When I created my account back in 2007 this forum was the best TW Forum around, it had thousands of active members and the board was actually nice to view. Now it's a ghost town and the board is sorry but horrible.
What happened then?
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When I created my account back in 2007 this forum was the best TW Forum around, it had thousands of active members and the board was actually nice to view. Now it's a ghost town and the board is sorry but horrible.
What happened then?
Hello Jasper The Builder,
The software was updated recently and none of the old parts can be reused or easily copied over. Then this vanilla install has its issues to solve. That takes time.
I was hoping ETW and NTW would bring in a much larger amount of new guys than it did.
CA stopped making good games and they won't support their old ones.
I arrived
Yes.
Well you left quite a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotan
wrong. nvm.
that has notihng to do with the forum....Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
In all honesty, many of those members you described came over as joint .org and TWCenter members. A huge part of them couldn't keep up with the maturity of the .org, while I changed and adapted to the .org and left TWCenter.
In short, most of the TWCenter people couldnt handle the .org.
Quite frankly that is insulting to the members of the twc of which I am one. I have seen just as much immaturity and idiocy in the backroom as in the pit. It is easy to avoid the fools in twc just ignore threads about eastern europe and you are good.
i noticed the same thing, i joined the org and twc centre at roughly the same time in 2006. I used to mainly use the org becasue of EB, but the last 6 months i have started spending more time on the tw centre initially due to Broken Crescent. Whilst i am more of a lurker and not really a 'social' user of either forum, i get the impression that twc is much busier than the the org currently - Has this always been the case?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper The Builder
In regards to TW related things, I suppose that is the case. They have what? 10 times more members then us?
Org regulars hangs around not only for TW but also for Taverns, Social groups and most of all. Close Org community and our beloved over lord Tosa.
I mean no disrespect to TWC as they are big successful forum and I visit there sometimes, but Org is where I started and it is where I spend most of my time.
You don't think the quality of Total War games might affect participation on a Total War forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian Iron
The Org has always has always been more a community of people who happen to have played a TW game at some time than really dedicated to just TW games, but I think you can't just disregard that right away. Few people post in the ETW/NTW forums because most of the people here aren't excited about the games.
This is spot-on my view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
This forum doesn't look that empty to me... but that may just be because I don't visit the game forums anymore.
TWC is too crowded anyway.
Me like teh org more.
i didnt mean it to be, but if you look at most users at TWCenter, you will notice what I have described: immaturity. It isn't an insult to many users there, but you have to admit that many are immature children (many are actually children/tweens).\Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blackadder
I don't wish to turn this into a TWC bash thread, but you must admit what is true.
Sometimes I forget this is actually a total war forum. I played Empire but that will most likely be my last total war game. I used to be active within the MP community but slipped out of that to. I still stick around here though because I like the people and I like the discussion. It's still the only forum I pretty much check every day. Sure, it's less busy than its used to be but maybe that gives it a more, errrr, homely feel?
Prussian I have just noticed your join date- how on earth did you manage 2500 posts in a year!Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian Iron
Its amazing how many situations warrant external consulting for teenagers these days. Prussian is simply doing what we all should have done as teenagers: Ask those who have been through it for advice on anything new.
He needs advice for all the laydees he pursues.Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
I would hazard a guess that there are more people here who activley play Paradox games than CA ones... Funny really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
This is exactly why I have hard time leaving this place. I just like Org's "homely feel" as you put it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tibilicus
Fix'd. :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotan
what about eastern europe......Quote:
Quite frankly that is insulting to the members of the twc of which I am one. I have seen just as much immaturity and idiocy in the backroom as in the pit. It is easy to avoid the fools in twc just ignore threads about eastern europe and you are good.
i checked out the twc once it looked scary and those damn reputation points annoy me.
2500 post i had like 12 posts until i realized the tavern existed last year.
i like the .org because i know almost everyone and i can recognize most people as soon as i see their avatar.
its nicer and more polite without being juvenile.
but yeah the homey feel is whats best.
even though i have to deal with canucks like megas.
Oh another thing, all the good mods like barocca, BKS, and Beirut left.
Now we have a bunch of ostralians running the show! Lame!
I nearly put that :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah
Good thing you never saw my join date or post count...Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
Oh my Beskar. You post more then Pizza?:dizzy2:
Oh no, 3 Australian moderators...two of which are Backroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by tibilicus
How many american moderators? :tongue:
You know I love you ostralians really. Other than when you cheat in the cricket, which you do often seeming there is no other explanation as to why we would lose..Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
*Shakes fist, but can't think of anything witty to say*Quote:
Originally Posted by tibilicus
I'm the only Backroom moderator from 'strayaQuote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
Quote:
Originally Posted by tibilicus
The performance of a countries cricket team should be a criterion for a person to be moderator at this site?Quote:
Originally Posted by tibilicus
Looks like you gotta get some more Aussies then Tosa. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
@ CA: My bad, has Pape gone?
Always Tosa, ALWAYS.Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
:laugh4:
:laugh4: Oh that has to be a new rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
Gone from the BR, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
Look like you won't be a mod any time soon :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by tibilicus
i just joined the twc for mafia and i want to say the gameroom is far superior here. it is a ghost town there. i cant believe how empty i found one game to join.
The org is being slowly but surely detached from its relation to tw, especially past Empire. I think that as far as the org was concerned Empire was make or brake; and it seems that its brake after all. The other reason is that the (strong) org demographic revolving around MTW/STW will fade to nothingness as the games are less and less compatible with newer systems and ca won't fix them by all accounts.
Part of the reason is the original .org demographic itself; the org started out as the tw forum that had the most strong presence from the mp community during the stw/mtw days; and back then the mp community and the mp game were by all accounts very enjoyable and attracted many dedicated gamers that knew lots about gaming and games and pcs and played really well. In terms of SP tw was also addressed to less mainstream and more dedicated gamers - the devs were puting an effort in terms of historical plausibility, strategic and tactical depth and challenge, aesthetics and atmosphere.
With RTW the demographic of tw changed and the org attracted too quite a following both from the SP and the new mp communities, as well as a significant part of the modding community (EB one of the most significant that makes up for a very substantial of org daily traffic today). Many people that joined the org from that era are still around to this day. M2TW continued the same trend, although by that time it eventually became abundantly clear that the TWC had become the hub for modding and for SPers.
Possible reasons for this shift may be the more SP newby friendly atmosphere of the twc, that lacked strong criticism from people from the STW/MTW era with whom the new games did not sit well, the reputation and personalised avatars and the general more diy and more loose tone of conversation. Clearly those matched the most generally younger audience of RTW/M2TW too.
All in all, the org is changing - the most frequented places are the tavern, the arena and of course the gameroom (no idea about the backroom, as i'm not interested), and the RTW/M2 modding sections probably due to EB and EB2. The main tw forums lack tw related leadership (moderators or leading members) that would attract others' attention or are simply suffering because ca left the tw games to their fate or both. For empire and ntw the stats of threads/topics in the main forums speak for themselves, although March last year (at ETW launch) there were hundreds of viewings. The really poor state of the game at release and the unfortunate lack of ETW mods in the org hit those parts of the forum hard. Not that anyone is to blame for this - had Empire been as good as it was promised many old hands would have spread the word and then more and more, but unfortunately it was the exact opposite: old hands spread rightly the word that the game wasn't really worth it. On top of this all, the ETW section lacked leadership; Martok rarely was seen posting about the game past two first months, Mr Beane is absent since last year March and Nelson is also not appearing in the forum as a participant. Only Fisherking keeps teh forum slowly going.
A side effect of this situation is that many of the org awards need simplifying - voting shows that there is simply not enough interest for so many award categories and so many nominees. Also moderators often take awards for years because people vote for them for their general contribution and even "status" instead of their contribution in the year that voting is being carried for.
Although of course the org is not responsible for the overly commercial direction tw took - it seems at this stage to be coming off from present tw. However from M2 and especially for RTW/MTW/STW, the org has some of the most knowledgeable members about the game with no equals to other online communities.
All in all i think that the newer sections lack a bit care and foresight; the ETW/NTW section needs people to moderate that play/mod the game and dont just moderate invisibly. I also reckon as i wrote in a number of posts last year that puting Andres to moderate the reboudt as if it was the gameroom was a questionable move that hurt the mp traffic for the org at the very launch of a new tw game (which is a crucial time, since many return, make new accounts etc). Tomisama was an excellent choice but even a good leader needs members to lead somewhere, unfortunately there were none left there. Even people like Swoosh So that were always posting harmlessly were given out infractions over misunderstandings. The results are clear to see - at least in the M2 forums there were some well informed - no matter how heated - debates. Yet not even this happens now - really sad.
The org is meybe having right now a decision to make - if forum leaders and admin think that its ok to become a homely forum related a bit more loosely to tw is fine, then the current status quo can remain. However if not, action need to be taken for the newer parts of the tw forums.
In any case this site has been instrumental for me, in a very difficult period of my life. I met people here that i became close friends - a thing that i had never imagined was possible. They taught me a lot regarding the tw games and also honored me with their company and friendship.
:bow:
This is what it's all about, imo. Ditto here. Congrats. Many believe that true friendships can't be made on the 'net. They're wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
I think that you are right - but then again its very wierd knowing people by chatting online or by playing games in mp. You sort of feel the personality of the other person in the way he plays, and this is an indescribable experience - you haven't even seen the person but you know it.
However the lack of the physical presence of the other is indeed daunting at times. Also daunting is the fact that the friendship revolves around a certain way of life ie of gaming/socialising online. Outside of that framework and assumption, online friendships have difficulty existing, and this for me became somewhat troublesome, i mean having to maintain the lifestyle in order to maintain the friendships.
I now wish that i could meet those that we came close online, and i somewhat feel that otherwise the friendship is like a bird with one wing. However i heard about an episode of people that had become very close online and decided to meet. In the meeting they said almost nothing for two hours, and then went home and... logged in and passionately said everything chatting :)
I find this cute and the essence of online friendship, yet i decided to make friends differently after a certain point - not because i was dissapointed from anyone, but because the gaming/socialising online lifestyle was something that i gradually moved on from.
:bow:
gollum. When are you going to join us in the game room :p
Never, i hope :)
:bow:
PS just a humorous way to state my own thesis on this, and by no means judgement to the many people that have lots of fun in the gameroom. All parts of the org are good, and all type of org members are good.
:bow:
Gameroom is evil...
It's like giving the finger to the devil but he takes your entire arm. :no:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I'd hate to hear your description of the Backroom then :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
He takes a very broad interpretation of the word "finger".
that is not "finger" but "the finger"
:bow:
its true for me the gameroom started with capo.............
i remember when having a hundred posts was like WHOAH!
On your first line.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
I must concur. Martok seems to joining us less and less. It was only a matter of time I fear. Fisherking is doing a wonderful job, but there is only so much one man can do. I respect him for this and a few other reasons. The choice of moderators is an old and secretive ritual. Clouded in dark deeds and baby's blood. Quite a few people expected me to reign as SUPREME OVERLORD OF EMPIRE TOTAL WAR (imagine that said by Lurr, Ruler of planet Omicron Persei 8!) but Tosa/whoever else made the right choice. Martok and Nelson have done their job very well.
Hall of Fame: Yes. needs a massive reboot. Many, many less categories.
The MP mods have been explained by Tosa, and I agree. Singleplayer moderator, multiplayer assistant moderator. Avoids possible MP clan fueds.
I find that insulting honestly. You're basically implying "Stay away from the threads, they're just a pile of junk" when we are actually discussing something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blackadder
But then again, ignorance is bliss.
...by having almost no traffic at all. Is there any mp forum that has no mp clan feuds? This is irrelevant argumentation and it is so because you are not a tw mper.Quote:
Originally posted by Pevergreen
Singleplayer moderator, multiplayer assistant moderator. Avoids possible MP clan fueds.
The result is just sad, whichever way you look at it, and as i told you then, repeating that line, was beside the point. Its all the more beside the point now that the redoubt is a true ghostown and the strategy/approach didn't work, just as i warned a year ago it wouldn't.
It may not have, but you can't blame Tosa's decision solely.
The entire MP community is down. Look at the MP awards this year...I had to nominate Megas...
pevergreen, please try to make it a habit when you talk about sensitive matters to choose your words carefully. I haven't even mentioned Tosa anywhere, let alone distribute responsibilities to him or anyone else. Also make it a habit to talk about things that you are directly responsible for and knowledgeable about. This is a matter for the staff to think - not for you and me to discuss in the open. If the staff wanted to discuss it in the open they would have certainly already done so, i doubt they need you to defend them and their choices.
I think TW multiplayer participation at this site is down, but not elsewhere. MP participation may simply be "down" at this site or overall participation at this site may be down. Looking at the figures, I would go for the latter. It's a real pity because this is by far the best TW fansite.Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
gollum is right, there is no trouble because there is virtually no traffic. Is this the solution?
Yohei
I'm sorry, I got confused when you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
I presumed you were referring to the quote in your post, which is what TosaInu gave. I did then, and I do now, agree with that.Quote:
and as i told you then, repeating that line, was beside the point. Its all the more beside the point now that the redoubt is a true ghostown and the strategy/approach didn't work, just as i warned a year ago it wouldn't.
I also agree that if the staff wanted it out in the open they would have done so. They did not, yet you in this post: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2447247 do bring it up.
You brought up the subject. You also gave your view on the moderators of the N:TW and E:TW sections.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
Nothing wrong with that, but in my opinion (just stressing this is how I read it) you point out how they are lackluster. One could easily, again in my opinion, see that as an accusation. I don't believe anyone will, since you are not that type of member.
On defending them: I've been against them as much as I've agreed with them. *remembers the Elmo thread*
edit:
I wouldn't have any idea. I don't visit any other TW sites but this. I believe its down because I can go into the E:TW multiplayer option and see less games up than if I go into the R:TW lobby and only count vanilla games, no mods...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohei
pevergreen, i drop the subject here, with you. You take the wrong turn and the wrong tone, probably due to lack of tact and lack of foresight, which are understandable in your age. All of your last post is argument for the sake of arguing. Next time you decide to argue with someone over something, make sure you are responsible for it, and knowledgeable about it. Otherwise your points have little if any relevance, i'm afraid.
On that occasion your opinions/conclusions were based solely on hearsay and on the thread content - that is to say that you were not in possession of the "full facts" as it were.Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
Yohei
What occasion. Its not like theres one on each side of the tallyboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohei
gollum: I'm happy to drop it. :bow:
:bow:
I greatly enjoyed this forum back in the day. I used to only ever go to TWC to download Rome Total Realism. This was the only place I went to from the very beginning. I remember reading Frogbeastegg's (sp) Shogun and MTW guides (I still use some of the tactics to this very day) and downloading all the best MTW mods here. After I got burnt out on M2TW: Kingdoms I didn't visit any TW forums until the pre-release hype for ETW started to kick into overdive, and then I came back to the Org only to discover tumble weeds.
I make most of my TW posts at TWC these but I wish I didn't have to. For a forum about video games, it's remarkable how few people actually want to talk about the gameplay in the game discussion sections. Honestly, 90% of the people there are complete morons.
The main camps are:
- Deluded, irrational nationalists. They somehow manage to twist any thread, no matter how harmless the topic may seem, into a nationalistic pissing match. The political section of TWC is completely unbearable but it'd be fine if it just stayed there, but this crap seeps into every section of the board.
- Flag Nazis a.k.a. Button Nazis. These are the guys who's only measuring stick for how good or poor the games are is how accurate the uniforms and flags are. Every missing or extra button on a jacket, every surplus strand of hair on a bearskin hat, every misplaced pixel on a flag are all unforgivable sacrileges that completely destroy their enjoyment of the game. A related camp are the armchair generals who nitpick the games looking for anything that isn't exactly like history (OMG, you mean regiments didn't actually include 160 people?), using quick skims of wikipedia in order to come off as highly knowledgeable military historians.
- Pre-teens and teenagers. Everyone knows what these people do to forums, so I won't elaborate except to say I found it hilarious that so many 13-year-olds claimed to be ripped off, cheated, and insulted as a consumer (in the height of the outrage over ETW) when they all got their mommy to buy the game for them or pirated it.
:laugh4: Sorry if that's way off topic but I had to get that rant off my chest (that would obviously get deleted on TWC itself). It's just not that good, but its the fastest way to get my TW discussion fix today.
I really miss this place. Everyone knows what the Org is, so there's got to be a way to pump some life back into this place. Maybe all the old Org ex-pats at TWC can start a boycott? :idea2:
I think we must be careful not to become too pessimistic.
Apparently, the .Org audience and E:TW didn't match very well. It happens. Can't force one to love a game he doesn't like :shrug:
However, I'm still a proud member of this community. We have some real gems at this place, wonderful people who can debate about a wide range of subjects in an intelligent, civilised and mature way. There's a lot of potential at this place and pessimism will get us nowhere. In fact, exaggerated pessimism will eventually lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Indeed pessimism can be fatal, and it should be avoided.
However so can be inaction in the face of factual signs, inability or indifference to read factual signs and wrong choices as to how to react to challenges and the changing times - in certain instances. It is in light of these that some, in good will and as loving members of the org, speak.
:bow:
Ah dear gollum, but for all our disagreement about .Org policy concerning MP, I really appreciate your insights, contributions, opinions and concerns.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
You're one of those gems I was talking about :bow:
:bow:
I also noticed a downfall of participants... I would say it is because of 2 things:
1. The TW serie just does not hold up... Shogun was great, medieval quite ok, rome a disaster untill patched... Then they still havent sorted problems with medieval 2 and dont even get me STARTED on empire...
Think medieval 2 was the killer, they launched a game with an inactive AI... Most people had 15min of fun surrounding opposite army with cannons before moving on to games that cared about their customers and had some beta-testers (note that major bugs are still not fixed).
2. That is why the forum has lost life cause of the GAME SERIES it represents. Another point is that the forum in itself has scared away a lot of members. Either members gets banned for being too immature, or they get banned for being to educated (actually arguing against mainstream). This, at least, is my oppinion.
This leaves a very small bunch of mediocre people, who others have no interest in and who are irrelevant to each other.
Aswell as some KICK ASS people in the very secluded sections, only, new members doesnt even know about them...
As it is now, we lose 2-3 for every 1 we get.
I certainly know were you are coming from Kadagar_AV, but if you notice carefully you'll see that RTW (and to a lesser extent M2) were very much embraced by the org: the Coloseum has nearly 100k posts as much as the Main hall and the Citadel, not to mention the very very frequented RTW modding sections.
They (RTW/M2) most certainly though as you say carried a trend that didn't sit well with the core org members and this was shown finally with ETW. The level of participation for ETW was phenomenal the first month of release; at times 100+ people were hanging around the Parliament. However as the release fever started to recess and the flaws of the game became more and more obvious particiaption droped to quite low levels for a new tw game.
:bow:
Other reasons that weren't mentioned about geting new members in the org, are that: a) its more difficult to achieve membership status than other forums b) there is a strong line from forum leaders/old members, and c) there is uniformity of appearance.
In fact b) and c) co-operate.
I think that for new/younger members, its far harder to remain interested in the org. Of course its true that these very same points constitute the reasons why for the org's greatest strengths, ie more civilised environment, more deep level of conversation and generally far more tidy behaviour and looks.
However, perhsp forum leaders and the admin, may want to think about putting some amount of water to their wine, as these reasons could potentially be driving away young/new members by appearing as a barrier.
At the same time, as new membership rates fall, forum leaders (moderators/regulars/senior members) become more and more dominant and the place less dynamic and even less accessible.
Perhaps its time to reconsider many of these points, assuming of course that the leaders/admin judge it good to change the status quo.
One thing to consider is that about 1/5th of the active membership use the invisible mode. That makes the forum look more empty. But in the end my opinion is that its up to us members to try and make the forum more interesting and easy to enter by contributing positively to those areas where we frequent. Along the lines: "What can you do to Org, instead of what Org can do to you" .
If you want to Org, just be patient and you will. Thinking the right thoughts will also help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Well maybe" for " would have been better word in English.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Well, i base my comments to the "users online" index that seems to showcase everyone online - be it a logged on member or a guest. According to that index and observations made on the same index of the twc, on average, as it has been already stated i think in this thread, twc has 10 times more traffic. Also thread numbers in sub forums are another reliable index, as are the "viewings" index of every sub-forum. I personally think they all tell the same tale.
I doubt that the org is lacking in interest. By all accounts it is interesting if nothing else, but this is not relevant to the point being discussed. In addition, i believe that most regulars, either staff or not do contribute very much, and it couldn't have been otherwise - else they wouldn't be regulars and staff - again its kind of beside the point.
The point is the existing environment of the org and the relationship and interaction between the same and new tw games and new members, as well as the course the org has run and the direction it wishes to follow in the future.
Well i am long standing member of both Org and TWC and i can tell you that volume isnt everything but still needed. I dont think Org is hostile to new members to slightest extend. TWC´s growth came mostly with putting priority to modding and expanding amount of specialized subforums, where their "senior" member class,the "citizens" tried their best to contribute by creating interesting threads and posts. Large emphasis is also made on the appearance of forums, while the TWC members have created for example various forum skins.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
With ETW and NTW the totalwar modding community will not be the magnet it used to be in times of MTW, RTW and M2TW. Simply because the games are less and less moddable. So if Org wants to survive.My opinion is that we should look into what else this forum can offer to people other then TW content and work on those aspects. In any case i think best way would be by creating a facelift for the old gall by creating bunch of new forum skins. I dont know if Tosa could create a test board where we could test new skins?
I appreciate that you are a long standing member of the community, but you are not the only one.
I doubt very much that the twc became popular only due to being interesting. Modding played certainly a very large part, but so did the fact that twc was far more open as a community, is using the reputation system and has internal politics based on it, it allows custom avatars, by all accounts was open to less mature and younger members and also embraced the newer tw games. To be perfectly honest a large part of the popularity of twc is unwnted from an orgahs point of view and i certainly agree with that. Amidst the accessible and loose environment there is a lot of pettiness, and this certainly also contributes (to its popularity). However, the org may be on the edge of having reached the other end - ie being isolationist due to its conservatism in regards to the tw community.
Volume is not everything - but a certain amount of inflow of new members is needed for the forum to remain dynamic both in terms of environment and participation. The problem is that past a critical point, a "downward spiral" effect may make the effects of lack of inflow sharply dramatic. Such an effect has already taken place; during the RTW years the org and the twc were almost equal. However by the time of M2TW the org lost ground because the trend of M2 was in line to RTW while the org core was expecting a return to pre_RTW gameplay, and because it was known to younger players by that time that twc was more oriented to CA's line. Also the org, being traditionally a bastion of the STW/MTW community that was its core, by the time of M2 was short of knowledgeable leadership in regards to new TW games. The only person that could do so (lead a new tw forum in the org), was econ21, and his absence as a moderator hurt the ETW section. Dont get me wrong; i understand that people come and go - but having only one person for that job (leadership in a new tw game sub forum) isn't exactly a sign of health in terms of participation.
I never said im the only one and i know one or two things about what happened at TWC during my active days there. But i wont go into commenting anything of it as i dont think it would be fair to either of these forums. I do agree that having likes of DukeJohn, Myrddraal and EpistolaRichrad as moderators in modding section was great thing for Org in the days of RTW when the community was expanding rapidly. Now if the Org doesnt posses such characters for ETW and NTW, that is a bad thing, but you cant force people to do the job if there is no interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
So to me first thing would be to make Org look fancy enough for new people and work so the subforums would be vibrant. If that would be successful then no doubt we would gain many new interesting people also. Copy catting TWC is not an option as there is one TWC already. Org should adapt to new times, but not by loosing its essence.
This is indeed the core of the matter - change org's hardline in several areas or not.
I dont think that the org should turn into twc, neither i've ever implied that people should be forced to do the job. My comments were simply pointing out that there is a reason why there are few people to do it - because the org's core does not really like new tw.
There are several areas that the org's policy is perhaps too tight for its own good in terms of influx of new members; these are:
1. Avatar policy - even the moderators sounded happy to get new ones with the new infusion of NTW avatars.
2. Junior Member status - often frustrating even.
3. Strong line of the majority, that consists of more mature (age and otherwise) members that creates a strict environment for younger members, and also has often strong and common opinions overall.
Again, dont get me wrong; these are the very same points that are good about the org and indeed make it what it is. And so any changes - if judged appropriate - they should be respectful to the character of the org.
However, it would be rather sad imo for the org to evolve into a slowly dying place due to the lack of influx of members to take up office. Imo again, that's exactly whats happening right now. I;m not an admin, not even staff. But its clear that a crtical point is fast appraoching for the org, in terms of direction, content and demographic. If it is judged that the status quo and its foreseeable future is acceptable, then fine. If not, something's gotta be done in order to strengthen and revitalise the relationship of the org and new tw as well as the demographic.
The devolved model that TWC uses, where staff are very ready to allow local interests to have limited moderation powers in their own forums, may also contribute towards the dedication that members have towards TWC, which is effectively the gateway and host for their own little forum. And for the more rabid, there is also the abiding feature of TWC, the site politics. I don't think I've seen another internet forum that formally gives its members so many rights, to the eternal frustration of its staff. Thank goodness the scene is saner now than it used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
These are indeed important matters and i would like to hear input form more Orgahs concerning these matters. This next thing is just my personal opinion, but for example if we look at ETW modding and we would like to have talented modders as moderators. If i were a admin i would offer full Moderatorship to both Mailman653 and King Louise Assurbanipal. If Fisherking is indeed the heart and soul of ETW forums, maybe he should then indeed run those forums. This is in no way criticizm towards anyone, but i think that those who have the will and enthusiasm, should be able to have means to project that.
We have many great unique things, like the PBEM section,gameroom and chapter house.But i agree that it is the TW section from which new people come in. Maybe for example it should be seriously discussed to drop the whole junior member thing atleast for a time to see if that would cause more trouble then good things.
Edit: Pannonian i think you know my views on site politics? I guess im still one of the only citizens who cant even see the Curia in TWC, which priviledge Imb gave me long time a go.:smug2:
I very much agree with all you've just posted. Indeed these are very useful suggestions imo.
I don't know, man; I'm still here. Though I was banned plenty of times, I think they just sort of gave up on me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
You're out of touch man. The politics moved to Q&S long ago, where I was chiefly responsible for fending off the rabble for the best part of a year, tearing out much of my hair in the process. The Curia hasn't seen any controversy since around 2007, and is nowadays chiefly the forum where citizens wander around wondering what the place is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha