New factions?

[Tellos Athenaios]

jolt, great picks. i'm pushing hard for massilia and meroe myself, and I can guarantee that *Random German Tribe,* aka the "Rigotes" is already in.

No, that's not fair. Everyone knows you are an ardent supporter of the 'Roman Rebels'.

[Ibrahim]

No, that's not fair. Everyone knows you are an ardent supporter of the 'Roman Rebels'.

you lie!!
just kidding.
anyways, I think a second arabian faction is nice-Saba is kinda boring at the begining really(only eleutheroi). and it isn't right that they always end up with the peninsula in their hands
I doubt its coming, but I just figured...

[Abou!]

who already suggest Mauretania or middle Europe celt?[Alpine right]

[Jolt]

10. Kingdom of Sparta; The existing "Koinon Hellenion" faction needs to be dismantled; the poleis of Sparta and Athens were allies in 272 BC, but this was not typical. Instead, have a seperate Kingdom of Sparta and another Greek faction - maybe Aetolian League, Rhodos or even the Kingdom of Bosporos.

The reason why Koinon Hellenon unfortunately exists is because of the limit of Faction Slots. The only way I'd still Koinon Hellenon broken up and split into numerous factions would be when they faction slots exceeded somewhere around this number.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I am sorry, but in truth; for the Spartans to become a faction the faction limit would have to be roughly equal to aleph-nought; and the province limit needs to be about c.

[Subotan]

Personally? Oh goody, someone cares about my opinion! ^^
Goidils/Caledryns
Celtiberians
Bosporan Kingdom
Something around Pannonia, it's a bit empty
Some other German tribe
Numidians
Nubians
Pergamon
Some Cisalpine Gauls

Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.

Oooh! Extra factions! If I was to include some others, kinda of half rebels/half real factions that couldn't be played, but were significant enough to trade/ally with I'd include
Syracuse
Aitolia
Some Indian city states. Maybe. (Please don't shout! I don't know anything about Early Indian History!)
Skythia
Massalia
Bithinya
Qataban
An emergent Yuezhi faction (Depending on circumstancecs)
An emergent Han Chinese faction (Again, depending on circumstances)
Galatians
Maccabeans
(These last two could emerge as rebel factions, like the Ostrogoths)

[Aodhan]

I believe that another German Tribe would be great, I mean watching them waste each other with fire hardened wooden sticks at the beginning of the game is just hilarious, but I'm not sure where to put them, I mean its just so cramped in Germany. But I suppose you could put a Belagic faction in the game, that would stop the German blitz west, but I am afraid that that could cause an overcrowding issue in west Germany/ North East Gaul. However the Arevaci could be useful to threaten the Lusotannan movement east, and the Arevaci could follow the time honored Celtic tradition, of mettling in other Celt's affairs, or in this case Gaul’s' affairs.

[Jolt]

Probably, non-playable factions might be evolution of playable AI factions (The turning from Bactria/Greco-Bactria Kingdom into the Indo-Greek kingdom, as someone already said it would be on) Another example would be the turning of Parthia/Pontus/Armenia into the Persian faction, the replacement of AI nomad factions if they conquered sedentary territories and turned sedentary themselves. Well, now that I think of it, it would be a hell good way of taking playable Casse away from the British Isles and instead of turning Britain into Eleutheroi Mountain Island, it could fill it with some non-playable factions. Another good way to implement Non-playable factions would be to make them available if they rebelled in territories which are originally under Faction control in the beginning of the game (For example, Babylonia). Those would be nice of taking advantage of Non-playable factions, though I don't know what's the hard-coded limit for implementing those factions in several different ways.

EDIT: Yet another way would be to create Factions for the migrating peoples into the EB map (Such as the Yue Zhi)

[Aodhan]

Probably, non-playable factions might be evolution of playable AI factions (The turning from Bactria/Greco-Bactria Kingdom into the Indo-Greek kingdom, as someone already said it would be on) Another example would be the turning of Parthia/Pontus/Armenia into the Persian faction, the replacement of AI nomad factions if they conquered sedentary territories and turned sedentary themselves. Well, now that I think of it, it would be a hell good way of taking playable Casse away from the British Isles and instead of turning Britain into Eleutheroi Mountain Island, it could fill it with some non-playable factions. Another good way to implement Non-playable factions would be to make them available if they rebelled in territories which are originally under Faction control in the beginning of the game (For example, Babylonia). Those would be nice of taking advantage of Non-playable factions, though I don't know what's the hard-coded limit for implementing those factions in several different ways.

EDIT: Yet another way would be to create Factions for the migrating peoples into the EB map (Such as the Yue Zhi)

Your idea is interesting but, this mod is about realism so if you were to combine factions like Parthia, Pontus, Armenia into a Persian Empire, you would sacrifice realism, However another way you could fix these issues like the Casse, would be to provide the AI with massive amounts of early game financial aid and make their AI more aggressive, and expand into available space sooner. Another issue that I can see is that if you added non-playable, non-rebel factions to Britain or other places, you could potentially create a situation in which the AI players in Britain could reach an unbreakable stalemate, and the human player would simply come and use a simple divide and conquer strategy. Now your idea of non-playable AIs would work if the Total War AI was twice as intelligent.

[The General]

Your idea is interesting but, this mod is about realism so if you were to combine factions like Parthia, Pontus, Armenia into a Persian Empire, you would sacrifice realism

I don't think he meant that Pahlava, Pontos and Hayasdan should be merged into a 'Persian Empire'.

Or, at least, I hope he didn't.

[Aodhan]

I think you're right "The General," Jolt may not have meant turning the Pahlava, Pontos and Hayasdan into a Persian Empire. I guess moving your family 600 miles away and trying to carefully manage fiscal matters is a real stressor. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Jolt]

I think you're right "The General," Jolt may not have meant turning the Pahlava, Pontos and Hayasdan into a Persian Empire. I guess moving your family 600 miles away and trying to carefully manage fiscal matters is a real stressor. Thank you for pointing that out.

Right. I meant that if the AI controlled Parthia/Armenia/Pontus, got to conquer most of the Persian Empire, some kind of reform would pop up where the said faction who conquered most of the Persian Territory disapeared, and was replaced with the "Persia" Faction, with new units, buildings, etc. Like the Parthian reforms we have around EB 1.

In Brittain, as far as my knowledge about the Total War games goes, I never saw a stalemate happening. Normally one faction conquers the other, or several factions gang up on a single one and eventually destroy it.

[Foot]

As one of the main objectives of EB is to educate the populace, there will be no unplayable factions. Ever.

Foot

[Aodhan]

Right. I meant that if the AI controlled Parthia/Armenia/Pontus, got to conquer most of the Persian Empire, some kind of reform would pop up where the said faction who conquered most of the Persian Territory disapeared, and was replaced with the "Persia" Faction, with new units, buildings, etc. Like the Parthian reforms we have around EB 1.

In Brittain, as far as my knowledge about the Total War games goes, I never saw a stalemate happening. Normally one faction conquers the other, or several factions gang up on a single one and eventually destroy it.

I understood what you were saying about the Pahlava, Pontos and Hayasdan the second time I read it, I get that. But I have seen stalemates though, the Averni and Aeudi never seem to conquer each other, so I fear that multiple factions in Britain could cause a situation similar to the one in Gaul, except worse because there are no external factions around in the early game to draw their attention away from each other, so they would constantly hammer away at each other until they ran out of people to put in the units. Although historically tribal warfare was in a way never ending tribes usually did not aim for battles of total annihilation, and in the Total War system there is no other kind of battle.

[The General]

As one of the main objectives of EB is to educate the populace, there will be no unplayable factions. Ever.

Foot

Understandable, yet also, 'tis a shame.

It would've been awfully neat to represent factions too insignificant to allow Player control the known universe with it, but still significant enough to have deserved a state of minifactionhood (raping the English language, yes, I know...) to represent that they were organized or dangerous enough in their time to cause trouble for the larger factions. I mean, they could've done with only a handful units (perhaps only those locally available), so thorough research would'ven't been necessary.

That said, as I said, it's still perfectly understandable why they won't be included. (Although, I must say, not being able to play a faction wouldn't prevent me from wanting to read more about them - rather, not being able to play them would mean reading about them would be the only means of gaining more knowledge about them.)

Oh well.

[Cartaphilus]

I agree with that. I'll have no problem at all if there are some unplayable factions that add more accuracy and give more balance to the game.

[Foot]

Alright, so where the hell does this information come from

Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.

I cannot find any reference to it anywhere other than the post above. Anyone know?

Foot

[Jolt]

Alright, so where the hell does this information come from


I cannot find any reference to it anywhere other than the post above. Anyone know?

Foot

Nope. But that'd be awesome, for the reasons I've said.

[Foot]

Nope. But that'd be awesome, for the reasons I've said.

Yes, well as far as I can tell its complete bull.

Foot

[chairman]

Foot, I've heard that info in at least 3 other places on these fora. Don't remember who said it or when or where, but at least one of the people was to be trusted (EB member or CA rep or Forum smart guy or something). Hope that helps (probably won't). It could be bull, but I know I've heard other people say the same thing, so sucks for them if it is.

Chairman

[SFS2006]

52 factions are possible. 26 are playable and the rest are minifactions. One mod tried to use this idea, MTR.
Look at the faction list of MTR: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=93379

In post 62 of the faction list discussion someone explains how this is possible
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=92340&page=4

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

Nah...

52 factions sure sound tempting, but they will just be annoying if you can't play them.
And also, there can only be so many units. It's better to have 30 really detailed and playable factions, than 50 uninspired ones controlled by the AI.
(Not that the EB team would ever do anything uninspired )

[Teleklos Archelaou]

You could only have 52 factions *one at a time*. That means 26 factions, but really kill one of them so you have 25, *then* depending upon what faction you play as, one additional nonplayable faction is created to fill that 26th spot. That means in any given game there can still be only 26 factions, but a lot of other work would have to be done just so that in one game you get one new faction. If there were really 52 factions on the board at all times, I have a feeling we would definitely be filling them in with real groups, even if some are very sketchy. But as for the "anti-faction" method, well, we won't be doing that.

[AlexanderSextus]

greek colonies (syracuse, massalia, emporion, arse)

[Strategos Alexandros]

AFAIK Emporion and Arse would be part of a Massalian faction if there was one so I suppose it could be a contender.

[russia almighty]

The 52 factions thing can be done in BI.


RTR is doing it.


Before you call the lynch squad, isn't the base for M2TW RTW-BI?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The key to the whole thing is that you cannot have 52 factions at the same time.

[Krusader]

AFAIK Emporion and Arse would be part of a Massalian faction if there was one so I suppose it could be a contender.

Nope

[Strategos Alexandros]

I thought they were its' colonies?

[Ludens]

The 52 factions thing can be done in BI.

RTR is doing it.

Before you call the lynch squad, isn't the base for M2TW RTW-BI?

Nope, they've got 20 factions. It's just that one of these factions differs depending on what faction the player chooses to play with. It adds up to 36 potential factions, IIRC.

The M2:TW engine is indeed based on a modified version of the R:TW engine.

I thought they were its' colonies?

As I recall it, Emporion was indeed a colony of Massalia, but this does not imply that they formed a single entity. IIRC when Massalia went to war with Carthage, Emporion remained neutral. This does not suggest a strong bond.