The Scourge of Ephesus [Concluded]

**Reenk Roink** · 01-12-2009, 07:13

Originally Posted by 187Beefyz

Following four are the murder victims

777Ares777 (Shot to death)
TheFlax (Shot to death)
White_Eyes :D (Shot to death)
Reenk Roink (Killed by a knife)

Ok, so it seems I was killed by a knife whereas every other kill has occurred with a gun.

Keep in mind that YLC sent me this OM which I revealed earlier:

Originally Posted by YLC

If you want Tevash lynched, I suggest you give me a good damn reason why I should not just change my vote and HAVE you lynched? The round is nearing an end, and I can decide this whole thing I want, during the day OR night if I want.

At first I didn't really believe him, and thought he was bluffing, but the different style of kill with the issue of the Mafia actually wanting to kill me lends credence to a theory of me being murdered by YLC.

A good fallback plan is for you go ahead and lynch him tonight if your other leads do not show up. Perhaps give him a chance to explain. Maybe he is a poorly guided vigilante who could still serve some use to the town.

**ULC** · 01-12-2009, 07:18

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Ok, so it seems I was killed by a knife whereas every other kill has occurred with a gun.

At first I didn't really believe him, and thought he was bluffing, but the different style of kill with the issue of the Mafia actually wanting to kill me lends credence to a theory of me being murdered by YLC.

A good fallback plan is for you go ahead and lynch him tonight if your other leads do not show up. Perhaps give him a chance to explain. Maybe he is a poorly guided vigilante who could still serve some use to the town.

I am guided by my own conscience, and I do what I think is best, nothing more. Maybe, if you had tried to explain things in a more concise way, certain actions need not have been taken. Whether you were pro-town or not does not matter, your Loki behavior only made you as good as a mafioso.

Also, it is "lynch him today", lynches do not take place during the night

**Beefy187** · 01-12-2009, 07:25

YLC seems to be on the towns side. At worst SK. Probably a Vigilante
I'm not going to vote for YLC this phase

**Jolt** · 01-12-2009, 11:29

Originally Posted by 187Beefyz

- Reenk was voted by Jolt & El Diablo on first day. The two didn't vote him on the second.

On my defence, I'm never on weekends, Thus why I didn't vote for lynch. Also, it basically practically proves I'm not from the Mafia (Since most Mafia guys decided to kill this night).

Anyways, can we lynch the athletic guy? He gets on my nerves. >_>

EDIT: As further proof, if you check the MTW Game, I also didn't participate there. :P

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 11:35

Ok I finally made it here to vote. I was not here all during the night phase, there may have been fewer kills because of that. And this is a very good thing.

Look, guys, I know either you will lynch me, or mafia will kill me when you don't. I'm as good as toast so I won't bother defending myself. What I am asking is that you let me live, long enough to prove that it isn't me that's killing at night. My predictable attendance on the internet absolutely confirms that I cannot kill at night, which means that mafia will be FORCED to kill me. I think this is a good thing, as I'll be one of the few confirmed innocents.

The mafia may choose to keep me alive, as well, sort of insinuating that I'm guilty of something. But it won't be a convincing ploy if the kill rate goes up. In order to imply I am guilty, they must refrain from killing at their full potential, which is also good for town. The sooner they kill me, the better.

So, they will leave a confirmed innocent person alive, or kill me. In any case, you don't have to lynch me, and they will waste a turn killing me.

It's also possible I have a role besides one of the two mafia (I don't), so they have additional reasons to kill me, as do you. I suggest humbly that you employ the strategy of forcing them to kill me, simply to use me as a human shield. I am grateful to die for town.

If they leave me alive, you can choose to investigate me randomly, which again forces them to kill me.

If I am missing something from this proposed strategy, feel free to tell me. And if you really feel like defending me, go ahead, you may stop another kill. But I also know this entire post, and my behavior thusfar, can and will be interpreted by you as a WIFOM strategy to live. I promise you, I will die before the end of the game, and I can basically guarantee that I won't be here at night, thus making me murder bait.

**CountArach** · 01-12-2009, 12:36

Sorry people, but this has been an absolutely hectic week at work (We are getting an evaluation by the regional second in command on Saturday, hence I am busy helping to clean the store) and I've had other social things going on at the same time. I haven't had a chance to keep up with the game - though I will as soon as I get a chance.

As such Vote: Abstain

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 12:46

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

We're awash in clues...we shall need to begin removing the dross.

Stories make me sleepy.

Suggestions:

1 of you dig into the statue, any connection to tourists or other history references to think on.

1 of you run through the killings and assess knife/gun etc. methodology (#killers, MO's, vigilantes?) etc.

1 of you cobble up the lists of those voting for murder victims

1 of you think about the grave/burial/corpse desecration references a bit and collect the info on that

Whether I live or die, I will do my best on all of these. This is where I am actually useful to you guys.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 12:52

Originally Posted by Jolt

On my defence, I'm never on weekends, Thus why I didn't vote for lynch. Also, it basically practically proves I'm not from the Mafia (Since most Mafia guys decided to kill this night).

Anyways, can we lynch the athletic guy? He gets on my nerves. >_>

EDIT: As further proof, if you check the MTW Game, I also didn't participate there. :P

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...96#post2099096 (1/4)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...77#post2098677 (1/3)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...75#post2094075 (12/28)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...86#post2093686 (12/27)

Explain how I've just proven you were online, not only online, but posting in this forum, on both days of two consecutive weekends.

Why, if you are a townie, would you post such a blatant lie?

**FactionHeir** · 01-12-2009, 13:08

Sorry for not contributing much, caught a nasty cold.
For the time being: vote:abstain until I find time to read the thread.

**TinCow** · 01-12-2009, 13:12

Originally Posted by 187Beefyz

-Rythmic, ATPG and Lord winter has not voted in two rounds. Which suggest that ATPG is away. iirc Lord Winter is less active when he has a townie role. But its dangerous to assume so until he is wogged. Rythmic... I don't know where he is off to.

Lord Winter is not mafia. He was away for all of last week. While he was away, there was a triple night kill. This almost certainly accounts for all starting mafia roles. While he could be recruitable or otherwise scumtastic in some other fashion, it would be a waste of time to focus on him now.

Originally Posted by 187Beefyz

-Night 3 had 3 players killed. iirc night 2 had none.. Mafia recruited a few on night 2 perhaps.

Unlikely. In the first game they first had to investigate to find the person, then they had to recruit them. This takes time and it assumes that the mafia were spot in in their first night investigation. This is not probable. It is far more likely that the mafia families chose to kill at their full strength for the first time. In the first game, there were 3 starting mafioso, 2 in one family, and 1 in another. These three kills would account for them.

Originally Posted by 187Beefyz

-As Night 1 victim, Ares was killed with a gun, original mafia seems to have silencer pistols. Knife killer could be either new comers or vigilante.

Or the 1 man mafia family.

Originally Posted by 187Beefyz

Argh. Not much clues yet

That's fine, there's not usually that much by this point. My advice: start hounding the veteran players who are lurking. GH, Seamus, Sigurd, Rythmic, seireikhaan, and FactionHeir should all be much more active than this. Start moving to lynch them to get them to speak up in their own defense. The game will be better off with them vocal, regardless of whether they are mafia or town.

**Ibn-Khaldun** · 01-12-2009, 14:54

Taking the list that TinCow proposed..

My advice: start hounding the veteran players who are lurking. GH, Seamus, Sigurd, Rythmic, seireikhaan, and FactionHeir

.. I Vote: seireikhaan

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 14:57

Vote: Rythmic

Until I can come up with someone better. He does lurk when he's mafia. Not sure about his townie credentials but I don't particularly agree with a lurking townie approach. Allows the lurker mafia to blend in.

I still want an explain from Jolt regarding previous post I made.

**boudica** · 01-12-2009, 15:11

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Sorry for not contributing much, caught a nasty cold.
For the time being: vote:abstain until I find time to read the thread.

Being online is about the only thing I CAN do when I have a nasty cold (maybe man-flu IS different after all

) So I'll take the ghost of TinCows' advice and "vote-a-vet" in order to bring them out of lurkdom.

Vote: Factionheir (until he has contributed further about who I should vote for instead)

**TinCow** · 01-12-2009, 15:25

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Vote: Rythmic

Until I can come up with someone better. He does lurk when he's mafia. Not sure about his townie credentials but I don't particularly agree with a lurking townie approach. Allows the lurker mafia to blend in.

In previous games I have played in, Rythmic has been an extremely useful townie. He and Seamus have consistently provided some of the best analysis of the evidence. I don't know what he is usually like, since I've still only played a handful of games with him, but in my experience Rythmic is very useful when he is active.

That said, some of the people I listed above could be silent simply because they haven't been on the forums. I am staying away from checking profiles because Mods have the ability to see extra info in profiles that is unfair to know for mafia games (such as seeing people who are invisible). However, the same is not true for most of you. If someone could report back on the last date of activity for all living players in this game, it would be very useful. If a profile says nothing, it's because the person is marked down as invisible.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 15:28

Rythmic is an excellent player. That's why his inactivity/lurkishness is a slap in the face of townies like me.

A bit over the top? Tone it down, pizza lord. Right, right.

Still anxiously awaiting Jolt's response... because I'm bursting in my pants to see the explanation

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 15:34

User Name / Number Posts
Askthepizzaguy 39
YLC 34
777Ares777 32
TinCow 31
Reenk Roink 29
Andres 16
Yoyoma1910 14
GeneralHankerchief 13
CountArach 13
187Beefyz 12
White_eyes:D 12
shlin28 10
Quintus.JC 10
TevashSzat 9
Ibn-Khaldun 8
El Diablo 7
boudica 7
glyphz 6
Jolt 6
Caius 5
Tiberius of the Drake 5
seireikhaan 4
Sigurd 4
Seamus Fermanagh 4
FactionHeir 3
TheFlax 3
Lord Winter 2
Chaotix27 2
woad&fangs 2
Ignoramus 2
Rythmic 1

Lurker report. Activity report not done yet. If we start accusing those at the bottom, eventually the mafia scum will float to the top of our little pond. In the meantime, we can analyze the posting patterns, behavior, and activity of the people at the top of the list.

At least, that's what I will be doing after I sign off today. Firefox will save this thread for me to analyze over the next 2 days.

We can still spook the lurker mafia into posting.

---------------------------------

Killed (4) :

777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink

Lynched (2) :

TinCow
Tevashzat

Dead peoples.

Activity report:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

And one special one for General Hankerchief, as I must now accuse him.
GeneralHankerchief
Last Activity: Today 09:46
Voted TinCow as a "precautionary tactic." Why, because TinCow is veteran enough to smell your scum? I also have done some research into your mafia tell behavior, and my spidey senses are tingling a little.
Refers to in-character or out-of-character based on previous games. According to my more in-depth research on mafioso behavior, this is actually more often than not, a SCUM TELL. Mafia are interested in establishing themselves based on their previous behavior and want to frame the arguments of the discussion around that, because they have a prepared response to possible attacks on their character.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=147

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

All right, let me do my discourse on your posting behavior and then I'll head over to Golden Rule to discuss what's going on there... and then I'll take some pills and do something mindless for the next three hours or so. I may have to drop out of this game; I can't really handle this multi-thread thing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Naturally, I'm quite familiar with your behavior in my games, and Midgard. I did a quick read-through of Prometheus too. I can't really remember Interficio TBH, but I do recall that you were quite fond of that game.

Now, you've named three distinct posting styles, however, there are similarities in terms of substance as opposed to actual "theme" of those styles. Your "hard-nosed townie" style is a "I'm going to attack those whom I deem most leading the town astray". In Mafia VI I distinctly recall lengthy posts against Sasaki to this effect. In Golden Rule I am substitute for Sasaki.

Now, Prometheus and Mafia V, you were the villain in both of them, continuing to make lengthy posts throughout the game, especially after you made your "roll the dice" move in both. In Midgard (and so far, this one), your modus seems to be "screw it, let's see how much fun I can have", making both lengthy, and frequent posts.

You break up your posting behaviors by role: townie, ambiguous higher power, and villain, respectively. However, the one thing they all have in common is post length and frequency. Up until a couple of hours ago in ATPG's game, you had neither.

Right here a big long analysis (my files show this to be a scummy thing to do... when one is a bolder mafia player, as GH probably is)

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=209

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Oh come on, you yourself have said that the first round is nothing but randomness and chaos. I was thinking about taking my vote off of you but not after this statement.

I was thinking that you weren't acting scummy, but not after this statement.

Hurts, doesn't it?

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=266

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Right now this is Loki II. Luckily, it seems like people are being offed at a slow rate, so I say we lynch Reenk, lynch Tevash, and then put Reenk on ignore. It'll cost us time, but I think we can spare it and it'll help us in the long run when we're not distracted.

Interesting you are so sure, at such an early juncture, about our path forward and who we should lynch.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=271

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

1) He said/she said.

2) Or, you could have realized your error and been more clear to avoid this mess in the first place.

3) Actually, it's been a common practice since the early days, especially when there's so much ambiguity involved. I especially subscribe to it, since if there's one thing you should know about me, I always hedge my bets (except in the most drastic of circumstances). Sure, I might not win as much outright, but over time I win more because my losses are minimized.

Argumentative. Point by point responses. Would it surprise you to know Sasaki exhibits such behavior as mafia? Most veteran players that I know do, and I've analyzed their behavior.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=273

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Really, there's not much to it. You mention we have no idea what your bests interests are. I agree. But if it's not fully in line with the town's, then why shouldn't you be lynched?

-edit- dear god, I'm turning into PK.

Turning into PK? PrivateerKev was mafia in the last game, as I recall.

At such an early juncture, it's easy to ask someone "why shouldn't you be lynched?"... it could be townie behavior, but maybe you simply wanted to know what his hidden role was. He obviously had one. He smells like a townie, too, in retrospect.
Why were you so interested in his death? Maybe you knew he wasn't one of your own... one less round to worry about surviving in.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=325

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Vote: Abstain

School started up again. As such, my time diminishes. Will look at things tomorrow.

GH abstains. You know, he abstains when he's mafia too. And why would you abstain past the first round or so? Nice excuse for not being here. (Hey, maybe it's real, I don't know, and I'm the last person who can safely accuse you... but still. I have to.)

You may not have time, legitimately. But when I add it up to all the other things you're doing which smell stinky to me based on my new method of analyzing behavior, you come up reeking. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but you already have made my spidey senses go through the roof. I am very close to asking town to lynch you along with me.

I will back off from this accusation for now, until I clear my head. It's possible I've smelled a false lead, and my bloodthirsty senses have gone haywire for no reason. When I come back, I will re-examine the evidence with a more objective viewpoint.

In the meantime, I am voting you.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 17:00

Unvote: Rythmic I have bigger leads right now.
Vote: GeneralHankerchief. If I am wrong, I hope you will understand. See above post.

Edit: He was active today, and no posts here so far.

By the way, I understand I meet many of the criteria I am accusing GH of. I really, really don't care.

**Ibn-Khaldun** · 01-12-2009, 17:14

Originally Posted by ATPG in his post somewhere

Ibn-Khaldun
Mmm... just the right amount of short posts and random votes to appear to be a townie. Such a low-key presence. No one even notices him, I suspect. He's also going along with the lynch-the-lurking-veterans plan unquestioningly. Still... there's nothing there that's concrete. Nothing there to clear him. I can't even ask him to post more. I would ask that he talk more when he does post. I want to know what's going on inside that brain of yours... the more you talk, the more we hear the way you think. If it doesn't add up, then we can prosecute you. This style of play makes it difficult to do that.

Tourist am I. Speak not your tongue. Talking.. hurts..... my........ brain.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 17:15

Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

Tourist am I. Speak not your tongue. Talking.. hurts..... my........ brain.

Fine, fine fine. I was looking for mafia behavior... you seemed almost strangely devoid of it.

I'm actually more interested now in your opinion of GH. Is it just me?

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 17:19

Continuing with my activity report and analysis:

The work is never done until the game is over.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

And then there's me. I have over 40 posts here, I've been active at night several times, I am posting "way too much" in most of your minds to be a townie, and I probably reek to many of you. Good. Mafia might actually keep me alive as a suspect then. But seriously, my activity or lack thereof at night from now on will get me killed, I promise, or you can lynch or vigilante me.

**Ibn-Khaldun** · 01-12-2009, 17:19

Actually I planned to vote against him. He was the first one in TinCow's list and because he is a veteran mafia player then he could be one of the killers.

**TinCow** · 01-12-2009, 17:25

Interesting post, ATPG, thanks for making it. I'll hold off on any general reply until a few of those fingered have a chance to respond.

One note though is that I don't think it's good to hold the use of invisibility mode against someone. All mafia players are encouraged to use invisibility specifically to keep a bit more ambiguity in the game. Those who ignore this are certainly free to have their activity info milked for all it is worth, but those who do use it should not have it held against them. It's in the best interests of the game as a whole for everyone to be invisible and many people (myself included) use it even when they are townies.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 17:25

@ Ibn

Ah but being a veteran isnt enough. I could almost be considered a veteran now. TinCow is one. Many people here are... it's more of his veteran behavior which I would suggest fits the profile of a scum role.

@ TinCow

Don't worry, it's not really an indicator... it's more of a statement that we cannot actually confirm their innocence by tracking activity.

Though I should note, email makes it possible to never visit this site, and still get kills in. So objectively, invisible mode is not a way of proving anything, nor is lack of activity.

@ Sigurd
Waiting for more from Sigurd too. I know you're here!

:stalker:

Come on down... you know you want to.

___________________

Ok, I made it easier on you guys and added the quotes I was referring to in my GH accusation above.

**Yoyoma1910** · 01-12-2009, 17:48

Ooo, pizza, I didn't know I was coming across as feminine to ya'.

I like playing characters, even when I'm only given a fragment to work on. It's the reason I'm here.
___________________________________________________________________________

I'm also waiting for someone to tell me what they want to know about this statue.

I could write a book on it, there so much info.

Vote:Jolt

For teying to use his non participation in the MTW2 game as evidence of non mafia status.

**Sigurd** · 01-12-2009, 17:49

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

@ Sigurd
Waiting for more from Sigurd too. I know you're here!

:stalker:

Come on down... you know you want to.

Yeah I am definitely here... while working mind you (need to read most of the posts in here, which might be beneficial later in the game).

Your case against the General seems to be spot on. I am eager to hear his reply. I have also noticed that he no longer complains about not being picked as mafioso like he did in Midgard II. I am thinking that he finally received one in one of the games he plays.
He did say in the other game (Golden rule) that he will take a look at Ephesus later today. He usually throws a romp if we group our votes against him and if he is mafia.

It is however a bit early in the game IMO for any lengthy analysis.
Personally I would vote off YLC for even implying to have the life of RR in his hands. But let's try yours and TinCow's theory first. GH it is.

vote:GeneralHankiechief

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 17:49

I think Jolt is a fine choice. He triggered a "WTF?" reaction from me too.

I'd like to hear his defense first, especially about his "never" being on on weekends.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 17:54

My top suspects

1. GeneralHankerchief (several reasons...)
2. 187Beefyz (explanation in my analysis. Your random votes for me were not random, IMHO)
3. Jolt (I'm giving you time to explain your gaffe)

**shlin28** · 01-12-2009, 18:02

ATPG has convinced me, plus I'm busy ATM.

Vote: GH

**FactionHeir** · 01-12-2009, 18:14

Bandwagoning GH would be too easy. I'd rather wait to hear from him first before voting.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 01-12-2009, 18:17

I too think we should hear from him before blindly lynching. In the meantime, we should discuss other picks and other options.

Let's not get complacent.

Thread: The Scourge of Ephesus [Concluded]

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