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It's getting a bit much lately, everything seems to be sexual-harassment, all the while women are very aware of their sexuality and are not afraid to use it. I am getting a bit tired, not just of whining women but also of gender-politics and social-justice warriors and nore gender-types than additions in my food.
I am ashamed to say that I was born as a white heterosexual man and always stayed that way. Should I???? What do you want from me ffs.
Should be enough for topic.
Is it the "Me too" campaign, or whats bothering you?
Too much whining in general is bothering me, yeah #metoo me as well. We need a white herero-sexual men's manifest we are under siege by whinersQuote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
It's never too late to try something else. Start with the skin color.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I remember a Fragony who said when people are bullied, they should stand up to the bully to stop him.
These women are doing that and now they're whiners?
Do you believe people whine only when they are bullied?Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Of course they should, it's just going too far. Not just this #metoo nonsense but everything. Everybody wants a slice of the victim-pie. Feminists even get worked up about the colors pink and blue, half the population obvious discriminated even before born. Blacks about black chocolate, what should we call it otherwise. I hear 'white priviliged'everywhere. Fuck off. All they achieve is that people like me who always behaves nicely get annoyed. I am a #meetoo by their standards and I am perfectly harmless. Can I be worked up about something pleaseQuote:
Originally Posted by Husar
What? No...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
A lot of the things you mentioned can easily be ignored by not reading every leftist article about them. I personally don't care what genders people want to have, but I'm not going to memorize every potential spectrum either way. I don't think giving someone you don't know a wrong label is insulting as long as the label isn't used for slander or discrimination. If someone looks male to me but it identifies as a snail, I didn't insult them and it doesn't warrant any reeducation either. It is not directly related to feminism either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
The #metoo thing does appear relevant to me though, even if some of them may interprete handshakes as sexual harassment. I doubt the ones overdoing it are many, their number is probably exaggerated by male whiners who want to continue groping women (not you, in general). People loke Roosh V are whiners, but I mostly ignore them, too. The thing with women is that not all of them want the same things, just like not all men are sexual predators (want the same things). None of it justifies jerking off while blocking the door...
Well that's kinda it no? You don't care about all that, neither do I. But more and more I'm told I must, and I really don't like to be told what to do. For me they go too far, it starts to upset me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
So who is telling you that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Oh common, these feminists/gender/sjw types are getting increasingly annoying and pushy, impossible to miss it, it's ,ike being in a South-Park episode. I bet there is oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Husar
I have some very leftist friends on Facebook, some of whom post a whole lot of things, but rarely, if ever, anything about gender blending or whatever it's called. Perhaps it is more common if you hang out with artists a lot, I remember at some art event a girl was shouting "I have no gender!" while playing weird games with what seemed to be her boyfriend. Perhaps I hang out with more conservative people than you do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Why shouldn't they be pushy if people like you are so quick to call them whiners? In your time here, most of what you have posted has been in defense of your personal comfort in not having to consider how a given issue affects people and the world - not just sexism and racism, but EU politics and climate change as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Your attitude most generally seems to be, 'If it's bad, it's better not to talk about it; if it's really bad, it must be fake or a conspiracy against my way of life.'
For once, let's try to get to the bottom of your value-set here.
What do you want from yourself to begin with? Try laying it out.Quote:
What do you want from me ffs.
It's very simple what I want, not having to defend myself just because I couldn't care less
If you feel like you behave appropriately in life and have nothing to defend yourself from - then don't defend yourself? Have you considered that maybe you already agree with many of the feminist ideas?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
If this is so and you have nothing that needs changing, then public discourse on the matter should hearten you; at least, it shouldn't discourage you.
If you have specific misgivings or disagreements, then you can either just not talk about it - or you can complain about and try to change it. As long as you are already complaining here, then it doesn't cost you to go into more detail...
Of course I already agree with feminsts idea's why wouldn't I? Hence the too in too far. 'I couldn't care less is' not enough anymore, everything needs to be gender-neutral by the new wave. I wasn't kidding earlier, they really get upset at the colors blue and pink at birthdays or gender-reveal party's, that's just one example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Simply put, feminism used to be about equality, now about neutrality
What do you mean by "gender-neutral"? Is it using certain language, wearing certain clothes, or something else? Why does it bother you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
In your example of color association, is it that someone was surprised or upset at the gendered use of color at some party, or is it that people are pointing out that there's no real reason to associate a color with a gender, and that doing so is part of a framework that can be limiting to children in how they act and are expected to act, as well as how they look? If the former, why is that important to you? Is it someone you know personally? If the latter, do you disagree that the specific blue-pink color associations are relatively-new and arbitrary?
How do you distinguish between "equality" and "neutrality" in your usage?
Color pink/blue was just an example out of many, a very real one. Neutrality is not accepting that male and females are different I guess, it's not about equality then anymore but about special treatment and pretending. That's too much to ask. You don't have to look at it like that, but I do
edit, that #metoo didn't trigger me but overall whiningness that's too close for comfort, just read up on some opinion-articles, isn't #metoo all about how females 'felt' when interacting with males? Well I have feelings too, and you are not allowed to disagree with me because of that.
Couldn't you say that giving girls pink stuff and boys blue stuff is a form of special treatment already?
Why would it be wrong to change that?
This actually bothered me before when I wanted to buy chocolate with yogurt and strawberry flavor because I really like that. It usually seems to be wrapped in pink and marketed like an item for women, so I felt a bit weird and wondered whether people would think of me as effeminate (not a real man/not worthy or whatever) in the supermarket. Of course I bought it anyway, but it seems like a good example of how these traditional things can actually bother me more than if we did what some liberals want and just discarded these notions of "how boys/girls are supposed to behave".
Or we can argue about whether or not I'm "less of a man" (see how this already applies some arbitrary standard of what makes a "real man" that all men supposedly need to adhere to in order to not be something "lesser"?) because I happen to like yogurt and strawberry flavor. :rolleyes:
Sorry I just hermetically closed myself I just feel that way
Are you discussing gender-neutral in how language is biased against women and the movement to make it gender-neutral as not to imply a preference? This would be changing statements from "A man's personal right to freedom of expression shall not to be infringed upon" to "A person's personal right to freedom of expression shall not be infringed upon" then there are words such as man-kind, his-story, etc.
Then there are things like the 'worst insult' apparently refers to a woman's vagina. As a heterosexual male, do you dislike a women's vaginas that you use the c-word to insult other people? You really have to question what those people are actually saying sometimes.
Actually fragony I feel that femenism has lost a lot of it's bite over the last few years, in the anglosphere at least.
It seems to me the extreme variants of identity politics are prone to self discrediting themselves the longer they operate; I point to the failure of DNC chair candidate Sally "Shut up white people" Brown, the reaction to the firing of Google Engineer James Damore, and the decline of marvel comics as examples of the trend of public revulsion towards such ideological extremism.
Personally what really relieves my worries about such ways of thinking is the ever growing list of Soc-Jus advocates who 3 years ago were pinned their flag to the anti-gamer mast and today are known for having self-destructed in rather spectacular fasion. Leland Yee being a particularly cathartic example.
Isn't mankind just short for humankind and isn't history spelled with just one s and how exactly do they perpetuate anything? Maybe it's because I'm an ESL fool and the German words for them seem neutral, but to me they are descriptive terms and that's it. I did think about mankind before though, but I'm not sure how using these terms is supposed to be bad for women.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
The insults seem to be more clear, yes, but they're not just a gender issue since disability and some other things are also used for insults.
No, history is not derived from his-story, it's just a coincidence of language latched on to by those who want to be seen as cleverer than they actually are, language tricks are a common substitute for profundity in feminist philosophy.
Correct form would be that backwards Indo-European languages are biased against women. Some other more developed languages have no such bias:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Attachment 19983
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Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And what is even scarier "woman" comes from "man with a womb". English is so sexist. I advise abandoning it altogether. After all the Brits could Brexit, why others can't do the same about their language?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Oh really? German nouns and adjectives have gender. That is enough to call it gender biased.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
All of this was trolling in case someone may get insulted.
In the USA, we punted English quite a while back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Have you ever sexually assaulted or harassed a female? Have you ever witnessed it and done nothing? No to both? Fine, all good. This campaign isn't directed at you. It's about a large number of men who do those things, as evidenced by countless examples from females across cultures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Could have, bit too young for me
Is it related to the [REDACTED] incident?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
nah
But not the language, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
I have a feeling that some campaigners join in for PR or some other reasons not directly connected to the ostensible aim. I mean how could you have been nonchalant and unperturbed and SILENT for dozens of years and then abruptly you claim to have been suffering most horribly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Fear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Fear of people who will start victim blaming and not believing them if they end up being the only ones, etc.
Fear of being alone in the spotlight as "the victim", becoming controversial, ruining other aspects of one's life and so on and on.
I often wonder whether I should tell others about the time I got robbed. On the one hand it's an interesting story, on the other hand it may skew their view of me towards "victim, weak" and so on and I may not want that. Being a victim can be like a disability, it may not be your own fault, but you may suffer in even more unrelated situations anyway. Certain people here also tend to use "Opfer" (victim in German) as an insult. Comes from Middle Easterners as far as I can tell, but Germans use it as well now.
I do believe that things ought to be discussed, not swept under the rug, but I just don't see how anyone can maintain that there is institutionalized discrimination of white males in the western world.
It's just mind-boggling. Take any parameter you want, white males are always on top.
Certainly there are cases of discrimination against white males, but they are very rare, in contrast with discrimination of women or males of other skin colour.
I don't believe influential women have this fear. Oprah has been talking of her experience for years. The actresses involved in the Weinsten scandal couldn't have been that scared for that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
No, it is not mind-boggling that resident populations of well-developed countries fare better off in their home countries than immigrant populations from poorly developed countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Que?Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
It is an open secret and known by everyone and nothing was ever done about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
https://www.nytimes.com/video/movies...unch-line.html
Why not? You lack the experience to understand, don't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
I wouldn't lecture you on how you must really have felt when you visited America - that's your own story. People who visit America don't have a single universal experience.
I think what Fragony is trying to say is that he thinks it's really horrible what happened to that Weinstein character. He seems like a really friendly guy and all those sluts got what was coming to them. /src
I just ask if I am unsure, and go from there. I won't go beyond that, since it is an entirely different topic, but I felt the need to recommend this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
What does it have to do with sexual harrassment?Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
And that can't backfire heavily when someone thinks they're obviously this or that and then you ask them how they identify?Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossLOPER
I'm pretty sure there are bullying tactics based on that, which basically attempt to attack someone's self-worth. So I can see how that can be misconstrued easily. :shrug:
It only means your argument about these women is disrespectful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
You cannot expect them to react like you think you would because you're not them.
The thing is that if you had made the same experiences, you wouldn't be you either, and might act more like them. Therefore judging their experiences using yours as a basis is nonsensical and one could say you're not taking them seriously as persons.
Monty said that if he declared that your experiences in the US made no sense because they didn't reflect his own experiences and declared you a liar based on this, he'd be doing the same thing to you. He's trying to transform the issue to a topic you might be more involved with in order to make his point clearer.
It has to do with anything in life. Harassment, losing a parent, playing the new popular game, hearing a song, cooking a meal, living through a popular revolt and national crisis...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Don't try to pre-define what other people go through on idle speculation.
From my experience with transpeople, it's generally not hard to make inferences and read social cues. I can't predict how every individual will react but you are usually given the benefit of the doubt if you show that you are trying to understand and respect this person. You can easily use common sense and just avoid the subject entirely if there is no need for you to delve into it, but don't overthink it. It is immensely helpful if you show that you are, at the very least, taking this person seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
If you are talking about otherkin, however, you're on your own. That is an entirely different subset.
I am going to throw it out there in the topic about trans.
Why do you need to ask, or even care?
If you really think about it, do you need to know what the other persons genitals are?
It is kind of creepy in a way. Why do you really need to know if they go a penis or a vagina? Over 99% of communication does not require you to know unless you are some kind of gender-gestapo.
Most communication is aided by knowing how the interlocutor wants to be addressed. You don't need to ask about their genitals to ask how they want to be addressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Ehm, yes, I don't need to care or ask, that's why I also don't need to know anything about gender fluidity or the 50 different types of gender identity or whatever. Wasn't that my original point? :sweatdrop:
You can address them in a gender neutral manner. Common in English is the singular "they" or even using their name. If you think about it, there is very little for when it is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
I don't agree with they on this?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
How about just use "him" or "her" because people identify in one way or another more closely to a specific gender. Just ask them and be done with it, nobody cares what you consider yourself as, just be a nice person overall.
Or use gender neutral instead then no need to ever switch and it says the defaulting of the other as a male which was very common in academia and law. Imagine you are reading something which applies to you and it was saying "woman" all the time, it would come across as rather jarring, then having women argue "well, it means both genders." - this is what they put up with, in the inherent bias.Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
Pronouns, I'm looking for pronouns. As others said, you can default to they, which is what I usually do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
I'll just stick with "you", thank them very much. :dizzy2: :sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
I mean, eh, forget it, I was originally talking about lists like this: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...acebook-users/
Why anyone would be insulted if I don't know how they identify on such a list was my original question if I recall correctly. I'm getting confused by them/that/this/it/us/you?!?!? now. :sweatdrop:
I mean I wanted to tell Fragony that it's probably not worth getting bothered by it just because someone thinks that's what the options should be. And no, I usually don't ask anyone what they would pick from that list, what weirdo came up with that idea again? Wasn't me! :creep: :sweatdrop:
The signature blocs of many of the faculty and staff at my school state the preferred pronoun choice of that person. Simple courtesy suggests you should -- barring some label or form of address clearly used solely to be flippant -- address and refer to that person in the manner that person requests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Just one example out of many, many examples become a trend. I cannot ignore it unless I stop reading newspapers, magazines, stop watching tv, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Latest one, in England this time, sorry my person can't come to the party, my person is pregnant. 'What is it?', it's a ehhhhh person
Totally necesary as the pregnant woman could be a transgender
Can we talk about sexual-marxism yet? Touchy I know
You still watch TV? ~:eek:
Haven't for ten years or so but I do get the tasty bitsQuote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Then I can only assume you go to right wing blogs and/like geenstijl and they bombard you with leftist propaganda for you to hate and then you blame the leftists for being pushy because the right wingers show their ideas to you every day. Does that come close?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
They do that yeah the really obvious and juicy parts at least, but no you don't come close, there are these places called other people's homes and they watch these discussion programs a lot, if you ever come there the guy ready to explode is me handle with careQuote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Some women (like Oprah) openly admit what happened to them. Others choose to wait for an indefinite time and then start voicing their indignation and other negative emotions. I totally support the first option and I hold the second one under suspicion since I don't believe emotions could linger that long, that is why the latter option seems insincere to me. It sounds more like a desire to join the trend - ice bucket challenge or "who was filthier harrassed" challenge, in this case. I wouldn't much sympathize with a person who having had indigestion after a meal in a restaurant remembers it 10 years later and starts denouncing its staff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
The question is why does it bother you if they're only pushing in other people's homes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Is it what they're pushing for and how would that bother you?
And just because you read sites that collect these things from all over the place, doesn't mean other people watch all of it, too.
Cause-starved activists with greasy fingers bother me, this latest hype is articially created and carefully nourished
If you're referring to this story, the UK government denies that it requested the use of "pregnant person" by the UN. This isn't a UK issue as such, but a stance that some medical organizations in multiple countries have adopted in the past few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
You should realize that trans issues are much more controversial among feminists than you let on. It's not new; this has been discussed since at least the 1990s. But in my opinion the simplest compromise is "pregnant women and others"; "expectant mother" is also worth retaining since it actually bypasses the concern of gender-prescription here.
Whatever you personally think, it shouldn't be surprising that the issue would have to come up in the conversation about how to integrate "trans" into society. If you refuse to stop and think, you will constantly be shocked by everything you come across. And that's a personal problem, not anybody else's.Quote:
Inclusion has become the ultimate liberal fetish. Unfortunately, the uncritical expansion of categories to protect feelings is less inclusion than dilution. “All Lives Matter” is, after all, a demand for inclusion, specifically the inclusion of white trauma into the narrative of black resistance. The classic line used by men’s rights activists – “Sometimes men get beat up by women too!” – is a demand that efforts against domestic violence be “inclusive” as well. But none of these discussions are improved in the least solely by making language less precise.
Here's the thing: none of these ideas or debates come out of nowhere. Here, the general impetus is the question, 'How do we accommodate trans people in society?" That question will have a lot of threads, because society is a big thing. If you can at least contextualize the questions behind your various outrages, they might at least not get you helplessly worked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
In English you say "my spouse", "my partner", or "my SO (significant other)."Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Mind you, USAnians around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Them be readin't as My SO significant other
As for the topic at large, I wouldn't at all be against feminism if it actually taught the feminine side the real virtues, as in, use your nose to breath - silly.
["women are dumb"]
Too general a claim. In my experience it is rather the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlRex
There was this one too:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/21/strang...sault-7016288/
Unfortunately, where there is power, there are people who take advantage of their position to abuse others. Even the current USA President with Pussy-gate.
I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
We need a White Male Liberation Front!
Hanoi Jane and renowned hater of men Gloria Steinem speak out:
http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/jan...ms-1202600709/
Keeping in touch with decades of speaking out "too soon", they're probably right...again
That must be why there wasnt this much fuss those times those child actors started complaining about paedophiles in hollywood.Quote:
Actress Jane Fonda and activist Gloria Steinem stopped by MSNBC’s “All In With Chris Hayes” Wednesday night to discuss the Harvey Weinstein scandal, where Fonda pointed out that part of the reason Weinstein’s accusers are getting so much attention is because they’re “famous and white” — with the exception of Lupita Nyong’o.
“It feels like something has shifted,” Fonda told Hayes. “It’s too bad that it’s probably because so many of the women that were assaulted by Harvey Weinstein are famous and white and everybody knows them. This has been going on a long time to black women and other women of color and it doesn’t get out quite the same.”
Macaulay Culkin, Elijah Wood, Corey Feldman, Corey Haim, Joey Coleman, Mara Wilson, Samantha Geimer, Jessica Biel, Michael Egan, Evan Henzi, Alison Arngrim, Dylan Farrow and Mia Farrow, yeah, they didnt get this attention because they werent famous or white!
Fonda deserves the bile our moderaters fear.
Here in France the hashtag "metoo" was quite roughly translated "balancetonporc". We don't like understatements. It was brewing for months anyway.
The dictionnaries told me: "rat on your pig" or "chuck out your pig". Roughly, so to say. Always nice to learn some new english words.
Beeing France, no need to say that it's almost a bloodbath. Pity beeing that I still know quite a lot of ladies who would never chuck out their pig(s), and the pigs still roam unchecked.
Having been a trade union representative for years, I heard a basketfull of confessions from disoriented women with their lives made awfull by male superiors. I came to hate the way women so easily talk to me and beg me to shut the hell up, also.
One year ago I got a new errrh... captain, 24 years young and attractive cuttie, fresh out of school. I told her a few names: the radioactive ones. Men she should never trust because I know very well they are very very talented snakes. And that she shall tell her two 24 years, etc etc classmates on other teams to do so. Have I been right doing that?
Frag, I don't think feminism is out of control when a proven feminist as I am still hesitates.
Debates on grammar and spelling are minor nuisance. Drunk students overacting gender annihilation are just drunk students. Smokescreens, nothing to write home about for an heterosexual white european male.
Yeah you have been right doing that, predators do exist.
As for not worrying, I am not worried I am annoyed. Ironically it are fake-feminists and SJW-types who like to see society devided and they are too self-rightious to see the hypocracy. Everything is too male, everything is too white. I wouldn't want to live in their utopia, they see sexism and facism/racism everywhere but don'tvrecognise it when looking in the mirror.
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Originally Posted by KarlRex
Now is it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
*purrs like a kitten*
Well then, I have a week off...
Can you then, throughout history, explain how any sane individual would put mere women (as a group) side to side to our outstanding men?
["women are dumb"]
In all honesty, Cleopatra is one of very few women who actually accomplished things, and let's remember she made it by being all "Lova ya long time". She also killed herself.
owwwww don't do that, I can say no other thing other than saying that there is nothjng wrong with the intelligence of women and that they are indeed hold back by society as real! feminists claim
I haven't said there's anything wrong with female intelligence..Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
My point is that there is no RIGHT-with it, that men can't do better, and already have since history started.
Us white men have tried to really listen to the female perspective lately.
Result: Women didn't have much to say ["women are dumb"]
fair enough
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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
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Originally Posted by Fragony
It's absolutely not fair.
As a side-toss the European white women gave the white men an absolute load of Africans and Islamic people to deal with.
Not just bad gene-stock, bad religion with it.
"Fair enough" - for what, so absolutely WHAT - would that be a redeemed factor?
For us having their say of the matter as the first actual men of the world?
No such thing as 'us' Kads