Late Term Abortion

[Samurai Waki]

I dont see how the mothers prusuit of happnies trumps the babies life. An infant is just as depandant on its mother as a fetous and when people kill infants there is an outrage. Saying it should be legal becuase others will get hurt isnt a valid arguement. They will only get hurt if they choose to break a law and they will only be put in that postion by a personal choice they made.

During the first Trimester, a fetus is just a clump of cells, ergo the fact that it has no rights as a human being. But, hey, if you want to go make an amendment be my guest, just don't get pissy when it turns out much like the 18th amendment, it gets overturned in a couple of years and we're all worse off for it. But, hey I don't like Alcohol that much anyways, do you think I should go throw every person who drinks in the poky? or fine them heavily?

Or Beef. A cow has the right to live! No Beef, or cowboy hats for you. And I don't like Texas much as a state, we should turn texas into about ten smaller states, and give at least one of them to Mexico...

[ajaxfetish]

Re: Adrian

I know you aren't inline with Xiahou or Crazed Rabbit on gun rights, and I'm not sure where you stand on home defense in general, so this analogy may not be meaningful to you. If not, I apologize for my poor attempt.

A person has the right to defend their home from invasion. If an armed intruder comes into their house and threatens their person, family, or property, they have the right to attack and possibly kill the intruder. It is not the same if the intruder has been invited in. I cannot invite a neighbor I dislike to my home, then kill him, and claim I am innocent because he had invaded my home. It's flawed to say a woman has the complete right to abortion simply because the fetus is invading her person. She has in most cases invited it in by voluntarily engaging in sex. Involuntary impregnation is of course another matter.

The analogy breaks down somewhat, since the homeowner can demand the guest leave, and if the guest refuses to leave they become an invader and the rules of the game shift. The fetus does not have the ability to voluntarily leave the womb if the mother demands it goes.

Overall, the issue comes back to the same place it always does. When does a fetus become a human--or in legal terms, when does it become a person--with rights of its own. As Viking points out, the cells involved have always been alive, since prior to fertilization on. If all living human cells have a right to life, masturbation is mass murder. Life is not the issue: humanity/personhood is. The traditional lines in the sand (conception and birth) are both very unconvincing to me, and any line between those is, as Viking has said, arbitrary. For legal purposes, it must be drawn, just as an arbitrary line between child and adult (for purposes such as voting rights, substance use rights, driving privileges, sexual consent, method of trial, etc.) has been drawn (or rather, several have been drawn depending on the issue). I don't know where the best place to draw that line is. The beginning of the third trimester seems a reasonable place, and it sounds like most of the western world has chosen something along those lines. America is still struggling with the issue.

Ajax

[Craterus]

Why does being human give you a right to life anyway?

[CountArach]

Why does being human give you a right to life anyway?

Well the Declaration of Human Rights does specifically state the right to life.

[woad&fangs]

What's the Declaration of Human Rights? I've never heard of it before.

[LittleGrizzly]

Isn't it something to do with the UN charter...

[CountArach]

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[Craterus]

Well, I'm glad the wise men of the UN figured that all out for us. Phew.

[Samurai Waki]

Well, I'm glad the wise men of the UN figured that all out for us. Phew.

But the wording is largely taken from the US Declaration of Independence. The UN Charter only adds you know... some minor tweeks, like rights of Children, Amnesty, and so forth... that most countries outside of Europe haven't adopted.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Well, I'm glad the wise men of the UN figured that all out for us. Phew.

Do you think humans should not have the right to life?

[rory_20_uk]

Do you think humans should not have the right to life?

No, it is a privilege that can be lost.

[Craterus]

Do you think humans should not have the right to life?

Why should we/they? I don't have a coherent answer, just thought I'd take the thread in a different direction.

It doesn't really follow that simply being born grants you such rights.

And it is also only humans that are granted a right to life, why only our species and no others?

[Strike For The South]

During the first Trimester, a fetus is just a clump of cells, ergo the fact that it has no rights as a human being. But, hey, if you want to go make an amendment be my guest, just don't get pissy when it turns out much like the 18th amendment, it gets overturned in a couple of years and we're all worse off for it. But, hey I don't like Alcohol that much anyways, do you think I should go throw every person who drinks in the poky? or fine them heavily?

Or Beef. A cow has the right to live! No Beef, or cowboy hats for you. And I don't like Texas much as a state, we should turn texas into about ten smaller states, and give at least one of them to Mexico...

Abortion shoudnt be legal in a perfect wrold yes But not now. I am deeply saddened by this fact but when there is no decency left in the wrold I guess thats how it is Equating humans with cows has no plaice in this disscusion. Human life is worth much more you know this and your Texas refrence is made merley to get a rise out of me nice try.