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Thread: Vices and Virtues

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    Member Member Matrim's Avatar
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    Default Vices and Virtues

    I've recently run into several vices and virtues I have never seen before, or have seen so rarely that I don't remember them in particular.

    Is there a full list of vices/virtues? Is there also a list of certain causes? (I ask this 2nd part, because I tried to bribe an army, met the desired amount, and somehow the general was insulted and killed the emissary. He had -20% bribe at first, and after that he had +50% bribe, as well. Odd, no?)

    Anyway, I'm just curious as to what all I've been missing, and all that. Any know of something like that?

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    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    Quote Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
    I've recently run into several vices and virtues I have never seen before, or have seen so rarely that I don't remember them in particular.

    Is there a full list of vices/virtues?
    I believe this may be what you're looking for.


    Quote Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
    Is there also a list of certain causes? (I ask this 2nd part, because I tried to bribe an army, met the desired amount, and somehow the general was insulted and killed the emissary. He had -20% bribe at first, and after that he had +50% bribe, as well. Odd, no?
    Not that I'm aware of offhand, no. Not all traits have a cause, though; a number of them (particularly traits that affect acumen and command, such as Drinker, Numerate, Odd Number of Toes, etc.) are acquired at random.
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    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Vices and Virtues

    There is an old V&V guide in the Org download section. It does not list causes, however, because these are hardcoded (i.e. not within the accessible game files).
    Last edited by Ludens; 07-08-2008 at 20:29.
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    Member Member Matrim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    Well thanks, to both of you. I've run into the majority at one time or another, except the extremes, or the later "tiers" if you can understand what I mean by that. Interesting, though. One I recently found was "Delegates Responsibility" or somesuch. Adds 2 command and 2 acumen, if I remember correctly. I had never seen that one before, which is why I asked.

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    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    Quote Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
    One I recently found was "Delegates Responsibility" or somesuch. Adds 2 command and 2 acumen, if I remember correctly. I had never seen that one before, which is why I asked.
    I've heard of that one, but I'm honestly not sure if I've come across it myself. It does seem to be among the more rare traits.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

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    Member Member Knight of the Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues



    I've never seen such a boosting virtue, and it doesn't show in the list you've pointed to Martok.

    There's Educated and Eloquent, which gives something in that direction?

    And I couldn't see any file in the download section, I'm a little confused

    /KotR

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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    That one only shows up on heroes.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    That one only shows up on heroes.
    Can't check now, but is that one of the VnVs that's commented out in the descriptions text file? I was wondering about those, I wasn't sure if they were used or just left over from unreleased builds.
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    Member Member Knight of the Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    Found the text file, and it's there allright.

    Shows the list that was pointed to is not completely covering, OR that not all v&v's in the text file were used. Expert sieger springs to mind.

    So maybe some are only available to heroes, some are available to all, and we will never know

    /KotR

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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of the Rose View Post
    Found the text file, and it's there allright.

    Shows the list that was pointed to is not completely covering, OR that not all v&v's in the text file were used. Expert sieger springs to mind.

    So maybe some are only available to heroes, some are available to all, and we will never know

    /KotR
    Which text file did you find it in? I think the VnVs are listed in events.txt(?), but I didn't see it in there.
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    Member Member Knight of the Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    I'm not at my own computer at the moment, but I'm quite sure it was the "changes" text file.

    /KotR

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    Member Member Fagar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    I am interested in your views of the randomness of vices and virtues.

    Obviously they are a lot more common as your empire expands and you have more generals.
    I normally just wear them on the chin and only pay attention to the traits that stand out.

    However in my current campaign as the Danish, nearly without exception my generals have been picking up the pride vice, knocking 2 command off them all.
    This has become extremely frustrating as you have to battle a lot to gain command and to lose that command so easily is dissapointing. The extra valour is no compensation for this at all, especially as on last count 12 of my 14 decent generals have this trait.
    This has me questioning the randomness of trait giving and wondering if there is some code that is faction specific as I have not played as the Danes for years.
    What are your thoughts
    Cheers.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    I've noticed that pride can sometimes have run in a certain faction at a certain time. It's usually there from the start and lasts out the entire campaign with a lot of generals being affected.

    As to the randomness of v&vs, there is a random factor, but there are also certain events and other factors that influences vices. There are the obvious ones such as marrying the king to his daughter always creates the same vice and building triggering the builder line of virtues. But also high taxes, large treasury and a large income can also trigger corruption related vices.
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    Member Member Fagar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    Cheers Caraveloto;

    What you said certainly makes a lot of sense.
    In nearly every campaign I have played as soon as I am powerful the vices start coming thick and fast.
    I have just never encountered such a prevelance of the one vice and it is a nasty one at that!
    My income is good at the momemt and my treasury sound I will reduce my taxes for a bit and see if there is any improvement.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Vices and Virtues

    Getting taxes down to normal once you're established and reducing your treasury somewhat makes a difference when it comes to corruption related vices. Just ensure that you are not overly dependent on trade income. Build farmland upgrades and mines where possible and disband units you do not need, especially any mercs. A peasant garisson, lots of happy builidngs and a higher level spy is more than enough for those provinces that are closed off from the enemy and/or have your fleets defending from coastal attacks. In Vanilla MTW the AI hardly spams ships so a 3 ships per sea region rule is a good idea. Three ships can usually take on and defeat anything that the AI throws at you. Try to upgrade to newer ship types when they become available, as support costs can be lower. Also if you claim an Island somewhere in the Med it could reduce your ship support costs significantly as they are calculated based on their distance from a friendly port.

    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

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