnia/grr are my next clears
i still find it super hard to buy the firefighter claim mechanically speaking ngl
Alrighty I need to re-review Ladd because I could be wrong and a lot of people think it.
But aside from that I think my current line is like...
Maple > One of Benneh/Sunbae > Wisdom/Dolby/Insom?
I'm gonna assume one of the wolves is deep in general because I'm townreading a lot of people.
I kinda liked a few of Insom's posts tbh which makes me wanna remove them off that list, but idk.
I think Dya/Knights/Jan are town. Vanta is more along their town play than wolf. Gemma I think the same.
Grr I like but don't have a ~solid reason to think they're definitely town.
And Monty is 3p.
Anyway, I'm actually awake to say g'night this time instead of falling asleep at my computer while reading.
I'll be back at my regularly scheduled time, about 20-22ish hours from now.
Gemma has pretty much the same reads as I do.
If she's w/w with both Maple and Ladd I don't think her only focus today would be ladd/maple/wisdom.
So if Ladd/Maple are w/w I don't think Gemma is wolfing but Gemmas play is quite narrow/static from what I've seen so she probably still a wolf.
Implying Maple/Ladd not being w/w.
if manti is not wolf, you just kill ladd. but even if manti is a wolf i'd still consider him
we're 3 days in and i don't want to be a d***, but ladd has done nothing but stalling all of these days. villa ladd has a push he can make by now and the ones he attempted to do were all on villas, which i've already said
there's just no strong callout on anyone anymore or an attempt to shake things up and it's starting to only get wolfier and wolfier as the game progresses
he needs to push someone and / or make a case toDay or at least let us know who his wolf reads are and why. this attitude of just calling villas and shying away from calling wolves I don't associate with his villa play at all
i think it's hard for the wolves to push people especially when erryone has a DAMN CLAIM
his posting ever since d2 has felt like he's simply walking on eggshells in a way that is pinging the hell out of me. he's really careful with his callouts to the point where he just shades a few people for some things and then just does nothing but reinforce villa reads. this has felt like his gameplay all game long except his pushes (which were more shades than pushes imo) have all been villas thus far
if he's not a wolf then i really struggle with the game. i think it's pretty obvious from his position if V that not all the claimers can be wolves and he's left with only a few names to dig in, but most importantly i really hate that he doesn't focus on benneh / sunbae here when it feels like that's an obvious blindspot to reaearch
apparently he's pushing wisdom / maple is what i'm gathering
ladd / maple / benneh / sunbae / wisdom / montmorency remain my PoE. idk, if this is like 1/4 or 2/4 then idek where to look at. is the entire team just claiming PRs? i doubt so
i kinda like dolby's posting even though i really hated some of the things he was pointing out cuz they seemed really bad faith. don't ask me for examples
i don't really get why ender is being pushed
we have a dozen PR claims and no conclusive thoughts on benneh / sunbae who have nothing going for them. benneh actually was pushing ender which is just really bad to me, but I guess I could be heavily underestimating Ender's wolfing prowess, he just seems villagery to me /shrug. kinda feels like the times I had him wolf where times where i'd just open his ISO and not think anything of him or I'd have to really force myself to find reasons to villa read him, whereas in here I just holistically villa read him on everything. toan, solving, all of it
Ladd is Benneh a wolf read of yours rn and if so can they or are they more likely to be a wolf with Wisdom? I feel like Benneh/Wisdom has been an interesting link point in your reads over the game. In that like, you've called Wisdom mildly towny d1 then a wolf d2, but Benneh called you a likely wolf if Wisdom was a wolf and idk there's been some posts you've quoted from Benneh where Benneh had Wisdom as the focus of the post and I don't think you really needed to have a take on this before now (maybe Benneh having a post basically saying he wanted to go Wisdom -> you if Wisdom red is an exception), but I'd like a take on if Benneh is wolf and if Benneh/wisdom can be teammed from you.
i guess i don't like that ladd is using the PRs as cover for wolf pushes
my point is not that he doesn't push specifically sunbae / benneh. my point is that he is not researching the wolves outside the PR claimers, which is how we'll win the game. the PR claimers that are wolves are going to be resolved eventually without us doing anything, unless the wolves wish to keep them all alive
(but i do think there's 2/3 in sunbae / benneh / ladd, and maple is a wolf)
i'll answer the rest tomorrow cause i dont have time right now to give an answer that would be of any help to u nor dolby
but my bottom 4 yesterday was literally sunbae/benneh/maple/monti. u expect me to push them hard but its august i am lazy and i dont feel like pushing people hard this game, thats genuinely all there is to it
No one said anything about you killing someone. The Mafia killed someone by their own strategy, right? Without speaking for Mafia, as far as the consensus town goes as of the state of play N1, if stetter was the gold, NC was the silver. At least, you could say they were comparably-reasonable NKs.
Without going back and forth on our interpretations of WIFOM, we should know to a fair degree of certainty as of SOD 4 whether an arsonist has died.
In general, I would be careful with inference from lack of CCs in a role-flipless game. A lot of townies are already dead.
Separately, it might be time to put together a proposed outline for the PR structure of the game.
We could figure, going by claims (knights' world):
* Rask Neutral vig (arson?)
* Ender Town unknown
* Jan Town JK
* dya Town 1-shot vig
* Maple Town inventor
* ? gifted by inventor
* Wisdom Town firefighter
* Arctic Town vig??
* ? Town? inverter??
Plus any unknown dead PRs.
Does that add up? It doesn't for me, although t-Jan always dies before t-Wisdom I should think.
Did Maple make a serious gun owner claim or was that another joke? I can't parse. But either way, that sounds too YOLO for vig-Arctic to mess with. I think Arctic was just SPK. I practically town-cored him D1. Mafia always kills stetter, Arctic, and NC ASAP, no less for being like the top posters.
Great point.
For info, obviously. I didn't vote Syn because there was no point, he was buried.
I don't recall accusing you of being an arsonist. Weird reaction. Don't slip on me.
Rask, btw, had a rather town-meta reaction to dya's CC IMO. When Rask gets into thunderdome territory or adjacent he becomes quite ornery as town IME. Also, leave 3P alone, you have nothing on Rask. So, who did you target N2?
Compare ladd's treatment of dyachei, and maybe Kagemusha, in that game, to how he treated syn in this game. Very similar structure.
Even now no one has an idea of what the hell "inverted" is.
How does ladd-Ender-Maple-Wisdom sound? Bingo bango? Just remember that ladd-Gemma-Wisdom doesn't work.
But I really think ladd is the linchpin. If the PR claims all turn out legit, having ladd dusted is the difference between victory and defeat. Steamrolling Town PRs Maple and Wisdom because they're sketchy is a literal game-winning Mafia dream because it likely puts us at LYLO.
Why?
No antispewing.Quote:
Dolby, Wisdom, and I thought it'd be funny to distance in thread. Sorry you had to come in while that was going on.
I'm not great at interpreting the subtleties of softs in general, but is there any more evidence for that conclusion on Arctic as KP? But even if he was, why would he butt heads with someone who claimed PGO?
Note: From D1, ladd-Gemma-Wisdom is rejected.
Note: I could swear Maple had promised to shoot within my solve, but I can't find that anywhere. Did I hallucinate it? Because if not, it would be an odd thing for an inventor with no despo shots to promise.
Note: I think Town has lost control of the thread today. My wim is fading.
lolsob
Re: Maple's gift, I'm stupid. He emphasized gifting Arctic, and Arctic is dead, so naturally no one could claim the gift today. @Dolby why did you thank my other post instead of pointing out the logical failure?
Arctic said that he thought that the death flavor was likely town KP, and then when he died his flavor flipped as death
I think that was the only flavor comment he made the whole game
Maple claimed to give herself a one shot PGO N1 (she claimed to NOT use it last night) and that she gave her N2 card to Arctic
If anyone wants to claim to have visited maple last night that could be useful. I didn't
ladd-ender-wisdom-maple is my current team but I have a much higher level of doubt on ender rn. I think that Maple is just a sure hit
Monty, I think I thanked that post bc I wanted to indicate to you that I intended to ask Maple what her minor arcana (the inventions she's gifting out) did. I don't think I registered that you didn't realize Arctic was the claimed target
Yeah, but are comments like that crumbs, or just Apophenia?
I'm going to struggle my way through finishing and ISOing D1 for Syn and wagonomics. Maybe it'll reveal something beyond my world around Ender et al. But it's hard for me to find the motivation to fully analyze anyone while ladd's alive. Be assured that however ladd flips, I would take a close look at Ender first of all.
But that still doesn't explain why Arctic would attack someone who claimed automatic point defense (leaving aside the apparent Maple claim that it didn't activate).
Otherwise, if t-Maple/m-ladd, then everything tomorrow rides on you and insomnia being alive and town.
I had a lot last night but I think waking up and catching up has removed it. Which is fine. Old me would have dug their heels in and forced themself to barrel through despite the fact that nobody really cares about anything I'm saying (and havent all game!) until people got the message. It's why I was rarely mischopped! New me just caught up and said "hm, alright then, yall do you and ill go to lunch and say glgl" which, tbh, feels absolutely divine.
Monty seems pretty villagery fwiw
This is a role flipless game, I believe that he left that intending for it to be remembered after his death so that any kills he made couldn't be fake claimed by mafia
I don't think there's a reason for him to mention his own flavor, without prompt, as town, and say that that flavor is likely a KP role. This is the only thing he did it to I think
I think that Arctic just thought that Maple's claim was BS. He had Maple as his biggest sus at the end of day.
I am admitidly not that confident that he shot Maple specifically, he could have been redirected or roleblocked instead, but I don't think with three kills he was roleblocked and I think the explanation I just laid out makes more sense than him being identified and redirected AND killed
Also me saying I had most doubt on Ender was that Ender is my least confident wolfread.
If it helps I re-ISOd Vanta recently, didn't say anything about it but I think they are probably town still. Gemma/Sunbae/Benneh are probably the other slots I have to reevaluate
Also: I don't think wolves are in control today. I think that Maple is just a hit, I think Maple would have been a hit yesterday. If it is Sunbae/Benneh we still have time to catch them but I should work to make myself more confident in them (particularly Sunbae). I will reread Gemma but I still think the circumstances of D1 make Gemma and Knights town (I have Knights good on like, every front).
Sunbae at present what are your strongest reads?