I Am Shocked, Shocked that U.S. Gov Abused Blank Check Powers

[Redleg]

Getting back to the point, I need someone... Redleg, whoever thinks I'm just a ridiculous partisan, to give me their compelling argument as to why I should believe out of the two parties that stand any chance whatsoever of controlling the government in January, that the Republicans are the ones who are going to overturn all their own power-abusive legislation.

Sure I think that your a one sided partisan because that is what you chose to present yourself as.

As for which party is better to fix our government - neither of the current major parties have a chance to fix the government since both of them pander to special interests. My issue on this topic is yes the Republican president put into congress and had approved by a Republican Controlled Congress a piece of legislation that is frankly goofy and an invasion of privacy, and when the Democratic controlled congress had a chance to refuse to renew this law - they chose to let it continue with some additions. (no substractions of the regulations to lessen the severity of the invasion of privacy.)

But instead of pointing out that both parties are to blame for this piece of garbage legislation - your focused on attempting to point out the Republicans are worse.

Sorry there - I cant agree when the other side had the opporunity and the ability to strike it down.

So once again if you want to be a partisan debater in this forum, you have to except that some of us will point out that both parties are at fault, differing in degrees at times, but the corruption and failures of both parites over the last 20 years sort of run together into one big overwhelming mass of corruption, dishonesty, and incompentance.

You should have noticed by now that I also hold the republican party responsible for their failure, but that doesnt mean the democratic party is going to be let off of the same hook that they bite into.

[Koga No Goshi]

Sure I think that your a one sided partisan because that is what you chose to present yourself as.

As for which party is better to fix our government - neither of the current major parties have a chance to fix the government since both of them pander to special interests. My issue on this topic is yes the Republican president put into congress and had approved by a Republican Controlled Congress a piece of legislation that is frankly goofy and an invasion of privacy, and when the Democratic controlled congress had a chance to refuse to renew this law - they chose to let it continue with some additions. (no substractions of the regulations to lessen the severity of the invasion of privacy.)

But instead of pointing out that both parties are to blame for this piece of garbage legislation - your focused on attempting to point out the Republicans are worse.

Sorry there - I cant agree when the other side had the opporunity and the ability to strike it down.

So once again if you want to be a partisan debater in this forum, you have to except that some of us will point out that both parties are at fault, differing in degrees at times, but the corruption and failures of both parites over the last 20 years sort of run together into one big overwhelming mass of corruption, dishonesty, and incompentance.

You should have noticed by now that I also hold the republican party responsible for their failure, but that doesnt mean the democratic party is going to be let off of the same hook that they bite into.

As usual, your post missed my question and went off topic, littered with some personal jibes.

I'll ask it again. What reason is there to believe that the Dems are less likely than the Reps to overturn Rep legislation in the next four years?

Yup, they haven't done it yet. Yup, more of them than I would have liked signed off on it. (I half-way forgive most of them the first time around because it was shoved through like the bailout NOW NOW NOW NOW we need this NOW for national security, before it was established this would be the M.O. for everything bad Bush's admin wanted to pass.) But I still believe them far more likely to curtail or overturn it in the next four years than the Reps.

And if you have no compelling argument to the contrary, then calling me a partisan is just an empty ad hominem.

[Redleg]

As usual, your post missed my question and went off topic, littered with some personal jibes.

As usual you asked for it, and you failed to read what was actually written. Here is the statement once again that you failed to read because you are indeed a partisan hack on this subject. In bold to make it easier for your ability to actually read something.

As for which party is better to fix our government - neither of the current major parties have a chance to fix the government since both of them pander to special interests

I'll ask it again. What reason is there to believe that the Dems are less likely than the Reps to overturn Rep legislation in the next four years?

Like alreadly stated on this topic - because you are demostrating an inablity to actually read what is written I will bold it for you again. the Democratics had the opporunity to overturn a piece of legislation and they did not, in fact I believe they approved measures to make it even easier.

Both parties have demonstrated that they are unlikely to do what is in the best interest of the nation. So once again the democratic party has demonstrated by their own actions that they are just as unlikely to overturn legislation once its been inacted.

Yup, they haven't done it yet. Yup, more of them than I would have liked signed off on it. (I half-way forgive most of them the first time around because it was shoved through like the bailout NOW NOW NOW NOW we need this NOW for national security, before it was established this would be the M.O. for everything bad Bush's admin wanted to pass.) But I still believe them far more likely to curtail or overturn it in the next four years than the Reps.

They might, however they have demonstrated on this issue that they won't as of right now. So saying that they are more likely when they have demonstrated that they won't is an extremely weak arguement. What's even funnier is that this was stated the first time and you failed to actually read.

And if you have no compelling argument to the contrary, then calling me a partisan is just an empty ad hominem.

Actaully it is not since you failed to actually read what I stated. I clearly stated that neither party is likely to do the right thing at this time. Your comments are extremely one sided - which makes you a partisan hack. If you think that is a personal jabe then fine but dont ask the question if you dont want to hear the answer, and then claim it wasn't answered. I find that extremely funny given your attempt here.

[Koga No Goshi]

As usual you asked for it, and you failed to read what was actually written.

Like alreadly stated on this topic - the Democratics had the opporunity to overturn a piece of legislation and they did not, in fact I believe they approved measures to make it even easier.

Both parties have demonstrated that they are unlikely to do what is in the best interest of the nation. So once again the democratic party has demonstrated by their own actions that they are just as unlikely to overturn legislation once its been inacted.

Actaully it is not since you failed to actually read what I stated. I clearly stated that neither party is likely to do the right thing at this time. Your comments are extremely one sided - which makes you a partisan hack. If you think that is a personal jabe then fine but dont ask the question if you dont want to hear the answer, often the answer is not what you wanted to hear

My pained eyes can attest to the fact that I do, indeed, read what you say. And for future reference, responding to every sentence with "You did not read what I say, you fail at comprehension" does not further your argument. Especially when it's not true. :) You're just being trollish.

Since your answer was basically "we can't trust either party to do anything", and since the legislation is Republican in origin, and since there is zero chance that a third party will control the government in January, you have no call to label me a partisan for not changing my vote over the Patriot Act and wiretapping. I have more faith in what will probably end up being an even stronger Dem majority to overturn these laws or retire them, than I do in the Republican party to admit their ideas were bad an unlawful, perhaps even requiring investigations and subpoenas, and working to rectify and overturn these laws.

As for which party is better to fix our government - neither of the current major parties have a chance to fix the government since both of them pander to special interests

Since you propose no realistic alternatives as viable avenues to get these laws removed, you are just ranting and raving, and calling me a partisan and foaming at the mouth and insulting me. But you've got nothing to sell, so it's time to move on. :)

[Redleg]

My pained eyes can attest to the fact that I do, indeed, read what you say. And for future reference, responding to every sentence with "You did not read what I say, you fail at comprehension" does not further your argument. Especially when it's not true. :) You're just being trollish.

Tsk tsk - you stated I didnt answer the question - so you clearly did not read what was written. So the attempt here is false.

Since your answer was basically "we can't trust either party to do anything", and since the legislation is Republican in origin, and since there is zero chance that a third party will control the government in January, you have no call to label me a partisan for not changing my vote over the Patriot Act and wiretapping. I have more faith in what will probably end up being an even stronger Dem majority to overturn these laws or retire them, than I do in the Republican party to admit their ideas were bad an unlawful, perhaps even requiring investigations and subpoenas, and working to rectify and overturn these laws.

LOL - did I ask you to change your vote? I find that very amusing. Unfortunately for you the democtratic party has demonstrated by action that they are just as unlikely to overturn legislation once its inacted.

Since you propose no realistic alternatives as viable avenues to get these laws removed, you are just ranting and raving, and calling me a partisan and foaming at the mouth and insulting me. But you've got nothing to sell, so it's time to move on. :)

LOL - you might want to check on what you asked, your question is which of the two parties is most likely to do the right thing, you got your answer, However you failed to ask the question that you are attempting to ask now, so once again to address your initial question, both parties have demonstrated that they are unable to actually overturn a piece of legislation that they have enacted.

So you now to answer you new question is for some brave constitutional lawyer to actually challenge the law and take it through the legal system so that the third branch of our government can have the chance to demonstrate if they are capable of protecting our basic rights.

[Koga No Goshi]

Tsk tsk - you stated I didnt answer the question - so you clearly did not read what was written. So the attempt here is false.

Not at all, this all came out of you and others calling me a partisan for saying I still felt the best chance was with the Dems, and you all smugly pulled out their recent votes and such... and I failed, and continue to fail, to see why that is an argument that any other viable path in November will likely produce the desired result of overturning these bad laws.

[Redleg]

Not at all, this all came out of you and others calling me a partisan for saying I still felt the best chance was with the Dems, and you all smugly pulled out their recent votes and such... and I failed, and continue to fail, to see why that is an argument that any other viable path in November will likely produce the desired result of overturning these bad laws.

Like I have told you before extremely one sided arguements are partisan arguements. Now where it came from was not from your attempt of claiming that the democratics were the best chance its the actually arguement that you did present. It comes from your very first position.

Your very first post was an attempt at partisan humor, and when asked about the statement you replied with a basic partisan arguement, instead of addressing the failure of the current congress in passing the renewal of this legislation.

And to compound your error you decided to ask a question which you were not prepared for how it was going to be answered. You wanted me to claim that the Republicans were a better party, which demonstrates that you have not been paying attention to any of the statements I have written.

Then again it seems you are wanting a repeat of the discussion, and i will try to be a bit more civil, but then again maybe not given your initial attempts at misrepresentation of what I actually stated. So the ball is in your court, trying to misrepresent what is stated will definitily raise my interest in responding in a more basic manner.


Neither of the two men running for office will do anything concerning this particlur law. The Democratic party controls Congress right now and failed to do anything concerning this law, care to guess how both men voted on the renewal of this law? One did not vote and one voted for it, and it wasn't McCain that voted on the law. http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2008_cr/index.html So claiming that democratic party will overturn a law that they both supported given the way both parties voted for it, demonstrates a naivity that is basically a partisan arguement given that part of the party and it's presidential candidate in alreadly disproved your claim with their votes for the legislation. Now to cut the democratic party a break they at least had about half vote against the law, but as a party they failed to protect the american people's rights.

So the only viable path to overturn bad law in the United States happens to fall on the third branch of government - the Judicial Branch, and they can not doing anything until some brave constitutional lawyer decides to actually attempt the arguement. Claiming that the democratic party is better then the republican party falls flat on its face when one begins to look at the actions of congress