Few question from MTW fan ...

[Jxrc]

Hello,

A few question from another old MTW fan ...

Shelved the game after a few game when I first got it (AI was terrible in version 1.0) but I have to admit that the game is ok after patch 1.5.

My questions would be:

- is there a possibility to see a faction reappear after it has been wiped out (in the event a rebellion takes place for instance) ?
- is there some kind of problem that prevent legionary cohorts from charging ? Each time I try to have those guy close in ASAP, they just keep moving slowly forward behind their huge shields ... Had no problem with Hastati, Principes or early legionary cohorts ....
- is it possible for the captain that wins a battle fought on the battlemap to become the "man of the hour"? Tried to get one by getting a few heroic victories with a captain with no result at all but the few time I have auto-calc a battle agaisnt a tiny rebel force I got the "man of the hour" message ...
- is the a maximum of times you can try to bribe the same stack ? After a few failed attempts, when my diplomat start the talks the "bribe" option does no longer appear ...
- can a faction go into civil war if it loses too many battles or cities (just like in MTW) ?
- is it correct that the temple of the city where a new famility member shows up appear has an impact on his stats and traits ? (seems to me I got better command ratings for family members appearing in city with Jupiter temples while those born in cities with Ceres, Juno or Aprhodite temples are more keen to be "fruitful" etc)

Thanks for the hints.
Best regards

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi Jxrc,

My questions would be:

- is there a possibility to see a faction reappear after it has been wiped out (in the event a rebellion takes place for instance) ?

Sorry, but this was removed in R:TW. It's a shame really - although the M:TW system wasn't perfect, the factions came back a little too strongly for my liking, it was a very interesting feature.

- is there some kind of problem that prevent legionary cohorts from charging ? Each time I try to have those guy close in ASAP, they just keep moving slowly forward behind their huge shields ... Had no problem with Hastati, Principes or early legionary cohorts ....

I've never had a problem with them before. All units do need to be a certain distance from their enemies to be able to charge though, which could be causing the problem.

- is it possible for the captain that wins a battle fought on the battlemap to become the "man of the hour"? Tried to get one by getting a few heroic victories with a captain with no result at all but the few time I have auto-calc a battle agaisnt a tiny rebel force I got the "man of the hour" message ...

Man of the Hours usually only occur when there is a low general : province ratio to boost up the number of family members. The same applies to adoptions as well which also are much more common under these circumstances. I think any type of victory is satifactory to gain the event, but I'm not totally sure.

- is the a maximum of times you can try to bribe the same stack ? After a few failed attempts, when my diplomat start the talks the "bribe" option does no longer appear ...

I think that might be a bug of sorts - I've noticed it occasionally happen too without a decent explaination.

- can a faction go into civil war if it loses too many battles or cities (just like in MTW) ?

Sorry, but not in R:TW. This was another feature that was sadly removed between M:TW and R:TW. It was most certainly one of my most favourite part of the game and really added to that feel of immersion. A function mildly comparable to the old M:TW style civil war exists in Barbarian Invasion however, although it only applies to certain factions (only the Romans) and is less wide-spread. Esentially, it's just a fancy settlement revolt which any generals currently stationed in that settlement can join if their loyalty levels are low enough.

- is it correct that the temple of the city where a new famility member shows up appear has an impact on his stats and traits ? (seems to me I got better command ratings for family members appearing in city with Jupiter temples while those born in cities with Ceres, Juno or Aprhodite temples are more keen to be "fruitful" etc)

Yep it's correct, although it's not attributed to where the general first appears, but to where they spend their turns after they appear. Each temple provides it's generals with a specific ancillary providing benefits which fit the description of the God. There also is an increased chance of the general gaining similar traits which correspond to the god's personality (e.g, a general living in a city of Baccus will have a higher chance of ending up as a drunkard).

Hope this is helpful

[Jxrc]

I've never had a problem with them before. All units do need to be a certain distance from their enemies to be able to charge though, which could be causing the problem.

Could be the reason cause I only used those guys in siege battle so far.

Man of the Hours usually only occur when there is a low general : province ratio to boost up the number of family members. The same applies to adoptions as well which also are much more common under these circumstances. I think any type of victory is satifactory to gain the event, but I'm not totally sure.

I had a hunch that the adoption/man of the hour had some kind of balancing effect but here what puzzles me is that I had a guy winning three victories in a row against Pontus (first two were heroic and the first one I still wonder how I ended up winning) without becoming part of the family while jsut after a guy dealing with 240 rebel peasant got his entrance ticket right away... Bit unfair and I kept that in the back of my mind and notice that I never received the man of the hour announcement after a battle fought on the battlemap. Has anyone ever received one?

Hope this is helpful

This is indeed. Many thanks

[Quirinus]

I had a hunch that the adoption/man of the hour had some kind of balancing effect but here what puzzles me is that I had a guy winning three victories in a row against Pontus (first two were heroic and the first one I still wonder how I ended up winning) without becoming part of the family while jsut after a guy dealing with 240 rebel peasant got his entrance ticket right away... Bit unfair and I kept that in the back of my mind and notice that I never received the man of the hour announcement after a battle fought on the battlemap. Has anyone ever received one?

I do recall that happening quite a while back when my lone unit of round-shield cavalry got ambushed by some brigands, I won a very narrow victory with only something like seven men left (out of 55). When I re-entered the campaign map there was this 'Man of the Hour' message for me. I remember being quite bemused by it, as I had suddenly gone from a single-digit number of tier-one cavalry to having a full unit of heavy cavalry and a three-star commander out of nowhere.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Originally posted by Jxrc
I had a hunch that the adoption/man of the hour had some kind of balancing effect but here what puzzles me is that I had a guy winning three victories in a row against Pontus (first two were heroic and the first one I still wonder how I ended up winning) without becoming part of the family while jsut after a guy dealing with 240 rebel peasant got his entrance ticket right away...

I think it's only based upon the events of a single battle more than anything. If the family is short, there's a certain chance that the captain will be promoted regardless of what kind of victory he's won. Occasionally certain generals miss out due to the random system not favouring them.

Bit unfair and I kept that in the back of my mind and notice that I never received the man of the hour announcement after a battle fought on the battlemap. Has anyone ever received one?

I've had quite a few appear after the battlemap when I've been low on family members. Since I rarley autoresolve, that's where I've found most of my new adoptees.

[Jxrc]

[/I]I've had quite a few appear after the battlemap when I've been low on family members. Since I rarley autoresolve, that's where I've found most of my new adoptees.

Ok. Good to know it was just that I exceeded the number of familiy members the AI though necessary or that I was just unlucky.

That pretty much answers all my questions so far.

Many thanks for your help

Will try to play some more this week-end and might have some more question next week. Not to likely since I try not to read too much about "normal" game mechanics since the best part is when you face new problem and manage to solve those by yourself (after a few mishap of course) ... Just like when I discovered that those Pontus chariots could kill more of their own army than my own troops if handled correctly (loved it when those idiots killed their own general after running wild ...)

[Jxrc]

GAve up my campaign as the Brutii cause I was really fed up with rebels appearing every turn ...

Changed the spaming rate to 100 instead of 10, but that does not appear to affect ongoing campaign ... :((

Now playing as the Scipii for a different experience (yes one day I will unlock those other factions) ...

Got rid of Carthage and Numidia and now onw Sicily, Western North Africa and a large piece of Spain (expect one last province owned by the Spanish and Numacia owned by the Brittons ...), Crete and Rhodes (too tempting to resist since both islands were rebel-onwed). Julii have made no significant progress (they've juste taken Marseille) ... Brutii got Greece but are now moving northward .... Greeks, Macedonian, Seleucid, Gauls, Daces, Cathaginian and Numidian are history ... Got a 10 star faction leader (was a "military genius" and after a few battles became "superior commander" and "strong in defence") all would be nice if he had not caught the plague ... Building baths and hoping for the best ...

Few additional questions:

- how does the reinforcement system works ? It's seems there is no way to replace archers or artillery that have run out of arrows and that if more than a full stack takes part in the battle, the additional troops will be managed by the IA .... So how does it work if I need large number of artillery pieces to break down city walls ?

- at what ages does a princess no longer available for a wedding/breeding. Some princesses who are about 25 seem to attract very little interest (I turned down quite a few useless candidates). Likewise a few of my family members have just married princesses well into their 30s' ... Have they any chance to get an heir or is there some kind of time limit for that ?

- how do you know what is the max farm upgrade you can build in a city in order to avoird excessive population ? I undertand that the one that takes four turn to build is normally the limit but there seems to be some difference between province regarding "natural" farming output so that max farm upgrade might have some benefit in rather arid provinces (for instance Sahara)

- do rebels have a negative effect even if I cannot see those ? In some large provinces (Sahara again) I sometimes discover rebels roaming aimlessly around the desert ... Do I need to build watchtower every here and there and hunt them down or can I just let them live ?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[El Diablo]

Changed the spaming rate to 100 instead of 10, but that does not appear to affect ongoing campaign ... :((

Yeah the spawing rates is part of the program that is read only at the START of a campaign. Thus it will not change any of the games you have already started.

- how does the reinforcement system works ? It's seems there is no way to replace archers or artillery that have run out of arrows and that if more than a full stack takes part in the battle, the additional troops will be managed by the IA .... So how does it work if I need large number of artillery pieces to break down city walls ?

Usually you just take in two or three units of artillery and you can ner rely on the AI to give you any more. Similarly when archers run out of arrows they become pretty expensive and poor light infantry. The best way to get into cities is through sap points rams and towers.

It does mean that you need to get the composition of your army right.

- at what ages does a princess no longer available for a wedding/breeding. Some princesses who are about 25 seem to attract very little interest (I turned down quite a few useless candidates). Likewise a few of my family members have just married princesses well into their 30s' ... Have they any chance to get an heir or is there some kind of time limit for that ?

I dont think there are princess's as in MTW it is more female family members. The game will give you offers of adoption and "man of the hour" evenets if your family member:settlements ratio gets to low. The only way to lose a game from loss of FM's is if your very poor at looking after them, or if you have them all in one stack that gets slaughtered (or on a boat that gets sunk).

- how do you know what is the max farm upgrade you can build in a city in order to avoird excessive population ? I undertand that the one that takes four turn to build is normally the limit but there seems to be some difference between province regarding "natural" farming output so that max farm upgrade might have some benefit in rather arid provinces (for instance Sahara)

This is a tricky one and many people disagree on it (and there has been some quite heated "discussion" her about it). Generally I (note thats me and I am no genius on this game) treat farms as mines - i.e. a source of income. The growth bonus is good if the towns population growth is below 3% at the lower tiers of the town and 2% at city level.

- do rebels have a negative effect even if I cannot see those ? In some large provinces (Sahara again) I sometimes discover rebels roaming aimlessly around the desert ... Do I need to build watchtower every here and there and hunt them down or can I just let them live?

Yes - if they are on your roads they are stopping trade and also causing "devastation" on your farming land. This shows up as blackened "burnt" lookin raes on the map. I highly recommend watch towers if for nothing else they make good early warning systems.

Hope this was of help - but Omanes will be along soon with some better answers.

ED

[Jxrc]

Yeah the spawing rates is part of the program that is read only at the START of a campaign. Thus it will not change any of the games you have already started.

Too bad. Is there a point selecting a higher number than 100 (between 101 and 999 ?). Not that I am not hapy as it is but it seems to me that reducing the number of rebels helps the AI more than the player fro whom rebels are more a nuisance (and a bore) than an actual problem

Usually you just take in two or three units of artillery and you can ner rely on the AI to give you any more. Similarly when archers run out of arrows they become pretty expensive and poor light infantry. The best way to get into cities is through sap points rams and towers.

Ok thus is basically one stack against one stack. Fair enough. Some loved huge battles in MTW (Golden horde and the like) but those were a bit too time consuming for my liking anyway.

I dont think there are princess's as in MTW it is more female family members.

Correct indeed as far as Roman are concerned (at least until you've won the game).

The only way to lose a game from loss of FM's is if your very poor at looking after them, or if you have them all in one stack that gets slaughtered (or on a boat that gets sunk).

If one does such thing he's pretty much asking for trouble and deserves whatever he get

This is a tricky one and many people disagree on it (and there has been some quite heated "discussion" her about it). Generally I (note thats me and I am no genius on this game) treat farms as mines - i.e. a source of income. The growth bonus is good if the towns population growth is below 3% at the lower tiers of the town and 2% at city level.

Seems a reasonable rule of thumb to me but there seems to be some cities that are doomed to get out of control. Took Carthage, killed everyone, taxes very high, no agricultural improvement beyond level 2 (the one that takes three turns to build) and still I got a 6.5% increase .... Now I am building peasants each turn to send them to other cities lost in the deserts but it's no longer enough to compensate the population growth ...

Yes - if they are on your roads they are stopping trade and also causing "devastation" on your farming land. This shows up as blackened "burnt" lookin raes on the map. I highly recommend watch towers if for nothing else they make good early warning systems.

Did that just to spend my cash in excess of 50K (weird thing is that I lost two generals while doing so as a result of earthquakes ...) The bore is that if rebels appears in the middle of the desert without being close to any road it takes ages to get to them. IS there a way to now if they are devastating something with any value (farmland and the like) ? If they just burn the desert to the ground, well ... be my guest ...

Hope this was of help - but Omanes will be along soon with some better answers.

Was indeed pretty helpful. Many thanks

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Just one thing about the "man of the hour" event that I noticed ...
When your captain dies in a battle then on the campaign map you will get another captain with the "man of the hour" event ..
So far it has always happened to me .. captain gets killed in action and another one will get the "moth" event ..
This could be wrong tough.. So don't quote me on that ..

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

That's correct. If a general or captain dies, traits or rewards that would be earned on the battle field automatically go to the general/captain who takes charge after him. It's a strange bug, but sort of partially realistic.

[Quirinus]

Did that just to spend my cash in excess of 50K (weird thing is that I lost two generals while doing so as a result of earthquakes ...) The bore is that if rebels appears in the middle of the desert without being close to any road it takes ages to get to them. IS there a way to now if they are devastating something with any value (farmland and the like) ? If they just burn the desert to the ground, well ... be my guest ...

I think devastation shows in the settlement details scroll, so if you see the devastation symbol in the expenses row, a rebel army must be wrecking havoc somewhere. I usually use a spy/diplomat combo to scout them out and bribe them away instead of going to the hassle of assembling a decent-like army and sending them out there.

Not sure if devastation happens in the desert though.

[Jxrc]

I have two additional questions.

Phalanxs. I've played as the Roman for the most part and I sucked big time using the odd mercenary hoplite, the only units against which they seem quite good to me were chariot. Otherwise even if I manage to get the phalanx tidy and all, it gets very quickly disorganised and those silly hoplites start using their swords with no great effect. Even when an heavy cavalry unit charge it head on, it does not get impaled on the spears but somehow manages to disturb the phalanx and turn it into mincemeat .... I have tried to find the answer on the forum but could not find an answer that was reliable enough ... Tried to start a Greek campaign to test things out but except when I faced infantry only I run into trouble each time because it was way too easy to flank me. Could someone point me in the right direction ?

Games slow down eacg time I have played the game for a few hours. That's someting which I undertsood was to be remedied by patch 1.5. but I still get the same trouble each time I play a bit too long ... Any way to solve that ?

Thanks again.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Phalanxs. I've played as the Roman for the most part and I sucked big time using the odd mercenary hoplite, the only units against which they seem quite good to me were chariot. Otherwise even if I manage to get the phalanx tidy and all, it gets very quickly disorganised and those silly hoplites start using their swords with no great effect. Even when an heavy cavalry unit charge it head on, it does not get impaled on the spears but somehow manages to disturb the phalanx and turn it into mincemeat .... I have tried to find the answer on the forum but could not find an answer that was reliable enough ... Tried to start a Greek campaign to test things out but except when I faced infantry only I run into trouble each time because it was way too easy to flank me. Could someone point me in the right direction ?

Phalanx mobility in the game is terrible, so it is often best to focus on keeping all phalanxes marching in a totally straight line with avoidance of moving corners of any shape or form. If you keep them regimented, simply using them as a wall that just walks up to the enemy, you can't really go wrong. They work best in defence rather than the attack which is why, even if you are on the offensive, its best to force the enemy to attack you than you to have to engage with them - just stand close and wait for them charge onto the pikes. If that doesn't work, move the line closer so their spears will touch the enemy - never ever order them to actually attack - that's where their weakness is and when their lines start to bend and become disordered.

Games slow down eacg time I have played the game for a few hours. That's someting which I undertsood was to be remedied by patch 1.5. but I still get the same trouble each time I play a bit too long ... Any way to solve that ?

The memory leak never really was ever fixed - the problem was very slightly improved, but not by a very significant amount. Beyond installing extra RAM to cope with the game's hunger for memory, there isn't really much you can do. You could also try disabling RAM hogging services as described here, but the positive effect felt here often isn't very large. Sorry

Hope this is useful

[Jxrc]

Phalanx mobility in the game is terrible, so it is often best to focus on keeping all phalanxes marching in a totally straight line with avoidance of moving corners of any shape or form. If you keep them regimented, simply using them as a wall that just walks up to the enemy, you can't really go wrong. They work best in defence rather than the attack which is why, even if you are on the offensive, its best to force the enemy to attack you than you to have to engage with them - just stand close and wait for them charge onto the pikes. If that doesn't work, move the line closer so their spears will touch the enemy - never ever order them to actually attack - that's where their weakness is and when their lines start to bend and become disordered.

If I understand correctly, I basically should let the enemy charge or have the phalanx bump into the enemy ? Seems tricky stuff but I'll give it a try.

The memory leak never really was ever fixed - the problem was very slightly improved, but not by a very significant amount. Beyond installing extra RAM to cope with the game's hunger for memory, there isn't really much you can do. You could also try disabling RAM hogging services as described here, but the positive effect felt here often isn't very large. Sorry

Is there an amount of RAM that is sufficient to satisfy the game's appetite or will "eat" whatever amount of RAM I will "feed" him ? I've got to restart the computer after 4 hours of play so it's not that bad anyway

Hope this is useful

Sounds promising. Many thanks indeed

[Quirinus]

If I understand correctly, I basically should let the enemy charge or have the phalanx bump into the enemy ? Seems tricky stuff but I'll give it a try.

Yep, pretty much. IMO it's not too difficult once you've gotten it. As a rule of thumb the less you move a phalanx the better, especially when using the Macedonian/Seleucid phalanx. Just move them close to the enemy to intice them to attack, then if they don't just sorta inch forward little by little until either they do, or you 'bump' into them.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Is there an amount of RAM that is sufficient to satisfy the game's appetite or will "eat" whatever amount of RAM I will "feed" him ? I've got to restart the computer after 4 hours of play so it's not that bad anyway

I'm not too certain, but I think that the amount of RAM the game can chew up is only limited to the size of the RAM itself. More of it/preventing other programs from taking it just allows you to play longer without noticing the slowdown problems.

[Jxrc]

Another small question ....

When playing as another faction as the Romans, squalor seems to get out of control quite rapidly. Played as Carthage last week end and the combination of the "distance from capital" and squalor made it almost impossible to hold a "huge city" even with a full garrison and no cultural difference malus (got thrown out of Cordoba which I had always owned ...) ... Only solution I have found (but that's not really one indeed), is to get out, let rebels take control, move back in and slaughter the entire population ... The money is nice but it's a problem if it happens to a city that was onwed by another not yet destroyed faction. I took Alexandria, enslave the population and the city got out of hand few years later. When I got out the city got full of Egyptians and it could have been a mess if the AI had not decided to charge out of city the next turn in an attempt quash the besieging army ...

Any tips to manage a 0% population growth ?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Squalor is generally lessened by prevention of the population getting to such higher proportions. Growth buildings probably should be destroyed to help the population growth go down and, although you can build farms, which are indestructible, it may be wise to observe the farming base rate as shown on the advanced settlement details scroll. That base rate is a massive contributor to growth and adding to it with something which cannot later be removed could be quite devastating.

If your struggling with the distance to capital penalty, if you haven't tried it already, you do have the ability to move your capital. Simply go to the settlement details scroll and, among the buttons in the bottom left hand corner, select the option to move your capital to that settlement. If you make the capital as central as possible, this allows you to keep everybody as happy as possible.



BTW, when you exterminate a settlement and you notice at face value a higher income, you are actually getting a lower income than you would without the extermination. Tax income is calculated based upon the number of people based in a settlement, but the way the game calculates military upkeep, the larger the population the more they pay to the armed forces. This gives the illusion of the largest settlements loosing money when actually they are your biggest earners. In the game it is actually impossible for a settlement to loose money.

A better view of real settlement wealth can be gained by going to the advanced settlement details scroll (the one with the pictograms) by activating one of the buttons on the bottom left hand corner of the standard settlement details scroll. On the income section, add up all the factors on the "+" side and then subtract all of the "-" factors excluding military upkeep.

[RLucid]

I'm not too certain, but I think that the amount of RAM the game can chew up is only limited to the size of the RAM itself. More of it/preventing other programs from taking it just allows you to play longer without noticing the slowdown problems.

One of the fixes to (IIRC 1.5) the game is for memory leak, which would gradually use more virtual memory, but 'dows should page out unused pages into the swap file, so it's not really 'chewing up RAM'. The game can only release that VM when it exits.

In general the RAM use would be asymptopic, rising fast initially then reaching a plateau slowly, with increase only due to 'leaks' where memory is grabbed and not freed correctly.

Most programs stabilise with a smaller working set of pages in RAM, than their apparent Virtual Memory requirements, which is the reason M$ recommend using swap files.

[Jxrc]

Squalor is generally lessened by prevention of the population getting to such higher proportions. Growth buildings probably should be destroyed to help the population growth go down and, although you can build farms, which are indestructible, it may be wise to observe the farming base rate as shown on the advanced settlement details scroll. That base rate is a massive contributor to growth and adding to it with something which cannot later be removed could be quite devastating.

Since the growth increase generated by "health" facilities (city plumbing and the like) is probably compensated by a reduction in squalor, I suppose that only temples that give growth bonus should be destroyed (and replaced) after they have served their purpose (Tanit and Ceres AFAIK) ? Or is there any kind of builing I am missing ?

If your struggling with the distance to capital penalty, if you haven't tried it already, you do have the ability to move your capital. Simply go to the settlement details scroll and, among the buttons in the bottom left hand corner, select the option to move your capital to that settlement. If you make the capital as central as possible, this allows you to keep everybody as happy as possible.

The thing is that I run into problem when my captial Carthage was pretty much in the middle of my kingdom that stretched from Spain to Jerusalem and I still got the maximum penalty (80% ?) form loads of cities so that any move closer to one edge would create havoc at the other end. Been building temple of Baal everwhere, upgrading facilities buit by previous owner and police HQ but it seems not to be enough. In another campgain as the Julii, I took everthing in Northern Europe, a big chunk of Spain and small pieces of Russia without trouble and even moving my initial capital so that it seems to me that "distance between capital" is actually measured on the basis of the distance between point A and B rather than on the number of provinces between those. Makes senses but quite a penalty for faction involved in "huge desert provinces" warfare (Scipii, Carthage, etc). Pehaps building huge armies and being broke all the time is the solution to both the squalor and 50,000 denarii problems ...

[Quintus.JC]

I suppose that only temples that give growth bonus should be destroyed (and replaced) after they have served their purpose (Tanit and Ceres AFAIK) ?

Most definitely, or better yet, don't build them at first place. Except if that region has a extremly poor population growth (e.g. Dumatha, Themiskyra, Nepte etc. etc.)

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Since the growth increase generated by "health" facilities (city plumbing and the like) is probably compensated by a reduction in squalor, I suppose that only temples that give growth bonus should be destroyed (and replaced) after they have served their purpose (Tanit and Ceres AFAIK) ? Or is there any kind of builing I am missing ?

I'm uncertain about those "other growth" buildings, but they do not reduce squalor - they only counteract it through an extra population boost and a happiness bonus. Regardless of this however, in the end, logically it seems that although they do increase overall squalor, they manage to counteract that increase at the same time due to the happiness bonus. This may make them fairly useless in the end game, but, from that perspective, unless you need the cash, I wouldn't say that they need to be destroyed.

[Tollheit]

- how do you know what is the max farm upgrade you can build in a city in order to avoird excessive population ? I undertand that the one that takes four turn to build is normally the limit but there seems to be some difference between province regarding "natural" farming output so that max farm upgrade might have some benefit in rather arid provinces (for instance Sahara)

This depends upon the base fertility of the region and the distance to your (future) capital. You can move your capital, but I found it easier to do so early and then never again and to plan accordingly.
Personally, I do not build any farms if the sum of base farm level, existing farm bonuses and distance penalty is equal to or greater than 6. If required, I raise the population by disbanding cheap units (peasants) and mercenaries in the respective city.

[Tollheit]

For my post above, 5% distance penalty translates to 0,5 farm level equivalent;
0,5 % farm level as shown on screen to 0,5.

[Tollheit]

This may make them fairly useless in the end game, but, from that perspective, unless you need the cash, I wouldn't say that they need to be destroyed.

If your population is too big to achieve 80% garrison, you might want to destroy them, in order to reduce your poplation to a more manageable level.

[Jxrc]

Regardless of this however, in the end, logically it seems that although they do increase overall squalor, they manage to counteract that increase at the same time due to the happiness bonus. This may make them fairly useless in the end game, but, from that perspective, unless you need the cash, I wouldn't say that they need to be destroyed.

My idea was that it might be a valid option to build a "increasing population" temple (for instance Tanit) until you get to a reasonable size (2000 or 6000 would be my guess) enabling you to buid some basic units and then destroy it and replace it with another temple that shall after a few turns give you the same happiness bonus (as the case may be with some other advantage for trade, weapons or law) without the growth bonus that may become more of a liability in the end. Of course, it will be difficult to do that after the city has reached a higher level since the temple is probably what prevents the people from revolting. If you do it when the temporary loss of hapiness bonus can still be compensate by an increased garrison or a tax cut, this might be worth a try since cities with less than 2000 inhabitants are pretty much uselesss for troop production purposes.

[Tollheit]

I just destroyed the temple of Baal in 33000 pop Carthago, in order to replace it with a shrine of jupiter. No sign of revolution... It can be done without a revolt if you have a high influence governor installed.

[Quintus.JC]

I just destroyed the temple of Baal in 33000 pop Carthago, in order to replace it with a shrine of jupiter. No sign of revolution... It can be done without a revolt if you have a high influence governor installed.

Don't forget the culture difference, a temple of Baal, no matter what the size or benifits is, cannot help in a Roman settlement.

[Tollheit]

Don't forget the culture difference, a temple of Baal, no matter what the size or benifits is, cannot help in a Roman settlement.

This is not true. If a settlement remains long enough in my possession, the culture penalty becomes 0, regardless of remaining alien buildings. I always keep execution places, taverns and odeons, even if playing roman.

Law and happiness bonus in Carthage dropped 10 points each upon destruction of the temple, proving that I did profit from the temple. I had no culture penalty remaining before I destroyed the temple.