Replacing mercenarys with 'normal' units?

[Che Roriniho]

Hey there, a thought recently crossed my mind (It didn't take it long [it didn't have far to go]): why do we have 2 seperate units for, among others, Peltastae, Toxotoi Kretikoi, and others (1 as a mercenary, one, well, not)
Would it be simple to simply erase the mercenary version and replace it with the standard version? because no new units are being created or anything, I'm guessing it would just be editing various text files.
I cannot see why, historically, a Mercenary Cretan Archer couldn't be retrained in Crete back to it's full potential.
This would make mercenaries a much more useful option, especially if you're playing as someione like epieros, who historically fielded very large mercenary armies. Plus, retraining would be able to be utilized.

[Foot]

Only mercenary units can be recruited as mercenaries.

Foot

[Che Roriniho]

but for instance, Noricum Spearmen and Tekastos can be recruited as Noricum Spearmen and Tekastos, whereas Peltastai are suddenly 'Mercenary Peltasts'. there is no difference in stats, so why is it like this in some cases, and not in others?

[MerlinusCDXX]

*I'm not a team member, so I may not be 100% correct,* but I think it has something to do with getting around the unit limit for RTW. Yeah, some mercs are retrainable, barracks-recruitable, and don't have the merc designation (ex. Samnites, Persian Heavy Archers, Kamboja Lt. Cav.), even though they have been hired as mercs. Some merc units have the merc designation (misthophoroi-Greek, mizdaghan-Persian , cur----{Gallic}), but they are recruitable for some factions from a barracks. (ex. Misthophoroi Thraikioi Prodromoi, Misthophoroi Thraikioi Peltastai)








*Standard Disclaimer*

[Che Roriniho]

*I'm not a team member, so I may not be 100% correct,* but I think it has something to do with getting around the unit limit for RTW. Yeah, some mercs are retrainable, barracks-recruitable, and don't have the merc designation (ex. Samnites, Persian Heavy Archers, Kamboja Lt. Cav.), even though they have been hired as mercs. Some merc units have the merc designation (misthophoroi-Greek, mizdaghan-Persian , cur----{Gallic}), but they are recruitable for some factions from a barracks. (ex. Misthophoroi Thraikioi Prodromoi, Misthophoroi Thraikioi Peltastai)








*Standard Disclaimer*

I'm not quite surw I understand you. Surely any new units would only ADD to the total number of units. also, you cannot recruit misthoporoi Thaikioi peltastae, only Thrakioi peltastae.

[MerlinusCDXX]

umm, as Arkhe Seleukeia and as Ptolemaioi, when I build a level 4 regional barracks in Nikaia, I can recruit Misthophoroi Thraikioi Prodromoi and Misthophoroi Thraikioi Peltastai, and the units have the "merc" designation in the recruit window (they are named the full name that I typed out). I don't know exactly why they did it like that, though it could be that there are hardcoded separate slots for "factional" units and "merc" units (I think I did read this in an old post here).

[Che Roriniho]

umm, as Arkhe Seleukeia and as Ptolemaioi, when I build a level 4 regional barracks in Nikaia, I can recruit Misthophoroi Thraikioi Prodromoi and Misthophoroi Thraikioi Peltastai, and the units have the "merc" designation in the recruit window (they are named the full name that I typed out). I don't know exactly why they did it like that, though it could be that there are hardcoded separate slots for "factional" units and "merc" units (I think I did read this in an old post here).

Oooh... I'm intrigued... but even so, I would think it would make life easier if they were non mercenaries, surely? Sorry about doubting you, I'm just speaking from experience.

[Foot]

Okay, lets go a little more indepth.

A unit is defined in the export_descr_units.txt. It uses one soldier model, which are defined in the descr_model_battle.txt. Each model has 22 texture slots, one for each faction + a slave skin and a merc skin. When a unit is given the mercenary_unit attribute then when it is recruited (either from the mercenary system or through the barracks) then it will use the merc skin slot, regardless of what faction recruits it. When a unit doesn't have the mercenary_unit attribute then it cannot be recruited through the mercenary system, but the skin that is applied to the model is the faction skin of whatever faction recruited the unit.

Thus, if we want a unit of Peltastai to be a mercenary unit (and so recruited through the mercenary pool) then it must have the mercenary_unit attribute. We could use this same unit of Peltastai, which has the mercenary_unit attribute, as the recruitable unit as well, but if we did so all Peltastai would look the same, regardless of what unit recruited them. So, to allow the Peltastai to be recruited both as a normal unit and as a mercenary unit, but without all Peltastai looking the same, we have to have two different units of them; one is the normal unit and looks different for each faction, the other is the mercenary unit and looks the same but can be recruited from the mercenary pool.

I cannot explain it better than that.

May I suggest, that had you thought on the issue a little further you might have realised that there may be a reason and so could have done a little research into the problem and discovered this on your own. It is far more rewarding this way. I mean, for a start, the top of the EDU has all this information anyway.

Foot

[Che Roriniho]

Okay, lets go a little more indepth.

A unit is defined in the export_descr_units.txt. It uses one soldier model, which are defined in the descr_model_battle.txt. Each model has 22 texture slots, one for each faction + a slave skin and a merc skin. When a unit is given the mercenary_unit attribute then when it is recruited (either from the mercenary system or through the barracks) then it will use the merc skin slot, regardless of what faction recruits it. When a unit doesn't have the mercenary_unit attribute then it cannot be recruited through the mercenary system, but the skin that is applied to the model is the faction skin of whatever faction recruited the unit.

Thus, if we want a unit of Peltastai to be a mercenary unit (and so recruited through the mercenary pool) then it must have the mercenary_unit attribute. We could use this same unit of Peltastai, which has the mercenary_unit attribute, as the recruitable unit as well, but if we did so all Peltastai would look the same, regardless of what unit recruited them. So, to allow the Peltastai to be recruited both as a normal unit and as a mercenary unit, but without all Peltastai looking the same, we have to have two different units of them; one is the normal unit and looks different for each faction, the other is the mercenary unit and looks the same but can be recruited from the mercenary pool.

I cannot explain it better than that.

May I suggest, that had you thought on the issue a little further you might have realised that there may be a reason and so could have done a little research into the problem and discovered this on your own. It is far more rewarding this way. I mean, for a start, the top of the EDU has all this information anyway.

Foot

okay, sorry. my computer just about manages to play EB as it is, so I'm unable to experiment with it much. sorry to bother you.