The Toeies.

Ha ha ha ha oh my aching sides. You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh. At this rate they'll be gone by the end of the decade. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

First the cast iron referendum, that we may or may not have in, say five years, if they get re-elected. (Unlikely)

Gay marriage and more claptrap when we have a meltdown in the economy.

Insulting voters as swivel eyed loons, racists, fruitcakes, clowns and gadflies.

Insulting your own party members as swivel eyed loons.

Promoting only the guys who went to your school and you play tennis with.

The only lunacy I can see is emanating from No10.

Piss of back to Bullingdon you chinless wonder 'Call me Dave'. We wont miss you. It takes some doing to be more hated by your own party than 'grocer' Heath but I think you may well have achieved it.

I'd weep but they would be tears of laughter.

Aww, but I like my toeies, they're the best parts of my footsies.

I look forward to UKIP replacing them completely in the next 10 years. They can become a throwback novelty party (lib dems) for the extreme elderly and historical re-enactors. The liberal-conservative factionalism is dying. I can forsee a UK that is politically dominated by progressive devolution libertarians at UKip and big government, Eurocentric status quo labour. It will take a while to settle in.

Of course you like Ukip, they're the tea party but they actually has a point to them. One point.

don't be so sure ICSD - their current support is purely because of Europe, if the public knew what else they stand for most would back away from them - if we do leave Europe then their support will basically drop off a cliff...

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

don't be so sure ICSD - their current support is purely because of Europe, if the public knew what else they stand for most would back away from them - if we do leave Europe then their support will basically drop off a cliff...

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But until that happens they will likely grow and influence. I can't imagine a world that, over the table and without any shadow maneuvering, gives up the hard fought right to govern itself. This goes as much for sovereign states as it does for sovereign individuals. Those days of rights sacrifice have to be over. Progress in the future is expanding rights and safeguarding them against Statism. This is the radical idea, that individuals have rights and can govern themselves with a minimal State as a servant, rather than as a master.

This is the new idea, this is not a conservative idea. The idea of state as benefactor or moral arbiter is the old idea and must be thrown into the dustbin.

The grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it?

Ukip are Tories.

Watching the tories meltdown over Europe is always entertaining.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Gay marriage and more claptrap when we have a meltdown in the economy.

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Yes, because talking about the economy forever will fix it. Any solution will take years for it to be fully implemented. It is a "make changes, then wait and see" game.
Also, Gay Marriage will boost the economy. Think of all those extra weddings! A new rise in the tailoring industry too to fix suits for women and dresses for men.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Ukip are Tories.

Watching the tories meltdown over Europe is always entertaining.

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You'd think so wouldn't you. However South Shields paints a rather different picture. Since Labour abandoned the working classes it's all up for grabs.

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Yes, because talking about the economy forever will fix it. Any solution will take years for it to be fully implemented.

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Oh yes that's just what we need, more clueless politicos blathering on about how they are going to fix the thing they buggered up in the first place.

Politicians don't fix anything. It's business that will get the economy sorted. You know the guys who actually do something.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

You'd think so wouldn't you. However South Shields paints a rather different picture.

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yeah, it turns out they're even worse than the tories. The conservative party does what it does because they benefit personally from thier policies. Ukip are actually so crazy they have come to actually believe what they do is in the UK' best interests.

personally the funniest thing I find about UKIP is the PR job they have pulled on Nigel Farage

They have successfully made him out as a "man of the people" by sticking him in pubs for all of his interviews etc - what profession do you think he made his fortune in?

Investment Banking - the second most hated profession after career politicians... now that's top spin doctoring :yes:

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

Yes, because talking about the economy forever will fix it. Any solution will take years for it to be fully implemented. It is a "make changes, then wait and see" game.
Also, Gay Marriage will boost the economy. Think of all those extra weddings! A new rise in the tailoring industry too to fix suits for women and dresses for men.

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Not really - there'll be a sudden upswing followed by numbers dropping off a cliff. Gay people are politically more-left leaning than straight people as a group (for historical reasons) so they're less likely to get married to begin with, and they don't have the imperative to marry for the children, or the same need to hook up and get busy to produce said children.

Then there will be the court cases, the accusations of religious people being "homophobes" which will cause them to further withdraw from society, which will hurt charities because religious people give more in time and material to religious charities than secular people give to secular ones.

Then there's the waste of time - which which might profitably have been spent finding the money to pay for more destroyers to be built in Northern Shipyards, or fixing the benefit system so that it works, or practically anything other than the pointless changing of a word of a contract.

So in other words we've wasted our time over something that shouldnt have been an issue.

90% of politics in a nutshell.

The absurdity of it all....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=sFBOQzSk14c

34 years later and you nippers wonder why I'm so cynical....

No we just wonder why you're for the ultra tories.

Who are they and why do you think I am for them?

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

It's business that will get the economy sorted. You know the guys who actually do something.

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The guys who actually do something are mostly on minimum wage. Someone has to earn all the money for the golden parachutes and for the bailouts for those who are "too big for golden parachutes". It's really tough to be at the top.

The solution is Marxism.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

So in other words we've wasted our time over something that shouldnt have been an issue.

90% of politics in a nutshell.

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Yes - but more so in this case.

Political capital has been spent here on all sides and acrimony has been fostered - that will make it harder to do something important - this is the AV referendum all over again.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Who are they and why do you think I am for them?

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Ukip and you keep saying so.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Ukip and you keep saying so.

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You'd better head north east then and tell all those ultra tories in South Shields.

I'd wear a hard hat though if I were you.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

You'd better head north east then and tell all those ultra tories in South Shields.

I'd wear a hard hat though if I were you.

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UKIP have some credence with disaffected working-class voters because they are anti-immigration, and offer a more respectable protest vote than the BNP.

I suspect if these people were actually aware of UKIP's other policies, they would change their tune very quickly. UKIP are going to take away a lot of their income if they are on benefits, as many of them are.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

You'd better head north east then and tell all those ultra tories in South Shields.

I'd wear a hard hat though if I were you.

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Sorry but even a glance at the 2010 and 2013 South Sheilds results shows quite clearly that UKIP's support is basically just disaffected Tories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_S...ons_since_2000

2010 Results - 36,000+ voters, 57% Turnout

Labour - 18,900 votes
Con - 7,800 votes
Lib - 5,100 votes

2013 Results - 27,000+ voters, 39% Turnout

Labour - 12,400 votes
UKIP - 5,900 votes
Con - 2,800 votes

Hmm... conservative vote drops by about 5,000... and UKIP vote goes up by about.. well who'da thunk it - 5,000! Dismal show by the Libs and the generally poor turnout made it a fairly irrelevant by election.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Sorry but even a glance at the 2010 and 2013 South Sheilds results shows quite clearly that UKIP's support is basically just disaffected Tories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_S...ons_since_2000

2010 Results - 36,000+ voters, 57% Turnout

Labour - 18,900 votes
Con - 7,800 votes
Lib - 5,100 votes

2013 Results - 27,000+ voters, 39% Turnout

Labour - 12,400 votes
UKIP - 5,900 votes
Con - 2,800 votes

Hmm... conservative vote drops by about 5,000... and UKIP vote goes up by about.. well who'da thunk it - 5,000! Dismal show by the Libs and the generally poor turnout made it a fairly irrelevant by election.

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Except, if that's true, then UKIP are gaining ground because they managed to get the disaffected Tories out in Force, but Labour couldn't marshal all their voters. That means UKIP is generating a base - and it's unlikely that they're ALL Conservative voters, because that would mean everyone who voted in the General Election for the Cons decided to turn out for a By-Election with an 18% lower turnout.

I don't buy it - a bigger truth is that the Lib-Dems are filthy with government, more so than either of the other parties.

I don't think labour are getting their vote out. By elections usually favour opposition parties. However this was already a safe seat for the main opposition party. I just don't think it tells us anything other than ukip are going to kill the Conservative party, the liberals are in free fall and no one is rushing to vote Labour.

I don't think labour are getting their vote out. By elections usually favour opposition parties. However this was already a safe seat for the main opposition party. I just don't think it tells us anything other than ukip are going to kill the Conservative party, the liberals are in free fall and no one is rushing to vote Labour.
.......................................................

All of which brings me back to who the hell am I supposed to vote for...

Considering the options are:
A condecending cabal of rich kids who've messed up the economy and by doing so have done the exact opposite of the only thing we consider voting them in for,

A bunch of racists, extremists and loons, hidden behind a showman with one, single, solitary but all encompassing point that does nothing but distract from aforementioned racists, extremists and loons.

A bunch of aimless fools lead by an intergity-less idiot

And labour, the tentative lesser of 4 evils who got us all into this mess in the first place... well they have my vote, for how little I value it anymore.

I am more than happy to stick the boot into labour, but the current economic mess is down to the investment banks. Their proxies, the conservatives have done a good job of convincing everyone that it was labour what bankrupted the country (the fact that all the western economies tanked at the exact same time is pure coincidence).

Uh, I wasnt thinking about the economy I was referencing thier jackassery that let the conservatives in.

Particually blair running away from his resposibility and sticking Brown in the PM's seat when he clearly wasnt ready to take on Cameron.

I may well have to vote Labour unless I want to abstain or just not bother at all...

Do not vote to get labour in , vote to get the rest out.

Which is probably what I will end up doing...

I told myself I wouldn't vote for Labour for a good while after the Iraq war, I guess that is pretty much past us now or at least long enough has passed....

It says something where the war makers are the least crap.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Considering the options are:
A condecending cabal of rich kids who've messed up the economy and by doing so have done the exact opposite of the only thing we consider voting them in for,

A bunch of racists, extremists and loons, hidden behind a showman with one, single, solitary but all encompassing point that does nothing but distract from aforementioned racists, extremists and loons.

A bunch of aimless fools lead by an intergity-less idiot

And labour, the tentative lesser of 4 evils who got us all into this mess in the first place... well they have my vote, for how little I value it anymore.

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Before you get too down on the rich kids, think about the fact that they built and maintained the British Empire. You also have to ask carefully whether they're responsible for the economic mess, our Credit rating is Better than France or the US's, we don't have the sort of economic-political paralysis the US does, and our rich aren't moving even more money out of the country like the French.

UKIP aren't Racists and loons, you just made the same mistake as certain Conservatives. Farage believes that the one thing preventing a British recovery is the EU - because it prevents us from making our own decisions - and he's not the only one to believe that.

That's perfectly logical - and he's been bang on about the crisis and 6 months ahead of the curve since the beginning.

The Lib-Dems have spent decades being the "protest" party and they are incapable of being in government.

Labour - need to shed everyone from the Blair era - then I'll look at them.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Before you get too down on the rich kids, think about the fact that they built and maintained the British Empire. You also have to ask carefully whether they're responsible for the economic mess, our Credit rating is Better than France or the US's, we don't have the sort of economic-political paralysis the US does, and our rich aren't moving even more money out of the country like the French.

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Indeed, the rich kids have thier uses, but this crop is failing to earn my tolerance, they arent maintaining an empire any more and I find myself exhasperated when they are almost intentionally ignoring gaping flaws in ther economic strategy, I.E. Osborne's austerity, which seems only be stalling our decline. Add to that the selfish entitlement that most right wing parties seem to have ingrained in thier DNA, I have had quite enough with them.

Quote:

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UKIP aren't Racists and loons, you just made the same mistake as certain Conservatives. Farage believes that the one thing preventing a British recovery is the EU - because it prevents us from making our own decisions - and he's not the only one to believe that. That's perfectly logical - and he's been bang on about the crisis and 6 months ahead of the curve since the beginning.

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...It appears that you seem to be mistaking my comments for a disaproval for their position on the EU. I do not disagree with them on the EU, I think they are racists and loons for everything else they are doing.

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The Lib-Dems have spent decades being the "protest" party and they are incapable of being in government.

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Yup

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Labour - need to shed everyone from the Blair era - then I'll look at them.

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They are the lesser of four evils, way I see it and there aint a better alternative, mores the pity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Before you get too down on the rich kids, think about the fact that they built and maintained the British Empire. You also have to ask carefully whether they're responsible for the economic mess, our Credit rating is Better than France or the US's, we don't have the sort of economic-political paralysis the US does, and our rich aren't moving even more money out of the country like the French.

UKIP aren't Racists and loons, you just made the same mistake as certain Conservatives. Farage believes that the one thing preventing a British recovery is the EU - because it prevents us from making our own decisions - and he's not the only one to believe that.

That's perfectly logical - and he's been bang on about the crisis and 6 months ahead of the curve since the beginning.

The Lib-Dems have spent decades being the "protest" party and they are incapable of being in government.

Labour - need to shed everyone from the Blair era - then I'll look at them.

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I think you will find the empire was built by the poorest, directed by the middle class bureaucracy at the behest and to the benefit of the rich.

Now that is true. Something else we agree on, apart from Tull that is. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Indeed, the rich kids have thier uses, but this crop is failing to earn my tolerance, they arent maintaining an empire any more and I find myself exhasperated when they are almost intentionally ignoring gaping flaws in ther economic strategy, I.E. Osborne's austerity, which seems only be stalling our decline. Add to that the selfish entitlement that most right wing parties seem to have ingrained in thier DNA, I have had quite enough with them.

...It appears that you seem to be mistaking my comments for a disaproval for their position on the EU. I do not disagree with them on the EU, I think they are racists and loons for everything else they are doing.

Yup

They are the lesser of four evils, way I see it and there aint a better alternative, mores the pity.

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From the article that you posted: "Bill Etheridge, the Ukip chairman for Dudley and Halesowen, said an internal investigation had been launched by the party and officials were considering Mr Kitson's membership of the party."The party rules state that extreme views are not compatible so senior level head office members of the party will look at the facts of what has happened here and make their decision."

Resigned over a Facebook cartoon posting.

"They" sound like a bunch of "extreme racists and loons."It's like SturmAbteilung all over again! Protect us oh Labour angels!

What's your position on the Incredible String Band?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Idaho

I think you will find the empire was built by the poorest, directed by the middle class bureaucracy at the behest and to the benefit of the rich.

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Probably more accurate, but management tends to get credit too, and more money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

From the article that you posted: "Bill Etheridge, the Ukip chairman for Dudley and Halesowen, said an internal investigation had been launched by the party and officials were considering Mr Kitson's membership of the party."The party rules state that extreme views are not compatible so senior level head office members of the party will look at the facts of what has happened here and make their decision."


Resigned over a Facebook cartoon posting.
"They" sound like a bunch of "extreme racists and loons."It's like Sturm Abteilung all over again! Protect us oh Labour angels!

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Ooh, you kinda-sorta-not-really refuted one of my links and misconstrued my resignation to the least crap party as affection.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...8OLxyV6tN7-NlQ

Blimey now you're taking me back. Remember Delaney and Bonnie?

And Terry Reid....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7J5xy7Xy2Q

So I don't derail my own thread I'll start a musical history thread in the FR.

I never go into any other org forum!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Indeed, the rich kids have thier uses, but this crop is failing to earn my tolerance, they arent maintaining an empire any more and I find myself exhasperated when they are almost intentionally ignoring gaping flaws in ther economic strategy, I.E. Osborne's austerity, which seems only be stalling our decline. Add to that the selfish entitlement that most right wing parties seem to have ingrained in thier DNA, I have had quite enough with them.

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But everybody loves Borris, think about it.

If Cameron spent less time pretending to be less posh and more time being posh he'd do better.

Osborne is a liability though - he's Cameron's great weakness, really. We it not for Osborne the Tory party would not have vilified Clegg during the AV Referendum, which they would have won anyway, and the Coalition would work much better now.

As it happens, I think there are glimpses of the decent young men that Cameron and Clegg once were, ditto Hague, but with many of the other lot (such as Ed Balls) I see nothing but Naked, vicious, ambition.

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...It appears that you seem to be mistaking my comments for a disaproval for their position on the EU. I do not disagree with them on the EU, I think they are racists and loons for everything else they are doing.

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There's more than one reason to be against Gay Marriage, such as an old-fashioned understanding of sexual politics. Plenty of homosexuals are against it, or have declared it absurd. It would be cruel and unjust to label them as self-hating swivel-eyed loons.

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They are the lesser of four evils, way I see it and there aint a better alternative, mores the pity.

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If Ed Balls was on the back benches and David Millaband was Leader I might agree but currently the party is in the grip of Gordon Brown 2.0 (with more psychopathy) and a man who is willing to knife his own brother, so great is his ambition or his Messiah Complex.

Face it - the Tories are least evil.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

As it happens, I think there are glimpses of the decent young men that Cameron and Clegg once were, ditto Hague, but with many of the other lot (such as Ed Balls) I see nothing but Naked, vicious, ambition.

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And naked, vicious, stupidity. Even boris isn't smart enough to keep his mouth shut when it comes to gross misconceptions of laziness in the lower classes.

Quote:

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There's more than one reason to be against Gay Marriage, such as an old-fashioned understanding of sexual politics. Plenty of homosexuals are against it, or have declared it absurd. It would be cruel and unjust to label them as self-hating swivel-eyed loons.

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...That only adresses one of the points in the links, gay marriage is the least of thier concerns and I havent even gotten into thier unsuitability to run a government.

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If Ed Balls was on the back benches and David Millaband was Leader I might agree but currently the party is in the grip of Gordon Brown 2.0 (with more psychopathy) and a man who is willing to knife his own brother, so great is his ambition or his Messiah Complex.

Face it - the Tories are least evil.

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All are evil, Labour aren't as stupid, just because they are more bumbling than malicious doesn't lessen my predictions of evil Tories will cause. Labour is a semi-competent evil, that is puts them ahead of the rest.

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Labour aren't as stupid,

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They are stupid as stupid can be.

As for the right being selfish. It's called realism.

FFS Evil Tories. Evil Tories.

ROFLOL

About as evil as a feather bed.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

They are stupid as stupid can be.

As for the right being selfish. It's called realism.

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Oh, the urge to go ad hominem overwhelms.

I question your ability to judge the quality of Blue, let alone political competence.