Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Athenai

[fireblade]

I SUPPORT Arthouros' proposal, no spartan foothold in Asia Minor.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I PROPOSE that we attack Mytilene now with the Alliance army
and I PROPOSE that we establish a democratic Klerouchoi there.
I PROPOSE that we use the athenian army for the defence against Macedonia.

Arthouros rose and spoke:

"Yes I PARTIALLY AGREE that we establish a democratic Kleroucheia in Mytilene , on the condition that the city is to remain neutral in inter-Koinon politics. I am pleased to see that you agree with my proposal to attack Mytilene. Your proposal to use the Athenian army for the defence of Demetrias is the same as Leumenes proposal, and I AGREE, it is a wise proposal."

OOC (out of character)

After we captured Lesbos I PROPOSE that we force Macedonia into a peace treaty and to pay tribute to us. They must fear our superior forces but Macedonia is still a strong nation and they have a lot men that can serve in the army and it's unrealistic to believe that we can control them now. (you should use Force Diplomacy this time)

I'm not sure if Molinaargh have the force-diplomacy mod/ I can't really agree with this proposal, but I do not disagree with it either

To make up for this I PROPOSE that the Sparta can appoint a new Polemarchos and use our fleet if they want to attack another enemy. They're warriors and we should not forbid them to fight.

Not possible, the Polemarchos is elected during the Koinon elections, and not in between them.
And I DISAGREE that we should allow the Spartatai to use our fleet to attack another enemy at this time, as we have more important issues of military nature at hand.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros added:

"Also, upon the liberation of Mytilene I PROPOSE that its population is neither enslaved nor expelled. The reason to why I propose this is quite simple; the last time the Alliance Army seized a polis we Athenoi had not decided upon a stance regarding how the populace would be treated, and as such the Spartan motion to enslave Demetrias population was carried out. That is something I would like to avoid in the future."

Arthouros was seated again.


~Arthouros

[Molinaargh]

So far we have:

Athenian orders:
-Attack Mytilene with the Alliance Army.
-Request the Spartan Army to aid in such task.
-Demetrias to be reinforced with the Athenian Army.
-Infrastructure investments to continue.
-No more men in Athenai's sphere of influence to be recruited (Athenai has no power outside of it, as it doesn't control the Hegemon).
-Temple to be built in Athenai or Chalkis.
-Contact to be made with other Hellenic cities: Syracuse, Masalia, Emporion, Chersonesos and Pantikapaion.
-Athenian Fleet should only be used by the Spartan Army if they become commanded by the Alliance.


I must say that I do not understand how you Athenians expect the Spartan Army to aid you in the advance through Asia if nothing is given in return, and, in fact, the Spartans only lose by not being able to control their own army.

The Spartans would never take such a deal, and the Alliance will just lose the possible reinforcements by making these outrageous demands.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Okay how about this then:

Arthouros spoke:

"It is probably best if we give the Spartatai something in return... After the liberation of Mytilene and after the Alliance army have returned to Hellas proper, I PROPOSE the following:

* That the Spartan reinforcements to the Allied army be returned to a Spartatai general of their choosing.

* That the Alliance army aid the Spartatai in taking Thermon

* Let the Spartatai decide upon the system of governance there.

This is of course only if they agree to the proposal to aid the Allied army in Mikra Asia."

Molinaargh could you leave the session open until some other people have voiced their opinions on these new proposals? Thanks in advance.

[Paltmull]

Therefore I PROPOSE that we inquire map information - and/or send spies to their lands - from the Arche Seleukeia, and our Ptolemaio allies, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly."

I PROPOSE that we attack Mytilene now with the Alliance army
and I PROPOSE that we establish a democratic Klerouchoi there.
I PROPOSE that we use the athenian army for the defence against Macedonia.

I PROPOSE that we forbid any action against Aitolia. They are our allies.

AGREED to all.

To make up for this I PROPOSE that the Sparta can appoint a new Polemarchos and use our fleet if they want to attack another enemy. They're warriors and we should not forbid them to fight.

I DISAGREE

"Also, upon the liberation of Mytilene I PROPOSE that its population is neither enslaved nor expelled.

I AGREE. Allowing the Spartan council to convince OUR Strategos to enslave Demetrias whas a mistake.

I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon"

I DISAGREE. Sparta will never accept this. Instead, I PROPOSE that one unit from the Athenian army and one or two units from the Spartan army joins the alliance army, and that the rest of both the Athenian and the Spartan armies remain in Greece to defend against Macedon. WITHDRAWN

EDIT:

"It is probably best if we give the Spartatai something in return... After the liberation of Mytilene and after the Alliance army have returned to Hellas proper, I PROPOSE the following:

* That the Spartan reinforcements to the Allied army be returned to a Spartatai general of their choosing.

* That the Alliance army aid the Spartatai in taking Thermon

* Let the Spartatai decide upon the system of governance there.

I AGREE and WITHDRAW my proposal.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I DISAGREE. Sparta will never accept this. Instead, I PROPOSE that one unit from the Athenian army and one or two units from the Spartan army joins the alliance army, and that the rest of both the Athenian and the Spartan armies remain in Greece to defend against Macedon.

I never really said that I wanted the entire Spartan army/or any overtly large portion of it to support the Alliance army. What I meant by that was, that if they wish to send a substantial Spartatai force then it should be placed under the Alliance command, as I advocate that Mytilene is to stay neutral. Therefore I guess I technically AGREE that only small portions of the Athenai and Spartatai armies are to support the Alliance army.

tl:dr Mytilene to stay neutral = Arthur happy.

[Paltmull]

Missed that. I AGREE that Mytilene should stay neutral.

Well, neutral in Koinon affairs. But they will of course be grateful to Athens for removing the Macedonian influence.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Good, hope Molinaargh notes this and updates his post at TWC regarding this, as I suspect some Spartatai may misunderstand its current incarnation.

edit: And I've been reading the thread for this AAR at TWC, where the (some, read the "Spartan National Party") Spartatai have suggested taking Mytilene with their own army, then move on to Pergamon, and then continue to Nikaia and bringing quite a lot of Hellenic poleis in Mikra Asia under Spartan influence. Sorry I should've spelled that out more clearly.

edit 2: Here we go:

(1)I PROPOSE the Aigion Domination Contingengcy. It really is a quite simple, long term plan to dominate the Aigion. Basically what we do is this. Phase I: two thrusts, from Hellas to Mytilene and from Rhodos to Halikarnassos. Phase II: two thrusts, from Lesbos to Pergamon (who are severely weakened from their desperate attempts to repel the Makedonians from Lesbos) and from Karia to Sardis.
(2)I PROPOSE the Mikra Asia Contingency. This is an even more long term plan. After the Aigion Domination Contingency has been successfully executed, the Mikra Asia Contingency shall be initiated. Phase I: two thrusts, Mysia to Nikaia and Lydia to Ipsos. Phase II: one thrust, from Bithynia and Phyrgia to Ankyra. Phase III: one thrust, from Galatia to Mazaka. When the Mikra Asia Contingency is successfully executed, all Seleukid presence in Mikra Asia will have been eradicated, and I will have been avenged.

Atm it seems to be voted against; 2 votes against, 1 vote for.

[Paltmull]

That would be completely unacceptable. The point of this alliance is to defend against threats such as Makedonia and Epeiros, not to create a Spartan empire. If Sparta in the future attempts to use the alliance army to conquer independent cities in Asia Minor, for no other advantage than their own, I see no other choice than to end this alliance. No Athenian soldiers or ships must participate in such a thing.

Since Mytilene is to stay neutral, I PROPOSE that no Spartan or Athenian generals and no larger quantity of Spartan or Athenian soldiers remain in Asia Minor after the conquest of Mytilene. The garrison should be levied there.

[jirisys]

I PROPOSE that we attack Mytilene now with the Alliance army
and I PROPOSE that we establish a democratic Klerouchoi there.
I PROPOSE that we use the athenian army for the defence against Macedonia.
After we captured Lesbos I PROPOSE that we force Macedonia into a peace treaty and to pay tribute to us. They must fear our superior forces but Macedonia is still a strong nation and they have a lot men that can serve in the army and it's unrealistic to believe that we can control them now. (you should use Force Diplomacy this time)
I PROPOSE that we forbid any action against Aitolia. They are our allies.
To make up for this I PROPOSE that the Sparta can appoint a new Polemarchos and use our fleet if they want to attack another enemy. They're warriors and we should not forbid them to fight.

I: I AGREE with your proposal

II: I DISAGREE with your proposal, as an Tyranneia or Allied Kingdom would be more suitable for remote colonies. Therefore, I PROPOSE an Allied Basileion to be instituted in Lesbos.

III: I Already proposed that before you edited it, so... I'll have to AGREE

IV: I PARTIALLY AGREE as long as he has FD installed.

V: I PARTIALLY DISAGREE we must be ready if the epirots want to desecrate Delphoi, we should be ready to defend them.

VI: It's NOT POSSIBLE until the next KH elections

"I thank you Leumenes for your support. I see that you are truly a godly man.

We must be deeply saddened by the loss of our ally Areus. Whatever his shortcomings, he for the good of the Koinon. Therefore I PROPOSE our ambassador sends the Spartan council an offical Eulogy to Areus so his loss further strenghtens our bond.

I AGREE with the proposals of Leumenens to build up our infrastructure and a professional force, letting our levied men return to their homes. Of course this tranistion must be done with caution.

I also AGREE with the proposals to atach Lesbos with the alliance army with the aid of Sparta and garrison Demetrias with the Athenian army. Now is the time. Believing this will open a new front is speculation. A swift strike can bring down Macedonian influence an establish us at the coastline of Asia without disturbing the balance of power in the region.."

Enyalio stepped down and took his seat, musing wich party most closly responded to his ideals.

I AGREE, in fact, I will go there personally and say it in the assembly myself

Arthouros stood up and smiled, and began with addressed the newest addition to the assembly:

"I AGREE with all three of your recent proposals Enyalio. It would seem you are already becoming an upstanding member of the ekklesia. Furthermore allow me to congratulate Demosthenes on becoming Epistates. It is my firm belief that he will prove fit for such a high position amongst our people.

When we have liberated Mytilene, we will not be under immediate threat of hostilities by the major powers of Asia, as Pergamon will act as a buffer of sorts. However it is probably wise to plan ahead so to speak. It is my belief that it is more beneficial for the Hellenic free peoples that the status quo between the Arche Seleukeia and Ptolemaoi is to be maintained, but it is only a matter of time until one of them gains the upper hand, and may turn upon us when their respective "big bad rival" is gone.

Therefore I PROPOSE that we inquire map information - and/or send spies to their lands - from the Arche Seleukeia, and our Ptolemaio allies, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly."

I AGREE with your proposal.

Arthouros added:

"Some in the Spartatai assembly are proposing that Pergamon is to be conquered after our liberation of Mytilene. Also it appears to be some sort of desire amongst some of them to bind Pergamon and/or Mytilene closer to them, by attacking using the Spartan armies. Am I correct in the notion that we Athenioi control all of the Koinon fleet at this time? In any event I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon"

I AGREE, the Pergamoneans have had enough with their independence from Arche Seleukeia, we do not need to incite them if we are going to force them.

Arthouros added:

"Also, upon the liberation of Mytilene I PROPOSE that its population is neither enslaved nor expelled. The reason to why I propose this is quite simple; the last time the Alliance Army seized a polis we Athenoi had not decided upon a stance regarding how the populace would be treated, and as such the Spartan motion to enslave Demetrias population was carried out. That is something I would like to avoid in the future."

Arthouros was seated again.


~Arthouros

I AGREE, those are good greek, supporting the ways of the polis, yet we also need barbaroi slaves however, The northern tribes would provide us many I believe.

Okay how about this then:

Arthouros spoke:

"It is probably best if we give the Spartatai something in return... After the liberation of Mytilene and after the Alliance army have returned to Hellas proper, I PROPOSE the following:

* That the Spartan reinforcements to the Allied army be returned to a Spartatai general of their choosing.

* That the Alliance army aid the Spartatai in taking Thermon

* Let the Spartatai decide upon the system of governance there.

This is of course only if they agree to the proposal to aid the Allied army in Mikra Asia."

Molinaargh could you leave the session open until some other people have voiced their opinions on these new proposals? Thanks in advance.

I: I AGREE with this proposal.

II and III: I DISAGREE with these proposals, Thermon can destroy our armies, it would be more prudent to wait for them to call for our aid against Epiros.

I PROPOSE that no Spartan or Athenian generals and no larger quantity of Spartan or Athenian soldiers remain in Asia Minor after the conquest of Mytilene. The garrison should be levied there.

I AGREE with this proposal.

With this Leumenes rode to Lakedaimonia, uncertain of what was going on there.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

II and III: I DISAGREE with these proposals, Thermon can destroy our armies, it would be more prudent to wait for them to call for our aid against Epiros.

Those proposals were only made to make the Spartatai agree to not go on a spree of conquest in Mikra Asia, and still send some degree of support to the Alliance army. So really I understand your concern.

[Paltmull]

II: I DISAGREE with your proposal, as an Tyranneia or Allied Kingdom would be more suitable for remote colonies. Therefore, I PROPOSE an Allied Basileion to be instituted in Lesbos.

Moolinargh: If Lesbos is to be neutral, would the AAR rules require a type IV government? If that is the case, I AGREE with this proposal instead of the one Arthuros Rahl made. If not, I still support the Type II gov. proposal.

Also, about my suggestion regarding the Mytilene garrison being levied from Mytilene: Leaving a small garrison there until recruitment is possible would of course still be necessary. No generals though!

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Lulz that was Rahl's proposal... Any way yeah I would also want to know if the Government type affects the neutrality of the settlement. If it's not possible to establish a democratic Kleroucheia without affecting the neutrality, then I too AGREE with the proposal Leumenes/jirsys made; i.e. Mytilene to be a Free Allied Kingdom/Type IV. As Rahls proposal have been withdrawn I now instead AGREE with Leumenes proposal to establish a Free Allied Kingdom at Mytilene.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Demosthenes, who had entered the council earlier and sat in deep conversation with his excellent and trusty slave, catching up on council business, arose.

"Fellow Athenians, fellow Hellenes, business has kept me from this council for longer than I have desired. It is good, though, to see that so many fine minds dwell within our fine city. It is a great honour to be named Epistate of this council, one that I shall work to be worthy of, and I thank you for your kind words of support on that matter Arthourus. I shall make offerings to Athena Pallas for her grace, and for her continued blessing of wisdom to our great city, as demonstrated by you fine men of this council.

I thank you also, Arthourus, for bringing to the attention of this council the sentiment of some of the spartan council. I will say two things on this matter. First, that the individual who made the proposals that you refer to is something of a .....hothead, a losse cannon, perhaps, when his ire is raised. I believe that many of the other Spartan councillors were as shocked by his proposals as many here may have been. Secondly, the reasons for such ire can be addressed by us in this council. Suspicion has stepped between our two great cities in the past, and we must not allow it to poison our relations again. Again, I must commend Arthourus, for making clear that we offer Sparte much, that our actions are not for the benefit of Athens alone, but for the benefit of the Koinon. We must stand together. I will say, in fact, that we will stand only together. If we are divided we will fall. Truly, I believe it is that stark a choice.

The passing on of Areus is a loss to the Koinon. I believe he was a fine, intelligent and honourable man, of the noblest of intentions. Sparte's loss is our loss also.

I will now peruse the proposals put before this session of the council before casting my opinion upon them. Glory to Hellas, great men of Athens."

With that Demosthenes sat and began a long and involved discussion with his slave.

[Rahl]

II: I DISAGREE with your proposal, as an Tyranneia or Allied Kingdom would be more suitable for remote colonies. Therefore, I PROPOSE an Allied Basileion to be instituted in Lesbos.

After some consideration, I changed my mind. I take back my proposal and AGREE to yours.

III: I Already proposed that before you edited it, so... I'll have to AGREE

I noticed that too late, our Proposals should be seen as one.

V: I PARTIALLY DISAGREE we must be ready if the epirots want to desecrate Delphoi, we should be ready to defend them.

I agree with that. I meant we should take no offensive actions against Thermon, because I fear some people consider the Aitolian lands as the next region to expand. If the Epeirotes attack Thermon we should help them, I fear this day is near...

VI: It's NOT POSSIBLE until the next KH elections

I didn't know that. Then I PROPOSE that we take an attempt to change the Constitution, there's always the possibility of the death of the Strategos and the Polemarchos in the same year.

Therefore I PROPOSE that we inquire map information - and/or send spies to their lands - from the Arche Seleukeia, and our Ptolemaio allies, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly.

I AGREE and I PROPOSE that we do the same with Epeiros and Mikra Asia.

In any event I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon

I AGREE .

Also, upon the liberation of Mytilene I PROPOSE that its population is neither enslaved nor expelled.

I AGREE.

[Molinaargh]

This has been a busy session, and it is now over. Epistates Demosthenes was sadly unable to state his opinions, but actions must be taken, and it seems the Boule has already made up its mind.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros:

Attack Mytilene

PARTIALLY AGREE jiri

AGREE Rahl, Enyalio


The Spy stationed outside Pergamon is to infiltrate Mytilene and attempt to open the gates for our forces

AGREE Leumenes, Paltmull

Get map information from the Arche Seleukeia and our Ptolemaio allies, either through diplomacy or espionage, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly.

AGREE Paltmull, Rahl


“In any event I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon"

AGREE – Fireblade, Leumenes, Rahl

DISAGREE Paltmull

"After the liberation of Mytilene and after the Alliance army have returned to Hellas proper, I PROPOSE the following":

* That the Spartan reinforcements to the Allied army be returned to a Spartatai general of their choosing.

AGREE Palmull, Leumenes

* That the Alliance army aid the Spartatai in taking Thermon

AGREE Palmull DISAGREE Leumenes

* Let the Spartatai decide upon the system of governance there.

AGREE Palmull DISAGREE Leumenes

Population of Mytilene not to be enslaved or expelled

AGREE Leumenes, Rahl, Paltmull




Enyalio:



Build temple in Athenai or Chalkis.

Our diplomats and spies are to travel to the following cities and attempt to restore relations: Massalia, Emporion, Syracuse, Chersonesos, Pantikapaion

AGREE Leumenes, Arthouros




Leumenes:


The Athenian army is to garrison the city of Demetrias

AGREE Rahl, Arthouros

Mytilene to be an Allied Kingdom (Type IV)

AGREE Arthouros, Rahl


Keep upgrading our infrastructure in all of the cities in our control.

AGREE Arthouros, Enyalio


Focus on developing a more professional army

AGREE Arthouros, Enyalio


Rahl:

Get map information from Epeiros and Mikra Asia, either through diplomacy or espionage.

Result: None - Session over.

[Paltmull]

You forgot:

Paltmull:

No Spartan or Athenian generals and no larger quantity of Spartan or Athenian soldiers remain in Asia Minor after the conquest of Mytilene. The garrison should be levied there.

AGREE Leumenes

[Molinaargh]

514 (262 BC)

Makedonia's Last Stand

Athenian orders:
-Attack Mytilene with the Alliance Army. (Yes)
-Request the Spartan Army to aid in such task. (They refused)
-Demetrias to be reinforced with the Athenian Army. (Yes)
-Infrastructure investments to continue. (Yes)
-No more men in Athenai's sphere of influence to be recruited (Athenai has no power outside of it, as it doesn't control the Hegemon). (Yes)
-Temple to be built in Athenai or Chalkis. (Yes)
-Contact to be made with other Hellenic cities: Syracuse, Masalia, Emporion, Chersonesos and Pantikapaion. (Only Syracuse)
-Athenian Fleet should only be used by the Spartan Army if they agree to become commanded by the Alliance. (They refused)
-Free Allied Kingdom to be established in Mytilene. (Yes)

Spartan orders:
-Reinforce the Spartan Army. (Yes)
-Athen's request for Spartan reinforcements to be ignored.
-Pella to be besieged. The siege must be long (Mytilene may not be attacked since the Athenians wouldn't lend their ships).
-Diplomatic report on Epeiros and the Getai tribes. (Yes)
-Increased espionage on Epeiros and the Getai. (Tes)

The year of 514 started slow. Eugenios Rhodios got married and many important men of the Hellenic League attended his marriage. They all knew how important the support of Rhodos was to the Alliance, and they all wanted their share of the island's wealth.


From Anatolē, our spies sent reports of how the ruins of Troia had been almost completely destroyed by the continuous Makedon sieges to Pergamon. The Alliance Army would soon be very close to it.


Akrotatos had a daughter and named her Thessalonike, perhaps wishing the gods would favor the Spartans in their conquest of the region by the same name.


The Athenians, on the other hand, erected a temple dedicated to Athena in the polis of Chalkis, hoping to gain her favor in their expedition to Lesbos.


Doros and the Alliance Army left for Lesbos and arrived quickly, going by sea from Demetrias to the island.


Doros ordered the city to be besieged immediatly.


The siege did not last long, as the Makedones that were besieging Pergamon (again!) returned to aid Euchrous Mitylenaios, the polis's Tyrannos.














The city was occupied, and left to decide its own fate with one condition: Mytilene was now an allied polis of the Koinon Hellenon.





The new situation of Mikra Asia.


In the meantime, the Spartans were on their own adventure. Hegemon Akrotatos recruited men from Sparte, Korinthos and some from Demetrias to reinforce the Spartan Armies. Armies, yes, because now they were 2: the 1st Spartan Army and the 2nd Spartan Army.


The two Spartan Armies positioned themselved by the fort near Demetrias, ready to launch an attack on Pella, the Makedon capital and now their last stand.


Even mercenaries were hired to fill the ranks of the 2nd Spartan Army under Damasos Souniakos.


The 1st Spartan Army, under Eudamidas, besieged Pella


The 2nd Army came from behind and attacked the Makedon scouting party, so that they couldn't cut the Spartan supply line or threaten the siege in any manner.


Months passed, winter came, and the Makedons seemed to have accepted their state of siege. They could still last a long time in Pella - the city had plenty of supplies - but the longer they stayed inside the walls, the weaker and more demoralized their garrison would become.


Espionage and Diplomatic Reports:






























The Spartan Armies are outside of Pella. The Athenian Army is garrisoned in Demetrias, and the Alliance Army is in Mytilene.


This council session is now open for you brave (and those not-so-brave as well) hellenes to discuss what orders will be sent to the strategoi, the poleis and whoever else we feel like bossing around.

[Walle]

I PROPOSE we leave a small garrison in Mytilene, and take the Alliance army back to the mainland, perhaps to assist the Spartans. I don't think we should attract the attention of the Seleucids by attacking Pergamon or any other city in Mikra Asia.

[The_Blacksmith]

I PROPOSE we leave a small garrison in Mytilene, and take the Alliance army back to the mainland, perhaps to assist the Spartans. I don't think we should attract the attention of the Seleucids by attacking Pergamon or any other city in Mikra Asia.

I AGREE with this motion

I PROPOSE to reinforce the navy and hunt off the pitares at Krete

[diomede]

Athenians! I beg your forgiveness for my long absense from your great city, but alas my holy work has kept me busy enough to barely attend the Spartan councils, never mind make the treck to Attica. My slave has done a terrible job, truly awful, so I regret to waste time by asking who I may view here as allies? And who may I be wary of spewing the same vile hatred of the Spartan National Unionists?

I would like to assauge fears that the attack on Pella has been done to spite the rest of the Koinon Hellenon; a buffer is nice, but a fortress is better. We already share a border with Epeiros through the Pindus mountains. The tribes of Thaikia to the east and northeast are either allied to us or neutral. Epeiros on the other hand, they will attack us some day, and when they do we should be ready. The conquest of Pella is purely a defensive one, at least so far as the Lacedaemon Unionists are concerned. Upon completing the conquest of Pella, I shall be appealing to my Spartan councilors that above all else, the first priority should be the strengthening of its wall defenses.

Allow me to feel you out on a touchy subject, that of the navy. At present it appears that we Spartans have decided to rebuild our navy, primarily to have one available for when you bar us from using your own. May I propose that we attempt to cooperate more on the use of the Koinon's navy?

[Enyalio]

"Dear friends,

Our plans have been fruitfull. Mytilene has now joined the alliance. Praise to Athena and our young commander Doros. I AGREE with the suggestions to withdraw the alliance army from Mytilene made by Kairos.

It also seems the Spartans did not feel that a build-up of strenght was necessary. We were amiss perhaps. We should have seen that their warlike nature would not allow them to sit back.
However our disagreements over the attacks of Pella an Mytilene might have caused some stir in our relationship. I would request (PROPOSE)a visit from the Spartan ambassador to explain their motives and intentions. We also must explain to them that our actions or decisions are not meant to thwart Spartan influence, but to allow for balance and moderation, lest no vengeful feelings are allowed to build up.

But assesing the state of our dominion, I think we have done well. I would ask the council at this moment to lay not only their immediate proposals before us, but also their ideas about our future endeavours. Should we hold ourselves to our promise to Sinope and go east? Should we try to establish contact with our brothers in the West? Should we focus on trade or upon war?

It is now that we must ask ourselves these questions, now that the war with Macedon, which has dominated our speech and our lives, is drawing to an end. For myself I believe a promise is a promise. We must start thinking about aiding Sinope. On the other hand my cousin arrived yesterday from the city of Kyrene. This polis is hemmed between Carthage and our Ptolemaic friends and they are looking for a protector to stay out of any struggles. Maybe we should send some envoys to see what can be done. I PROPOSE we send a diplomat and a spy to Kyrene.

Either way we should use this period of semi-peace to re-equip our army. New threaths will appear, and they might prove to hard for our levied forces. Let us not forget Epirus. they want macedonian land, and they care not if it is cuurently controled by us or by Macedon.
I PROPOSE once again, as did Leumenes before me, to recall the Athenian army. To gradually disband our levies (only 1 unit of militia hoplites to be maintained) and to replace them with professional hoplites. I also PROPOSE to build up military infrasctructure in Athens and trade infrastructure in the other poleis under our influence.
The same goes for our fleet, the pride of Athens. I therefore AGREE with my collegue who spoke before me (Hephaestus).

Let us not make quick decisions now and speak of all these matters."

Enyalio sat down and let his slave fetch some refreshments.

[Enyalio]

"Ah, the spartan ambassador has arrived in my short absence. I thank him for his intervention. I partially AGREE with the notion of cooperation concerning the navy. Perhaps an alliance fleet shouls be made available? The Athenian fleet however is our lifesblood. We cannot allow its use by others without consent of this council. What say you fellow-councilors?"

[Paltmull]

The same goes for our fleet, the pride of Athens. I therefore AGREE with my collegue who spoke before me.

Enyalio: You meant to agree with The Blacksmith and not diomede, right? Just to avoid misunderstandings.

Allow me to feel you out on a touchy subject, that of the navy. At present it appears that we Spartans have decided to rebuild our navy, primarily to have one available for when you bar us from using your own. May I propose that we attempt to cooperate more on the use of the Koinon's navy?

Diomedes' proposal raises a very important question, namely this: What is the purpose of the Koinon? Is it to cooperate in defending against foreign threats, or is it to help each other in attacking independent cities and carving out empires? I say it is the first of the two. Therefore, the Athenian fleet should be used only in the interests of either the alliance or Athens. If Sparta wishes to conquer cities for their own glory, then fine, but we should not help them.

Diomede, may I ask you what you want with our fleet? Does Sparta have personal interests in Asia Minor? Just remember whose historical sphere of influence that is...

Anyway, if Spartans at all are allowed to make proposals in our council (which I suppose they aren't), I DISAGREE with Diomedes' proposal. At the moment the alliance should not have any oversea interests. And Sparta should definitely not be allowed to use our navy for their own advantage.

[Enyalio]

Enyalio: You meant to agree with The Blacksmith and not diomede, right? Just to avoid misunderstandings.

Enyalio shook awake from his slumber...

"Hmm, yes, apologies for the misunderstanding. I meant the proposal of Hephaestus (the Blacksmith)."

... and then dozed of again.

[Paltmull]

By the way, if what Diomede says about pella is true; that it is assaulted for the good of the alliance, then i PROPOSE that we ask Sparta to leave Pella neutral (type IV gov) after its conquest, as a gesture of good will. After all, that is what we did with Mytilene.

EDIT: I crossed out the last sentence, since Mytilene, as Molinaargh pointed out, was conquered by the Alliance army; hence its neutrality. I still hold on to my proposal though. If the Spartans claim that their refusal to listen to the Strategos and their attack on Pella were both made for the good of the alliance, then they'd better damn prove it.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I STRONGLY AGREE with your proposal, Paltmull.

Anyway, if Spartans at all are allowed to make proposals in our council (which I suppose they aren't), I DISAGREE with Diomedes' proposal. At the moment the alliance should not have any oversea interests. And Sparta should definitely not be allowed to use our navy for their own advantage.

They are, and we are vice versa; jirisys and I have made some proposals at TWC for example.

Oh and Diomede the sole reason we were reluctant to move the Spartan army with the fleet was because we were not so keen on the "Let's conquer Minor Asia in teh name of Zack Snyder and lulz" proposal which of course even many Spartans found, rather silly. So yes more cooperation with the navy in the future, as long as it is not the spring board to establish some overseas Spartan empire.

[Molinaargh]

By the way, if what Diomede says about pella is true; that it is assaulted for the good of the alliance, then i PROPOSE that we ask Sparta to leave Pella neutral (type IV gov) after its conquest, as a gesture of good will. After all, that is what we did with Mytilene.

It's interesting how the Athenians expect the Spartans to sabotage themselves out of their own free will, and vice versa.

Mytilene remains neutral because the Alliance Army conquered it instead of the Athenian Army, not out of Athenian niceness.