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  1. #1
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Old Eric foresaw the problems with runaway socialism, so he's ok with me.
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  2. #2
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Socialism?

    This is like the Parental Advisory beeps the yanks put in their gangstah rap songs. And I don't know about you, but I wouldn't put consvative, christian housewives in the socialist category...
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  3. #3
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Reference to drugs in a song? Blank it out. Nigger? Blank it out.

    A song called Russian Roulette by Rhianna where at the end we hear a gunshot and a body falling to the floor? Perfectly fine (BTW, I really like that song).

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    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    They censured Shakespeare didn't they?

    " Art made tongue-tied by authority. "
    -William Shakespeare, Sonnet 66
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  5. #5
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Old Eric foresaw the problems with runaway socialism authoritarianism, so he's ok with me.
    fixed.

    Eric was so left wing he joined the damn POUM (anarchist) militia in Spain. He was anti totalitarian and staunchly a lefty on economic and social policy.
    Last edited by al Roumi; 01-07-2011 at 11:55.

  6. #6
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Pathetic Yanks.

    Bunch of sad little Rosbifs.

    A-cultured Anglosaxons.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
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  7. #7
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Books are re-translated all of the time. They must be, because the language becomes incomprehensible as time passes. Shakespeare is unreadable, Chaucer might as well have been Icelandic.

    The connotations of words change. Their register changes. Etc. The polite words 'negro' or 'coloured' of only a few decades ago are pejorative now. One would have to re-translate the respectful 'coloured' of the civil rights movement into the closest modern equivalent of 'Black', or run the risk of making the user of the word sound like those he opossed, a social conservatist.

    'Nigger' in Mark Twain's era was offensive. There was more social acceptance of the word back then, but it was nevertheless considered an offensive word. One would not have to re-translate it into a modern equivalent. A conclusion which has the nasty side effect of rendering everything I've written thus far in this post moot and pointless. Which in turn serves me right for not thinking ahead when posting.

    Twain deliberatly tries to capture the speech of particular regions in particular eras, down to class, race and gender. It would be a shame if this artistic quality of his work would be lost in a re-translation. Especially when so much is easily understood by the reader, or, if not, has the even bigger benefit of teaching the reader the history of the age.

    Still I would not oppose the swapping of the n-word with something slightly less offensive for educational purposes, or even for popular editions. If twelve year olds are confronted with the n-word in the classroom, it will dominate thought and discussion so much that more is lost than gained. Also, should one want to confront a twelve year old black kid with it in the first place? The offensive descriptions in the post above - as those persevering with my ramblings find out here - serve a literary and rhetoric purpose: to serve as an example. To show that one may rationally realise full well they serve a literary purpose, but the confrontation with them still makes one uncomfortable


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    I am decidedly bored by these manichean left-right worldviews dominating so many threads. 'It's bad, so it belongs to 'the other camp''.

    Yawn...
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  8. #8
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    We do get ourselves in such a muddle about what to call... erm... people who we'd do a sickle cell blood test on.

    White, whitey, European, Caucasian are all fine for my skin colour.I've never been to the Caucasus but that doesn't appear to matter.

    But black, nigger, coloured, African? Not only does it depend on the era one is in, but also one's own race (black people can use nigger of course...)

    Then there's the lot in the middle. The half-cast, oh sorry mixed race. Whoops MEO - multiethnic origin. And how pale before one stops being black and becomes MEO? And how pale before a MEO becomes white?

    Nigger is offensive, but the others it seems that one has to be careful as there is something wrong with being of darker skin.

    Disclaimer: my WIFE is mixed race. Except she says she's black. How you can have Spanish and Chinese ancestry as well as African and not be mixed race beats me. My son is mixed race for obvious reasons except he appears "white" - easily paler than those from the South of Europe.

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  9. #9
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    I am decidedly bored by these manichean left-right worldviews dominating so many threads. 'It's bad, so it belongs to 'the other camp''.

    Yawn...
    Fais do do, Louis mon petit frere
    Fais do do, t'auras du lolo.

  10. #10
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    Fais do do, Louis mon petit frere
    Fais do do, t'auras du lolo.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  11. #11
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    I think some of you are missing the point. The word was offensive then, and is offensive now. But Mark Twain did this deliberately to highlight the character of Jim against the rest of the white trash in the book. IA is right, this is a whitewashing of a critically satirical book. By removing the n-word, the publisher is attempting to clean up the past.

    The word has nothing to do with Twain, it has everything to do with the story and point he is trying to get across. No point in teaching the book if it gets neutered, which may very well be the end-goal of the publisher.

    I hear they are also taking out "Injun" as well. Someone on Slashdot said it best, there isn't an editor alive qualified to touch Samuel Clemens' work.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    Old Eric foresaw the problems with runaway socialism authoritarianism, so he's ok with me.
    fixed.
    Noooo, you didn't fix it! It's a very important point that runaway ideologies become authoritarian. I like capitalism and egalitarianism, but I should admit that the runaway versions of them are bad...WITHOUT trying to rebrand them.

    I think this kind of editing is appropriate for use in schools - imagine being the only black kid in your class which was reading Huck Finn and coming across that word over 250 times during the book. Editing such as this allows children and young people to be educated about Twain whilst not feeling uncomfortable.
    What happens when you imagine it?

  13. #13
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    if they think it is damaging to children...then just take it off the school curriculum...... and even that is a dumb idea.
    changing a book to make it PC is a travesty.
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