Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Athenai

**jirisys** · 01-31-2011, 04:39

Originally Posted by jirisys

I PROPOSE we must hire some pirates (Lemboi) either in Rhodos or Athenai, so we can, first, capture Mytilene and also make a hybrid assault on Sinope when it is captured since we wouldn't be able to arrive in time.

Originally Posted by Populus Romanus

We should let the Army of Sparta and the Army of the Alliance to march through our lands in order to engage the spread out Makedonians and capture the vulnerable Demetrias. And how exactly will we be able to take Mytilene if we disbanded our navy? We must levy a new one.

I have everything covered

Edit:

I PROPOSE the author should not allow any member of sparta to propose in OUR assembly and vice-versa, by putting their names on the first post.

~Jirisys ()

**diomede** · 01-31-2011, 04:54

Originally Posted by jirisys

I have everything covered

Edit:

I PROPOSE the author should not allow any member of sparta to propose in OUR assembly and vice-versa, by putting their names on the first post.

~Jirisys ()

Probably a good idea. I'll just spy, er, I mean browse this forum, like you are over there. :P
(I do hang out here a bit though, mainly post there though to be fair)

**jirisys** · 01-31-2011, 04:55

Yeah, but you shouldn't deceive the assembly by being trying to push the spartan agenda here

~Jirisys (I don't mind spying though...)

**Populus Romanus** · 01-31-2011, 05:15

But why is it a bad idea to levy a fleet? A fleet is crucial to the success of the Alliance. We need to have a fleet to capture Mitylene, save Sinope, and there is no way we can allow the Makedonians to control the sea.

You can't kill me! THIS IS SPARTA! I grab your blade with my bare hands and twist it backwards to make it useless! (Plus, I am just as much an Orgah as a Centerite, albiet a lower postcount. Which means that I both Athenian and Spartan. Is that possible? No. In that case, I am really a Rhodian, secretly spying on you both!) And you're one to talk, after you were spying on us Spartans. You are lucky we did not kick you into the Garbage Disposal Of Death. Muwahahaha!

**jirisys** · 01-31-2011, 05:18

Originally Posted by Populus Romanus

But why is it a bad idea to levy a fleet? A fleet is crucial to the success of the Alliance.

You can't kill me! THIS IS SPARTA! I grab your blade with my bare hands and twist it backwards to make it useless! (Plus, I am just as much an Orgah as a Centerite, albiet a lower postcount.)

And you're one to talk, after you were spying on us Spartans. You are lucky we did not kick you into the Garbage Disposal Of Death. Muwahahaha!

I proposed to hire some pirates, why can't anybody see that???

Yeah, I don't mind you coming here and spying, but don't propose legislation when you pledged alliegance to sparta already...

~Jirisys (You like Star Wars eh?

)

**Hotseat_User** · 01-31-2011, 11:19

zhis will be good i guess. Nice idea Molin!

I propose: Pay (move_char...) some pirates to ship a small athenian skirimish-force to Lesbos. If these men fight like true hellenes and the Myrthilenes(sp?) are of true hellen blood too, they will have sucess.

Further besiege Chalkis 'till they surrender and let the garrision walk home in peace so we can show our democratic mercy.

And: let the Strategos defend the vulnerable borders (north attika and Thermyphilae(sp?)) against makedon forces.

Civillian H_U has spoken

**jirisys** · 01-31-2011, 20:37

Originally Posted by jirisys

I PROPOSE we must levy some more hoplites, from Athens, so that it may defend her and/or help the besiegers.
I PROPOSE we must make the Makedonian army to attack us, so whe have the upper hand in defense, and destroy their army and make their city capitulate.
I PROPOSE we must hire some pirates (Lemboi) either in Rhodos or Athenai, so we can, first, capture Mytilene and also make a hybrid assault on Sinope when it is captured since we wouldn't be able to arrive in time.
I PROPOSE, since the spartans have been so understanding, we must allow them to traverse to Attike, but only the Ally army and only to defend Athenai (as an excuse so we have more men for the siege and consequent invasions).
I PROPOSE we must acquire trade rights with the Epeirotai, and propose a ceasefire with Basileion ton Pontos, so that they do not imagine our intentions.
I PROPOSE we must ask Moolinaargh not to reveal our secret objectives in the Spartan assembly and vice-versa

.

Originally Posted by jirisys

I meant that we should liberate it from the pontic people, since we wouldn't be able to arrive in time before it fell to pontic hands.

~Jirisys ()

I already said what everything is proposing... I'm guessing that counts as agreeing (say Civilian H_U said the same thing I did, Vaginacles too) besides, there's no change in my proposals and his...

Also clarifying, no army besides the athenian army can traverse Attike, I proposed a freer approach, but still with heavy restrictions.

~Jirisys (Please do an update soon, and clarify if you are proposing and what, Civilian H_U's proposal wasn't clear at first)

**Molinaargh** · 01-31-2011, 23:05

The council session for 270BC is now over. An update will be made soon.

Thanks for your participation, guys!

**Vaginacles** · 02-01-2011, 00:34

You said we must make the macedonians attack us, which implies that we let them attack our besieging army, which i am against. We cannot FORCE macedonia into battle unless we play the role of the attacker. We must not forget that macedonia controls the seas and can reinforce euboea at any time, thus the sooner we take the city, the better it is for the safety of Athens. Macedonia may decide to take advantage of our poorly garrisoned polis and may plan to attack Athens while our army is off campaigning, this is clearly unfavorable.

Also, i disagree with allowing the spartans to enter Attica to defend us, it is better if they engage in an offensive war outside of attica, to spare our fields from devastation and prevent a depletion of our grain reserves. No the allied army must not enter Attica and defend, they must do what spartans do best and fight offensively in Thessaly. That is what is best for Athens.

As for your proposal to hire pirates for the invasion of Myile, what will become of them afterwards? are we to let them free to harrass merchant vessels that carry our goods to and fro the Agean? Or should we break the word of friends and enslave them, and commandeer their vessals? No, Jirisy, we cannot afford to ally ourselves with brigands and outlaws, not if you want Athen's honor to remain intacted after this ordeal. Would you have the Spartans call us Brigands and outlaws because we were too weak to build our own Triremes, having to rely on scum to do what our forefathers were masters of?

**Molinaargh** · 02-01-2011, 01:18

270 BC

Athenian orders:
-Attack the Macedonians immediatly, attempting to capture Chalkis (Yes).
-Hire a fleet to eventually attack Asia Minor (Not yet).
-Only allow the Alliance Army to pass through Attika (Yes).
-Trade rights and Alliance with the Epeirotai (Yes)
-Trade rights with Karthadast and Roma (Not yet).
-Ceasefire with Basileion ton Pontos (Yes).

Spartan orders:
-Engage the Macedonians to the north of Attika with the Alliance Army (Yes).
-Besiege Demetrias if possible (Not yet).
-Improve recruitment in Sparta, attempting not to rely on Athenian cavalry (Yes).
-Strenghten alliance with Corinth (Yes).
-Trade rights with Epeiros (Yes).
-Fleet should be built only in Rhodes (Not yet).
-Peace with Pontos (Yes).

(I'm sorry if you feel your orders deserved to but didn't make to the final list, some orders were conflicting and I had to leave them out. I also think it's nice to both cities to have a summary on what the other one is doing, allows for more interaction rather than each doing their own thing.)

By the end of the winter, Chremonides recieved orders from Athens to assault Chalkis.

He did so, but against his will.

The Macedonians had sent reinforcements, and now outnumbered the Athenians by a lot.

But the Athenians, even outnumbered, were ready to fight.

In a bloody battle, the Athenian army was almost completely wiped out, but managed to conquer Chalkis.

Later, after the region was pacified Chremonides would write to the Athenian Council asking what kind of relationship Athens and the Alliance would have with Chalkis.

Meanwhile, in Asia Minor, a treaty was signed with Pontos.

Back in Athenai, a small Macedonian army besieged the city.

Due to the almost total elimination of the Athenian forces in the siege of Chalkis and their necessity to remain in the city as garrison, there was no opposition to the Alliance Army, led by a Spartan, to march through Attike, as the council ordered - and while at it, defend Athens.

Since the Spartan army wouldn't go anywhere, Areus brought some of the Spartans with him in the Alliance Army. The Alliance Army attacked the besiegers of Athens, who were not many. Certainly the Macedonians expected the Athenian garrison to be low on men, but they did not expect the Alliance Army led by Sparta.

As agreed upon by both Athens and Sparta, the Epeirotes were seeked out.

And a profitable deal was made with the son of Pyrrhos.

Hopefully the army of Pyrrhos would help the Hellenes in the future.

In Korinthos, the Spartan Hegemon ordered public buildings and strengthened the relations between Sparta and Corinth.

Although there was still the matter of the nature of these relations.

In Sparta itself, the military recruitment structure was improved, as ordered by the Spartan council.

In the North, the Macedonians besieged Serdike.

And in Rhodes, Agathokles died of old age.

This is the situation of the Koinon Hellenon as of now, winter of the year 270BC.

The Athenian Boule session is now open to decide what must be done in 269BC.

**Molinaargh** · 02-03-2011, 01:23

Athenian orders:
-Fort to be built in the north of Attike and a small garrison placed there (Yes).
-Alliance army under Areus not allowed to march through Attike (Yes).
-Recruit more men (Yes).
-Improve recruitment in Athenai (Not yet).
-Improve the economy of Rhodes (Not yet).
-Economic analysis of the cities and the Koinon to be made (Yes).
-Consult mercenary availability (Yes).

Spartan orders:
-Retrain the Army in Sparta (Yes).
-Merge the Alliance Army with the Spartan Army (Yes).

268 BC

As per orders of the poleis, Chremonides built a fort to the north of Athens to block any Macedonian armies, while Areus left Attika, returning to Sparta to retrain the army.

Reinforcements were recruited in both Sparte and Athens.

In Sparte, the troops were heavily reinforced, in an attempt to bring back the Alliance Army to full strength.

Akrotatos, currently governor of Korinthos, participated in the Olympic games, but failed to win anything.

In that city, as well as in Chalkis, the new hellenic governments were fully instituted.

The Koinon Hellenon was now composed of 5 independent poleis.

Its treasury wasn't doing so well, especially since the retraining of the Alliance Army.

Many mercenaries were available for hire, but the Alliance couldn't afford any of them. The Alliance currently owes money, having nothing in its coffers.

The Athenian fort was eventually besieged by the Makedonians.

In Athens, reinforcements kept being levied to help with a possible confrontation.

When the Makedonians attacked, the 20 Athenian skirmishers stood no chance.

Reinforcements were quickly levied once again, but...

...the Macedonians didn't take long to reach Athens after the fort fell. Athenai was besieged.

And Athenai was alone for now, as any army led by Areus was forbidden of entering Attike. He could easily ignore this order - it was an Athenian order and not a Koinon one - but with the current relations between the two cities, he much rather not help the Athenians. Either way, he was about to lose command of the Alliance Army. 4 years had passed, and it was time for the Koinon Elections, which would happen in this year, 268 BC, despite the siege of Athens.

KOINON ELECTIONS

Possible candidates for both cities:

I recommend waiting for the elections to be over before proposing any polis motions, as the situation is likely to change after the offices are decided.

Offices to be voted for:
-Strategos Autokrator
-Hegemon

Athenian possible candidates:
-Chremonides Aithalidos Attikos
(Sadly there is only one candidate for Athens. He can only run for 1 of the 2 offices).

**jirisys** · 02-03-2011, 01:45

Leumenes arrived to the assembly, but not before going to the wall and seeing the besieging army. With a smirk on his face, he saw the two skirmishers enter the city, he was confident, and glad to see his plan worked, the poor 18 skirmishers gained him enough time to levy a decent army to protect the city, he went down and apologized to the families and escorted the two men to their homes.

His face was sweaty, and all the assemblymen were sitting, he was the last one. He saw a few Korinthians having a nice chat with the Euobians, he would keep that on his mind and remember it when most needed. Yet he knew they only talked to the Euobians because of their neutrality. He knew they supported sparta like if they were spartans themselves. He knew there was only a man electable for a single office, yet they didn't have that many support.

He knew that the position of strategos was of high importance (and was very convinced that another spartan would be the end af the polis), that and since the Athenian council offices and parties were going to be elected soon, he went to his protectee.

He asked the orator, who had paused from delivering the economical report of the poleis and the Koinon. He took the stand.

"My fellow councilmen, spartan and korinthian invitees. Welcome all. These are dire times, especially for Athenai, our city, besieged in a few hours, and without supplies, Sparta (and the allied army) not able (and if able, not willing), we must stand and fight, in the walls and in the streets, let us ask of our fellow slaves and willing men to throw rocks and arrows and anything at the incoming attackers, they will find themselves outnumbered if they dare climb the walls or enter our city, fools will they be, and we will prove that we are brave men."

"Yet, our strategies have worked, sadly, eighteen men have died, and the survivors may not live through their wounds, but their great sacrifice has brought a lot of time to levy men for the defense of the city, I would like to thank them, personally. We must prepare for the supply shortage and the defense of our polis. But other matters at hand. If we would earn, supported by all our hellenic friends, from Rhodoi to the Pelopponesos, to support us, for my respectable councilman and my elder Polemarchos, Chremonides Aithalidos Attikos, to run for the Strategos Autokrator position. For if he wins, the spartans would have to give the men and we would start to defend our city and our borders, so the Makedonian force be depleted in-detail, but we must have an athenian, one who will know when and where to strike, and is not afraid to fight another day, one wise, and of course, Chremonides is the chosen for this, as he will bring great victories to the alliance. We ask your support, so that we may prosper even more."

It was one of the few speeches he said when he was not choleric. It seems to have gone well. He sat down on his usual seat, and waited for the assembly to finish the report, then to decide on his motions.

But not before the creation of his own party...

I PROPOSE Chremonides to run for Strategos Autokrator.

~Jirisys (You should adopt somebody)

**Molinaargh** · 02-03-2011, 02:03

Athenian Council - Offices and Parties

Prytaneis: These men are the best among the Athenians. Every Party Leader is a Prytanis.

Epistates: This is the most important position in the council. The Epistates is the supervisor of the council, being the most important of the Athenian councilors. This position will be voted for amongst all members of the Athenian Council, but only Party Leaders can be voted for this position.
Party Leaders: This is the leader of a given party in the poleis. Only these men can run for the position of Epistates. Only those who belong to the party may vote or be voted for this position.

The Moderate Party is the standard party. All those who don’t belong to other parties belong to it. Until new parties are created, everyone is a Moderate.

You can form a new party by posting in the thread!The party must have at least 2 members in order to be accepted, so at least 1 more member will have to join you.

Parties may be created now. The founder of the party will be its Party Leader for the first 4 years.

**jirisys** · 02-03-2011, 02:09

I will found the Σμβαλλόμενο μέρος των σοφού και δίκαιου (Sumballomeno meros ton sophou kai dikaiou (Party of the wise and just (PWJ))

To spread the word of great Aristoteles and Clistenes, Platon and Euclides, all the men that are Athenian or not, may them be wise and they shall receive their due right. We will fight ignorance, impulsivity and injustice, with wisdom, deliberation and fairness. We must join, join the men in Hellas to a greater life, as part of the powerful and free Demos, for them not to be called idiotes, that they vote, like free men. To join all of Hellas in intellectual panhellenism and to be proud and strong, like all Hellas should be. Yet, if they so wish, allow full autonomy, but to unite the people as one, as the people from Hellas.

What better symbol for our cause than that of the owl of Athena?

The owl to be black and the shield to be dark blue

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

(Maybe same as of the faction symbol but with a black owl)

~Jirisys (

)

**Populus Romanus** · 02-03-2011, 02:16

I want to start the Sparte Nationalist Party. I am sure Diomede, a fellow Spartan, will join.

**Molinaargh** · 02-20-2011, 03:00

254 BC

Athenian motions:
-Reinforce the Alliance Army with troops recruited in Athenai. (Yes)
-Build better barracks at Kydonia and Chalkis, which would allow us to raise armies faster. (Yes)
-Expand the Military Port of Rhodes. (Yes)
-Polemarchos Poublios Karnasios is reassigned to Mikra Asia and replace Nikanor as the head commander there. This because Nikanor has proven unreliable to obey the Athenai assembly's wishes. (Yes)
-Reinforce the Athenai Army in Mikra Asia with professional troops. (Yes)
-Take a defensive stance in Mikra Asia. (Yes)
-Nikanor to return to Athenai and resumes his studies. (Yes)
-Doros is made Governor of Athenai. (Yes)
-Send a spy to Byzantion to update us on the situation there. (Yes)
-when the government of Pergamon has been properly established that we build stone walls around Pergamon, making the polis easier to defend from the Arche Seleukeia.

-Disband our levy troops in the Athenian Armies. Recruit professional troops like Epilektoi Hoplitai and Thorakitai to take their place. (Under recruitment in Athenai)
-Help the people of Dalmatia to appoint a new ruler of their own (Vollorix) who will manage the great potential wealth of the silver and gold mines and the trade of the region and who can protect it from the attacks of the other barbarians. (Not yet, doesn't it require the last level of local barracks to recruit a client ruler? Should I cheat to get those?)

Spartan motions:
-Build a new barracks at Sparte. (Not enough mnai, but the previous barracks improvement finished)
-Capture Serdike with the Alliance army and army of Sparte, but that it shall remain a neutral poleis, "liberated" from Epeirotes and returned to native rule. (Serdike under siege)
-After that the Alliance army marches on Bizantion. (Not yet)

The following law has passed: "The Recognition of Zones of Interest and Expansion between the Poleis Athenai and Sparte". It has been included in the Koinon Politeia.

The Battle of Serdike

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

254 BC would be remembered for the Battle of Serdike, but that was not the only event of this year.

Doros passed command of the Koinon Stratia (Alliance Army) to the new Strategos, Agis, and returned to Athenai as the Eponymous Archon (governor) of the polis, as appointed by the Athenian assembly.

His brother, Nikanor, also returned and was tutored by his older brother. The polis flourished under Doros's governance.

In Pergamon, Poublios became the new commander of the Athenian Army and the garrison of Pergamon. He ordered the construction of stone walls around the polis.

In Sparte the improvements to military recruitment were completed.

While in Chalkis they only begun.

Akrotatos had a son to continue his dynasty of Spartan Kings. Hippias would eventually succeed his father, as his father had succeeded Areus.

Damasos took the Sparte Reserve Army to patrol the Koinon's domain in preparation for the campaign against Serdike. He attacked a small Epeirote scouting party that could have been dangerous to the hellenic peasants in the countryside.

Our spies discovered that Byzantion had been conquered by the Basileion of Pontos. Now if this small polis was to be added to the Koinon, a new war would have to be started.

And yet another war was possible. The Getai tribes were moving towards the south, to Tylis, just east of Serdike. They are our allies for now, but barbarians can't be trusted.

In Rhodos a military naval bay was finished.

And in both Sparte and Athenai, well equipped and trained men were continuously recruited to support our military.

The campaign against Serdike was led by Strategos Agis. Even though members of the Spartan Krypteia usually don't leave Lakonia, an exception was made for him, as it was his responsability to lead the great army of the Koinon. The Army of Sparte, led by the two Kings, marched behind the Alliance Army.

After a few skirmishes in the mountains, the main field armies eventually faced each other near Serdike. Archiadas Kathraios, pretender of the Epeirote throne, led the barbaric men of Dardonia.

This was Agis first battle as a Strategos, but he was a confident and promising Spartan.

In the front Agis held the line against the barbarian troops. The Army of Sparte was coming from behind the epeirotes to flank them.

Akrotatos led the spartans, but it took some time to reach the main forces of Epeiros. The barbarians did everything to distract and delay our reinforcements.

With the arrival of the spartans, the barbarians were completely flanked and their line broke.

Archiadas retreated to Serdike with only a few of his once vast army.

A great hero became part of the Strategos's guard for his valour in the battle.

Serdike was besieged and would likely fall during the winter.

But one of our own poleis was sieged as well!

A numerous Seleukid army besieged Pergamon. Poublios requested orders from the Athenian assembly on how to deal with this situation.

Serdike, in the beginning of the winter, was still under siege and could fall at any time.

Such is the situation of our holdings in Hellas and Asia. Kydonia and Rhodos are excluded in this map:
https://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4461/037bwp.jpg

The polis session for 253 BC is now open.

**Paltmull** · 02-20-2011, 03:14

Originally Posted by Molinaargh

-Help the people of Dalmatia to appoint a new ruler of their own (Vollorix) who will manage the great potential wealth of the silver and gold mines and the trade of the region and who can protect it from the attacks of the other barbarians. (Not yet, doesn't it require the last level of local barracks to recruit a client ruler? Should I cheat to get those?)

Not at all. It only requires a lvl 4 gov. :)

**Molinaargh** · 02-20-2011, 03:26

Originally Posted by Paltmull

Not at all. It only requires a lvl 4 gov. :)

I'll check that next time.

Small update to the Athenian parties:

I've kept Arthouros as Epistates because he's been so helpful. Let me know if there were any other additions/changes that I missed, I haven't updated these in a long time.

**diomede** · 02-20-2011, 03:30

What did Athens do to lose a civil war square? NOT that I'm complaining.

Athenians, let me know if you want to start a war with Pontos. Currently I would rather we didn't and expect that to be the sentiment of the rest of our council.

**Molinaargh** · 02-22-2011, 06:01

253 BC

Athenian motions:
-Doros briefly leaves his post as Eponymos Archon and takes command of the Athenai forces stationed in Athenai, and travel to Pergamon to assist our forces there. He is then to leave reinforecements in the polis and return to Athenai. (Yes)
-Send a spy to look for anymore Epeirote holdings and to scout out the lands of: The Seleukids, the Romaioi, and the Getai. It's best to know where potential enemies could strike and where friends need help. (Yes)
-Expand the Military Docks at Rhodes further. (Yes)
-Build better barracks in Kydonia. (Yes)
-In Athenai, recruit 3 units of Thorakitai and 2 units of Hippeis in addition to any units of the same type that are already being recruited. (Not all of them were recruited, priority was given to Spartan spendings as they hold the office of Hegemon).

Spartan motions:
-Immediatly assault Serdike. (Yes)
-Leave Naissos untouched. We could use a buffer between ourselves and our allies, the Getai. (Yes)
-Launch the Sikilian Expedition. (Yes)
-Gradually replace levy troops with more professional troops. (Yes, I guess)
-Further advancement to Byzantion to be halted. (Yes)
-Request help from the Athenian Fleet to from a Koinon Fleet. (Yes)
-Improve barracks at Sparte. (Yes)
-More Agents be recruited and sent to the cities of the Getai establishing an intelligence network. (Yes)

The Defence of Pergamon

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The polis session is now open.

I can't see any of the images, I hope you can!

**Populus Romanus** · 02-22-2011, 07:14

A slave walked into the Boule hall, and took Appius' seat. Soon, it came his turn to speak.
Men of Athenai, I bring you news from my master. He is unable to you himself, as he off on campaign with the Kings in the Sikilian Expedition. He would like me to point out to you that the Seleukeis are spread thin. A large part of their surviving forces are besieging Halikarnassos, leaving a petty garrison in Sardis. Appius believes that both the besieging force and Sardis are targets ripe for the picking. Relieving Halikarnassos, however, will do little to benifit the Koinon Hellenon. Taking Sardis would take a large amount of the heat off Pergamon and give the Stratia ton Athenai a more secure position with more offensive possibilities. You have a very ideal situation for some easy expansion, men of Athenai.

**Vaginacles** · 02-22-2011, 09:01

He is right, It is also important as a major port destination for the persian royal road, as well as having vast gold and silver deposits that are needed to continuing importing grain for Athens. It is a vital economic city for the Seleucids, crippling their access to the Aegean and depriving them with seapower influence outside of the Levant sea. It is clear on the course of action...

I PROPOSE that we attack Sardis as soon as we are able, lead by Doros as he has experience in handling rival city populations.

I also PROPOSE that we enslave All non-Hellen inhabitants. They will raise much needed funds for the military campaign against Antiochus Theo and his army of Macedonian Phalanxes and provide the labour necessary to till the fields until our military settlers arrive.

Finally, I PROPOSE we establish a Military dictatorship ran directly by the Strategos of the army staying at Sardis. He will establish the settling of landless athenian citizens to the new frontier of sardis. From there, we can exploit Sardis so Athens may Benefit the most from it.

We must remember, Men of Athens, That Antiochus will retaliate with many men , we need more defensive troops as well as men that can handle the new slave population of Sardis. Therefore i PROPOSE we equip and train 2000 Toxoloi and 4000 Peltast to man the walls of Sardis, when we feel that these troops are not needed, we can disband them so that they can become military settlers of Sardis.

**Molinaargh** · 02-22-2011, 09:17