The Inquisition [Concluded]

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Well, GH, don't you find it a bit strange that I get 3 scans in a row pinging scum?

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I do find it strange, but I also trust my own judgment. The dcmort thing came out of nowhere and there was no reason to finger him if he wasn't scum at the time. The edse thing was convenient for you, but it also passed my smell test. As for the Sooh result, I suspected her for my own reasons, so I'm naturally going to take a guilty result on her as an affirmation of my suspicions.

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The same Myrddraal who's shown so much flexibility in his orientation toward his townie tools collaborators and PRs?

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Why is this bad? Mafia make sure to be super-consistent in their public actions. To me flexibility indicates trying to figure things out.

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And don't think I've forgotten that nice little episode early in the game, in which you nobly volunteered to be a vig-test, and everyone was onboard until Myrddraal redirected the target to the awful abstaining GoldenKnight.

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I'm making no apologies for this. I volunteered because my RL situation at the time was not going to allow me much time to play for the game. Myrd asked me in private if I wanted to go through with it. I said yes. At that point he relented because, as per his words, I would still be more useful as a non-scum-controlled vote than as a corpse. I didn't take it further than that.

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Here's what's what, GH. Tonight, a large vig group will attack you under my command. There's no power in me or the fractionated townies to make the attack lethal, but at this point I think it's a better alternative than scanning under the impression that I'm not being led by the nose.

If you are scum, there will be a very interesting result, even though you will not be harmed. The nice thing is, it will be evident even if I do not remain alive to elaborate.

If you are not scum, then nothing informative will occur. A wasted night, but if you put so much assurance in Sooh being scum, with or without my scan result, her lynch should follow smoothly anyway.

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Uhhhhhhhhhhhh... okay, I guess.

Do you legitimately have a guilty result on Sooh?

I do indeed have a guilty result on Sooh. It remains to be seen if it's legitimate.

Myrd seems less inclined to find things out than to draw attention away from uncomfortable facts, at times to cover for me and at others to distance himself from me.

Do you have reason to believe it could be illegitimate?

Myrd has been exercising a healthy degree of skepticism towards a role that has a lot of unanswered questions surrounding it as the game has progressed. Can we please hold off on making this cold war hot until we actually lynch the person with an outstanding guilty result?

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Do you have reason to believe it could be illegitimate?

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:inquisitive:

Did I stutter?

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Myrd has been exercising a healthy degree of skepticism towards a role that has a lot of unanswered questions surrounding it as the game has progressed.

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He expressed minimal skepticism either privately or publicly until the point that I mentioned these misgivings to him. Since then, we have not really had contact. That's usually the point at which a man in dark glasses and dark suit receives the message, "He knows too much" through his earpiece.

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Can we please hold off on making this cold war hot until we actually lynch the person with an outstanding guilty result?

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That's what Pizza said yesterday. He died.

*sigh*

I see we're just going to have to let this play out.

You have a guilty result on Sooh but you don't trust it, because the initial suggestion came from me and you're skeptical of my motives.

I would ordinarily be posting another Hades gif at this turn of events but, despite the part of me that still wants to, I do admit that you have cause for this turn of events.

It basically comes down to me trusting my instincts and you exhibiting reasonable paranoia.

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Myrddraal has shared his suspicions with me earlier. Ordinarily I would let him argue further, but seeing as we're on a bit of deadline here, I'm going to quote a recent PM exchange we've had.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Monty claimed to get alignment and night actions. When he reported a hit on dc, he said:


When he reported on edse, he said:

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Surprise, surprise: edse is scum.

He was attacking Visor last night. It's confirmed.

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It seemed odd. If edse was attacking Visor, that meant he must have been attacking Kage, but Monty didn't mention this. And yet he claimed he knew dc had attacked him on a previous night. Wanting to test him, I asked him what edse had been doing previous nights. The conversation went like this:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Do you get historical activity for Edse?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Yes. He was attacking Visor last night.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I'd like to know Edse's actions before last night, if you can supply them.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

I only get actions the night of the scan and the night before the scan.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

What was his activity the night before?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

As I said, he attacked Visorslash.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Hang on, I'm obviously not being clear. You've said that last night he was attacking. What was he doing the night before the scan?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Fourth night: He was attacking Kagemusha.

Fifth night/last night/night of scan: He was attacking Visorslash. He is Mafia-aligned.

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So eventually, everything Monty said was consistent, but it took him ages to get there. If I had had that result, the attack on Kage would have been the first thing I would have mentioned.

Aside from that, one more quote:

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If landlubber can confirm that he was protecting with edse and JHT, no more, no less, then we have to consider the possibility that my scan was spoofed or interfered with.

If that's the case, then lynching edse would be a bad idea. If edse is telling the truth, then the only people from last night unaccounted for would be Nightbringer, Zack, and El Barto. Keep them in mind as alternatives; for now, we need to see if we can intercept landlubber when he gets online.

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So he backed down on the reliability of his scans when it seemed the facts were against him. This was followed by his in-thread behaviour, where he latched onto the El Barto vote when under pressure.

It smells dodgy.

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My reply to him brought up the two major questions we've had:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

1. How exactly the protection nullification works. As I mentioned to Monty, I believe it's a mafia weapon, especially if we assume that Visor was just a normal townie.

2. Monty's exact supposed powers. Seems awful strong for a purely pro-town scanner, especially in light of Pizza's final PM to me and Monty being able to avoid a kill under certain circumstances.

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His response:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

1. I'm inclined to think this is right. It's entirely possible that khaan changed his feedback based on the confusion caused by the 'invalid protection' with you and Sooh. Remember that Sooh was involved in the first coordinated hit on Golden1Knight, so I'm not sure it makes sense that Sooh was somehow not able to protect with the group.

2. This bugs me as well. Not only because of the role claim itself, but because of how unclear it was about what exactly his powers were. I'd be interested to know the time he sent the 'Note that the watch portion' PM.

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To me this seems in line with someone who initially trusted you but had further and further doubts as the game progressed.

At that point, I was working with full confidence in my scan, meaning that "DC attacked me N3 and did nothing N4" and "Edse attacked Visor N5" would straightforwardly entail "Edse attacked Kage N4". Confusion over wording is a strange thing to latch onto.

As for my the scope of my powers, I have a number of weaknesses that I will not reveal because my strategy for tonight relies on their not being exploited.

Going to bed, won't be able to respond until the morning. But I leave you with this: If you trusted me enough to scan Sooh at my behest, why not trust me enough to actually make use of your result?

GH, I was simply asking for an explanation from Autolycus. It was something that made me scratch my head when I read that PM, and I was pondering whether or not I was going to send a PM and ask, but when you lifted the issue to the thread I saw no reason to keep it private.

As for the scan result, ok? It seems odd that my role should produce a guilty result unless there's foul play at hand. I don't know if a framer would be a thing in a game like this, but I wouldn't be surprised. Either that or the results are so muddled they can be read in various ways.

I don't know many things about this game since I've been kept out of the loop for a bunch of it, but the way the scanner is still alive after going public might also signify the mafia having some use of him. Just call it a hunch.

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Originally Posted by Sooh

It seems odd that my role should produce a guilty result

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How do you mean? You're not vanilla?

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If you trusted me enough to scan Sooh at my behest

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I hoped there would be a different result. As it is, the night unfolded just as I expected given Mafia manipulation.

I would say that it is not unprecedented that a scan can be spoofed.

A game hosted by YLC many years back had a scan spoofer. Khaan has been playing since that era, and I would imagine he doesn't give the town these protective powers, vig powers, these numbers, and a detective unless he gives the mafia compensation.

Monty is being inconsistent all 'round. First of all, he says I have only recently turned against him. It's more the case that my doubts have recently solidified enough to go public with them. I've been discussing his potential guilt with ATPG since day 2, when ATPG expressed doubt about the power of his role and suggested he might be a mafia tracker. Several small things caught my attention and built that doubt. None significant in themselves until recently (one small example, Monty said he had scanned Kage, and in his PM he just said it was 'interesting'. A bit like a phishing email...). Not enough to arouse suspicion if we weren't already suspicious.

After getting caught out with his 'scan' of Edse due to unexpected levels of town coordination, Monty backed down on his scanning abilities, saying they could have been tampered with. He now suggests that I could be the one tampering with his results. A bit desperate no? Is it more likely that Monty 'has been interfered with' or that he's lying? Remember that I pointed out the discrepancy between his scan and Edse's presence. Remember that I also pointed out the error in the numbers in write-up (clearing up confusion as no Mafioso would ever do).

Finally, if you still doubt which of us to believe, I'll point out that Kage contacted me in the first night and revealed his role on private. The Shahnaks can testify that I revealed this (without giving Kage's identity) in a QT and coordinated the double vig/protection on Golden to test Kage's claim. There are no post-death reveals in this game. Were I Mafia, Kage wouldn't have survived N0.

Monty, if you're innocent you need to explain a few things, not least why you 'expected' the Sooh result to show guilty. Who knew you were scanning her?

Any why are you gunning for me? It looks a lot like scum trying to deflect attention by proffering up an alternative. Me accusing you isn't a very good reason (although I think El Barto disagrees :wink2:).

Have you revealed what Sooh was doing the last two nights, or did you forget about that part of your abilities (again)?

Such basic WIFOM. Die now.

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Monty, if you're innocent you need to explain a few things, not least why you 'expected' the Sooh result to show guilty. Who knew you were scanning her?

Any why are you gunning for me? It looks a lot like scum trying to deflect attention by proffering up an alternative. Me accusing you isn't a very good reason (although I think El Barto disagrees ).

Have you revealed what Sooh was doing the last two nights, or did you forget about that part of your abilities (again)?

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You can try reading the entire day's posts.

Stop asking questions just to look like you're asking questions.

I just did. I don't see anything that answers those questions which isn't addressed above.

I did see one thing though that slipped by me last time. You say you got a 'ho-hum' result on Sooh and Edse. What you said at the time was that Edse was definitively scum, and had been attacking Visor (and belatedly added Kage).

So what do you mean by 'ho-hum'?

(And what do you mean by WIFOM? Seriously I have no idea)

Edit: You didn't mention what Sooh did the last two nights.

This is getting more and more confusing: Any more roles care to step up?

So Montmorency claims to be a scanner.
ATPG claims to have had a role, not really sure what kind of role, and he's dead. So at least the Mafia must have known.

So assuming Montmorency is a real scanner: The Mafia decided that the role of ATPG was more dangerous to them than Montmorency and decided to go after ATPG. If somebody has more information on ATPGs role that would warrant this, I'd be interested to hear this. Montmorency not being attacked does not really add to his credibility, on first sight, but it might be intentional misdirection by the Mafia.

That's my initial outlook, before the shenanigans of today. Sooh was apparently scanned by Montmorency to be Mafia. But now there's the claim of a Spoofer being around. This person would be either GH or Myrddraal, I guess? They would have the ability to change scan results, if they know that someone else (Montmorency) is scanning the same target. The false scan result would lead to wrong lynches by town. Most telling, Montmorency doesn't even believe in his own ability.

I have three working theories to base my lynch on:
1. Montmorency is a scanner, his scan results are reliable: Sooh is Mafia. So was edse before.
2. Montmorency is a scanner, there is a scan spoofer. His scan results are not reliable. Sooh is not Mafia. Someone is spoofing Montmorency. The suspicion lies on GH and Myrddraal. They both have good arguments against it. Myrddraal has known about Kage and he lived until Night 3 (or 4?). GH has been inactive at first and has become more and more active. For this scenario to be true, Myrddraal and GH would have had to play for the long game from day one. They could have kept Kage around to further their alibi. We don't know how the Mafia actually found out about Kages role, so it might have been Myrddraal all along, who betrayed him. The town trusts them and we now play along to their tune to our demise. Very risky, very clever.
3. Montomrency is not a scanner. He just made that up last turn, so he wouldn't get lynched. Worked like a charm too.

In case 1 there is only Sooh left as the last Mafia. In case 2 and 3 there's still two Mafia out there. They only put one into the writeup last night, to foster a false sense of security among the town. Maybe the second Mafia was busy spoofing scan results, who knows?

So if case 1 is right, we kill Sooh and the game is over. Town wins, everybody is happy. Case 2 or 3 there's still Mafia on the loose, we only have partial leads, everything is a confusing mess.

So Vote: Sooh.

Eliminate the easy option. I'll revisit the other options if there's another day phase. It will be confusing and I'm not looking forward to it.

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I just did. I don't see anything that answers those questions which isn't addressed above.

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Well of course not, if you're not asking for the sake of the answer.

I did not expect Sooh to scan guilty, I expected her scanning guilty to be supportive of a scenario in which I was being tricked.

GH and Pizza knew that Sooh would be scanned. I don't doubt that you did as well.

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Edit: You didn't mention what Sooh did the last two nights.

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Edit: You didn't mention what Sooh did the last two nights.

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And you wonder? You can't even keep track of what my powers are supposed to be!

N6, Sooh scanned as attacking Pizza, and as having attacked Visor the night before.

If you're paying attention, this should be tautological. It was clear from the beginning of the discussion.

I didn't think that ATPG had claimed a role? Where did that come from?

Your option 3 is wide of the mark. Monty has been claiming scanner right from the start.

Monty, it's quite clear from the write-up that that didn't happen. You want us to believe that someone can not only spoof your scans, but can fabricate a back-story of night actions to go with it?

At what stage in the night do you think this happens? What would happen if you submitted you scan orders 5 minutes before the end of the night?

Yes, these questions are rhetorical. They illustrate that your story doesn't stand up to anything more than a casual examination.

That would be, uh, the whole point of contention.

If you heroically assume that the Mafia have no special abilities in particular when killing, then you must admit that there could easily be 3 Mafia alive, and they would have to be among myself, Zack, Barto, and Nightbringer.

Come up with an actual narrative.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I didn't think that ATPG had claimed a role? Where did that come from?

Your option 3 is wide of the mark. Monty has been claiming scanner right from the start.

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Reading between the lines I picked up a role vibe from atpg and it make sense that he was attacked then. Rereading the thread a second time, I can't point my finger to any precise quote, so I might have been off there.

Montmorency only revealed in thread last round, but it's good to know that he revealed to others beforehand. You said that you , GH and ATPG knew about him?



Off-Topic: You can disable the tapatalk signature under the settings Tab. There's a signature option and you can choose 'no signature' there.

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Originally Posted by Zack

How do you mean? You're not vanilla?

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No, I'm exactly vanilla. That's why it's odd that I should be seen as guilty, but as mentioned here there are several instances where there might be someone manipulating the scan results. I know Myrdraal has been in the center of things since the beginning, so I will

Unvote

Vote: Myrdraal

I don't get it... what is it that makes me a good lynch candidate? You might disagree with my arguments regarding Monty, but how does that translate into a vote for me?

The tally as I make it:

Voter	Votee
Autolycus			Myrddraal	Sooh	ElBarto	Montmorency
El Barto	Myrddraal		5	2	2	1
GeneralHankerchief	Sooh
Golden1Knight	El Barto
Ituralde	Sooh
Johnhughtom
Landlubber	Myrddraal
Montmorency	Myrddraal
Myddraal	Montmorency
Nightbringer	Myrddraal
Sooh	Myrddraal
Zack	El Barto

I have highlighted in bold the names of those who were not present at the townie protection of Visor, for your consideration.

I'm still a little bit taken aback by this turn of events.

Monty has been caught out with incorrect scans. I've listed half a dozen other examples of suspicious behaviour on his part, about half of which he has addressed, mostly by dismissing them with no counter-argument other than to blame me. His defence is to accuse his accuser for all of his own inconsistencies.

I am going to laugh so hard when the game ends and it gets revealed that both of you were town.

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His defence is to accuse his accuser for all of his own inconsistencies.

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Precisely.

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Monty has been caught out with incorrect scans.

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Incorrect? PIS. :smug:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Incorrect? PIS. :smug:

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I'm sorry, I don't speak acronym. :wiseguy:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

I am going to laugh so hard when the game ends and it gets revealed that both of you were town.

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I wish I could believe it, but I can't reconcile it with the evidence in front of my eyes.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I don't get it... what is it that makes me a good lynch candidate? You might disagree with my arguments regarding Monty, but how does that translate into a vote for me?

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I don't disagree with your points, but as I see it if Monty is the scanner then somebody who knows who he's scanning has to be the one who gives the misreadings about said person as well. I figured that maybe eliminating those people would give correct scans. Of course then that would mean we would have to believe that mafia wouldn't kill Monty once he has outlived his purpose as someone who can be used to frame innocents. It's a tough call. Monty could also be mafia from where I stand, but I think perhaps this is a better way to go in terms of eliminating mafia.

Right, so you accept that in order for there to be a 'forger' role in this game, they would need to forge both alignment and previous night actions (as this is what Monty claims to get, although he regularly forgets about the past night actions bit). To do this the forger would need to know who was being targeted for a scan by Monty.

It follows that it must be someone who knows who Monty is going to scan. For the record, the only scan I have had any idea about in advance is last-nights' scan (GH told me he had asked Monty to scan you).

When Monty 'outed' DC as scum, he correctly stated that he had done nothing that night. So the person doing the forgery would have to have correctly guessed that dcmort would be inactive that night. Incidentally, if there is a serial killer still alive out there who attacked Monty, you must have known at that stage that Monty was making it up.

It's all very very far fetched. Surely it's much more likely that Monty is leading the town by the nose?

I don't really doubt that Monty has some tracking ability (it would have been incredibly bold to fabricate a tracker role from day 1 without something to back it up). But with both edse and Sooh, his 'results' have been contradicted by the in-game write-ups. I suggest that he is a Mafia aligned or independent (non-town) tracker with his own agenda, making up results when it suits him, and getting caught-out in the process.
@Montmorency, I'm still curious about the 'ho-hum' result you say you got for both Sooh and Edse, despite being very clear and specific at the time of your Edse accusation.

Just to stress the point a little more - let's suppose Monty is innocent, and he will from now on be very carefully keeping his scan targets to himself, and submitting them 5 minutes before the night deadline.

The mafia will surely kill him tonight. An accurate scanner is far to risky for the Mafia to keep around in the late game.

Actually, this should have happened last night... but it didn't.

I'm totally confused.

Unvote; Vote: Sooh.

She voted against Myrddraal without explaining exactly why, as if merely trying to save herself. And since she was appointed as guilty by the alleged scan, maybe we should lynch her anyway, for safety.

Double post, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Just to stress the point a little more - let's suppose Monty is innocent, and he will from now on be very carefully keeping his scan targets to himself, and submitting them 5 minutes before the night deadline.

The mafia will surely kill him tonight. An accurate scanner is far to risky for the Mafia to keep around in the late game.

Actually, this should have happened last night... but it didn't.

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Under my hypothesis, Sooh knew in advance that Monty was going to be protected (because I had a large group of five on it, auto's mess-up of the orders nonwithstanding) and decided to go for a safer target.

Edit: accidental duplicate post

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Under my hypothesis, Sooh knew in advance that Monty was going to be protected (because I had a large group of five on it, auto's mess-up of the orders nonwithstanding) and decided to go for a safer target.

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Fair point. The Mafia have shown they are able to overcome protection groups, but I suppose in the alternative hypothesis Edse would have been the second Mafioso, and perhaps that would mean they couldn't overcome protection groups any more.

But I really struggle to believe that Edse was Mafia given his presence in the Visor write-up. Monty himself claims that his Edse result was tampered with. In that case, I guess that those that attacked Visor are still alive, but actively chose that only one of them should show up that night to feed the theory of Edse's guilt.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

But I really struggle to believe that Edse was Mafia given his presence in the Visor write-up. Monty himself claims that his Edse result was tampered with.

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This seems to be a critical point in your argument against Monty, but I admit that I don't really follow. Could you explain in detail what you mean by this?

In the write-up of the attempted protection of Visor, three groups were present. At first, they were reported as a group of 3, a group of 4 and a group of 2.

The group of two was me and Ituralde. The group of four was your group GH, with khaan initially assuming I was part of that group as well (I was cc'd on the orders) but correcting himself after I pointed out that the numbers didn't seem right. The last group (of three) was an Armouz group of jht, Landlubber and edse. This was claimed in thread by edse.

It's after edse posted this information that Monty announced that his scan must have been spoofed. Actually, both mine and Monty's arguments start with this point - his scan did not match the line-up of the protection. His argument is that obviously I somehow spoofed his results, forging not only the alignment but the history of night-actions. I contend that he's making it up as he goes along.

I highly doubt that Mafioso can appear twice in a write-up, once in the protection group and once as the killer. It directly contradicts Monty's claim that edse was killing Visor. I especially doubt it after khaan went to the trouble of correcting his numbers.

My gut says Vote: Myrddraal

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I highly doubt that Mafioso can appear twice in a write-up, once in the protection group and once as the killer.

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Why? There's precedent.

I find it kinda weird how gung-ho you are about beating that drum (about people appearing in the writeups). You just played in Pirate Ship where keeping track of that turned out to be mostly a distraction.

Alright, so operating under the assumption that there were three original scum, the Visorslash attack happened when there were two of them left (since dcmort's guilt appears not to be in question). They both appear in the writeup - silver mask and pearl mask.

The (revised) protection groups that night were 3-3-2. We know that they would have failed no matter what because some game mechanic caused all protection on Visor that night to be nullified. We're not sure if this was an innate ability or a mafia weapon, but my guess is the latter. Sooh and edse were both allegedly in on the protections - Sooh CC'd her orders to me and edse claimed so in the thread and this was never called into question.

So, at the moment, unless the mafia can be two people at once, the numbers do not appear to match up.

Monty?

A distraction certainly, but not actually directly wrong. If there's precedent, I don't know about it. Note that if you believe that this is likely to be the case, then both mine and Monty's arguments are wrong, a side-show that the mafia are laughing at. In that case, you shouldn't be voting for me.

But really, my argument is not that I am certain (although I am, of course, certain of my own innocence). My argument is about what is most likely.

The bottom line, which is the more likely?
a) The mafia can duplicate themselves in write-ups, and both Monty and I are at each other's throats for no good reason.
b) I, somehow, knew who Monty was going to scan (even though, as far as I know, the only person he told was ATPG). I spoofed both the alignment and the past activity of his targets. When spoofing dc's scan, I correctly guessed that dc would be inactive that night.
c) Monty got caught out in a lie.

My adamance is clearly turning people's guts against me (what an unpleasant metaphor) but from my perspective I'm really struggling to see how Monty's argument is believable.

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Originally Posted by Zack

I find it kinda weird how gung-ho you are about beating that drum (about people appearing in the writeups). You just played in Pirate Ship where keeping track of that turned out to be mostly a distraction.

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It's a fine distinction. I included people as many times as the night actions called for, but never had people double up in one scene (an example of this was the night Curio died - Csargo was both protecting Curio and being recruited by the mafia, but they took place in different sections of the writeup). The Visor attack was clearly a single scene.

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Originally Posted by Golden1Knight

I'm totally confused.

Unvote; Vote: Sooh.

She voted against Myrddraal without explaining exactly why, as if merely trying to save herself. And since she was appointed as guilty by the alleged scan, maybe we should lynch her anyway, for safety.

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Did you miss the part where I explained? Because I did. One of the people who knew Monty's targets might be mafia, and from what I've been able to find out those people would be Myrdraal and GH. I picked one.

Sooh, you agree with my points, but your vote is on me. What do you think of likelihood of the three options (a, b, c) I posted above?

Gathered once more in the courtyard, the royalty and nobility were greeted by such a stunningly pleasant day of weather that they could not help but gaze in aw at the horizon, taking time from their inquisition to appreciate the simple beauty of the world. For approximately four hours, not a word was uttered as all basked in the glory of that which they were a part of.

Of course, all good things must come to an end, and finally Kavehir mustered everyone back to their duties. A vociferous round of debate ensued, with accusations and counter-accusations ultimately resulting in Myrddraal being handed over to the Emperor in chains, all the while protesting the insanity and injustice of it all.

"Myddraal, we have found you guilty of subverting the empire and its citizens. No amount of protest nor coercion on your part will change your destiny," Kavehir proclaimed. "If, indeed, you are innocent, then you will find peace in the next life." With a great swing of his sword, Kavehir sent Myddraal's head fro his neck. "Come, my friends and subjects! Today was a glorious, beautiful day, but let us continue with our progress tomorrow! I am sure Providence will reward us once more!"



Myrddraal 5(El Barto, landlubber, Nightbringer, Monty, Sooh, JHT
Sooh 3(GH, Ituralde, GoldenKnight)
Monty 1 (Myrddraal
El Bart 1 (Zack)






Alive:


Autolycus
El Barto
GeneralHankerchief
Golden1Knight
Ituralde
Johnhughtom
Landlubber
Montmorency
Nightbringer
Sooh
Zack


Lynched:

Abstain (D1)
Andres (D2)
ACIN (D3)
Dcmort(D4)
Edse(D5)
Myrddraal(D6)

Killed:

Csargo (D1)
Bsmith (N2)
Ironside (N3)
Kagemusha(N4)
Visorslash (N5)
Askthepizzaguy(N6)

Attacked:

Ironside (N1)
Golden1Knight (N2)
Montmorency(N3)
Ituralde(N4)

Monty, just because you got your lynch and it's night phase doesn't mean I'm going to let you off the hook for this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Alright, so operating under the assumption that there were three original scum, the Visorslash attack happened when there were two of them left (since dcmort's guilt appears not to be in question). They both appear in the writeup - silver mask and pearl mask.

The (revised) protection groups that night were 3-3-2. We know that they would have failed no matter what because some game mechanic caused all protection on Visor that night to be nullified. We're not sure if this was an innate ability or a mafia weapon, but my guess is the latter. Sooh and edse were both allegedly in on the protections - Sooh CC'd her orders to me and edse claimed so in the thread and this was never called into question.

So, at the moment, unless the mafia can be two people at once, the numbers do not appear to match up.

Monty?

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Neither will I do so should your plan at night "accidentally" backfire and leave me dead.

Oh yeah... the deadli*swish*thunk*gargle gargle*

:hanged:

I just want to take this moment to point out that I am still dead.

This is quite disconcerting. Usually the white mage is here by now to rez me.

I suppose the maggots can have their fun, but if I'm not alive by morning I'm going to be pretty smelly. I blame that jerk Abstain for all this.

I've been a bit busy, but yes, the attack is going through, orders pending.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Monty, just because you got your lynch and it's night phase doesn't mean I'm going to let you off the hook for this:

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These are the same concerns I sent myself the other day, to both you and Myrd in various forms.

But here's when I first mentioned it - it was in-thread, at the time Visor was claiming scanner to distract the Mafia attack:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

What makes you certain that the mafia can't double up on night actions? It's a reassuring assumption that appearing in the writeup fully clears a person, but it's not necessarily a correct one. Locking ourselves into this idea of thinking is a very poor decision.

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OK, but presumably Mafia can't shadow-clone themselves.

If 9 people were with Visor, and 2 scum attacked, then those 9 cannot be scum unless we assume Visor got his scan wrong - unlikely given that he received the Kage treatment for his efforts.

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I will check the backdoors if I have too. Just remember, again: If I am wrong here then the scum must be some of Zack, Barto, and Nightbringer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Sooh, you agree with my points, but your vote is on me. What do you think of likelihood of the three options (a, b, c) I posted above?

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@Sooh, I'm interested in your assessment. Don't feel it would be rude to reply just because I've expired :smile:

I'll get to it. Right now I'm at work and can't really sit down and assess the situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

A distraction certainly, but not actually directly wrong. If there's precedent, I don't know about it. Note that if you believe that this is likely to be the case, then both mine and Monty's arguments are wrong, a side-show that the mafia are laughing at. In that case, you shouldn't be voting for me.

But really, my argument is not that I am certain (although I am, of course, certain of my own innocence). My argument is about what is most likely.

The bottom line, which is the more likely?
a) The mafia can duplicate themselves in write-ups, and both Monty and I are at each other's throats for no good reason.
b) I, somehow, knew who Monty was going to scan (even though, as far as I know, the only person he told was ATPG). I spoofed both the alignment and the past activity of his targets. When spoofing dc's scan, I correctly guessed that dc would be inactive that night.
c) Monty got caught out in a lie.

My adamance is clearly turning people's guts against me (what an unpleasant metaphor) but from my perspective I'm really struggling to see how Monty's argument is believable.

---

You asked what I thought of your scenarios, well, I don't know much about playing this kind of mafia at all. The only experience I have is by watching Pizza play with you guys. All I've ever played besides that is mafia where communication has happened solely in thread. This is unusual for me.

From where I stand and what I know about this kind of mafia I haven't seen anywhere that people can duplicate themselves in writeups. I don't know if that would be likely or not at all. I kind of depend on you guys there to tell me whether or not this is possible.

As for your point b, from what I understood in this thread it sounded as though you and GH were both part of the group who knew in advance who Monty was going to scan. If that is not correct and you said that somewhere that I missed then I apologize. It is possible that some of the scans have been correct while others have been compromised, so dc may have been actual mafia for all I know, and then someone started the manipulation.

Your scenario c is also a possibility, but one I think would be dangerous to assume. If Monty is in fact a scanner then it would be bad of us as a town to lynch him. However I assume as well that mafia will make sure to get rid of him once he has outplayed his role and starts becoming dangerous for them instead of useful.

As for which one is more likely I don't really think either of these are mutually exclusive, and clearly given where my vote was at I didn't trust you to be the good townie. Now whether or not I was right remains to be seen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

I will check the backdoors if I have too. Just remember, again: If I am wrong here then the scum must be some of Zack, Barto, and Nightbringer

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FTFY. I am not mafia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sooh

The only experience I have is by watching Pizza play with you guys. All I've ever played besides that is mafia where communication has happened solely in thread. This is unusual for me.

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Nearly six years ago we scientifically proved that he's always the mafia. Thus we can conclude that you only know how to play as mafia. Therefore, since you're playing, you must be mafia. My logic is undeniable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Barto

FTFY. I am not mafia.

Nearly six years ago we scientifically proved that he's always the mafia. Thus we can conclude that you only know how to play as mafia. Therefore, since you're playing, you must be mafia. My logic is undeniable.

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*giggle*

I must hear more about this!

Happy to oblige, my fair lady.

Civfanatics is where you must go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Barto

Happy to oblige, my fair lady.

Civfanatics is where you must go.

---

I was, of course, not a mafioso in the game linked above.

Always mafia, except most of the time when I'm not.

Hush! You're dead, therefore you can't post and you haven't posted because dead people don't post. I'm just trying to justify why I'll vote Sooh tomorrow.

Ah, but I can post.

And I'm not dead. I'm just restin'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I was, of course, not a mafioso in the game linked above.

Always mafia, except most of the time when I'm not.

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10% of the time 100% of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Barto

Hush! You're dead, therefore you can't post and you haven't posted because dead people don't post. I'm just trying to justify why I'll vote Sooh tomorrow.

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Tsktsktsk... Not a good reasoning my dear. Looks like you're trying to invent something. Might you be the mafia we've been looking for?

GAMBIT SCHEMA CONTINGENCY BROADCAST

1. If I die at the hands of a single attacker, then it cannot have been Nightbringer.

2. There should be a total of 5 attackers on GH in the writeup.

3. My scenarios for remaining scum: El Barto + Nightbringer; Sooh; GH

:cool2:

GAMBIT RESPONSE PATTERN WHISKEY INDIA FOXTROT OSCAR MIKE VARIANT NINE NINE DASH OH THREE EIGHT SEVEN RUBBER DUCKY APOCALYPSE

1. If I die at night I am personally holding Montmorency 100% responsible.

Well, one of us is certainly going to die - unless you're legitimately scum.

What on earth has Monty hatched... Is this the 'grand plan' stage of Mafia smoke screen?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

GAMBIT SCHEMA CONTINGENCY BROADCAST

1. If I die at the hands of a single attacker, then it cannot have been Nightbringer.

2. There should be a total of 5 attackers on GH in the writeup.

3. My scenarios for remaining scum: El Barto + Nightbringer; Sooh; GH

:cool2:

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You're that certain I'm town, even though I have no verifiable action on the group hug visor night?

In most of the cases I have provided for. Your being scum, or GoldenKnight, or landlubber, or whatever - in such a case all my secrets will have failed, and I'll throw up my hands and wait for the end-reveals.

But I think it's a good bet, assuming all orders were fixed by the end of the night/when I revealed my gambit.

Echo delta foxtrot, do you copy?

Whiskey has screwed the pooch, adopt cal-zone contingency at 0 7345.

Teapot over and out.

Down Whiskey! Bad dog!

My apologies, but Thanksgiving preparations along with a secondary family issue caught me flat-footed. The game will have to be delayed for, likely, three days. Again, my apologies.

https://i.imgur.com/Qn7oYmr.gif

Yes, that'll do quite nicely. This turkey shall be cooked rotisserie-style. Mmmm.... :drool:

The suspense! The suspense!

Actually that suits me just fine, as I'm pretty busy with work and my birthday this week!

Happy Thanksgiving.

There's no suspense if you're the mafia.

:stare:

Ituralde.









I don't know if you're mafia but I'm going to harp on it until the last of my flesh has decomposed and fallen off of my bones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seireikhaan

My apologies, but Thanksgiving preparations along with a secondary family issue caught me flat-footed. The game will have to be delayed for, likely, three days. Again, my apologies.

---

Approved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Ah, but I can post.

And I'm not dead. I'm just restin'.

---

Oh, good, then we can paint some tiger stripes on him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sooh

Tsktsktsk... Not a good reasoning my dear. Looks like you're trying to invent something. Might you be the mafia we've been looking for?

---

*These are not the mafiats you are looking for. Move along, move along.*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

GAMBIT SCHEMA CONTINGENCY BROADCAST

1. If I die at the hands of a single attacker, then it cannot have been Nightbringer.

2. There should be a total of 5 attackers on GH in the writeup.

3. My scenarios for remaining scum: El Barto + Nightbringer; Sooh; GH

:cool2:

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COMBAT OPERANDI: REBUT NONSENSE

1. How come? Explanation required.

2. How come? Explanation required.

3. How come? Explanation req Again, a mafiat I amn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seireikhaan

My apologies, but Thanksgiving preparations along with a secondary family issue caught me flat-footed. The game will have to be delayed for, likely, three days. Again, my apologies.

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But I was just watching FOX News and they told me the President had pardoned the turkey this year… have they lied to me about that as well?

Bah, if he really wants to be a god among progressives he can pardon all the turkeys. Everywhere.

And give them their freedom.

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!1

Does that mean we won't ever cook turkey?