Will You Buy a SecuRomed Empire?

[Ferret]

Careful, now. You're not implying that the venerable Hosakawa Tito is lying and/or a pirate, are you?

While I (mostly) kid, it does bring up a valid point: Just because you and I have personally not had problems with SecuROM, it doesn't change the fact that a good number of people *have*. Yes, they're probably in the minority, but a fairly significant minority for all that. People who worry over SecuROM and other invasive copy protection software are perfectly justified in their concerns.

Well the funny thing is I have not found anywhere, on any forum for a game that contains SecuROM a problem that has been caused by it. But no I wasn't calling HT a liar or a pirate, apologies if it came across that way

I also appreciate the point that pirates can still get hold of the game but at least it is a little harder for piraters to remove SecuROM. I sympathize for the companies that want to stop this piracy which is eating out of their profit margins, and less profit means less incentive to put hard work into making the games as good as they can be. Seeing people refuse to buy the game because of this attempted piracy protection makes me sad because they end up missing out on great games that they don't know will cause any problems for them, which makes it even harder for the designers to make more money, I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming

[Thermal]

id buy it regardless, i can perfectly enjoy a game without needing to tamper with it

[rajpoot]

I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming

I doubt it, sooner or later they have to come up with a protection that is not too intrusive for the customers but will keep off the pirates.........either way, a big part of the games is online play, and only real buyers can use that, so I don't think there'll be a time when everyone goes over to the other side.

[PBI]

I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming

I don't know, I get the impression that it's not that hard to do at the moment and most people still buy legit copies. In particular, the GalCiv series should be very easy to pirate what with having essentially no copy protection but I believe it has still sold well.

I get the impression PC gamers represent a fairly loyal and intelligent end of the market; most games are part of a long running franchise, and most gamers I suspect have the sense to realise that if too many of them give their money to the pirates instead of the devs, the devs will stop making their favourite games.

[ArtistofWarfare]

There really is no major threat to PC gaming sales due to piracy. Console games are rampantly pirated - yet you don't see them in any jeopardy.

This is just scare tactics from companies looking to raise their bottom line .3% that's it. Let's be real here too: Whether the CEO of a gaming company can buy a new pair of pants next week or not, is really not a globally important issue.

I say they just bite the bullet of certain expenses (pirated copies) that every company on earth deals with. Nothing's perfect. Not the games they make, nor the market they sell them to.

We've already proven that SecuROM does absolutely NOTHING to limit piracy. It doesn't even lower the number of total pirated copies by one. It is utterly, irrelevant.

[benF86]

As long copy protection is man-made it can also be man-unmade therefore it is just a waste of time.

What they should do is provide good demos, not be months or god beware years late with the release compared to the original release date and

make sure the game can be bought around the world at the same time and not just in the biggest countries at first and then PERHAPS in some smaller ones months later. Eastern and Southern Europe for example. #1 the games cost the same as in Germany or the UK, where the wages are incomparably higher and not only that they cost the same, they arrive on shelves on shops 2-3 months later. And then the publishers wonder why everyone pirates stuff? And since very few really good games have been made lately, by the time the legit versions are available, people get bored with the game and don't buy it anymore.

For example: Tickets to Madonna's concert in Vienna cost €100 or so.
Tickets for Madonna's concert in Budva (Southern Europe) €50.
That's good marketing.

As opposed to this:

(it's a console example because the last game I bought was for PS3 but it serves the purpose)

GTA IV for PS3 - bought online in Canada. With money exchange costs, shipping, taxes and customs it cost me about €50
GTA IV for PS3 - in a games store here in Slovenia - €70

Instead of not giving the chance to copy, first give the chance to BUY THE BLOODY THING!

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

(it's a console example because the last game I bought was for PS3 but it serves the purpose)

GTA IV for PS3 - bought online in Canada. With money exchange costs, shipping, taxes and customs it cost me about €50
GTA IV for PS3 - in a games store here in Slovenia - €70

Instead of not giving the chance to copy, first give the chance to BUY THE BLOODY THING!

I know what you mean. In fact, every single game on my computer has been bought either in Canada or as a (paid) download for exactly this reason. It's ridiculous how much they charge us. Adding copy protection is more or less the final straw.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Though I must admit that the problem isn't only video games, but almost everything to do with computers.

[TevashSzat]

I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming

Well...not really. Piracy has now become the thing to bash whenever a studio is doing badly.

The game is selling in quantities that are lower than expectations: That can only be because people are pirating it and not because the company made a poor game that did not meet expectations or was just crappy.

Take Crysis for example, one executive I think or at least a high ranking official associated with the game boldly claimed that for ever copy of Crysis sold, 20 were pirated Right......Just to put it in perspective, Crysis has gone platinum so it has sold 1 million legitimate copies already which would mean that 20+ million people have either downloaded it with the intent to play. Just to put this in perspective, Starcraft, the greatest selling RTS ever made: less than 10 million copies including expansion. WoW only has like 11 million subscribers. In fact, the only games that I can remember off the top of my head that sold more copies than 20 million is the original the Sims and all of its expansions combined

Gaming as an industry is dying due to piracy: Yeah...right and its not because the overall quality of PC gaming has decreased ie there are far less innovative games and mostly just cookie cutter, FPS, RTS, RPG, or Sport related games released en mass

Look at DS. No one is proclaiming that DS gaming is dead, but it is the most easily pirated modern gaming apparatus out there. Theres no reason to mess around with torrents, mounting, cracks and stuff. Instead, you download like a 10 mb file, copy it onto a very very cheap disk (forgot what is was called) and you're able to play it just fine without any restrictions whatsoever. Yet, DS games are just selling just fine.

Finally, regarding pirating: people who pirate aren't just jerks who are really cheap and don't want to pay anything. They are those who don't have the money to and probably won't buy any games if they don't pirate. In fact, pirate might expand the consumer bases of some games by simply giving it access to a broader group of people that might end up liking the game and become devoted to the series

[Praxil]

I think people are voting with the feelings more than reality. Once game turns out to be great, you all will run and buy a copy. Or get it other way, I ain't judging.

[Galain_Ironhide]

Look, to be frank I am not even going to read the pages upon pages of threads here, but rather just voice my opinion. However right or wrong this may sound.

I got involved in this type of discussion when Securom was an issue for Kingdoms. I must say all this discussion of Securom certainly steered me away from buying Kingdoms until only like a month or so ago. I bought Kingdoms, installed it and low and behold, the game works fine and the rest of my system works fine too (albeit a dodgy mod download crashed everything to do with m2tw, meaning I had to wipe it all of my hard drive and start over - and no it wasnt a securom issue). I even went as far as commenting in this thread months ago in its infancy and said I would not be buying this game if it was Securomed.

But now, whilst I feel the pain of what the minority of people have had caused to them due to Securom related issues, my view is that if you're a just a normal guy like me who wants to turn on his computer, load a game and play it (and you're not into any other type of programming or wizbang stuff - sorry not very technical minded), then go out and buy Empire because you will not have any trouble.

Then if you happen to uninstall the game for some reason or another (as we all know, after the game is gone, Securom stays in the registry), you can actually download Securom removal tools for free that remove it completely from your registry (after game removal) - Google is a wonderful thing. Now if someone like me can do that, then 99% of other computer illiterates should be able to do the same.

Thanks for hearing me out.

[Mikeus Caesar]

I'm hoping CA don't tread the evil path, after all, just look at the Spore debacle...

[JR-]

I'm hoping CA don't tread the evil path, after all, just look at the Spore debacle...

I bought Spore, but i absolutely panned it with a one-star review lambasting the use of intrusive DRM, i will do the same with empire if it is necessary.

Chasing casual gamers will become a perilous exercise when casual gamers are so dependent on customer reviews!

[RodeoX]

Just checking in to see if the publishers have come to their senses and dropped the DRM malware. I was very disappointed to hear about the inclusion of SecuRome. It is a deal breaker for me and I will not be purchasing a copy of Empire. The real shame is that the two games I most anticipated, Empire and Spore, are both ruined by this junk. In case anyone in power is reading, I will not change my mind and give in at some point. My own security policy does not allow software like this to run.
But, I'll check in once in a while to see if you change your mind.

[TevashSzat]

Then if you happen to uninstall the game for some reason or another (as we all know, after the game is gone, Securom stays in the registry), you can actually download Securom removal tools for free that remove it completely from your registry (after game removal) - Google is a wonderful thing. Now if someone like me can do that, then 99% of other computer illiterates should be able to do the same.

Yes, the issues are with a minority and it doesn't even affect me at all.

The issue is that we shouldn't have to to everything like that. By forcing us to install Securom, these videogame publishers are treating their consumers like criminals from the very beginning. That same logic to justify Securom can also be used to justify having the government wiretap all of your phones. You can argue that if you aren't doing anything illegal, you shouldn't have to fear about wiretaps, but that argument will never win.

Also, in a topic related to this, check out this story: Pickets Form Around Spore's Expanding Galaxy

[Martok]

The issue is that we shouldn't have to to everything like that. By forcing us to install Securom, these videogame publishers are treating their consumers like criminals from the very beginning. That same logic to justify Securom can also be used to justify having the government wiretap all of your phones. You can argue that if you aren't doing anything illegal, you shouldn't have to fear about wiretaps, but that argument will never win.

Very well put, TevashSzat. An excellent analogy with the wiretaps.

[PBI]

I think Galain is correct to point out that at least in the form present on Kingdoms, SecuROM is not a major inconvenience or impediment to playing the game for most players; it's mainly the principle of the thing which is unpleasant, i.e. the company treating its customers as though they are all potential thieves and cannot be trusted. It is still however, not nearly as bad as some of the more draconian incarnations of SecuROM and other DRM, for instance those imposing only 3 installs or requiring weekly online verification, which massively inconvenience the average player by either forcing them to keep the game installed forever and never change computers, or else have their ability to play the game beholden to unreliable internet connections and the goodwill of the company to keep the servers running.

Should Empire ship with such an extreme form of SecuROM or other DRM, I may well decide not to buy it. If it is the same as or similar to the DRM on Kingdoms, I suspect my desire to play the game will win out over my principles and I will buy it anyway, and grumble about it later on the Org. I daresay that many players who are less excited about the game than me though will decide to pass.

I cannot believe this sort of thing is not starting to cost the publishers money. Just look at the Spore fiasco; 1500 1-star reviews on as big a retailer as Amazon must surely be having a major impact on sales. I know for a fact that I myself have decided not to buy several titles that I would otherwise have bought purely because of the heavy handed DRM, including Bioshock, Spore and, like Martok and with a heavy heart, Red Alert 3 (). And I am not a particularly principled consumer; I simply decided that the DRM was not worth the hassle. My hope is that things like the money EA will lose over the Spore fiasco will be enough to scare other developers out of using such heavy-handed measures in future, and we will all get to live in a utopian Stardock-like gaming paradise, where developers release the game without DRM and consumers have the sense to realise that if they want there to be any more sequels, they had better make sure they buy the game legitimately rather than pirating it.

[Martok]

I think people are voting with the feelings more than reality. Once game turns out to be great, you all will run and buy a copy.

I think you underestimate just how much some people despise DRM software. I was very much looking forward to Spore, but ended up not getting it when I found out it was going to include SecuROM. Yesterday, I cancelled my pre-order for Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 (EA just confirmed it was shipping with SecuROM as well).

I was really looking forward to Red Alert 3 -- indeed, it's one of the *very* few games I've ever pre-ordered. Even more than Empire, there's no other game coming out in the next 6 months that I'd looked forward to with as much anticipation. Yet despite how badly I want to play Red Alert, I will not buy it -- ever -- as long as it comes with SecuROM.

Even though Galain_Ironhide is right in that I could probably find a way to uninstall SecuROM, that's not a real solution. I would still be giving my hard-earned money to a publisher that installs DRM on people's computers, which is one thing I flatly refuse to do.

[nameless]

I think you underestimate just how much some people despise DRM software. I was very much looking forward to Spore, but ended up not getting it when I found out it was going to include SecuROM. Yesterday, I cancelled my pre-order for Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 (EA just confirmed it was shipping with SecuROM as well).

I was really looking forward to Red Alert 3 -- indeed, it's one of the *very* few games I've ever pre-ordered. Even more than Empire, there's no other game coming out in the next 6 months that I'd looked forward to with as much anticipation. Yet despite how badly I want to play Red Alert, I will not buy it -- ever -- as long as it comes with SecuROM.

Even though Galain_Ironhide is right in that I could probably find a way to uninstall SecuROM, that's not a real solution. I would still be giving my hard-earned money to a publisher that installs DRM on people's computers, which is one thing I flatly refuse to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but so far those games belong to EA who seems to be gung-ho about this whole securom thing.

Add in Sims, Mass effect, and Crysis and all of them belong to EA.

Would SEGA or any other game developer follow the same footsteps as they are?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Would SEGA or any other game developer follow the same footsteps as they are?

SecuROM was installed on Kingdoms and later patches of M2:TW.

[nameless]

SecuROM was installed on Kingdoms and later patches of M2:TW.

Probably should've been more specific.

When I meant gung-ho I'm talking about the online activation, limited installations and all that other stuff.