NRA is too radical

[Brenus]

So, the streets of the US are so unsafe that you need to carry a small firearm (or a tank for shopping).
Don’t bother about a supposed will from the Federal Government to take you Freedom away. It is already done.
If you can’t wander in the streets without a full gear and back-up, well, I understand why Bush believed and still believes that the Iraqis are better now that before.

So in fact, all the mobs and gangsters can have all the weapons they are ready to pay for?
Guys, awake, they will win… And they will be ready, not you… They will not hesitate to shoot to innocent by passers… You will…
And when the police will arrive, they won’t no the bad from the goods, and with all theses bullets flying over…

One think scared me: I was at the Airport when a stupid man drove his car in, hoping blowing-up some people. The reaction was to send untrained Police officers armed with submachine gun. I hope without bullets in the magazine because I can’t imagine what effect would be if a terrorist started to shoot to people. My guess is the Police Force would have kill more innocent than the terrorist.
And even if the terrorist just pretend to have a gun…

Ok, you have your weapon. In the shop centre, hoops, bullets start to fly. Because you are courageous, you go and you see several people shooting at each others and, well, because you have now your weapon in hand, both side not knowing (at least one) in which camp you are shoot at you. To whom you answer?

[PanzerJaeger]

So, the streets of the US are so unsafe that you need to carry a small firearm (or a tank for shopping).

Oh boy. This is a perfect example of the lack of understanding I was talking about.

So in fact, all the mobs and gangsters can have all the weapons they are ready to pay for?
Guys, awake, they will win… And they will be ready, not you… They will not hesitate to shoot to innocent by passers… You will…
And when the police will arrive, they won’t no the bad from the goods, and with all theses bullets flying over…

One think scared me: I was at the Airport when a stupid man drove his car in, hoping blowing-up some people. The reaction was to send untrained Police officers armed with submachine gun. I hope without bullets in the magazine because I can’t imagine what effect would be if a terrorist started to shoot to people. My guess is the Police Force would have kill more innocent than the terrorist.
And even if the terrorist just pretend to have a gun…

Ok, you have your weapon. In the shop centre, hoops, bullets start to fly. Because you are courageous, you go and you see several people shooting at each others and, well, because you have now your weapon in hand, both side not knowing (at least one) in which camp you are shoot at you. To whom you answer?

To carry a weapon in public, every state (IIRC) requires a permit. Part of obtaining that permit is attending and passing a class on proper firearms handling and appropriate usage.

In said classes, people are taught that firearm use is only acceptable as a last resort when the operator's life or the life of another is clearly in danger. They are taught that one should only draw and discharge one's weapon when every other avenue has been rendered unacceptable - including calling the police, giving up personal property, and fleeing. Such instructions preclude jumping into a firefight, guns ablaze.

I too must ask whether you have ever been to the United States. Surely just a few days in country would eliminate such Wild West fantasies.

[TinCow]

I used to be a big control control advocate, but changed my mind when I realized that the situation is a Pandora's Box. Like it or not, guns are already everywhere in the US. It's impossible to get rid of them, so pointless to even have the argument. What can be done is to place proper checks on purchasing weapons so that people cannot purchase them when they are mentally ill or in a temporary rage. The rules implementing those checks are very weak in some states, but they can be improved. Banning them outright is just pointless.

As for the assault weapon thing... no one commits crimes with those things. The issue is handguns, pure and simple.

[rory_20_uk]

It sounds like you are in favour of control, but view that banning is not realistic. I think that there are further refinements that should be made in terms of regulating storage and implimenting "smart" features that are coming into all other walks of life but remain firmly out of guns.

[Brenus]

“Nice dystopian fantasy. Have you ever been to the US?”
Yes I did.
And I don’t think you need a weapon in the US streets…you, guys, are the ones who think so.

“Oh boy. This is a perfect example of the lack of understanding I was talking about.” Just reading what is posted… Girl alone in the street needs a gun, shoot to people walking on my garden, right to have a nuclear bomb, right to have minefields, right to defend against my neighbours’ nuclear bomb…

“In said classes, people are taught that firearm use is only acceptable as a last resort when the operator's life or the life of another is clearly in danger”: Yeah, and in classes people are taught to be polite, no swearing, to be respectful of the elders and to never hit a woman. And we all obey the rules…

Stop kidding, please:
I was in the Army. And I know what is this strange feeling to have weapons in your hand. The power of Death and Life, the fear mixed with “Respect” when you arrived in a village during a night exercise, faces blackened, dirty, smelly but with your Assault Rifle…
Do you ever, ever, experiment this Power when an Armoured Division deployed in an open plain, with the ground shacking under your APC’s caterpillars.
We speak here not of freedom, and the respect of the Constitution…
We speak of the NRA greed and money in one side.
And we speak of weapons on the other. I like weapon. I like to carry weapon. I like to use weapons. I use a lot of them, from missile (Milan) to 20 mm canon, gun, machine guns, riffle assault rifles, grenade (all of them), mines, learned how to blow-up bridges, buildings, railways. I used flamethrower (rule is to use it only on obstacle, not on human, yeah right), learned how to strangle people, knife them in the back etc. I was a trained soldier…

So, you can tell me you want to have weapons. I understand the feeling.

But, to pretend it is to defend your rights that no body want to take from you, please…
Have more faith in your Army and Soldiers…
In France the last Coup failed because the soldiers and most of the Hierarchy refused to follow…

In allowing weapons for all, you in fact increase the danger on you freedom. You give power to individual the right to shoot who they want (even after the classes) when they want.
Those who read me know I am a leftist, a combat one. I have no past of criminality; even I am a “veteran”.
So if I was a US citizen, a part the left side, I am a perfect citizen.
So I would have the right to have weapons.
So I would be able to create a group (armed) that is more a threat for you than a Federal imaginary will to take your freedom away…

In a pure Robert Heinlein "Starship Troopers" books (not movie, please) fashion...

And this is true for all political and religious groups, extremist or not…
Free access to weapons is the door from simple accidents to organised plots (private militias to mobsters).

[drone]

In allowing weapons for all, you in fact increase the danger on you freedom. You give power to individual the right to shoot who they want (even after the classes) when they want.

No, we give the power to the individual the ability to shoot who they want. There is no right to taking another life. The actions you take with your firearm will be judged based on the circumstances and the laws of the locality.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Which is like telling a little innocent girl: “Here, you see this? That is an apple. It tastes great. Don't eat it.”

[PanzerJaeger]

Yeah, and in classes people are taught to be polite, no swearing, to be respectful of the elders and to never hit a woman. And we all obey the rules

Obviously the classes and/or common sense are paying off. In 2007, in a nation of 302 million people, there were 613 fatal firearms accidents. Again, it seems that these hypotheticals of people shooting their friends in a drunken stupor and jumping into random firefights and shooting innocents or being shot themselves are very rare.

Stop kidding, please:
I was in the Army. And I know what is this strange feeling to have weapons in your hand. The power of Death and Life, the fear mixed with “Respect” when you arrived in a village during a night exercise, faces blackened, dirty, smelly but with your Assault Rifle…
Do you ever, ever, experiment this Power when an Armoured Division deployed in an open plain, with the ground shacking under your APC’s caterpillars.

Just because you experienced some sort of weird power trip while handling weaponry does not mean that it is a common occurrence.

Which is like telling a little innocent girl: “Here, you see this? That is an apple. It tastes great. Don't eat it.”

Lol, what?

Which isn't the case at all. The law/policy is based around the fact that people who want to enjoy guns for whatever it is about guns that fascinates them can do so on, say, a shooting range or a hunt, and that banning guns outside of that use improves the conditions for all. Funnily enough, it works.

The stats say differently. Gun restrictions/bans here in the States and in Europe have had no noticeable positive effect on violence and public safety. It could even be argued that in some places they had a negative one.

[Louis VI the Fat]

“Nice dystopian fantasy. Have you ever been to the US?”

“Oh boy. This is a perfect example of the lack of understanding I was talking about.

Don't worry. They all looked at me funny too, when I asked about nuclear arms to defend against government tyranny. They see things in a different light, the gun debate runs along different lines.