Unions: Where did the U.S.A. go wrong?

[Crazed Rabbit]

http://wakeupwalmart.com/facts/antiworker.html
http://www.mindfully.org/Industry/20...ord16feb04.htm
http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archive..._unionization/

Then there is first hand experience from working at Walmart, where they even try to con people into using their own special 'lawfirm' to take up law suits against them (lol?) opposed to real representation from a Union, and other measures. Then there are experiences from others, including Americans which have relayed stories of this happening to them, and the fact is it pretty much 'public knowledge' says a lot.

First hand experience? I didn't read anything there.

You said;

You actually get fired from your job if you join a trade union, for example, if you are an Walmart employee. Many corporations and companies have this policy.

and did not provide any examples of that. The links showed only that WalMart closed one store after 51% of employees signed union cards - not even 51% of employees actually voting for a union - and ending a department after one place in Texas unionized. That's not being fired - that's the jobs not existing anymore. Walmart didn't hire anyone to take the place of the fired employees.

Nor did you provide one iota of evidence indicating any other corporation in the US did anything like what you allege.

removed; edited by Cleggy in original Thought not.

Have you been able to provide any evidence of what you claim? Do you have any real idea of the union situation in the US? Or do you just get neat little talking points and links from your favorite socialist blogs, then run and parrot them without any comprehension or experience in what you're talking about? Have you ever been able to competently respond to my arguments? Or do you just ignore the facts that invalidate your farcical arguments?

I did that because of statements like the one you just made. I did that because you clearly have no grasp of history.

You have no grasp of the debate.

Did I say business did not act cruelly 100 years ago?

This is so astonishingly naive it blows my mind. Corporations have killed to keep people from unionizing, for God's sake.

Do you think whatever a company does is good business? Companies are made of people, and can be just as stupid as them. Just because a company has done something DOES NOT MEAN IT'S SMART.

Maybe this is the socialists problem. They see a company be immoral, and they assume that what they do is more profitable, so they blame the evils of capitalism for incentivizing companies to do it instead of the human stupidity of the companies.

I mean, come on. If you didn't know that it was less than a century ago that companies were literally gunning people down in the streets rather than pay them a living wage in this very country, then you really haven't examined the history behind my argument at all.

I never said anything that contradicts this. Perhaps you should understand what I'm saying. Yes, companies were cruel, in terms of conditions, wages, and responses to strikes. THAT STILL DOESN'T MAKE IT GOOD BUSINESS.

Look at how Ford began paying $5 a day to employees, an unheard-of high wage at the time, and became more profitable.

And if you want to talk about what companies did 100 years ago, you should remember that unions aren't needed now for the reasons they were then.

CR