Jorg Haider is Dead

[Louis VI the Fat]

I could not agree more with Meneldil. The EU is not the United Nations, it is instead an assembly of democracies. Franco couldn't join, Salazar couldn't join, the Greek colonels couldn't join, the communists states couldn't join. Not until they were democracies they couldn't. Similarly, if a country lapses into an undemocratic system, it will get kicked out. Less dramatic, if it has undemocratic parties in it's government, it risks resistance, even boycott, from other countries.

Like it or not, the EU is about spreading and safeguarding democracy in Europe. So sorry for all our authoritarian politicians out there. Don't like it? Leave. Get on a plane and fly to North Korea or Syria.
We just spend a disastrous century trying to keep communism, fascism, authroritarianism down. It nearly destroyed Europe. Never again.

Was Haider a nazi? Perhaps not.
But is it unreasonable for Europe to be very wary of nazism in Austria? Of Austrian politicians palling around with SS men, of singing the praise of Austrian moral superiority over lesser peoples, of Austrian anti-Semitism and praise for it's dark WWII history?
I think not.

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Haider died as he lived, over the limit and full of gas.
Alcohol promillage of 1.8, and doing 142 km an hour. Thank God he crashed before he hurt any innocents.

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Frag - you whine about Muslims undermining European values and democracy, trying to install Islamofascism. Yet you are disappointed when Europe actually tries to prevent Eurofascism?

TuffStuff - especially for you: you do realise Haider had many extramarital homosexual affairs? He was legendary in the Vienna gay scene.

PanzerJaeger - On meeting Saddam Hussein in the run-up to the Iraq war, Haider expressed the 'best wishes of the Austrian people and the Freedom party as well as their solidarity with the people of Iraq and their wise leadership'.
You will need to choose, PJ. A man can't both support America and European nazism. They are mortal enemies.

[Fragony]

Frag - you whine about Muslims undermining European values and democracy, trying to install Islamofascism. Yet you are disappointed when Europe actually tries to prevent Eurofascism?


I thought you understood my position on the islamisation this is kinda dissapointing. As for Haider, if Haider would be elected would there be no democracy anymore, would there be no opposition, no parlement, he wouldn't be 'in power'. Never really knew him, looking back he is way too extreme for my taste but allowing the EU to intervene in national democratic processes, you kidding me? No way there is nothing that keeps the EU in check. The racist right exists for a reason, that reason being utmost stupidity and sadly the response is even worse if it happens to be the EU.

[drone]

So does this mean the US gets a free pass from Europe (or at least France) for cutting off the Palestinians when they elected HAMAS?

[Louis VI the Fat]

I thought you understood my position on the islamisation this is kinda dissapointing.

Actually, I though you and I shared an open and uncompromising aversion to Islamofascism.

You like politicians who break open a few taboos. Who shoot some holes in blind muliticulturalism. Maybe I do too. But where's the fun if we can't cross swords over details?

[Fragony]

Sorry, in 99% of these cases there isn't any room for play that makes one defensive.

[PanzerJaeger]

I could not agree more with Meneldil. The EU is not the United Nations, it is instead an assembly of democracies. Franco couldn't join, Salazar couldn't join, the Greek colonels couldn't join, the communists states couldn't join. Not until they were democracies they couldn't. Similarly, if a country lapses into an undemocratic system, it will get kicked out. Less dramatic, if it has undemocratic parties in it's government, it risks resistance, even boycott, from other countries.

Like it or not, the EU is about spreading and safeguarding democracy in Europe. So sorry for all our authoritarian politicians out there. Don't like it? Leave. Get on a plane and fly to North Korea or Syria.
We just spend a disastrous century trying to keep communism, fascism, authroritarianism down. It nearly destroyed Europe. Never again.

Was Haider a nazi? Perhaps not.
But is it unreasonable for Europe to be very wary of nazism in Austria? Of Austrian politicians palling around with SS men, of singing the praise of Austrian moral superiority over lesser peoples, of Austrian anti-Semitism and praise for it's dark WWII history?
I think not.

That's all well and good, but Haider was a democratically elected politician who made no attempts to change that system. If the EU wants to bully countries that elect anti-eu politicians, thats their perogative - but don't try and dress it up as anything other than that.

PanzerJaeger - On meeting Saddam Hussein in the run-up to the Iraq war, Haider expressed the 'best wishes of the Austrian people and the Freedom party as well as their solidarity with the people of Iraq and their wise leadership'.

You act as though his sentiments on the Iraq conflict were unique to Europeans. Most Europeans sought to undermine US efforts. Your own president at the time gave Saddam far more support than Haider ever could have by seriously damaging the transatlantic alliance.

In any event, I do not support every position he held, but I don't discount him completely for those disagreements.

You will need to choose, PJ. A man can't both support America and European nazism. They are mortal enemies.

Nazism is dead. I support honoring the brave German soldiers who fought and died in WW2; and moving past myth of German exceptionalism in the "evil" department.


Also, poor show trying to use the man's sexuality to dissuade his supporters, as if it has anything to do with the discussion. You'd make a wonderful Republican.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Haider was a cocaine sniffing pederast.

I brought it up, not so much because I mind - except for Haider's incereasing tendency to rape fifteen year old Slovakian boys for kicks - but because I have an inkling that it might dissuade TuffStuffMcGruff away from him. TSM expressed some curiousity about Haider. Now he knows who Haider is.
Did I mention yet that our hypocrite portrayed himself as a family man? Married with children and all that?

I'm sorry I only have a German link. However, the accompanying pictures should suffice.


No more cocaine-imbued rape-fests of Slovakian children for you, Jörg! Auf Wiedersehn!

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I'm sorry I only have a German link. However, the accompanying pictures should suffice.

Come on Louis, a better source if you please. I'd at least like some guarantee that those aren't photoshopped.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Links for Haider's homosexuality?

Here you go.

Oops, that was a link to a recently unveiled Berlin monument to homosexual nazi-victims. So sorry about that.


Did I mention yet that Haider was big friends with the SS troops that were responsible for the extermination of his homosexual friends? The guy ought to make his mind up. Tsk.


Here you go:
Haider got drunk in a gay bar. He seemed to have enjoyed himself - his alcohol promillage was four times the legal limit. In fact, he enjoyed himself so much, that he almost forgot he was supposed to be at his ninety-year old mother's birthday, where his family was waiting for him. So Haider speeded over there, with utter disregard for the lives of his fellow Austrian drivers and pedestrains. Then he crashed himself to death.
English language link.

I did hear that Haider was going to be cremated , but there is a rumour that the crematoria are only a myth.

[Louis VI the Fat]

PanzerJaeger, rather than adressing your post point-by-point, I'll share this:

Austria, of course, had nothing to fear from a European political boycott. Because, as a reward, Haider was supplied cheap oil from Israel's mortal enemies: Arab dictatorships. All Haider had to do was buddy up with his friends, the anti-Semitists and the anti-Americans of this world.

Controversial Austrian politician Joerg Haider has caused a stir by arranging petrol prices some 12% lower than the national average in the province where he is governor.

Mr Haider has declined to specify where he acquired the petrol, but political commentators in Austria are linking the cheap oil purchase with Mr Haider's recent meeting with Libyan President, Muammar Gaddafi.

No wonder Haider was enduringly popular with his province's hard-right electorate. The double whammy of supporting anti-American terrorism and thereby guaranteeing favourable oil prices for his province did the trick.

Of course, it is no wonder that Haider and his close personal friends Gadaffi and Saddam got along so well. Each shared an intense hatred of their mortal enemies Israel and the United States. And based their foreign political goals on the destruction of both states.
I am sorry to report that I do not take kindly to people who fanatically hate America.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Austria's Freedom Party has defended far-right politician Joerg Haider's meeting in Baghdad with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, who used the occasion to urge Europe to distance itself from the United States.

The party said Mr Haider's trip to the Iraqi capital was a "courageous" humanitarian initiative designed to supplement the activities of the Austrian Foreign Ministry, although a ministry spokesman indicated his department had not been fully informed of the mission.

Speaking next to Mr Haider on Tuesday, the Iraqi president launched into a scathing attack on the US - and urged Washington to consider why the terrorist attacks of 11 September had occurred in America, and not in Europe.


Correspondents say the trip appears likely to cause some embarrassment among members of the conservative People's Party, with whom the Freedom Party sits in the Vienna government.


Iraq has also been seeking to improve its ties with the outside world in the face of renewed US military threats. President Hussein said during his meeting with Mr Haider that he hoped to develop relations with Austria, and strengthen contacts between his own ruling Baath party and the Freedom Party. Freedom Party delegates have in the past travelled to Iraq on "fact-finding" missions, returning with reports on the humanitarian situation in the country.

Mr Haider has also personally nurtured ties in the Middle East. Last November he travelled to Iran and Syria, and was recently seen in Vienna with the son of Libya leader Muammar Gaddafi.

Did I mention yet that for years Haider had a close, enduring and 'special relationship' with the homosexual son of Gadaffi?

EMFM: German link for you, that talks about the implications of Haider and outing him as homosexual.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

EMFM: German link for you, that talks about the implications of Haider and outing him as homosexual.

Whether he was a homosexual or not is a matter of some debate, and I thank you for your convincing side of the argument and the link, I'll read it when it's not so late.

At the same time, it doesn't really matter to me whether he was homosexual or not, since his private life is his own business and I don't really care which way people like to go. I'd vote based on merit, but I'm sure someone will continue the debate on the issue.

[JR-]

nb

neither of my comments above indicate any support for haider or his ideas, i would quite frankly be embarassed if my country even came close to electing someone of his ilk.

[Oleander Ardens]

I will never agree with Haiders ideology but painting him as Nazi goes far to far. If he would be have been an Italian or Czech nobody would have gone so far. And many Italians aka Bossi have more extremist policies than he had.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

People should check out Haider's policies on the Wiki page for the Austrian election. They're really not that far-right, whether you agree with him or not.

[Fragony]

I will never agree with Haiders ideology but painting him as Nazi goes far to far.

Not if you make an effort out of dragging them in it isn't, perfectly acceptable to hold that against him. Nazi's are scum, they aren't even right they believe in strong government, they are racist totalitarian idiots that is all. The real right is about equality, screw nazi's and anything that comes even remotily close to being close.