So, everyone ready to lose? I really need a good way of relieving lynch stress at lylo.
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So, everyone ready to lose? I really need a good way of relieving lynch stress at lylo.
I'm a fan of Philadelphia sports teams, so I've learned the hard way that if you're feeling good about something... just shut up, otherwise you'll jinx it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Did it happen once already this game? ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Yeah, when Murska got lynched.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
If i had offended in you in any way i apologize. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
Looking forward to play with you again.
yeah....right. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
How long are you going to keep up the charade? :beam:
Deadline was half an hour ago, probably shouldn't post anything that is alignment indicative.
Don't post.
Sorry, I was studying and lost track of time. :sweatdrop:
Tally as of post 3209:
Lynch votes
4 votes: atheotes (GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Dp101, Al Sipsclar)
1 votes: Al Sipsclar (Pelican)
1 votes: Askthepizzaguy (atheotes)
Voting history:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it, and say BR BR BR BR BRRRRRRRR.
https://i.imgur.com/GJnt6oO.png
Dr. John A. Zoidberg
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Alive: 5
Al Sipsclar - Calculon
Askthepizzaguy - Kif Kroker
Dp101 - Richard Nixon's head
GeneralHankerchief - Donbot
Pelican - Philip J. Fry
---
Lynched: 8
d1 - spaceman98 - Leela
d2 - BSmith - Amy
d3 - Stork - Professor Farnsworth
d4 - novice - Scruffy
d5 - Cuthillius - Hattie
d6 - Murska - Dr. Wernstrom
d7 - Montmorency - Mom
d8 - atheotes - HYPNOTOAD
---
Killed: 8
n1 - El Barto - Flexo
n2 - Visor - Hermes
n2 - seireikhaan - Larry
d3 - CrimsonFox - Zapp Brannigan
n3 - Newyn - Linda
n4 - choxorn - Morbo
n5 - Winston Hughes - Robot Devil
n7 - Riedquat - Bender
---
Modkilled: 1
johnhughthom - Hedonismbot
MomCorp Victory!
Alive: 5
Al Sipsclar - Calculon
Askthepizzaguy - Igner
Dp101 - Richard Nixon's head
GeneralHankerchief - Donbot
Pelican - Walt
---
Lynched: 8
d1 - spaceman98 - Leela
d2 - BSmith - Amy
d3 - Stork - Professor Farnsworth
d4 - novice - Scruffy
d5 - Cuthillius - Hattie
d6 - Murska - Dr. Wernstrom
d7 - Montmorency - Mom
d8 - atheotes - Zoidberg
---
Killed: 8
n1 - El Barto - Flexo
n2 - Visor - Hermes
n2 - seireikhaan - Larry
d3 - CrimsonFox - Zapp Brannigan
n3 - Newyn - Linda
n4 - choxorn - Morbo
n5 - Winston Hughes - Robot Devil
n7 - Riedquat - Bender
---
Modkilled: 1
johnhughthom - Hedonismbot
Game is now over. Thanks everyone for playing and congrats to the winners.
More details and stuff coming later this week, I'm going to be busy tonight and probably tomorrow. :sweatdrop:
(GH was the only non-vanilla left, and the mafia would have just blocked him and could have killed anyone.)
Jesus Christ.
EVERYONE, dead or alive, can now post, since it's over.
:2thumbsup:
@Pelican @Askthepizzaguy @Montmorency @seireikhaan
Congrats!
@Riedquat
I haven't looked at the specifics yet, but I think you also did quite well.
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
This is what I get for not ISOing. A little voice in the back of my head said that Pizza and Monty passed up a lot of opportunities to truly force the issue with each other, but there were always bigger targets. Argh.
Well played, you nutjobs. :laugh4:
Well, this is all my fault. My perfect win streak is now shattered, and it could easily have been avoided if I just listened to Winston. Feel free to blame me for the loss, my brain must have equated walls of text with actual decent cases, and I forgot the Cuthillius mess way too quickly. I maintain that while Quat scanning mafia as not a threat in one specific case does make some kind of sense as to avoid him being a seer, it still feels a bit like a bastard role.
Okay, there's lots of things that are gonna bug me (most of them self-inflicted, don't get me wrong :wall:) but let's start with this one. With Fry being mafia, aren't Riedquat's two goals of protecting both robots (townies) and Fry (mafia) self-contradictory?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
Gosh!!! Amazing game! Thanks for hosting Zack!
Now, you, stupid Igner! Why did you need to kill me?? I know I kinda got your mother lynched, but wasn't my intention! That night I scanned you, never scanned Monty ;) I lied here and there of course but I needed both town and scum to achieve my goals!
Team Victory Conditions:
Bender's victory is graded (at the host's discretion) on his ability to achieve the goals below, listed in no particular order.
- Survival. You, Bender, survive the game.
- Evil Twin. Outlive Flexo. (Bonus points for being directly involved in Flexo's death.)
- Robot Prosperity. As many robots as possible survive the game (except Flexo, he can die).
- Kill all humans. As few humans as possible survive the game (except Fry, he can live).
- Except one. Fry survives the game. Bender: [crying] All those times... I said "kill all humans"... I'd always whisper "except one". Fry was that one.
Abilities:
Kleptomania. Each Night, you may steal an item from another player, which will reveal their relation to your victory conditions, if any. This ability cannot be used on the same player twice.
Further the cause. After using "Kleptomania" on a player, you have a chance at gaining one use of this ability. Use it on the same player, and depending on how they relate to your victory conditions, you will either protect or kill them. You can use this ability and Kleptomania on the same night.
This metal is more than just shiny. Nightkill immunity on Night 1. This is a passive ability and it triggers automatically.
I'm waiting to read the mafia quicktopic where Pizza and Monty inevitably quote my one post saying "you two are both town and you need to stop going after each other" and just laugh as loudly and obnoxiously as they can.
riedquat never posted his real role pmQuote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Well, at least I called the potential bender kill all humans thing right.
Hey, it was a difficult game for everybody, my scans were useless for town, the threats to me were the humans, the only one who was really suspicious was Atheotes! And honestly, I never suspected Monty of being scum I just lied my ass off there because he was admittedly human and I needed him dead, was prepare to reveal the true role after the lynch, my last order was to scan you, and all these post from Al Sip and atheotes pointing at you, well I was being subtle trying to point at you like a nice night target...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
Fry!!?? Why??
Brain slug told me to say GG
*hugs* to my worthy competitors. I hope that you were able to have fun regardless.
As is tradition for me, you will of course note that I admitted to being mafia with Montmorency, and then said I would light my cigar with your bodies.
Sorry. I got to do that, it's just who I ams.
On a more serious note, I truly appreciate the folks in this game who really tried, and the scoreboard doesn't indicate how close it was. Things could have gone way downhill for us if only a little bit changed, like me being lynched before Monty. After the atheotes kill attempt failed, we thought we had blundered it away. Atheotes played his slot well, since he managed to draw a kill.
The worst part was, I even thought he might be a one shot bulletproof "or something" and suggested killing elsewhere that night. No idea what happened there.
I want our new players to come back. Novice and dp101 were both a breath of fresh air on this site.
CrimsonFox brought a lot of heart, I would ask that he tone things down as this site is more casual as you can see.
Riedquat, I feel sorry about the very cold hearted decision to kill you. But it was for the greater good of being bad. I wanted to win outright with you at final 7 but I guess you had a win condition that forced your hand otherwise? Dunno what happened there.
Scum Quicktopic:
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/yL4spGrep5i
Our strategy and running commentary throughout the game. Please enjoy.
~:pimp:
Do I read this before bed, or wait until tomorrow?Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
...
...aaaaaaaaaaaand there's that masochism instinct kicking in.
Oh, well in that case...Quote:
Originally Posted by Riedquat
I was dropping hints like they were elephants in the thread for you to unvote and then vote with me. So now I don't even feel bad.
Lol
Go re-read that day. I couldn't have been more obvious, actually.
Hugs anyway. I wanted this game to be over and for you to achieve your win conditions, but I spoke directly to you all day and told you he was scum and to get off of him, openly, in public.
If you can't hear me after I do that, I'm afraid MomCorp finds you to be faulty and recalls you to be scrapped, y'know?
I hope we killed enough humans for you to do well regardless.
I said several kind things about many players in there. It's a good read, albeit lengthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
I think this town will get a lot out of this qt and recommend it. It shouldn't be cringe-worthy even in the position of having failed to defeat our team.
Well, time to read the thread and see if my theory of mafia keeping me alive because they knew they could easily pocket me was true.
He did, meatbag!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
I want to know what was up with Stork's role.
Also, gg stork and good try.
No, I actually thought I had lost you at several points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
The person I specifically kept alive was GH because people were suspecting him so much.
And I knew that was a massive risk because of (a) his role and (b) he's a very dangerous player and (c) I have never successfully pocketed him and wouldn't immediately think that's my best option, ever.
But, it worked out, because it was such an outlandish thing to try.
Also I told my teammates to bus me literally all game, for the same reason. Too outlandish for me to try. But I had to try once, you see.
he edited omitted some stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
I thought it was kinda funny that no one noticed that, in the Role PM atheotes posted, the font changed halfway through the ability description then changed back.
Made me feel a bit silly for how much effort I put into making them all super consistent (down to stuff like making sure all links used https instead of http). :laugh4:
So, mafia, why did you kill me on Night One? Did my attempt at being Bender succeed that well? The idea was that, as I could keep talking after death, I'd draw fire rather than lose a power role (not that I didn't suspect Bender could easily be set to ‘kill all humans’ mode or, Zack being Zack, have been repossessed by MomCorp or joined Evil Santa or, or, well, Bender's evil, basically).
Was there a dead chat?
I don't remember at this point. It might be in the QT.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
You did well with your talk after death power. I had to ignore you at a certain point because you were successfully damaging my credibility.
:laugh4: I saw all your elephants around all the thread, but I lacked certainty you were 100% scum! That in particular, phew... I really was afraid to blow my fabricated townie mascarade, how to go back after revealing a fabricated result... interesting thing my scan didn't went through your cover...Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I could have designed it better, I had to rework the role at the last second (in the original, larger design the Prof was the fifth member of MomCorp). Stork also had insanely bad luck with the early lynches/kills. Visor (Hermes) had an ability that helped him find memebrs of Planet Express, and Stork found him n1, so he theoretically was primed to do well.
In retrospect the role had a lot of issues and probably shouldn't have been included. Sorry Stork.
I dunno, I guess the main reason I'm feeling despondent is that I felt I finally had learned something valuable from Pizza in terms of how to catch mafia, and in the end it turns out that everything was just lies and I, as always, substituted other people's opinions for my own. I don't think I can become an effective player until I can advocate for my own ideas effectively, and I can't manage that right now.
I enjoyed the game quite a bit. I know skating through the endgame is kind of a cheap way for a wolf to contribute to the team, but it's what the strategic situation and my RL schedule allowed. With no one seriously targeting me, and Pizza doing fine with the heavy lifting, any huge increase in participation on my end would have probably risked more than the potential benefits. But I had a lot of fun playing regardless and learned a lot. Thanks to all involved. I wish I could join the next game here but I probably won't be able to play these for a while unfortunately.
Found it! You really did want to frame CrimsonFox after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
You refused to do analysis on some palyers inexplicably and announced your every absence. I felt as if I were the only saneQuote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
manrobot in the room.
Heh, for some reason Monty said he thought the game wouldn't end before late October (post #225).
Do I have to kill ALL the wolves for you?
Role was certainly not my style and not fun at all for me to play after n1 unfortunately.
Whatever, gg Pelican especially I guess.
Murska what in the world were you doing?
death by inactivity
https://thebrotherhoodofevilgeeks.fi...apers_fry1.jpg
I think it's self-explanatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfoR8SbFhy8
I would say in general, the advice is sound. It's just that, because I've been a townie for 8 years at this point, I know how to take good town advice and twist it to suit my own purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
General's been around for years longer than I have, and nothing I said in the game didn't pass his sniff test as to its town-merits.
So, if it fools a veteran, you honestly shouldn't even begin to feel bad.
My scum game is a really, really difficult nut to crack because individual players are extremely smart, but the moment you make them into a democracy and they need to decide things by committee, and they don't have all the information they need, they always become extremely vulnerable.
Play more games with us. You are underselling your fundamentals.
And the number of people who have said "never again" to being fooled by me specifically, only to have it happen again, is substantial. Do not feel like you in particular were especially vulnerable, because unless the town has an alignment cop and scans me directly, their track record is pretty bad.
Visor is an excellent player and he town-read me. GH is as well. Winston Hughes even got pocketed by me. These are people who know me and have played with me for years and have seen what I can do as scum.
I think you really cannot beat yourself up over figuring me out.
I think the missed opportunity was perhaps not pushing Pelican, town in general didn't touch him and neither did the scums. The reasons why should have been looked into more. This was before Riedquat falsely cleared him.
I would have been extremely vulnerable as a claimed tracker with a dead scum roleblocker. Our entire team collapses after such a lynch.
Ok, just finished reading the mafia thread. Just one question, what is wogging?
Stands for Wrath Of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
Modkilling someone for inactivity.
Had Pelican failed to post today, he'd have been modkilled and I would be flapping in the breeze as mechanically hard outed scum.
I would have conceded on the spot and said not the best way to lose a game, but you win some, you lose some, and would have said "note to self: have a plan B in case extremely busy and often absent mafia partner goes AWOL".
Town would have earned their win with atheotes' bulletproof slot drawing a kill. After that blunder by us, it was town's game to win again.
Dp101, I don't understand why you're upset at being played. It's the whole point of the game!
(and thus a wonderful grudge can be born, and you can nightkill atpg one day with prejudice if you're scum)
Oh, also one more thing I'm trying to figure out. Why did you keep wanting to NK me? I wasn't doing anything particularly threatening, but my name came up reasonably often in discussions of who to kill. Why not go after someone who appeared to have a power role? The only solid rationale I saw for my death would be that it would confuse people, but I can't see how.
Because this was my first loss, and I was enjoying a 100% win rate, which is now shattered ;-; Also, because no one likes feeling like they have been lied to. Its one thing to have someone you have barely interacted with flip, its another for someone who has given you advice throughout the game to suddenly turn out to have been lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
It's not fun to feel like you got played.
Even if it's an expected outcome of the game, it's a big time investment on the part of the player and if they saw their efforts fail then it causes a lot of self-doubt.
Remember: It's a guessing game on the internets where some people weren't very active. It's hard to get a good read off of Pelican, jht, Al Sips, etc, particularly early on. Think of it like a casual game of poker with your friends.
The chips don't matter, it's all for fun. If you lose this round, you'll win the next three. Even if it was a very long night of playing, it's just one session. There will be many and you'll be on the winning side plenty of times.
It will make the first time (and it won't be the only time) you defeat me while being scum and I'm town, all the more satisfying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
When it happens, you totally need to say "When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master" and post an image of darth vader.
That will make up for not being able to post this if I had won this time.
Thanks to Zack for organizing and hosting this game.
Thanks to Khaan for being a valued member of the team, I think you played well enough that if it wasn't exactly the town vig you were voting, you'd have gone undetected for a while.
Oh yes, I forgot. Thank you Zack for hosting! Still annoyed I got vanilla, but whatever.
You're redirecting your anger towards the GM. Good, good. Embrace the Dark Side.
Flaws build character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
I'm going to say what I said about Visor after only seeing him play a couple of times: If you stick with this, you will become one of the best players I will have ever come across. The force is strong with with you. With experience, you will trust yourself more (and your votes, before being persuaded to move them, were winning on several rounds), and you will also have the experience and rhetorical tools necessary to detect and combat verbal trickery better.
That's all you're lacking, is experience. I'm not just saying that to butter you up. I rarely pass out such judgments of new players after only seeing them in one game.
You have the fundamentals and the drive and the WIM to become truly great.
Don't really like the "VT gets to talk after death" thing very much from a design perspective.
Didn't happen this game, but had a strong player been spk'd night 1 and flipped VT, I think thats really rough on the wolves for no real reason.
Reminds me of Luke Skywalker facing the Emperor. You have what it takes to be one of the strongest Jedi, but you just happened to go against a foe that was your match. Had some more experienced villain switched allegiances and lynched me with you, the death star would have blowed up.
Also, everything is star wars with me, apparently.
Not to be confused with being quite the character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
spk'd?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stork
Strong Player KilledQuote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
Thank you for the strong praise. Now I just need to not let it go to my head.
Was a common practice on this site at one time. There are several strategies for dealing with that. Dead vanilla towns have no vote and know nothing particularly special. And the mafia can play against their minds just as well as they can play against live townies. It's easier for the scums to blend in when everyone starts sheeping the confirmed townies. Just like when they sheep masons or a cop. I've been on scum teams who have defeated a couple dozen towns who have tried such brute methods. When the town unites too much, it's anti-analysis for vote purposes. And when the town leaders know nothing, that's a recipe for an easier sweep, even.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stork
I remember a truly terrible game I played way back when called the Chicago Soiree...
Oh, wait... did you say strong player? Because my strong player credentials go out the window when you analyze such games by me.
TBH my town game is middling these days.
Meh, could be a style thing but I think if the wolves take the risk of not role hunting on purpose to remove a strong player (read: particularly in read quality and effort), the punishment is that they don't kill a pr, they don't need to be punished twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I understand why the roles can't talk after death but it just seems a bit volatile in terms of certain things being at odds with player styles.
Plus how do you enjoy dead chat if you have to post in the game thread, that's no fun.
We *didn't* get Dead Chat. Only the power roles did.
Well, would have, if Zack had remembered to set up the QT and give players a link to it.
Well, to be fair, in those games there were no power roles. Maybe a single cop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stork
That's how you got balance. Also the scum team was smaller, so you'd have more mislynches in play for the scums and more places to hide early, and less chance of any individual townie getting successful with their votes.
Scum won more than half of those games.
How you design the game is how it's balanced. More vanilla townies means more mislynches which is a net positive for the scum team. Low percentage chance of being correct early means tons of mislynches and people to blame for the town's failures.
Know nothing vanilla townies add to the scum's power, unless they, as an individual player, are both good enough at scum hunting and charismatic enough to change minds, and can single-handedly turn the tide of a bad game.
Those setups separate the adults from the kids, because towning is seriously difficult there with so many voices drowning you out, almost all of them dead wrong to boot.
I opened it a few days ago, saw someone call pizza town and then closed it before my brain exploded.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
IIRC the cop was added just to give townies a fighting chance in those games, because we sucked out loud without one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stork
LOL
I want this link plz
I think I have to fundamentally disagree with this, even a bad townie will present something (either through rightness or wrongness) that will illuminate things to the live players I would think compared with simply no information from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Sure the scum can manipulate it, but I think its probably just as easy to not have to worry about it and focus elsewhere if given the choice.
I think if given the option on night 0, scum would choose VTs cannot talk after death over can every time.
I agree with you wrt having more vanilla townies in the game though, each vanilla town you add, especially where the slot is filled with (new/inexperienced/wrong/obnoxious/whatever anti-villa trait you can think of) players, it only gives the scum a greater chance to kill the players that aren't like that during the night after their mislynches.
*waits for atpg to conjure up an über-answer to all 31 posts in the dead QT.
Sorry, missed this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
You were correctly being read by townies as town, and none of us could find anything to call you scummy about.
This is the main reason why you were so dangerous. It's a gift to be so naturally obviously townie.
This gift will fade after we see you scum a couple of times and do just as well. But I think it was more than just that. I'm very good at twisting everything to look scummy, and you were bulletproof in that regard.
I never had any confidence I could lynch you or even make you look like my partner if I died. It was merely possible, never likely.
Brain slug made me do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
leaving GH alive here inspired by leaving choxorn alive in the Ciretako game. A live protective role for town that cannot scan is a reason why a super-townie player or a claimed town power role isn't being murdered by scum. Not quite enough for my purposes here, but with Winston's role in play and Riedquat's, I was able to successfully argue why my slot wasn't being killed. The mafia had their hands full argument.
There was also some value in letting people think he's a scum roleblocker (or whatever) while specifically defending him. No matter what happens next, people either lynch him, lynch me and then lynch him, or I might have an extra vote.
It's rare that it would then go, pizza lynches, GH doesn't.