Pritanoi (and Casse) Generals-Innacurate?

[WinsingtonIII]

It's times like these that I really miss the original MTW ability of dismounting your units before battle... I still cannot understand why they got rid of that ability...

[Brennus]

It's times like these that I really miss the original MTW ability of dismounting your units before battle... I still cannot understand why they got rid of that ability...

I can only imagine that CA didn't consider it a particularly common occurence in Antiquity. I can't think of any battles during the EB timerame where cavalry dismounted before battle. (Prove me wrong everyone!).

[athanaric]

I can only imagine that CA didn't consider it a particularly common occurence in Antiquity. I can't think of any battles during the EB timerame where cavalry dismounted before battle. (Prove me wrong everyone!).

IIRC Chinese troops liked to do that - but then again, they were more mounted infantry than actual cavalry. Mounted infantry could easily be represented in game as an nfantry unit with the same movement points as cavalry plus an increased upkeep cost.

[WinsingtonIII]

I can only imagine that CA didn't consider it a particularly common occurence in Antiquity. I can't think of any battles during the EB timerame where cavalry dismounted before battle. (Prove me wrong everyone!).

That could be it, but they never brought it back for M2TW, which seems very strange. If it was easy enough to script into the 1st Medieval, why not put it in the second?

IIRC Chinese troops liked to do that - but then again, they were more mounted infantry than actual cavalry. Mounted infantry could easily be represented in game as an nfantry unit with the same movement points as cavalry plus an increased upkeep cost.

That raises a good question... I wonder if the Pritanoi infantry bodyguards will have the same movement points as cavalry to reflect that they would ride to battle on chariots.

[Foot]

That could be it, but they never brought it back for M2TW, which seems very strange. If it was easy enough to script into the 1st Medieval, why not put it in the second?

Completely different engine. Things don't translate so easily if its not built in from the start.

That raises a good question... I wonder if the Pritanoi infantry bodyguards will have the same movement points as cavalry to reflect that they would ride to battle on chariots.

On the campaign map? That is hardcoded values afaik.

Foot

[WinsingtonIII]

Completely different engine. Things don't translate so easily if its not built in from the start.



On the campaign map? That is hardcoded values afaik.

Foot

Yes, that's true. Still a shame though.

How is campaign map movement points hardcoded? By unit type? As in units classed as cavalry all get the same and units classed as infantry all get the same?

[B-Wing]

How is campaign map movement points hardcoded? By unit type? As in units classed as cavalry all get the same and units classed as infantry all get the same?

I believe that is correct. I guess this begs the question, "what if we labeled certain infantry units as mounted?" I can't help but assume that this would results in some unwanted side effects. If nothing else, it would probably further hamper the AI.

[Moros]

While the thread has been put back alive again. Just wanted to mention that Cassius Dio mentions them in the british invasion of 43 AD as well and if I'm not mistaken they are mentioned by tacitus in his biography of agricola too. So that's another two quotes.

[Taliferno]

I believe that is correct. I guess this begs the question, "what if we labeled certain infantry units as mounted?" I can't help but assume that this would results in some unwanted side effects. If nothing else, it would probably further hamper the AI.

The most obvious side effect would be spear units getting a bonus against this special unit

[WinsingtonIII]

I believe that is correct. I guess this begs the question, "what if we labeled certain infantry units as mounted?" I can't help but assume that this would results in some unwanted side effects. If nothing else, it would probably further hamper the AI.

Yeah, I believe the battle AI treats units differently depending on how they are classified, so it would attempt to use the infantry unit as cavalry on the battlefield.

[vartan]

It's times like these that I really miss the original MTW ability of dismounting your units before battle... I still cannot understand why they got rid of that ability...

I didn't know CA had created a game that allowed the dismounting of chariot regiments. They would shock and awe before dismounting as heavy inf. phalanx, at least during the Iron Age in the Near East (early 1st mill. BC). The dismounting feature was during deployment or could it be used real-time?

I can only imagine that CA didn't consider it a particularly common occurence in Antiquity. I can't think of any battles during the EB timerame where cavalry dismounted before battle. (Prove me wrong everyone!).

I can't think of any myself, but chariots (if you want to call them cavalry) did dismount and fight in phalanx (using the term generously here) in the Ancient Near East from the 13th to 7th centuries BC (cavalry a la EB wasn't really a war-player until the Assyrian utilization of horses as war animals). I always wondered if chariot regiments would still dismount and fight together as heavy inf. in the EB timeframe as they did during the Iron Age as I just mentioned. I suppose it wouldn't be as significant since cavalry had by then long replaced the expensive and clumsy chariots.

[mountaingoat]

would take a guess and say that all cavalry based military units would be dismounted during sieges ... though how many times did a cavalry based unit end up on the field during a siege (attacking) back then ? would it be more common that we might believe?

i felt that this was one of the major reasons dismounting was an option in MTW (from a gaming point of view) .. the fact that you could have many mounted knights or cavalry in general during a siege.

and talking about this just makes me want to play MTW XXL .. but this game will not run on with my series 8x nvidia card .. >=(
lol

[Ludens]

The dismounting feature was during deployment or could it be used real-time?

Only during deployment, and then certain cavalry types could only be dismounted for siege battles. This was to indicate that equestrian nobility preferred to fight on horseback, unless circumstances really did not favour cavalry. A pity, since dismounted feudal knights were among the strongest infantry you could get early on.

[WinsingtonIII]

I didn't know CA had created a game that allowed the dismounting of chariot regiments. They would shock and awe before dismounting as heavy inf. phalanx, at least during the Iron Age in the Near East (early 1st mill. BC). The dismounting feature was during deployment or could it be used real-time?

Well, this was Medieval I, so I don't recall any chariots present in that game, but you could dismount regular cavalry. Though, as Ludens said, you were limited by the battle type and only during deployment.

If Empire ever had enough modding tools to change the era, then you could have a mod with the dismounting of cavalry during the actual battle, but I'm not sure if the dismounted cavalry can move around when they are dismounted. I don't remember exactly how dragoons work in that game.

[vartan]

Well, this was Medieval I, so I don't recall any chariots present in that game, but you could dismount regular cavalry. Though, as Ludens said, you were limited by the battle type and only during deployment.

I'm sorry, I meant to say that I hadn't realised that CA had made a game in which cavalry* (or some cavalry) could dismount (excluding Empire and Napoleon).

If Empire ever had enough modding tools to change the era, then you could have a mod with the dismounting of cavalry during the actual battle, but I'm not sure if the dismounted cavalry can move around when they are dismounted. I don't remember exactly how dragoons work in that game.

I was thinking the same thing, having seen the newer games, though admittedly the Empire engine is obsolete now with the release of Napoleon. The performance optimization on the latter seems improved compared to the former (correct me if I'm wrong, it just seems so).

[Password]

If Empire ever had enough modding tools to change the era, then you could have a mod with the dismounting of cavalry during the actual battle, but I'm not sure if the dismounted cavalry can move around when they are dismounted. I don't remember exactly how dragoons work in that game.

I believe you could move the dismounted unit when they were dismounted and use them as regular line infantry however the horses would stand immobile wherever left, though I don't remember if the horses could be killed without riders and what happened if there were more riders/horses when remounting or if you could even remount at all.

[WinsingtonIII]

I believe you could move the dismounted unit when they were dismounted and use them as regular line infantry however the horses would stand immobile wherever left, though I don't remember if the horses could be killed without riders and what happened if there were more riders/horses when remounting or if you could even remount at all.

Well, you can definitely remount, I've done that, but I'm not sure what happens if you lose a horse and the man is still alive. I think I've seen the horses get killed when dismounted, and then had the men remount, and there wasn't a problem, so I'm assuming that when you lose a horse, you lose the man as well.