What should the voting age be?

**Rhyfelwyr** · 11-04-2010, 00:09

Originally Posted by HoreTore

I think you're a little to taken by the "noble savage"-myth. While of course smaller in the scale, the Saami did try armed rebellion, and even in the 70's there was a real danger of a civil war(terrorist style) up north when the dam was built in Alta. And being under norway wasn't seen as a bad thing for the saami? Ask the guys we cut the testicles off of(no more desecration of our pure christian young), they *might* disagree....

Still, the situation with the Sami seems more akin to that of the native Americans. Kind of reminds me how Meth seems to have no problem with British or Canadian rule as such, so long as his treaty rights are respected. Such societies have a different view of sovereignty.

Originally Posted by HoreTore

The opinion of the three people plus one dog living in Finnmark isn't overruled by those living in Oslo, yet we still call our system of government a democracy, don't we?

EDIT: And since when did "Democracy" start meaning "rule of the majority"? I was under the impression that it meant "rule of the people".... And "the people" means 100% of the people, doesn't it?

Aye, it does mean rule of the people, and so it only works when there is a single 'people that have a large degree of common concerns/interests, hence the importance of being a nation-state for any democracy. If the Basques argue they are a separate 'people' alongside another in the same political system, then democracy can only represent the majority 'people'.

**gaelic cowboy** · 11-04-2010, 00:55

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Still, the situation with the Sami seems more akin to that of the native Americans. Kind of reminds me how Meth seems to have no problem with British or Canadian rule as such, so long as his treaty rights are respected. Such societies have a different view of sovereignty.

That would have been the situation here till the reformation or maybe a bit after even, once the English decided they had to extinguish Gaelic culture and impose things like there own idea of inheritance etc they sowed a seed that needed careful watching.

No serious effort was made at conversion so the disenfranchised were left where they were, if you do that you have to be prepared to hold that nettle forever.

**HoreTore** · 11-04-2010, 07:32

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Aye, it does mean rule of the people, and so it only works when there is a single 'people that have a large degree of common concerns/interests, hence the importance of being a nation-state for any democracy. If the Basques argue they are a separate 'people' alongside another in the same political system, then democracy can only represent the majority 'people'.

Are you saying that democracy cannot work for a diverse country like the US?

Or are you saying that the conservative christians in Alabama have the same interests and concerns as the african-american law student in Boston?

**Skullheadhq** · 11-04-2010, 09:55

And, by the way, I voted 16 as voting age, because a 16 year old who knows what he's voting on is better than an adult who just votes for the one with the nicest name.
Still, restricted Platoist-like, intelligence based suffrage is the best and the state has nothing to do with 'being heard'.

**rory_20_uk** · 11-04-2010, 12:21

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Are you saying that democracy cannot work for a diverse country like the US?

Or are you saying that the conservative christians in Alabama have the same interests and concerns as the african-american law student in Boston?

The USA has a large armed forces which has been used against its own citizens when required when the voices wanting to be heard were not wanting the "right" things.

There are probably forces which would pull the USA apart, but there are stronger one holding it together.

**Skullheadhq** · 11-04-2010, 12:56

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Are you saying that democracy cannot work for a diverse country like the US?

**HoreTore** · 11-04-2010, 16:17

Originally Posted by Skullheadhq

Ah yes, I forgot. There has never been civil war between Brit against Brit or Norwegian against Norwegian.

Sorry then, move along here....

An interesting thing to note, however, is that the wounds from the civil war have been healed, and it did so within a democracy, even one where one part was smaller than the other.....

Hm.

**rory_20_uk** · 11-04-2010, 16:24

Yeah, healed. The South wasn't beaten to sue for peace and aren't at all upset by it.

A "democracy" where the states can't vote to leave even if they want to as if that were to happen habeus corpus would be revoked and the state invaded.

**HoreTore** · 11-04-2010, 16:46

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Yeah, healed. The South wasn't beaten to sue for peace and aren't at all upset by it.

A "democracy" where the states can't vote to leave even if they want to as if that were to happen habeus corpus would be revoked and the state invaded.

As far as I know, the people living in the states feel quite included in America.

I haven't heard of any recent suggestions(well, any serious ones) by the south to secede, so obviously they can't feel like they did in the 1860's anymore.

**Skullheadhq** · 11-04-2010, 17:48

Naw...

Georgia
On April 1, 2009, the Georgia State Senate passed a resolution 43-1 that affirmed the right of states to nullify federal laws. The resolution also included the assertion that if Congress took certain steps, including restricting firearms or ammunition, the United States government would cease to exist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secessi..._United_States