So, I can't shake help but shake the feeling that GH and Kage are teamed, but here is the biggest evidence AGAINST the theory that I can find:
------------------------------------------------------------ Day One, Final Tally
3 El Barto:skull: (Montmorency, Kagemusha, GeneralHankerchief)
Not Voting: Sooh
------------------------------------------------------------
There is no good reason I can think of for both scum to be on a D1 wagon mislynch and kill the only other person on the same wagon the following night. I'll have to ISO GH next.
03-30-2018, 18:57
Csargo
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Ok, thanks.
So overall it would be safe to say that you don't really have a particularly strong scumread on Kage but he's still a bit worse-looking than everyone else?
Yeah, I don't have a Manasi level scumread on him, but he's done enough in my mind that he's worthy of being at the bottom of my list imo.
03-30-2018, 19:05
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Yeah, I don't have a Manasi level scumread on him, but he's done enough in my mind that he's worthy of being at the bottom of my list imo.
Speaking of Manasi, can you elaborate your take on her? Your read of her in your earlier main post was the shortest by far, just wondered if there was anything more.
03-30-2018, 20:14
Csargo
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Speaking of Manasi, can you elaborate your take on her? Your read of her in your earlier main post was the shortest by far, just wondered if there was anything more.
Not really. I find it pretty hard to read Manasi most of the time. I felt the disillusionment with the state of the game seemed genuine, I share the same sentiment to a degree, but that seemed townie to me at least. Other than that I've just gotten good vibes from her posts, the content has been good I've thought as well. It's probably more of a gut read than anything else honestly.
What do you think of her so far?
03-30-2018, 20:21
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Not really. I find it pretty hard to read Manasi most of the time. I felt the disillusionment with the state of the game seemed genuine, I share the same sentiment to a degree, but that seemed townie to me at least. Other than that I've just gotten good vibes from her posts, the content has been good I've thought as well. It's probably more of a gut read than anything else honestly.
What do you think of her so far?
I'm coming around more and more to Kage being town, so a lot of folks are dropping for me as a consequence and Manasi is one of the biggest droppers. Yeah she looked good but the more I think about it, the disillusionment thing is reasonably easy to fake and something that's not necessarily indicative of her alignment. She could just have been excited to play a game on the Org in this particular environment and have been ready to pull the wool over people like Monty's and my eyes.
03-30-2018, 21:20
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
@Dp101, I know you've got RL stuff, but if you could give your input on things sooner rather than later, I'd greatly appreciate it.
03-30-2018, 23:20
Logic
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
There is a reasonable chance I won't be online enough for more than glances during the weekend.
03-30-2018, 23:27
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
There is a reasonable chance I won't be online enough for more than glances during the weekend.
When do you see yourself logging out for the rest of the phase?
03-31-2018, 01:07
Logic
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
When do you see yourself logging out for the rest of the phase?
The wife's spring break starts NOW. And she wants to do stuff. So I might be able to log in tomorrow morning, early my time. But that is probably all you will get from me this phase. If I do log in, I plan to do GH's ISO.
03-31-2018, 01:19
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
The wife's spring break starts NOW. And she wants to do stuff. So I might be able to log in tomorrow morning, early my time. But that is probably all you will get from me this phase. If I do log in, I plan to do GH's ISO.
Don't bother.
I hardclaim Tracker.
I tracked Csargo and he visited Monty last night.
Vote: Csargo
03-31-2018, 01:23
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Q: Is this serious/real?
100% yes. The only way it isn't is if my track was tampered with in some way, and considering this game started out with 9 players I consider that highly unlikely.
Q: Why claim now?
I was originally going to hold off until D3 considering Sooh is the most likely N2 kill, but if we got this lynch wrong it would have put us in LYLO and I want no part of that. Considering Csargo as well as the people I believe are most likely to be his partners are pushing Kage, and Kage is currently the leading candidate, I decided to claim now. This way we still got some information out of the round but everyone will (hopefully) see this in time to move their votes accordingly.
Q: Why did you track Csargo?
Because he was the most clear player. If you're mafia, you're going to assign your most clear player to do the kill.
Q: I don't believe you.
Sorry. Lynch me if you must, but you'll see my flip.
Good job GH! So my hunch about Csarco was right while i was wrong about Barto. I still havent lost it.Vote:Csargo
If Csargo flips scum we definetely have sometihng to work with.:2thumbsup:
03-31-2018, 07:27
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Catching up, this post worries me, a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Here's Dp's full amount of posts since subbing in:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
(re: Manasi thinking Kage's early wall was suspicious and weird)
(re: my early takes on Csargo and Sooh being town and Kage possibly being mafia)
N1
re: Csargo saying there hasn't been much discourse going on
responding to Kage about his townreads on Csargo and Manasi
responding to Manasi directly asking him for his take on Kage
responding to Manasi about the game being low-activity
responding to Kage asking Manasi why she's so aggressive
responding to Manasi about how she left Dp out of her reads.
I don't think this is town Dp. I just don't. I get that he's rusty. I get that he's been super busy IRL. I also don't care. The thing I look for with Dp is that super pure tone. That's not a feature that really needs extended immersion in the game to make itself known, like Logic's effort for example. It just naturally rises to the surface. And it hasn't here.
I find this level of aggression from you extremely... unsettling. You are expecting me to be completely pure in tone, and also somehow think that I can get that even while not being fully in thread? Like, imo, the main thing that good tone stems from is being extremely in-sync with how the thread is feeling, and that's near-impossible to have while not being around that much. I agree that my participation here has been spotty at best, and I did not anticipate being quite this rusty when I returned to the game. Honestly the "let's throw DP under the bus 100% with complete certainty and expect him to do things that he can't/doesn't (such as have good tone while not being around)" feels extremely reminiscent of my last org game with you as scum.
03-31-2018, 07:28
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Don't bother.
I hardclaim Tracker.
I tracked Csargo and he visited Monty last night.
Vote: Csargo
Welp, lolme. Ignore everything I just said in my last post. Vote: Csargo
If you lied about this, I'm coming for your head tomorrow.
03-31-2018, 07:38
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Not really. I find it pretty hard to read Manasi most of the time. I felt the disillusionment with the state of the game seemed genuine, I share the same sentiment to a degree, but that seemed townie to me at least. Other than that I've just gotten good vibes from her posts, the content has been good I've thought as well. It's probably more of a gut read than anything else honestly.
What do you think of her so far?
I feel like this is... probably something that's said more towards a wolf than a villager? Like, it feels like Csargo was internally going "ok, time to talk about a consensus town, this shouldn't be too hard", and then thought he could get away with saying a fair amount of vague good-sounding things that are similar to what others have said, relying on the fact that people are mostly already agreeing as a way to get out of having to fake too much work. If Manasi was scum with csargo here, I'd expect either a. continuing the "I can't really read manasi" thing throughout the post rather than trying to construct a townread that might link them together, or b. having more specific reasons to give the townread rather than just going with the flow. To expand on the latter option, if I thought I was fairly secure and had an opportunity to talk about a scumbuddy who was doing well, I'd emphasise what has been getting them townread as hard as I can, in order to try and support them more and hopefully promote us as a towncore. Instead, there's this weird non-specific read.
03-31-2018, 07:38
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
@Dp101, I know you've got RL stuff, but if you could give your input on things sooner rather than later, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Yeah, sorry, trying to lay stuff out now.
03-31-2018, 07:44
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
I'd put you higher than Dp101 purely because I can get a better read on you going forward than I can Dp101.
I feel fairly good about Logic currently, because his most recent stuff is pretty inline with what I remember from other games. I had him way lower initially, but his current engagement/posts have been excellent imo.
Manasi feels good at this point.
I think I'm usually pretty good at reading you, but that's probably wrong. You going along with the Barto vote so easily sort of put me off a bit. Nothing you've done since has raised my read of you all that much.
Dp101 is sort of meh hard to gauge with so little coming out from him.
Kage's summary post was odd to me, but that seems to be par for the course for D1 lists. Thought the Barto push was weird, I clearly wasn't a fan.
I think Logic's quote sums up my thoughts on Kage pretty well.
Moar attempted spew-reading attempts, since I never do this and need to get better at it, and the play is imo clearer if GH is lying so I see more value in trying to catch the scum after Csargo:
The logic read feels somewhat like providing support to a scumbuddy who has improved dramatically and trying to push that point into people's heads. If logic was town here, I feel like scum!csargo would be focussing on lacklustre prior actions rather than trying to paint a picture of improvement.
Vague Manasi read is *noted*, but not sure exactly what it means.
Tries to discredit kage via logic, in a way that strikes me as honestly weird regardless of alignment. Leaving aside the part where it's honestly fairly wrong, I'm not sure what incentive there is as either alignment to make this push based off of logic's. This would make town!logic somewhat more likely, but it's also possible that this is a wolf-team coordinating somewhat clumsily to push a mislynch (although why they wouldn't go on me is a mystery to me).
03-31-2018, 07:47
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.
03-31-2018, 09:52
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.
Vote Csargo. GH has claimed to be some sort of tracker/ detective and painted Csargo scum. Its the absolutely best we have so far. If Csargo does not flip scum. We will lynch GH next.
03-31-2018, 11:33
Sooh
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Don't bother.
I hardclaim Tracker.
I tracked Csargo and he visited Monty last night.
Vote: Csargo
Why did you track Csargo?
If he was the most clear player, wouldn't he be the most likely player to be visited?
To track someone seems to be more profitable by going after your scum reads, no?
03-31-2018, 11:34
Sooh
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Thank you for the ISO Logic. Like i said earlier if you are scum. You are playing extremely well. Your process seems very good, but conclusion is wrong. You build a case against me based on connection with GH, which you seem to be doubting very much in your Iso. So you seem to be arriving into wrong conclusion with genuine thought process, unlike Manasi who seems to be trying to use momentum in order to push who she wants to be lynched. I want to hear from the only confirmed townie aka Sooh before pushing what i have in mind.
The more I read this the less I like it.
When I read that it sounds like "I don't want to make any pushes on my own, but I'll look for whoever the clear person pushes and I'll say that I agree with one of those, especially if one isn't on my team"
03-31-2018, 11:47
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooh
The more I read this the less I like it.
When I read that it sounds like "I don't want to make any pushes on my own, but I'll look for whoever the clear person pushes and I'll say that I agree with one of those, especially if one isn't on my team"
Sooh. If Csargo is scum. I was the first person to see that. I made the push towards Barto, but i was wrong. How can you accuse me of not wanting to make my own cases when that is the exact thing i have been doing the whole game. And that is the exact same thing i do every time i play these games. It is quite frustrating being called weird, intense and ..., but that i can understand, but not wanting to make my own cases. That is just blatantly wrong. Why i wanted to wait for you was because i did not want to turn this game more into direction it was going, aka people being lazy and not going through their own process.
03-31-2018, 12:01
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
I am staunch believer of the KISS principle. If you have the most simple answer to a dilemma use it. Only if the solution is not working, find more complicated one. At this point lynching Csargo should be a no brainer. The mathematics are on the town side. No matter if GH was pulling a straight forward stupid stunt as a scum now and fake claiming a role. The town would still get a scum and afterwards the numbers would be at towns side.
03-31-2018, 12:02
Sooh
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
I still want to hear from GH regarding his selection of tracking Csargo. I also want to hear from Csargo who appear to have been stunned by this.
03-31-2018, 12:27
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
By the way. Where is Manasi? Were you not frustrated about how slow the game was and wanted activity, but disappeared yourself. Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manasi
Two of my scum reads flipped town.
Cya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
So because you were twice wrong it makes you right third time? Dont be lazy and instead make a case.
So far i see you copying what logic said earlier. Lazy, thus scummy.
Could you please share your analyze at the players, as i cant get pretty much anything from your posts?
03-31-2018, 12:57
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
I feel like this is... probably something that's said more towards a wolf than a villager? Like, it feels like Csargo was internally going "ok, time to talk about a consensus town, this shouldn't be too hard", and then thought he could get away with saying a fair amount of vague good-sounding things that are similar to what others have said, relying on the fact that people are mostly already agreeing as a way to get out of having to fake too much work. If Manasi was scum with csargo here, I'd expect either a. continuing the "I can't really read manasi" thing throughout the post rather than trying to construct a townread that might link them together, or b. having more specific reasons to give the townread rather than just going with the flow. To expand on the latter option, if I thought I was fairly secure and had an opportunity to talk about a scumbuddy who was doing well, I'd emphasise what has been getting them townread as hard as I can, in order to try and support them more and hopefully promote us as a towncore. Instead, there's this weird non-specific read.
This is interesting to me, because I consider Manasi to be one of the most likely partners so I'm definitely looking for people's takes on it (and it's why I specifically asked Csar about Manasi in the first place). That said, I'm not entirely certain I agree with your conclusion. Let's keep in mind that at the point when he answered:
a) Csargo thought he was safe/still pretty clear
b) his partner, assuming said partner was NOT Kage, was also probably safe
I would expect him to make something along the lines of this post. It seemed like smooth sailing on D2 for them, they would have gotten another mislynch, and then double LYLO would have been upon everyone on D3 where they could probably just push through one last mislynch and in the meantime clear each other. This reads to me like a little bit of a "nah she's probably fine, let's just move on" to me. Idk though.
03-31-2018, 13:02
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooh
Why did you track Csargo?
If he was the most clear player, wouldn't he be the most likely player to be visited?
To track someone seems to be more profitable by going after your scum reads, no?
Let's say Player A and Player B are mafia and one of them has to specifically carry out a kill. Player A is mostly clear, Player B isn't. Player A is probably safer to carry out the kill just in terms of there's less of a chance being tracked, roleblocked, jailed, etc. When I sent in my track I was basically always choosing between you, Csargo, and Manasi, as you three were pretty much the most clear after D1. I decided Csargo because he had even less shade on him than the other two and was the least likely to be interfered with. I also had the advantage of knowing more about the game setup than anyone else due to my role, and knew it was highly unlikely for there to be both a tracker and a roleblocker/jailkeeper in a game with 9 players. So that was another way in which Csargo's path would have been clear.
03-31-2018, 13:03
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
This is interesting to me, because I consider Manasi to be one of the most likely partners so I'm definitely looking for people's takes on it (and it's why I specifically asked Csar about Manasi in the first place). That said, I'm not entirely certain I agree with your conclusion. Let's keep in mind that at the point when he answered:
a) Csargo thought he was safe/still pretty clear
b) his partner, assuming said partner was NOT Kage, was also probably safe
I would expect him to make something along the lines of this post. It seemed like smooth sailing on D2 for them, they would have gotten another mislynch, and then double LYLO would have been upon everyone on D3 where they could probably just push through one last mislynch and in the meantime clear each other. This reads to me like a little bit of a "nah she's probably fine, let's just move on" to me. Idk though.
Good thinking GH.When you come through, which i believe as i dont see you as bad scum player and this what you are doing is essentially suicide if Csargo comes out town. If that is indeed the case im looking at two people. Logic, whom Csargo seemed to act in concert day one and Manasi, who is either lazy or scum.
03-31-2018, 13:03
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooh
I still want to hear from GH regarding his selection of tracking Csargo. I also want to hear from Csargo who appear to have been stunned by this.
Also, look at Csargo's initial reaction. He's stunned, but sad stunned. He's not fighting it. He's posting Pam gifs and playfully bantering with me. He hasn't attempted to fight back. This isn't a reaction a townie makes when they've been accused like this.
03-31-2018, 13:06
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Good thinking GH.When you come through, which i believe as i dont see you as bad scum player and this what you are doing is essentially suicide if Csargo comes out town. If that is indeed the case im looking at two people. Logic, whom Csargo seemed to act in concert day one and Manasi, who is either lazy or scum.
My two likely partners are Dp and Manasi, I think Logic looks a little better and the way he's gone about the game seems townie. We need two clears beyond Sooh, so assuming you're one of them we need a second one to put the game on lock. Can you talk to me more about Logic?
03-31-2018, 13:21
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
GH. Look at the day 1 Logic and compare to the rest of the game. Day 1 he is bantering with Csargo, easy stuff for mafia and also voting DP with Csargo which does not lead to a lynch. After that Logic´s game is solid. Doing Iso´s and being very analythical. Between Manasi and Logic, at this point i would go with Manasi, but there is a dent at Logic, which should be pursued.
03-31-2018, 13:36
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Sooh. If Csargo is scum. I was the first person to see that. I made the push towards Barto, but i was wrong. How can you accuse me of not wanting to make my own cases when that is the exact thing i have been doing the whole game. And that is the exact same thing i do every time i play these games. It is quite frustrating being called weird, intense and ..., but that i can understand, but not wanting to make my own cases. That is just blatantly wrong. Why i wanted to wait for you was because i did not want to turn this game more into direction it was going, aka people being lazy and not going through their own process.
This seems like exactly what you're doing in continuing to wait for Sooh lmao.
03-31-2018, 13:38
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
This is interesting to me, because I consider Manasi to be one of the most likely partners so I'm definitely looking for people's takes on it (and it's why I specifically asked Csar about Manasi in the first place). That said, I'm not entirely certain I agree with your conclusion. Let's keep in mind that at the point when he answered:
a) Csargo thought he was safe/still pretty clear
b) his partner, assuming said partner was NOT Kage, was also probably safe
I would expect him to make something along the lines of this post. It seemed like smooth sailing on D2 for them, they would have gotten another mislynch, and then double LYLO would have been upon everyone on D3 where they could probably just push through one last mislynch and in the meantime clear each other. This reads to me like a little bit of a "nah she's probably fine, let's just move on" to me. Idk though.
Please go look back at the game where the three of us were scum together and compare.
This is a weird read for you to have, especially paired with coming to the conclusion that we're scum together.
03-31-2018, 13:38
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manasi
This seems like exactly what you're doing in continuing to wait for Sooh lmao.
And this is exactly what you have been doing the entire game. Evading and not answering anything. Please do elaboarete to my question before. I would really appreciate that.:yes:
03-31-2018, 13:39
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
By the way. Where is Manasi? Were you not frustrated about how slow the game was and wanted activity, but disappeared yourself. Why?
Could you please share your analyze at the players, as i cant get pretty much anything from your posts?
Yeah give me a second. I've been really busy and tried posting last night on mobile but the site loaded horribly for me so I just went to sleep.
03-31-2018, 13:40
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
And this is exactly what you have been doing the entire game. Evading and not answering anything. Please do elaboarete to my question before. I would really appreciate that.:yes:
I've absolutely been developing my own reads moreso than most people in the thread at this point, and if that's something you can't see then I'm not sure what to tell you. I haven't evaded anything besides the questions in posts I literally haven't read yet lmao
03-31-2018, 13:43
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manasi
I've absolutely been developing my own reads moreso than most people in the thread at this point, and if that's something you can't see then I'm not sure what to tell you. I haven't evaded anything besides the questions in posts I literally haven't read yet lmao
Then share those reads.
03-31-2018, 13:44
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
So I'm put in this shitty spot where both myself and my town read are being pushed by the supposed tracker. If Csargo is scum, fine, that's fair. I didn't super lock clear him anyway. Reading both of our posts and concluding that we are potentially partners, though, is laughable. GH should know better than it. Again, it's fine since we're killing him today but I need you all to re-evaluate on me tomorrow.
Csargo's posting yesterday and last night would have been good enough to warrant a clear read from a lot of people tbh. Wifom alert, but I'm pretty sure if my scum partner gave me a reason to lock them away as town in my reads I would grab it and run.
Rest coming.
03-31-2018, 13:45
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
I also don't think a low impact IC dies over a tracker that could get another wolf.
Just my 0.02 at a post that stuck out strangely.
03-31-2018, 13:49
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
So then by the start of Day 3, both Csargo and GH will be dead and we can actually evaluate the game without him spewing that Kage's town and I'm mafia.
Good stuff.
Re: Dp, I could easily be getting bamboozled. I still think he's townier than Kage whose only real stance has been [probably] attempting to pocket GH. If GH even tried to verbalize why he thought Kage was town besides "Oh I just feel it really hard," I'd be a lot more inclined to listen or try to understand. From my perspective, though, I'm getting really pretty exclusively by two guys who are just back and forth town reading each other and could definitely be mafia together (barring the claim which is probably self resolving).
Tinfoil is partners bussing through claim but I think if they just continued on they'd have won just as easily.
Scratch that tinfoil.
Everything is fine.
03-31-2018, 13:50
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Logic is spewed town by every side of this game.
Nobody's wanted to push there.
/shrug
03-31-2018, 13:59
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Ok. Thank you very much Manasi for that insight. Im now going to leave the keyboard and go play some pool with friends and have a go at being day time drunken, while not being at bar for more then 6 months. If i post something even more strange tonight compared to my usual. Its booze talking. Im a happy man. :bow:
03-31-2018, 14:08
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manasi
So then by the start of Day 3, both Csargo and GH will be dead and we can actually evaluate the game without him spewing that Kage's town and I'm mafia.
Good stuff.
Re: Dp, I could easily be getting bamboozled. I still think he's townier than Kage whose only real stance has been [probably] attempting to pocket GH. If GH even tried to verbalize why he thought Kage was town besides "Oh I just feel it really hard," I'd be a lot more inclined to listen or try to understand. From my perspective, though, I'm getting really pretty exclusively by two guys who are just back and forth town reading each other and could definitely be mafia together (barring the claim which is probably self resolving).
Tinfoil is partners bussing through claim but I think if they just continued on they'd have won just as easily.
Scratch that tinfoil.
Everything is fine.
I think Kage is spewed town at this point by everyone pushing him, tbh. It's why I've gone from "I'll lay off for a day to see if I can get a better read on him" on D1 to "I think he's probably town here" today. If there's a flaw in this then let me know because I could easily be overlooking someone.
At some point today I'll go over Logic in Chess and, more pertinently, Pizza's read on him in that game. It might not be until night phase, but I'll get it done.
03-31-2018, 14:27
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Kage I think at this point.
My PoE is something like this atm:
Csargo
Sooh
Logic
Manasi
Dp101/GH
Kage
Does Csargo put his partner Dp this low in the POE?
03-31-2018, 14:28
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Not everyone has pushed on Kage fwiw.
Csargo didn't really actually push at all. It's just been myself and Logic.
Half the game.
Math checks out.
03-31-2018, 14:53
Sooh
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Personally I feel like this Manasi is miles away from scum-Manasi in that previous game.
03-31-2018, 14:57
Sooh
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Csargo, what do you think?
03-31-2018, 17:24
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooh
Personally I feel like this Manasi is miles away from scum-Manasi in that previous game.
Yeah, that’s the other thing. Even besides the potential post-flip associations, this has been the towniest Manasi I’ve seen in forever, and honestly the most interest I’ve ever seen her have in solving.
Also, look at Csargo's initial reaction. He's stunned, but sad stunned. He's not fighting it. He's posting Pam gifs and playfully bantering with me. He hasn't attempted to fight back. This isn't a reaction a townie makes when they've been accused like this.
I'm more annoyed that anything else tbh. Like on a scale of 1-10 I'm a unhappy camper.
Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.
I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
Yeah, that’s the other thing. Even besides the potential post-flip associations, this has been the towniest Manasi I’ve seen in forever, and honestly the most interest I’ve ever seen her have in solving.
I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.
03-31-2018, 18:43
Zack
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Official Tally as of #297
3 Csargo (Dp101, GH, Kage)
1 Dp101 (Logic)
Not Voting: Csargo, Manasi, Sooh
03-31-2018, 18:44
Logic
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Posting from mobile; expect errors.
I don't like this post. Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.
I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.
Clarification to the bolded: I didn't want to sound snarky or condescending, so I added the "hyperbole follows." And as soon as I post it, I think it makes it sound more snarky and condescending. Apologies if that is how you read it. That is not my intent.
Dp, you are skilled, and that post I dislike does not seem like you. That is why I am calling it specifically out.
03-31-2018, 18:46
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Posting from mobile; expect errors.
I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.
I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.
I’m honestly shocked that you think I know what I’m doing. Maybe I haven’t brought it up here much, but my personal opinion of my towngame is that it’s complete garbage. Like, I have never had any amount of confidence in my town game, and if you think this seems not like me (and, especially, not like me enough to vote me over a track result then I just don’t understand you.
03-31-2018, 18:47
Dp101
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Clarification to the bolded: I didn't want to sound snarky or condescending, so I added the "hyperbole follows." And as soon as I post it, I think it makes it sound more snarky and condescending. Apologies if that is how you read it. That is not my intent.
Dp, you are skilled, and that post I dislike does not seem like you. That is why I am calling it specifically out.
I didn’t read it as condescending, I just think it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how I view the game and myself.
03-31-2018, 19:50
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
We need at least one more vote on Csargo for me to be comfortable. There's no mechanic for an immediate "hammer" (phase ending upon majority being reached) so there's still a chance people could move off Csar onto Dp or somebody if we're not careful here.
03-31-2018, 19:59
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manasi
Does Csargo put his partner Dp this low in the POE?
Eh, maybe. The Dp slot hadn't done anything at that point to justify going any higher than that without questions being raised. You and Logic looked townier, Sooh was revealed to be innocent child, and I'm on the same level with Dp.
In reference to your "only Manasi and Logic pushed Kage" (which I don't feel like quoting at this point but it's directly below the one I just quoted) point, I feel like Csargo did push on him with a decent amount of prompting, and he definitely listed him at the very bottom. Do you think this was a reluctant bus attempt?
03-31-2018, 20:10
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
I don't have the time to do it before deadline today, but I plan to both reread the game overnight as well as Pizza/Logic on D1 of Chess to see if I can't lock in two clears besides Sooh. I'm dead either way once the next day phase starts, so it won't be an info dump right before deadline or anything.
Please join me/critique me on this, if there's something I miss or overlook or you disagree with my conclusions then we need to hear it. The more discussion the better.
Team 5 (also known as Blizzard Team 5) is the Blizzard Entertainment development team responsible for Hearthstone. Beginning as a "small and nimble" team of 15 members for much of the game's original development, the team has since grown to more than 70 members. Created specifically in order to develop Hearthstone, Team 5 is responsible for all ongoing game design.
You are the Mafia Small Indie Developer.
As a small indie team, you have no abilities.
You win when the mafia reach parity with the town, or this outcome is mechanically unavoidable.
Good luck, have fun, read the rules, PM me with any questions.
9 player game, probably 2 scums (unless the OP actually specifies). I assume GH is going to die tonight, given his stellar peek. Plenty of people who thought Csargo was towny though, but it would be worth looking into.
04-01-2018, 00:22
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
So I went into Chess and looked for Pizza's take on Logic. If you don't remember why I'm looking at Chess specifically, it's because Pizza had the guy dead to rights as mafia pretty much right out of the gate. This is quite possibly one of the most painful dives I've ever done. That game was something else. Anyway, cutting through the tremendous amounts of chaff, here's Pizza's takes on Logic's gameplay:
(I won't be putting these in a spoiler because I want everyone to see them as Logic's baseline so they can compare)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Intent is all wrong, and his aggression is all of the passive kind. He's also avoiding when he would normally confront or address.
Very big blunder in his opening. Not a mislynch at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Solving and pointed. I think Logic is in an uncomfortable position and can't really justify his Slaan read. So he made an oops here and Kage is all over it.
This is part of a larger post and I cropped out the irrelevant parts. A big part of the read is that Logic isn't really able to justify his reads on people. Don't think that applies here, but I want to go back over Logic's posts in this game to check myself on that (maybe somebody else could do that?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
By contrast, this is Logic barely clearing a hurdle Kage put in his path.
That lack of depth and generic thought is too thin for him, it doesn't match the earlier comment. "I don't see Slaan as a wolf" is too definitive in my opinion to be paired with the question of why answered by "He looks like a townie in a new group of people".
That's paper thin. As is his entire facade. Lynch Logic today always.
Click through to the post if you want to see the quoted context. We're looking for depth and stuff that's more than just generic thought from Logic in this game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
He's not a huge talker, but he has actual thoughts he can defend with reasoning, offered freely and specifically, when he's town.
It looks similar but it's the difference between Logic and a cardboard cutout of Logic. Take your picture with him, you won't see him again after today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.
I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.
I don't think I'd define his play here as "tensing up"? The isos could be a smokescreen but eh. Not likely?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Passive aggressive. If he were hiding, he wouldn't be undercutting or even solving.
His intent is malevolent here, not hiding.
He would find someone who won't push back and vote them, and then not post.
This is in response to Dp asking Pizza why Logic is just mafia and not a town power role. Very relevant, I think this might cut to the heart of the matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
This post is why Logic is never a town pr here.
This route of smearing Winston is not Logic's usual town fare, and it's not straightforward.
Logic is very straightforward.
This is Logic implying Winston is scum in a roundabout way, hands off. That's not his MO as town, and definitely not as a town power role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Thanks for looking at Logic, but I think you missed one of my biggest points and didn't look for it.
You saw his posts in another game as town, when he accused people, does he not consistently just say this post is scummy this person is a wolf I think this makes you more townie, his questions if any are more direct and mean what they appear to mean on the surface?
That's a highly highly consistent quality of his town game. He doesn't ask rhetorical questions or questions that undermine people in that manner, he doesn't do passive aggression. He's not highly aggressive but when he does it, it's pointed, and in fact, he does far more aggression (despite how mild it feels) in games than defending himself or anyone else.
And all of that solving is pointed and direct, not passive aggression.
I get how you're arriving at the conclusion that I'm just tunneling because I am, but if I'm tunneling on the right person and you're missing the biggest reason why it's right, I feel like we missed the chance for our minds to arrive at the same place.
I won't ask you to look again, but it was a massive part of what I wanted you to look for and I don't think you were looking for it. You found other stuff and I believe you're town, but I still think you missed the damning stark difference.
This is Pizza's response to my defense of (my mafia partner) Logic.
--------------------
I think this is enough of a baseline to go off of. The key points to look for from Logic are:
1) Passive-aggressiveness vs. directness when making cases
2) Depth of posts
3) Tensing up/getting uncomfortable in the thread
I'll check out Logic's posts here later, I have to go do IRL stuff for a while.
04-01-2018, 04:42
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Here are all of Logic's posts in Chess (minus some fluff at the start and an edit or two), when he was mafia. I'm a bit drunk so I'm not going to provide commentary. Click through for context if you're interested.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
If thats hiw you welcome newcomers, I guess I'm thankful that for my first game here you were unable to vote for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I admit, I am bad at chess. Maybe mafia too. Not sure what you see that looks suspicious in the 5 (guessing) posts I've made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Well, he does have experience in the job.
***Pizza starts scumreading him here***
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Option 3 is the least desirable choice.
Not ready to attempt option 2 yet, no reads.
I can live with option 1. I'll just be sad I didn't get to play long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I don't get it. I've not seen pizza play like this before. I know everything he does has a purpose, but here it feels like he is just playing by the seat if his pants. I'm confused, but I don't know if am am more or less so than Dp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Why do you keep saying that?
Touché. I see you use my turn of a phrase against me!
EDIT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
My wife would very much you not claim me as a suit.
I am off to bed. This start has given me plenty to think on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I haven't played chess since about the time that avatar was made. So, a decade or so? I've never considered myself very good. I'm capable of beating my parents and
Hmm. Why do you get a feeling that no one else seems to?
Logic's 10-minute take:
DP is town. DP is not teamed with Pizza, or Zack.
Csargo and Pizza are not teamed. One could be a wolf, but I don't think both.
Pizza feels really weird from normal. I can usually understand him a little, but here, he feels like he is playing 9 moves ahead to my 4. Not sure if he's on my team or not. I stand by my "seat of the pants" statement from earlier.
Cuth jumps in with some slight shade at DP. Is he suspicious of DP?
Kage shows up with what looks like a lazy vote on Slaan. Possibly a joke, but I think there's a more than reasonable chance that Kage is mafia.
Reinoe is the current target of DP's ire, and he is voting for me, (full disclosure, that that vote isn't being counted because it isn't bolded)
His vote on me looks like it stems only from Pizza's accusation. Not sure if sheeping, or he has other reasons for voting for me.
[b]Vote: Kagemusha[b/]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
One seemingly random vote for something very minuscule, and not related to the game? Yeah, I thought it was a tell. Especially since I don't see Slaan as a wolf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.
Winston, this... looks odd. It sounds to me like a willingness to lynch pizza, but an admission that you know he's town.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Please see the above quoted post.
Isolated posts of a single poster.
Well, I think your avatar looks smug. :tongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
If Kage has been around that long, how does he not know what ISO is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
@Zack
Unless I missed something, only GH and Winston have given Kage a townread.
They seem to know him, whereas I recognize his name. I'm not putting a ton of stock into other's town reads just yet, but this gulf between myself and those 2 tells me either I am way off in my suspicions, or should be looking closer at all 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Got busy with RL, and now have almost 1000 posts. Sheesh. If I survive, I should be more productive on the next day phase.
I'm going to park my vote on Choxorn, because it might mean I survive the day. If I don't, then C'est la vie.
If nothing else, I gotta do the most town thing I can, and save someone I know is a townie (me.)
Unvote: Kage
Vote: Choxorn.
The one caveat is that Logic was under heavy pressure for quite a bit of D1 in that game so he might have been thrown off his game. THAT SAID. Without having looked back at Logic's posts in this game I think he's town.
I hope to lock that read in tomorrow and then we only need one more clear to lock the game.
Obviously all input is STRONGLY encouraged.
04-01-2018, 07:10
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Good shit.
Still waiting for GH to do something even close to what he did to read Logic for Kage.
Too many people to lynch with too many question marks.
Dp/Sooh pls do something this is driving me a little insane.
04-01-2018, 07:11
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Like I'm glad he's come around to Logic being town but I think he (GH) is still going to tell y'all to push on me in the coming days which is the objectively incorrect play.
I don't know if Sooh is ever this much of a non-factor, but I wouldn't be surprised?
I am a little bleh about Dp's activity being so low.
The only thing in Kage's favor was the activity and how he was actually like urging me to post even though all of my reads were already ITT?
I don't fucking know town just needs to posttttttt.
04-01-2018, 07:12
Manasi
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
I'll be at home doing date of birth things for the majority of the day tomorrow, but I should be looking through thread during down time.
Should be around.
It'll be fine.
04-01-2018, 09:15
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manasi
Like I'm glad he's come around to Logic being town but I think he (GH) is still going to tell y'all to push on me in the coming days which is the objectively incorrect play.
I don't know if Sooh is ever this much of a non-factor, but I wouldn't be surprised?
I am a little bleh about Dp's activity being so low.
The only thing in Kage's favor was the activity and how he was actually like urging me to post even though all of my reads were already ITT?
I don't fucking know town just needs to posttttttt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manasi
I'll be at home doing date of birth things for the majority of the day tomorrow, but I should be looking through thread during down time.
Should be around.
It'll be fine.
Im hung over and not feeling too much for posting anything. But i say that both posts above this one of mine are shit posts. You cant discredit me both ways do it or dont. I found Csargo and i found you as well.
04-01-2018, 09:16
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Sorry three posts above mine are shit posts and that is what they are.
04-01-2018, 09:17
Kagemusha
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Vote: Manasi
04-01-2018, 11:01
Sooh
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manasi
Like I'm glad he's come around to Logic being town but I think he (GH) is still going to tell y'all to push on me in the coming days which is the objectively incorrect play.
I don't know if Sooh is ever this much of a non-factor, but I wouldn't be surprised?
I am a little bleh about Dp's activity being so low.
The only thing in Kage's favor was the activity and how he was actually like urging me to post even though all of my reads were already ITT?
I don't fucking know town just needs to posttttttt.
Manasi, I don't know if you read the flip posts at all, but I'm literally mod confirmed IC.
Keeping in mind the above criteria I've set for Logic, here are some of his posts in this game:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
:confused: Vote: El Barto
First off we have an immediate response to El Barto's coding persona. Nothing beyond it, and then there are a couple of explanations as to his edited post plus a revote etc that I'm not going to post here. In itself I don't necessarily think we can get anything off of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Vote: Snerk.
There is no way he should know I'm part Scottish. The lab has yet ti verify Argentinean.
Later on he moves his vote over to Snerk, still without an actual reason. Hm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I gotta say, I am "thanking" Csargo more than I thought I would have. I'm going to guess it is based upon our having a similar sense of humor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
"Zack used confuse on Logic! It's super effective!"
Wait.... wrong franchise.
Still nothing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I've always thought it was pronounced the same as "sue," because when I first saw the name, I initially thought it said "soothe."
Getting actually a little worried.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Do you agree with my assessment that we share a similar sense of humor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I typically don't watch videos at work, so if there was humor content within, I had no idea. I assumed it was just the end cutscene to Ocarina of Time based on the thumbnail.
It's 5 am here, but in case you your questions are not jokes:
I took "ama" to mean "ask me anything."
Not you.
Probably not.
Souls. He controls the black market on this corner of the blog-o-sphere.
Logic where's your direct stuff?
***There's some more conversation with Kage that's not really game-relevant that I don't feel like posting here***
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Very vague buckets:
Townish
Logic - Myself, naturally I am going to say I am town.
Manasi - seems townier than usual, and I usually suspect Manasi early and often.
Sooh - Feels natural; I can detect no hidden agenda.
Nullish
Csargo - Right now, I'm wearing blinders on him.
Kagemusha - "Bating" for reaction sounds good, but it's also I might do in a followup game if I were scum.
Scumish
El Barto - Slightly confused by the 848% earlier, but I'm assuming it was a typo not something sinister. His coded flavor-text may be what is pinging my scum-dar, but I can't identify why he feels less than genuine this early.
Monty - Seeing his last game has made me super wary of him, and he is in my "usual suspects" bucket until proven otherwise.
GeneralHankerchief - Too little content to base anything on. But I could see a "chaos³" GH this early.
Snerk/Dp101 - Snerk/Dp101 have given little to go on, but I can't find a real reason to vote elsewhere yet.
FIRST ACTUAL READS. Kind of more than anything we saw in Chess but I still wouldn't exactly call this "good". There's not really any passive aggressiveness to detect here, but not much directness either. Let's see if he hits the other criteria points when following up with this.
***Csargo exchange***
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
I don't get all the hate for sudoku, it's not that bad.
Monty, Logic, and Dp101 bottom tier for me at this point. Feel like that's where we should be focusing. All have been underwhelming/ooc in my extremely educated extraordinary opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Where did the Sudoku conversation come from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
I thought I was being clever...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
I think you have Manasi/Sooh too high tbh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
It was in reference to the Barto votes, should have stated that initially. gg me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Maybe you were, but it flew right over my head.
(Assuming you were punning a little about "pseudo." If not, then I still don't get it.)
This feels a little too awkward to be partnery, maybe? Like they're tripping over each other a decent amount in this. Also the fact that Logic didn't really respond to the fact that Csargo was suspecting him is... meh. I wish my conclusion was stronger at this point.
***The isos begin***
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Typical Manasi. But note her inclination.
Attempt at solving. I like this.
Not sure how to take this. I wanna give this positive points, but I could see this as potentially forced.
Solving, or setting up doubt in GH? I'm presently inclined to believe the former.
This made me laugh. Null.
This is in response to GH removing his vote from El Barto, who is currently voting for Manasi.
Votes with original inclination. Could be playing "consistent" as scum, or sticking with original read. Overall, I think this paints Manasi as more likely town than scum.
This is Logic taking a look at Manasi's posts. He comes out with a townread on her despite seeing both sides, so overall I think this looks reasonably decent for Logic in terms of evaluating it off the criteria Pizza laid out in Chess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Please see post #102, which clarifies my manasi opinion, and my post prior to this one, which is Manasi's ISO.
This is in response to my question about his earlier placement of Manasi.
SNERK/DP ISO COMING:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I agree with this here. :'(
Joke for a null.
Joke for a null.
Replying to a vote from Sooh with a vote for monty.
Joke for null
Null
Strongly agrees with Manasi's "Kage's wall-o-text random"
Agrees with GH concerning Csargo and Sooh's towniness, & Kage's mafia-ness. GH also slightly puts Manasi in the town camp. Not sure what parts DP agrees with or not.
Now, the first thing I'll say is that Logic never made these posts in Chess - however, Chess was also a much, much higher volume than this game, so I'm not sure how much this applies. What I will say is that none of this is forced. He's not trying to shade Dp here, just pointing out all of the posts and saying how it's pretty much null on all of them. I'd expect mafia!Logic to try to force something here, probably in an indirect way.
There's a short exchange with me, asking for clarification on one of the points I made, that I'm not going to put here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Presently, Barto is voting Manasi, and appears to be offline. The latter explains his lack of self-defense.
This is in response to Kage questioning why Barto isn't defending himself. Again, nothing really passive-aggressive.
*****DAY ONE ENDS*****
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Prior to this post of mine now, the posts counts are as follows:
Logic - 23
Csargo - 22
GH - 16 Narrator - 14
Kage -12 El Barto -12
Sooh - 11
Manasi - 8
Montmorency - 6
Snerk/DP combined - 5/3, 8 combined.
Judging off of this alone, I am running on the theory that there is one mafia above El Barto, and one below.
This is the first post in the night phase and I think it looks ~okay for Logic. It doesn't mean much but again, he's just putting it out there without reservation, really. It's more of the intent behind the post than the actual content for me right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
I'd say its better than 50/50 that one scum is fairly active, and another is cruising under the radar. It's exactly what I'd be advocating for right now if I were scum.
GH also doubled his posts between my two mentions. Look at his first 8 posts. 1 or 2 have some reasonable content, the rest are nothing of real note.
First line: A response to Kage asking him about his postcount theory. Second line: responding to Monty about GH's "having too little content to judge". Hmph. I kind of wish Logic had named names here in terms of suspects. At least he's sticking with the theory though, think that's good for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Sorry about that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I am unusually busy at work today. I'll have some content before EON.
Responding to Manasi about the low level of content in the game.
LOGIC WALL TIME BELOW:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Apologies in advance. This will be a wall.
This is the second time I've quoted this post, but something reads off. Here are some more perceptions of it.
If Monty is scum:
1.) I highly doubt GH is as well.
2.) Pocketing Manasi looks likely
Curious about Kage, Sooh, and DP reads. Not just because they are different from mine (read more below on Sooh) but also because there doesn't seem to be much content to it.
With no other context, I would be reading this as (scum)Manasi is pocketing me or the (town)Manasi feels like she is being pocketed by yours truly. Her follow-ups look different from the Manasi I am used to seeing; this is more effort from her than I recall ever before. WIM, methinks?
If Manasi doesn't suspect Kage, color me surprised. I certainly do. However, rhetorical questions are the best kinds of questions. Just like being technically correct is the best kind of correct.
If I am the nightkill, I suspect Csargo or Monty, for comments made in past games that I cannot seem to find at the moment. It depends on how long their memory is for random things I've said. But, I ONLY suspect Csargo if I am the nightkill. He's yet given me pause otherwise.
If I survive the night I will do more ISOs starting with the lowest posters I have yet to tackle, with an update on those I have gotten to if possible.
For now, settle for Sooh's ISO:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Note this post for later in this ISO. Votes Snerk. Snerk's response is to vote Monty while quoting Sooh, and this poduces the following from Sooh:
NAI
Responding to Barto's "coding" posting style. NAI.
NAI, but keep note of this for also later in the ISO.
Respoding to Kage's vote summary in post #34. Kage 'thanks' the post.
With about 6 hours to go, Sooh quotes the countdown timer.
NAI
NAI
NAI
Responding to my joke. At least someone got it.
The longest post by Sooh yet. She's responding to Manasi, who asked her a direct question about what she was thinking.
I don't know Kage well enough to know if "that wall" is weird for anyone but him. It looks kinda like some of the stuff I do. But drawing attention to it again after the fact does seem odd, and out of place to me.
This is the second time Sooh has claimed to be distracted by real life. (Zelda, and now Shetland) This could be a real legitimate answer, as we haven't had an Org Mafia game in months. But for now, this strikes me as a tad suspicious. I see I had rated Sooh too townie initially. Without doing Kage's ISO, I could see a Sooh/Kage team pretty easily.
My suspects right now are Sooh -> Kage -> Monty
I would click this one through for context, there's a decent amount to digest here.
So obviously the effort is leaps and bounds ahead of anything Logic did in Chess, even factoring in the volume/fact that he was under immense pressure right out of the gate. In terms of the content, it's decent. I can't do any better than "decent" unfortunately. I do think there is directness with his accusations present, but not as much as I'd like. Read for it yourself and decide.
*****DAY TWO START*****
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Well, that was not expected. Two of my top 3 suspects are mechanically cleared in one update. Completely back to the drawing board.
(Monty and Sooh). Kind of like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Wait; Innocent Child? That doesn't seem to fit with the Hearthstone theme at all. I'm not mechanically clearing Sooh just yet.
I REALLY like this post. It's a bit of a derpclear but I'll allow it. Feel like mafia's more likely reaction is to ask about it in scumchat or something. Or just take it on faith since it's the host reaffirming what the mafioso already knows: Sooh is clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Clarification: I meant I wasn't changing my opinion on Csargo if I was not the nightkill. The nightkill being me would have led me to believe that Csargo was scum, due to my statement in an earlier game that "I consider it a personal win to be the nightkill D1" or something similar. Csargo at the time said something to the effect of "I hope to let you win when I am scum."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Yeah: He's still null, so I still don't suspect him, but I'm not taking my eyes off either. He's yet given me pause, but I haven't seen something oozing towniness. I am positive I did not say "he's fine."
My gaze was going to be focused on Monty/Sooh/Kage, as they were my top suspects, but it looks like I have one worth looking at.
Above two posts were an exchange with me asking him about Csargo.
KAGE ISO BELOW:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
First post: not super content driven. Could be an analysis, could be a smokescreen. Sooh called this weird for anyone but Kage earlier, so this may be worth investigating further. Vote for GH tells little at this point.
Replying to GH about his feelings upon getting a role. Talks about being sentimental. If I knew more about Kage, this might be a better datapoint. As it stands, this reads like it could be partners speaking.
Replyng to two of GH's posts. (GH compliments Kage's mafia skills, comments on being sentimental, and comments on Csargo and Sooh being likely town, Manasi just shy of that level) Removes vote from GH calling him likely town because he liked his reaction. Reads Manasi as "possibly confused scum, but town for now", and gives reads on Csargo and Logic (myself,) hinting he thinks we are possible scum partners or otherwise linked. I find the latter to be mechanically impossible with this few number of players. I'm casting significant suspicion on Kage for this. It also leads my to think that GH is Kage's most likely partner, for now. Pending GH's ISO, we'll see, but so far I'm 1 for 3, and my 1 correct wasn't solid.
Explains his intent. +town points, but possible ruse as scum to repeat
Responding to Csargo, who is critical of Kage's list. NAI.
Encourages GH to push Barto. (GH agrees.) If these guys are a scum team, this is brazen. Teaming seems less likely now.
Banter with me about my grammar nazi traits.
Asks me a direct question, and I post my "vague buckets" response.
Near EOD post about Barto.
He answers his own question moments after I answer it for him.
More banter with GH. I repeat myself, these two feel teamed, but I know for a fact that GH is smarter than this, and I suspect Kage is as well. If teamed, this is super brazen. EOD
Responding to my postcount analysis. Probing?
DP townreads Csargo and Manasi, the latter everyone seems to have done so, and Kage is asking for reasons. I give Kage town points for this.
Responding to Manasi's query. I'm not convinced that Kage did a whole lot of legwork in the day-phase, but maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees. I saw one attempt to ferret out mafia that didn't work all that well, and Kage agrees that his plan didn't return any positive results.
Responding to Manai's plight about multiquotes. I would normally like this question, and probably pose it myself, but because I am seeing Kage through a mafia-filter, this looks suspect to me.
G**D*** it. This is good, but makes it harder for me to read Kage. This I like. Mafia or Town, I like this sentiment. And It's hard for me to read this as mafia. I'm going to give him a "good sportsman" read here, because this tells me nothing otherwise. There may be info here, but I will not be able to read anything into this beyond "Hey Kage, is a cool dude."
NAI
Responding to GH's question about who he suspects before the kill comes in.
Makes a claim about being consistent. Thats more wolf thinking, in my book, but it could just be how Kage shapes his worldview. After the Barto flip, he is unsure about his previous reads.
He mentions me (he likes my ISOs, is convinced if I am Mafia I am playing well) and Csargo he says he can never read properly, so apply direct pressure. He admits to omitting Sooh, and says she may be slipping under the radar. If wolf, this is a setup to deep-threat mislynch, methinks? I'm unsure, but colored glasses have me thinking about it like that. Says Manasi is masking with behavior (I feel this is Manasi's best town game so far, so this gives Kage a mafia point in my ledger.) I agree that DP/Snerk did not give him much to go on. Ends with his assessment of Monty, which also looks like "I can't read him unless_____." Tells GH he will get him, if he is indeed mafia GH can't hide from Kage. Asks for more to work with. Yup, we all need that.
Csargo sarcastically says he deserves more heat because Kage specifically can't read him. Kage suggests I do Csargo's iso soon (maybe later; 30+ posts to quote, compile, and analyze, and I don't have time for that right now.)
[b]EON[b]
Responding to Manasi's laughter. Not sure what to make of this interaction at all. Manasi might be gloating (the first potential mafia-sign I've seen from her) and Kage seems to be keeping his cards close to his chest. Could go either way from this.
Here he shades Manasi for parroting me. The second possible Manasi scum sign, and a second ISO of her may bear fruit. But, Kage isn't making a good case here either: He's inferring something that Manasi does not seem to be saying herself. (she looks to be attempting a vote, but she has only bolded Kage's name, thus not actually voting for him. Not sure if honest mistake due to other-site habits, or something else. Kage picks up on this as well, and calls Manasi scummy directly.
Not yet ready for a vote, but leaning Kage and GH.
I'm running out of steam but this is a much better effort from Logic than the last iso. I think it shows a good amount of depth of thought and he's directly confronting somebody who's already under a good amount of suspicion. His reads haven't had the best accuracy this game, but I do feel like his process is coming from a town perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Just so this doesn't get lost. After reading the ISO, hes been shading Manasi from nearly the beginning, but not voting for her. So I will Vote: Kage now, but I want to make sure you all see that I think he's a pretty swell dude. If I am wrong, Thunderdome me, because clearly I am not helping town.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
So, I can't shake help but shake the feeling that GH and Kage are teamed, but here is the biggest evidence AGAINST the theory that I can find:
------------------------------------------------------------ Day One, Final Tally
3 El Barto:skull: (Montmorency, Kagemusha, GeneralHankerchief)
Not Voting: Sooh
------------------------------------------------------------
There is no good reason I can think of for both scum to be on a D1 wagon mislynch and kill the only other person on the same wagon the following night. I'll have to ISO GH next.
And here he walks his own theory back a bit. Good stuff overall.
***After I claim***
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Posting from mobile; expect errors.
I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.
I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
Clarification to the bolded: I didn't want to sound snarky or condescending, so I added the "hyperbole follows." And as soon as I post it, I think it makes it sound more snarky and condescending. Apologies if that is how you read it. That is not my intent.
Dp, you are skilled, and that post I dislike does not seem like you. That is why I am calling it specifically out.
CONCLUSION:
The iso could have been better, but going off Pizza's criteria I think Logic is pretty solidly within the town camp here.
04-01-2018, 15:05
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Hearthstone Mafia
I need to go do Easter stuff now, I hope to be in the thread for a while before I die and give thoughts on Kage/Manasi/Dp.
Here's what I don't want to happen though: Don't take my word for gospel. I'm going to die tonight and Sooh is going to die N3. In that time (if we don't get the second mafioso this coming day phase), there needs to be more interaction and threadwork. I will give my thoughts - hopefully - but I do not want that to be the final word on the matter. This game is going to be won or lost on what the living, noncleared players do.
