Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Athenai

[Molinaargh]

254 BC

Athenian motions:
-Reinforce the Alliance Army with troops recruited in Athenai. (Yes)
-Build better barracks at Kydonia and Chalkis, which would allow us to raise armies faster. (Yes)
-Expand the Military Port of Rhodes. (Yes)
-Polemarchos Poublios Karnasios is reassigned to Mikra Asia and replace Nikanor as the head commander there. This because Nikanor has proven unreliable to obey the Athenai assembly's wishes. (Yes)
-Reinforce the Athenai Army in Mikra Asia with professional troops. (Yes)
-Take a defensive stance in Mikra Asia. (Yes)
-Nikanor to return to Athenai and resumes his studies. (Yes)
-Doros is made Governor of Athenai. (Yes)
-Send a spy to Byzantion to update us on the situation there. (Yes)
-when the government of Pergamon has been properly established that we build stone walls around Pergamon, making the polis easier to defend from the Arche Seleukeia.

-Disband our levy troops in the Athenian Armies. Recruit professional troops like Epilektoi Hoplitai and Thorakitai to take their place. (Under recruitment in Athenai)
-Help the people of Dalmatia to appoint a new ruler of their own (Vollorix) who will manage the great potential wealth of the silver and gold mines and the trade of the region and who can protect it from the attacks of the other barbarians. (Not yet, doesn't it require the last level of local barracks to recruit a client ruler? Should I cheat to get those?)

Spartan motions:
-Build a new barracks at Sparte. (Not enough mnai, but the previous barracks improvement finished)
-Capture Serdike with the Alliance army and army of Sparte, but that it shall remain a neutral poleis, "liberated" from Epeirotes and returned to native rule. (Serdike under siege)
-After that the Alliance army marches on Bizantion. (Not yet)

The following law has passed: "The Recognition of Zones of Interest and Expansion between the Poleis Athenai and Sparte". It has been included in the Koinon Politeia.

The Battle of Serdike

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

254 BC would be remembered for the Battle of Serdike, but that was not the only event of this year.

Doros passed command of the Koinon Stratia (Alliance Army) to the new Strategos, Agis, and returned to Athenai as the Eponymous Archon (governor) of the polis, as appointed by the Athenian assembly.



His brother, Nikanor, also returned and was tutored by his older brother. The polis flourished under Doros's governance.



In Pergamon, Poublios became the new commander of the Athenian Army and the garrison of Pergamon. He ordered the construction of stone walls around the polis.








In Sparte the improvements to military recruitment were completed.



While in Chalkis they only begun.



Akrotatos had a son to continue his dynasty of Spartan Kings. Hippias would eventually succeed his father, as his father had succeeded Areus.



Damasos took the Sparte Reserve Army to patrol the Koinon's domain in preparation for the campaign against Serdike. He attacked a small Epeirote scouting party that could have been dangerous to the hellenic peasants in the countryside.



































Our spies discovered that Byzantion had been conquered by the Basileion of Pontos. Now if this small polis was to be added to the Koinon, a new war would have to be started.



And yet another war was possible. The Getai tribes were moving towards the south, to Tylis, just east of Serdike. They are our allies for now, but barbarians can't be trusted.



In Rhodos a military naval bay was finished.



And in both Sparte and Athenai, well equipped and trained men were continuously recruited to support our military.



The campaign against Serdike was led by Strategos Agis. Even though members of the Spartan Krypteia usually don't leave Lakonia, an exception was made for him, as it was his responsability to lead the great army of the Koinon. The Army of Sparte, led by the two Kings, marched behind the Alliance Army.



After a few skirmishes in the mountains, the main field armies eventually faced each other near Serdike. Archiadas Kathraios, pretender of the Epeirote throne, led the barbaric men of Dardonia.



This was Agis first battle as a Strategos, but he was a confident and promising Spartan.







In the front Agis held the line against the barbarian troops. The Army of Sparte was coming from behind the epeirotes to flank them.



Akrotatos led the spartans, but it took some time to reach the main forces of Epeiros. The barbarians did everything to distract and delay our reinforcements.















With the arrival of the spartans, the barbarians were completely flanked and their line broke.



Archiadas retreated to Serdike with only a few of his once vast army.







A great hero became part of the Strategos's guard for his valour in the battle.



Serdike was besieged and would likely fall during the winter.



But one of our own poleis was sieged as well!



A numerous Seleukid army besieged Pergamon. Poublios requested orders from the Athenian assembly on how to deal with this situation.



Serdike, in the beginning of the winter, was still under siege and could fall at any time.



Such is the situation of our holdings in Hellas and Asia. Kydonia and Rhodos are excluded in this map:
https://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4461/037bwp.jpg

The polis session for 253 BC is now open.

[Paltmull]

-Help the people of Dalmatia to appoint a new ruler of their own (Vollorix) who will manage the great potential wealth of the silver and gold mines and the trade of the region and who can protect it from the attacks of the other barbarians. (Not yet, doesn't it require the last level of local barracks to recruit a client ruler? Should I cheat to get those?)

Not at all. It only requires a lvl 4 gov. :)

[Molinaargh]

Not at all. It only requires a lvl 4 gov. :)

I'll check that next time.

Small update to the Athenian parties:

I've kept Arthouros as Epistates because he's been so helpful. Let me know if there were any other additions/changes that I missed, I haven't updated these in a long time.

[diomede]

What did Athens do to lose a civil war square? NOT that I'm complaining.

Athenians, let me know if you want to start a war with Pontos. Currently I would rather we didn't and expect that to be the sentiment of the rest of our council.

[Molinaargh]

As you guys can see I made myself a new sig (and avatar too!). I made samples if anyone wants to fill it with their own character info. You don't have to, of course. Here:

I'll probably be assigning influence points to everyone's characters so we can have some more interesting intra-koinon mechanics, we'll see.

The font I use is Charlemagne, by the way, if anyone wants to try to match it. It shouldn't be necessary though, and you can even add your text/portrait in Paint and it should work fine!

What did Athens do to lose a civil war square? NOT that I'm complaining.

Arthouros's proposals for 255 BC, I believe.

[Biowulf]

What did Athens do to lose a civil war square? NOT that I'm complaining.

Athenians, let me know if you want to start a war with Pontos. Currently I would rather we didn't and expect that to be the sentiment of the rest of our council.

I would think that a third war would be a very bad thing for us right now. Let's finish off Epeiros and see what the Getai do. As such:
I Propose that Poublious sallies forth to confront the Seleukid army. It is better to fight when fresh than when starving.
I Propose that we start feeding a few mnai to the barbarians so they don't feel the need to take our riches from us. A few hundred every season should be enough.
I Propose we send a spy to look for anymore Epeirote holdings and to scout out the lands of: The Seleukids, the Romaioi, and the Getai. It's best to know where potential enemies could strike and where friends need help.

[jirisys]

Done

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

Done

~Jirisys ()

Done as well. Unfortunately, I cannot view it myself because Norton blocks imageshack. What a shame.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Behold your Epistates! :

Athenians, let me know if you want to start a war with Pontos. Currently I would rather we didn't and expect that to be the sentiment of the rest of our council.

Yes we shall refrain from going to war against Pontos. For now...

I would think that a third war would be a very bad thing for us right now. Let's finish off Epeiros and see what the Getai do. As such:
I Propose that Poublious sallies forth to confront the Seleukid army. It is better to fight when fresh than when starving.
I Propose that we start feeding a few mnai to the barbarians so they don't feel the need to take our riches from us. A few hundred every season should be enough.
I Propose we send a spy to look for anymore Epeirote holdings and to scout out the lands of: The Seleukids, the Romaioi, and the Getai. It's best to know where potential enemies could strike and where friends need help.

1. DISAGREE - (See my Proposal below)

2. Neutral

3. AGREE


I PROPOSE that Doros briefly leaves his post as Eponymos Archon and takes command of the Athenai forces stationed in Athenai, and travel to Pergamon to assist our forces there. As soon as the siege is lifted/the Seleucid threat somewhat neutralized, he shall return to Athenai and to his post as Eponymos Archon, and leave a portion of his forces at Pergamon as reinforcement.

I PROPOSE that we expand the Military Docks at Rhodes further.

I PROPOSE that we build better barracks in Kydonia.

I PROPOSE that we in Athenai recruit 3 units of Thorakitai and 2 units of Hippeis in addition to any units of the same type that are already being recruited.


@Molinaargh, How many turns are left till the barracks in Athenai are completed?

Oh and could you edit the my law thingy in the OP (here and at TWC) I made a few typos I think:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-Athenai recognizes that the lands West of Hellas and all Poleis West of Hellas are in the Zone of Interest and Expansion of the polis Sparte. This with the addition of the polis Kyrene. Athenai shall not attempt to conquer poleis and land west of Hellas, and shall not actively work against Spartiatai expansion in the area, be it by ways of the sword or the word. If the expansion Spartiatai expansion in the area happens to be harmful to the Koinon as a whole, and/or Athenai, then Athenai has the right to voice its opposition of said expansion, the reasons presented should not be of a selfish nature used to hamper Spartiatai expansion/increased range of influence. Athenai also reserve the right to voice its opposition of unfair treatment of the population of Free Poleis upon their incorporation under Sparte.

-Sparte recognizes that the lands East of Hellas and all Poleis East of Hellas are in the Zone of Interest and Expansion of the polis Athenai. This with the exception of Byzantion which shall be a neutral polis. Sparte shalll not attempt to conquer poleis and land East of Hellas, and shall not actively work against Athenoi expansion in the area, be it by ways of the sword or the word. If the Athenoi expansion in the area happens to be harmful to the Koinon as a whole, and/or Sparte, then Sparte has the right to voice its opposition of said expansion, the reasons presented should not be of a selfish nature used to hamper Athenoi expansion/increased range of influence. Sparte also reserve the right to voice its opposition of unfair treatment of the population of Free Poleis upon their incorporation under Athenai.

Change into this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-Athenai recognizes that the lands West of Hellas and all Poleis West of Hellas are in the Zone of Interest and Expansion of the polis Sparte. This with the addition of the polis Kyrene. Athenai shall not attempt to conquer poleis and land west of Hellas, and shall not actively work against Spartiatai expansion in the area, be it by ways of the sword or the word. If the Spartiatai expansion in the area happens to be harmful to the Koinon as a whole, and/or Athenai, then Athenai has the right to voice its opposition of said expansion, the reasons presented should not be of a selfish nature used to hamper Spartiatai expansion/increased range of influence. Athenai also reserve the right to voice its opposition of unfair treatment of the population of Free Poleis upon their incorporation under Sparte.

-Sparte recognizes that the lands East of Hellas and all Poleis East of Hellas are in the Zone of Interest and Expansion of the polis Athenai. This with the exception of Byzantion which shall be a neutral polis. Sparte shall not attempt to conquer poleis and land East of Hellas, and shall not actively work against Athenoi expansion in the area, be it by ways of the sword or the word. If the Athenoi expansion in the area happens to be harmful to the Koinon as a whole, and/or Sparte, then Sparte has the right to voice its opposition of said expansion, the reasons presented should not be of a selfish nature used to hamper Athenoi expansion/increased range of influence. Sparte also reserve the right to voice its opposition of unfair treatment of the population of Free Poleis upon their incorporation under Athenai.

Without the bolded text of course, Thanks in advance.

[Molinaargh]

@Molinaargh, How many turns are left till the barracks in Athenai are completed?

Oh and could you edit the my law thingy in the OP (here an at TWC) I made a few typos I think

Done. The barracks will take another 4 seasons.

[jirisys]

Behold your Epistates! :

Arthouros Attkos? lol, I will change mine to Leumenes!

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Done. The barracks will take another 4 seasons.

Arthouros Attkos? lol, I will change mine to Leumenes!

~Jirisys ()

And I willl change mine to Attikos...

[Populus Romanus]

And I willl change mine to Attikos...

How did you get that smilie? It is only on TWCenter. Arthuoros is adopting Spartan Culture!

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Well it's also on my photobucket account.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Found it here first though: http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/mem...miley-1166.gif

[Tyrfingr]

I find it quite amusing that so many are young, supersmart, superbrave and awesome. If I would be part of this AAR, I would have that "gynaconomos-bla-bla" (supervisor of female gymnastics)-trait, along with the fat and bored trait :D

[Molinaargh]

Marble bust of Arthouros the Divider, first man to pass a Koinon Law since the foundation of the Alliance.
(digital painting I just made based on a bust of Attalus I)

I find it quite amusing that so many are young, supersmart, superbrave and awesome. If I would be part of this AAR, I would have that "gynaconomos-bla-bla" (supervisor of female gymnastics)-trait, along with the fat and bored trait :D

Do become a part of it! All you gotta do is get posting, it couldn't be any easier!

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I find it quite amusing that so many are young, supersmart, superbrave and awesome. If I would be part of this AAR, I would have that "gynaconomos-bla-bla" (supervisor of female gymnastics)-trait, along with the fat and bored trait :D

Well the Age part is; how old we were in 272 BC, so for example I am 35 as of 254 BC. But yeah I agree we went a bit overboard with the ideal citizen part, me and Leumenes... Please do join the AAR, it is all great fun.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Marble bust of Arthouros the Divider, first man to pass a Koinon Law since the foundation of the Alliance.
(digital painting I just made based on a bust of Attalus I)

Hey I look slightly more handsome than usual, thanks Molinaargh.

[jirisys]

Well the Age part is; how old we were in 272 BC, so for example I am 35 as of 254 BC. But yeah I agree we went a bit overboard with the ideal citizen part, me and Leumenes... Please do join the AAR, it is all great fun.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hey I look slightly more handsome than usual, good work on that Molinaargh.

Well, that's kinda how I am in real life

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Never mind.

[Molinaargh]

Never mind.

There was no reason to edit that

There will be no update today because lots of proposals haven't been addressed yet, and not many have been made. Sunday isn't the best day to update since a lot of people spend the day away from the computer.

It would be nice if someone could make one of those awesome proposals lists tomorrow!

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I realized too late that he referred to the traits and no the statue, so, yeah...

Will make a proposal list tomorrow.

[Populus Romanus]

Arthouros the Divider looks so souless and evil with no pupils. However, as always Molinaargh is highly accurate, for I have seen Arthuoros in person myself and can testify to the accuracy of that feature.


Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act

As of late, Men of the Koinon Hellenon, it has come to my attention that we do not have any official managment of the Koinon Hellenon's Treasury. Both Athenai and Sparte are both able to spend freely, with no regard for the finances of the other. Even recently we have suffered here at Sparte from being unable to construct a new barracks, due to our general poverty. Our spending is out of control, men of the Koinon!



I PROPOSE that both the Boule and the Gerousia have certain spending caps placed on them. They should be forbidden to spend over a certain limit. Each polis will be given an allowance each year: 45% of the budget to one polis and 45% to the other, with the extra 10% being granted to the polis with the current Hegemon. Note that the budget is only for incoming profits that year, you may not touch the Koinon Hellenon Reserve, which is the money we have already. A polis should never spend over their allocated amount, for overspending will eat into the other's budget. Overspending may be tolerated for a year or two, but any more and the civil war meter will go up! In order to make up for financial irresponsibility, the offending polis would have to severely cut their spending for a period of several years to bring the civil war meter back down. Any leftovers from the year go into the Koinon Hellenon Reserve. The Reserve is considered untouchable except in times of national crisis. In order for this plan to practicable, we would need an annual finacial report from the Great Voice In The Sky (Molina). The annual budget of each Polis will be estimated using the total profits from the previous year. For any expenitures that cost more than allocated budget of that polis for the year, these shall be called "Extraordinary Purchases", and must be approved by both Councils.



Demosthenes Amendments:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Amendment I.

Each polis must be guided in it's spending of money. These guidelines are separated into three sections: Border Polis, Military Polis, Non-Border or Military Polis. These sections are explained and must be followed in Amendment II.



Amendment II.

Border Polis:

-Garrison recruitment

-Cultural Upgrade Buildings

Military Polis:

-Strong Military Force recruitment

-Barracks Upgrading

-Cultural Upgrade Building

Non Border or Military Polis:

-Trade Upgrade Building

-Port Upgrading

-Cultural Upgrading



Amendment III.

Any policies listed in Amendment II can be changed by discussion of the parties and a vote.

Appius Amendment. (In addressment of Diomede's concerns)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Every time the Koinon Reserve exceeds 40000 mnai, we shall have a Major Expenditure Year, where vast amounts of money are to poured into the relatively undrdeveloped neutral cities, who have no Founding Polis to sponsor their development.

Alexandros of Sparta Amendment.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In the event of open war, the money will be spent on the construction of forts and improvement of facilities along the frontier with the warring faction. Those forts and settlements with facilities are to be guarded at all times, and in the even a garrison moves to attack another will take it's place.

The Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act would definantly benefit everyone. It would help the Koinon Hellenon Reserve rich and bursting, so that we may sleep well at night knowing that no sudden calamity can doom us forever. It will promote intra-polis cooperation by allowing Athenai and Sparte to collaborate on the managment of the budget, and eliminating any hard feelings over expenditure. It would give us more insight to our current situation, both economically and militarily. There are no foreseable downsides to the Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act, only profound benfits for all. Vote in the affirmative now, men of Sparte, or forever regret it when we go bankrupt!



Sparte Nationalist Party sponsors: Appius



Lacedaemonian Unionist sponsors: Demothenes



Please do not say "I agree" or "I disagree" yet. This Act is a work in progress, and I will be continuously refining it for the next four years. Please instead explain what you like about this Act and what you dislike about it, so that your voice may be heard.

[Molinaargh]

Laws can only be proposed during a Koinon Session. Next one will be 4 years (4 updates) from now, it's when elections happen. It's more organized this way.

You can try to gain support for your law now, but it's not under official voting and it will have to wait.

[huth]

Copied from twc:
Hey, I recently discovered this AAR, and I must say it's great - idea and Molina's rendition is awesome. I've noticed that some of you have a sig with info of own character, so I though, that I could do something like that, for training my art-skillz and because idea hit on me that this sig could be something similar to greek epitaph, I now that it's for dead person, but I don't care :P
So, you can see two sigs in spoiler below, they have a place for portrait/avatar on the left, same text categories and specific emblem on the hoplon. If anyone of you want one with other emblem on the shield, different text composition, have problems with edition or want me to add/change something in it - go on, that's no problem to make :)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Greenlizard0.]

Behold your Epistates! :

1. DISAGREE - (See my Proposal below)

2. Neutral

3. AGREE


I PROPOSE that Doros briefly leaves his post as Eponymos Archon and takes command of the Athenai forces stationed in Athenai, and travel to Pergamon to assist our forces there. As soon as the siege is lifted/the Seleucid threat somewhat neutralized, he shall return to Athenai and to his post as Eponymos Archon, and leave a portion of his forces at Pergamon as reinforcement.

I PROPOSE that we expand the Military Docks at Rhodes further.

I PROPOSE that we build better barracks in Kydonia.

I PROPOSE that we in Athenai recruit 3 units of Thorakitai and 2 units of Hippeis in addition to any units of the same type that are already being recruited.

I agree with the proposal of Arthourous.

Edit:

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act

As of late, Men of the Koinon Hellenon, it has come to my attention that we do not have any official managment of the Koinon Hellenon's Treasury. Both Athenai and Sparte are both able to spend freely, with no regard for the finances of the other. Even recently we have suffered here at Sparte from being unable to construct a new barracks, due to our general poverty. Our spending is out of control, men of the Koinon!



I PROPOSE that both the Boule and the Gerousia have certain spending caps placed on them. They should be forbidden to spend over a certain limit. Each polis will be given an allowance each year: 45% of the budget to one polis and 45% to the other, with the extra 10% being granted to the polis with the current Hegemon. Note that the budget is only for incoming profits that year, you may not touch the Koinon Hellenon Reserve, which is the money we have already. A polis should never spend over their allocated amount, for overspending will eat into the other's budget. Overspending may be tolerated for a year or two, but any more and the civil war meter will go up! In order to make up for financial irresponsibility, the offending polis would have to severely cut their spending for a period of several years to bring the civil war meter back down. Any leftovers from the year go into the Koinon Hellenon Reserve. The Reserve is considered untouchable except in times of national crisis. In order for this plan to practicable, we would need an annual finacial report from the Great Voice In The Sky (Molina). The annual budget of each Polis will be estimated using the total profits from the previous year. For any expenitures that cost more than allocated budget of that polis for the year, these shall be called "Extraordinary Purchases", and must be approved by both Councils.



Demosthenes Amendments:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Amendment I.

Each polis must be guided in it's spending of money. These guidelines are separated into three sections: Border Polis, Military Polis, Non-Border or Military Polis. These sections are explained and must be followed in Amendment II.



Amendment II.

Border Polis:

-Garrison recruitment

-Cultural Upgrade Buildings

Military Polis:

-Strong Military Force recruitment

-Barracks Upgrading

-Cultural Upgrade Building

Non Border or Military Polis:

-Trade Upgrade Building

-Port Upgrading

-Cultural Upgrading



Amendment III.

Any policies listed in Amendment II can be changed by discussion of the parties and a vote.

Appius Amendment. (In addressment of Diomede's concerns)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Every time the Koinon Reserve exceeds 40000 mnai, we shall have a Major Expenditure Year, where vast amounts of money are to poured into the relatively undrdeveloped neutral cities, who have no Founding Polis to sponsor their development.

Alexandros of Sparta Amendment.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In the event of open war, the money will be spent on the construction of forts and improvement of facilities along the frontier with the warring faction. Those forts and settlements with facilities are to be guarded at all times, and in the even a garrison moves to attack another will take it's place.

The Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act would definantly benefit everyone. It would help the Koinon Hellenon Reserve rich and bursting, so that we may sleep well at night knowing that no sudden calamity can doom us forever. It will promote intra-polis cooperation by allowing Athenai and Sparte to collaborate on the managment of the budget, and eliminating any hard feelings over expenditure. It would give us more insight to our current situation, both economically and militarily. There are no foreseable downsides to the Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act, only profound benfits for all. Vote in the affirmative now, men of Sparte, or forever regret it when we go bankrupt!



Sparte Nationalist Party sponsors: Appius



Lacedaemonian Unionist sponsors: Demothenes



Please do not say "I agree" or "I disagree" yet. This Act is a work in progress, and I will be continuously refining it for the next four years. Please instead explain what you like about this Act and what you dislike about it, so that your voice may be heard.

Arthouros who now held the high honour of serving his second term as Epistates ton Athenai arrived at the assembly early. Early enough to hear the Spartiatai law proposal that was actually rather extensive. When the Spartiates - or was he a Rhômaioi, Arthouros couldn't quite tell, had left the podium, Arthouros began addressing his law proposal:

"How marvellous, another law proposal I wholeheartedly... Wait what is this:

Arthouros the Divider looks so souless and evil with no pupils. However, as always Molinaargh Zeus Pater is highly accurate, for I have seen Arthuoros in person myself and can testify to the accuracy of that feature.

Spartan! How dare you insult my handsomeness and the vigour of my soul!? Just for that I shall DISAGREE with your puny law proposal, and as I Arthouros Attikos The Divider am Epistates my DISAGREE counts as two. Try getting this to pass now! Hah!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC
Okay, real reason to why I disagree is that I don't see how this is necessary, and I believe that restriction over our finances is un-constitutional. Plus I just don't like the idea of restricting our spendings.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Biowulf:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. I Propose that Poublious sallies forth to confront the Seleukid army. It is better to fight when fresh than when starving.

2. I Propose that we start feeding a few mnai to the barbarians so they don't feel the need to take our riches from us. A few hundred every season should be enough.

3. I Propose we send a spy to look for anymore Epeirote holdings and to scout out the lands of: The Seleukids, the Romaioi, and the Getai. It's best to know where potential enemies could strike and where friends need help.

1. DISAGREE Arthouros, Paltmull

2. Result: Pending

3. AGREE Arthouros, Paltmull


Arthouros:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. I PROPOSE that Doros briefly leaves his post as Eponymos Archon and takes command of the Athenai forces stationed in Athenai, and travel to Pergamon to assist our forces there. As soon as the siege is lifted/the Seleucid threat somewhat neutralized, he shall return to Athenai and to his post as Eponymos Archon, and leave a portion of his forces at Pergamon as reinforcement.

2. I PROPOSE that we expand the Military Docks at Rhodes further.

3. I PROPOSE that we build better barracks in Kydonia.

4. I PROPOSE that we in Athenai recruit 3 units of Thorakitai and 2 units of Hippeis in addition to any units of the same type that are already being recruited.

1. AGREE Greenlizard, Paltmull

2. AGREE Greenlizard, Paltmull

3. AGREE Greenlizard, Paltmull

4. AGREE Greenlizard, Paltmull




Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act

As of late, Men of the Koinon Hellenon, it has come to my attention that we do not have any official managment of the Koinon Hellenon's Treasury. Both Athenai and Sparte are both able to spend freely, with no regard for the finances of the other. Even recently we have suffered here at Sparte from being unable to construct a new barracks, due to our general poverty. Our spending is out of control, men of the Koinon!



I PROPOSE that both the Boule and the Gerousia have certain spending caps placed on them. They should be forbidden to spend over a certain limit. Each polis will be given an allowance each year: 45% of the budget to one polis and 45% to the other, with the extra 10% being granted to the polis with the current Hegemon. Note that the budget is only for incoming profits that year, you may not touch the Koinon Hellenon Reserve, which is the money we have already. A polis should never spend over their allocated amount, for overspending will eat into the other's budget. Overspending may be tolerated for a year or two, but any more and the civil war meter will go up! In order to make up for financial irresponsibility, the offending polis would have to severely cut their spending for a period of several years to bring the civil war meter back down. Any leftovers from the year go into the Koinon Hellenon Reserve. The Reserve is considered untouchable except in times of national crisis. In order for this plan to practicable, we would need an annual finacial report from the Great Voice In The Sky (Molina). The annual budget of each Polis will be estimated using the total profits from the previous year. For any expenitures that cost more than allocated budget of that polis for the year, these shall be called "Extraordinary Purchases", and must be approved by both Councils.



Demosthenes Amendments:

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Amendment I.

Each polis must be guided in it's spending of money. These guidelines are separated into three sections: Border Polis, Military Polis, Non-Border or Military Polis. These sections are explained and must be followed in Amendment II.



Amendment II.

Border Polis:

-Garrison recruitment

-Cultural Upgrade Buildings

Military Polis:

-Strong Military Force recruitment

-Barracks Upgrading

-Cultural Upgrade Building

Non Border or Military Polis:

-Trade Upgrade Building

-Port Upgrading

-Cultural Upgrading



Amendment III.

Any policies listed in Amendment II can be changed by discussion of the parties and a vote.

Appius Amendment. (In addressment of Diomede's concerns)

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Every time the Koinon Reserve exceeds 40000 mnai, we shall have a Major Expenditure Year, where vast amounts of money are to poured into the relatively undrdeveloped neutral cities, who have no Founding Polis to sponsor their development.

Alexandros of Sparta Amendment.

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In the event of open war, the money will be spent on the construction of forts and improvement of facilities along the frontier with the warring faction. Those forts and settlements with facilities are to be guarded at all times, and in the even a garrison moves to attack another will take it's place.

The Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act would definantly benefit everyone. It would help the Koinon Hellenon Reserve rich and bursting, so that we may sleep well at night knowing that no sudden calamity can doom us forever. It will promote intra-polis cooperation by allowing Athenai and Sparte to collaborate on the managment of the budget, and eliminating any hard feelings over expenditure. It would give us more insight to our current situation, both economically and militarily. There are no foreseable downsides to the Pvblivs Appivs Clavdivs Treasury Managment Act, only profound benfits for all. Vote in the affirmative now, men of Sparte, or forever regret it when we go bankrupt!

DISAGREE Arthouros, Paltmull

[Molinaargh]

Spartan! How dare you insult my handsomeness and the vigour of my soul!? Just for that I shall DISAGREE with your puny law proposal, and as I Arthouros Attikos The Divider am Epistates my DISAGREE counts as two. Try getting this to pass now! Hah!

I know this is a joke, but the position of Epistates is an Athenian one, not a Koinon one. So the "counts as two" only works for polis sessions, not the Koinon session. Just figured I'd clear that up. And it's a shady rule anyway!

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Okay.




~Arthouros

[Populus Romanus]

Arthouros the Pupil-less, you can't disagree yet, because this isn't a Koinon Session, so the law cannot even be voted on. If you do not the law, instead tell me what you don't like about it, so that it can be improved. For instance, you say you do not like the overregulation you percieve in this law. Then you can just add an amendment limiting the power of the law. Your voice can be heard, you only need to speak.

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Muwahhahahaah!

@Molinaarg: In the Gerousia, do Ephoroi votes count as two, then?

[Paltmull]

Hey Populus...

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Now shut up!

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(Sorry about desecrating your work Molinaargh )

EDIT: Btw, I agree with the proposals Arthuros agreed with and disagree with those he disagreed with. I also agree with all the proposals that Arthuros made.