Originally Posted by Brenus
Same here, we said no
Posters are informed that Fragony's opinion on this matter is to be ignored
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Same here, we said no
Posters are informed that Fragony's opinion on this matter is to be ignored
Last edited by Louis VI the Fat; 08-31-2010 at 19:50. Reason: Abuse of power to get them ignored again, just to rub it in a bit...
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
I get ignored all the damn time. Roll with it.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Louis did you just trade places with Seamus? Since when did you wield power in the backroom anyway?
- Tellos Athenaios
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Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Or in Sarkosy's case, shorter...
Moral narcissism in action. Reminds me of US foreign policy, lately.So, pop to France for 3 months and get home for not just free but some cash too...
Did the French not realise that this is part of the wonderful EU they're hell bent on making?
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
And all this western ngo's in Serbia, and other eastern countries i presume, say how Romas are discriminated and how they should be treated by western standards. Right, expel them all I say.
Kidding aside, they are a huge problem because it's impossible to assimilate them, and by that I don't mean into a particular nation but into a western culture. They follow their own rules and completely ignore local laws.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
- Tellos Athenaios
CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread
“ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Well, at least somebody asked for your opinions, nobody bothered to ask ours...
Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy
Ja mata, TosaInu
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Evil FrenchSame here, we said no
Posters are informed that Fragony's opinion on this matter is to be ignored
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
The Belgian constitution does not allow for a referendum.
No Belgian is remotely interested in voting for any of his nine governments, none with any clear competence, but he is obliged to by law: voting is compulsory. Then when a Belgian does want to cast a vote, about a subject he does understands and cares about, he is disallowed to by law.
Belgium, quality entertainment! Europe's best running gag.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
So trueThe Belgian constitution does not allow for a referendum.
No Belgian is remotely interested in voting for any of his nine governments, none with any clear competence, but he is obliged to by law: voting is compulsory. Then when a Belgian does want to cast a vote, about a subject he does understands and cares about, he is disallowed to by law.
Belgium, quality entertainment! Europe's best running gag.
Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy
Ja mata, TosaInu
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
No, prosecuting people for breaking the law is ok, imprisoning and then deporting them is even ok, deporting them because you don't like them is not ok.
It hasn't been ok since Aethelred the Unready tried to innitiate a pogrom against the "Danes" in 1002 AD.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
lol, says more about us than it does about bush:The Belgian constitution does not allow for a referendum.
No Belgian is remotely interested in voting for any of his nine governments, none with any clear competence, but he is obliged to by law: voting is compulsory. Then when a Belgian does want to cast a vote, about a subject he does understands and cares about, he is disallowed to by law.
Belgium, quality entertainment! Europe's best running gag.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-minister.html
roflmao!“He didn’t know or recognise Guy, whose advice he listened to with considerable astonishment,” Mr Blair writes. “He then turned to me and whispered, ‘Who is this guy?’ ‘He is the prime minister of Belgium,’ I said.
“Belgium? George said, clearly aghast at the possible full extent of his stupidity. ‘Belgium is not part of the G8’.”
Mr Blair explained to Mr Bush that Mr Verhofstadt was there as “president of Europe”. Belgium held the presidency of the EU council at the time.
Mr Bush responded: “You got the Belgians running Europe?” before shaking his head, “now aghast at our stupidity”, Mr Blair writes.
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Probably the most astute thing he's ever done.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
This is a tricky issue to say the least, and it's been interesting to read the posts here. I'm inclined to say that the Roma are now Europe's problem, rather than a Romanian issue.
As far as my 2 cents go, Sarmatian's point is key: The Roma are a problem because their way of life at least appear completely at odds with the settled populations of the countries they travel to/in. They also don't want to or can't be assimilated, presumably because they consider their way of life of cultural significance to themselves, but also because there is (for one or many reasons) not much sympathy from the settled populations and no easy path to economic/social integration (not much need for illiterate and unskilled migrant labour these days...).
I'm pretty sure there are "travelers" (there are so many different groups/names/types) in the UK who don't cause a massive disruption, either by owning land or otherwise or getting agreement from police/local authorities. Thing is, even when approached some places/people are quite likely to say "no thank you" to someone setting up a travellers' camp on bought land. I have no idea how travelers sustain their livelihoods.
Possibly the worst aspect of this is that the Roma live in abject poverty and ignorance, with little or no schooling for their kids -never mind health care. How much of this is by cause of circumstance or concscious choice?
No one should expect to get something for nothing, but you can't force people to give up a way of life either. Especially if you still expect/want to be seen as the enlightened corner of the world...
Last edited by al Roumi; 09-01-2010 at 15:35.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
By whom, roma's? Lefties? Do I really have to care about the opinion of useless eastern-euro trash or be-it-seventies-ultra-orthodoxists? I don't think so.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
No, by all means, you can continue to talk
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Reminds me of one of his prior posts:So true
http://zapatopi.net/belgium/
Brilliant!
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
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Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Got a garden? Invite them over and exchange some recepies or stop being the the smug morally superior richboy from a 100% white neighbourhood with one kebab-shop where nobody ever got robbed.No, by all means, you can continue to talk
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
LOL.
now, in seriousness, is "kick them out" as developed a position as you'd care to present on this issue?
I don't think my initial post says anything that should provoke/offend you. I just discussed some of the underlying issues and tried to indicate that simply kicking the Roma out of western european countries is not much of a mid or long term solution.
Last edited by al Roumi; 09-01-2010 at 17:14.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
U mad?
Well anyway, I think we should create a Roma homeland, somewhere in Siberia.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Is there any obligation we have?
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
stalin was quite keen on that too. :D
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Well, afaik, as european citizens the Roma can't be kept wherever you kick them too. As raised above, what is to stop them returning to France after repatriation and receiving their payout? How effective do you judge a policy of removal/repatriation to be when the migrants are legally entitled to move around the EU as they please?
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
They are not, in Romania's case. I believe, they are not full entitled members.
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Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
True, there are some restrictions with Romanian and Bulgarian citizens, meaning they aren't given full rights like other members but eventually they will be given (5,10,20... years). What then? Their culture is simply incompatible with western culture and most of them will never be able to assimilate.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
hmmm, we should have thought about this before we engaged in the massive circile-jerk that is ever-deeper-union.
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
The half-Roma I live with has toldme that her Romany Gypsy mother was keen for her to have at least basic schooling, but her showman "Traveller" father considered it useless.
She's an English Roma but her opinion of modern "travellers" in Britain and elsewhere is very very low.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
I hope her mother got her way! Tragically, some won't have.
:) I understand (from my mother who is an ESOL teacher for state-school kids in my parents' county) that the different types of travellers are indeed very particular about their differences, not to mention rude about each other.
I was just googling trying to find some list of different traveller groups and came accross this, which is quite surprising:
http://www.travellerstimes.org.uk/website/Home.htm
It's funded by the Dept for Children, Schools and Families. Leads me to wonder though how long it will survice with the Big Society...
While browsing that site, I came acrross a pdf "guide to gypsies and travellers" which, providing you are interested in more than what size boot to wear when "kicking them out", should be interesting. Apparently, half of gypsies/travellers in the Uk live in houses (that don't have wheels) and don't have psycic powers. Also, on page 13 there is an explanation for why Wayne Rooney is so quarrelsome and likes bright colours.
Last edited by al Roumi; 09-03-2010 at 13:53.
Re: Is Sarkosy wrong to try and repatriate the Roma, and should we be sympathetic of
Not long, I hope. Unlike the vast numbers of waves of immigrants that have come to the UK over the last thousand years or so and have integrated and enriched our society, as a group this lot haven't.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
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