Too Slow ?

[Lemur]

I'm playing a Date campaign on normal, and I tried to go the vassal route. As in, "Allies will stab me in the back as soon as the Shogun gets irate at me, so I'm only gonna have vassals."

This worked for about ten seasons after the realm divide, and then one-by-one my vassals rebelled. Bloody heck. Insufficient boot-on-neckism or something. I think the first mod I would like to see would be one that dials down the insane diplo penalties after the Realm Divide, or at least tones them down on my VASSALS. We're going to rule Nippon together, after all, the Date clan and its loyal vassals. Together! Arm-in-arm! Marching into the future!

[LeftEyeNine]

If a game makes you think at work or in bed, then it's darn good.

At last.

So back to my sluggishness. >:|

[crpcarrot]

If a game makes you think at work or in bed, then it's darn good.

At last.

So back to my sluggishness. >:|

the only games that invaded my dreams

STW
MTW
Football Manager
STW2

[LeftEyeNine]

So my 4th attempt had to end because it was too late to put an end to Shoni's or Sagara's existence on Kyushu.

I tried something new in my 5th go:

I piled up an army, skipped despite Osumo province being set as a quest target and went right to the heart of the Ito clan, Hyuga province. I wanted to make sure that I'm not stuck with progress. Osumo province was grabbed with ease. By that time the island was already occupied by the Otomo. They had severely weakened Shoni at the northern part of the island, so giving a push to recently-captured-by-Shoni Higo was no problem.

I took some time to replenish and go economical while all during these warfare years, I had gone Chi way of martial arts so that I could balance out economy/happiness/growth a bit, which yielded fine results.

As my trade partners fell one after another and since making an alliance with Otomo to feel safe was not received favorably by its opponents such as Matsuda and Chosokabe, my income was severed to a point of bankruptcy, but some fiddling with clans and another thrust towards the northern town of Tsukushi turned out to be a success.

It's 1555 again, 5 provinces in hand.

One clan starting with "O" with "feeble" power to the east coast, last hold of the Otomo in the northeastern town, also the last existence of Amako in the northwestern part.

Practice makes better, if not perfect. Now it's time to dominate whole Kyushu while I'm considered at war with Matsuda, who are "strong" owning 6 provinces and not far from "here.

I never thought this island would be such a mess of clans but it actually worked in my favor.

[Rothe]

I did not get to the divide yet, so I'd like to know how many provinces you can take before it triggers?

I expect that I'd want to capture almost that amount and then begin optimizing for the divide and anticipating attacks.

For me, the hard mode was ok for the battles, but for the campaign it felt a bit too limited as the economy only really allowed ashigaru units to keep the upkeep high enough.

I guess one part of the game is to try and pick out good provinces to conquer before the divide so they still will produce enough income and also have defensible bottlenecks in the map to allow defending with small number of stacks.

I also guess that it is a good idea to save up koku for the divide, so that you can run with a small income and still do some critical repairs/builds/recruits.

[Zarky]

I did not get to the divide yet, so I'd like to know how many provinces you can take before it triggers?

There is no exact number. I'm not sure if campaign difficulty or estimated clan difficulty affect this, but great victories and high daimyo honor also increase clan reputation.
Best you can do is not get great victories after "Shoguns Ire" message and capture couple provinces.

[LeftEyeNine]

1557 Summer and I own all of Kyushu. I've slowed down the conquests to improve the homeland for now.

Having met Takeda clan, I have a question for you:

Those guys own almost most of Central Japan with 11 provinces and I have brought a daughter of the daimyo into the family through marriage, hence building a "Very Friendly" relationship.

The Takeda are currently in war with Ashikaga Shogunate and they are "high"ly likely to accept a Military Alliance.

Does making a military alliance with Takeda at this point automatically make me waging war against the Shogunate ?

[xploring]

This worked for about ten seasons after the realm divide, and then one-by-one my vassals rebelled. Bloody heck. Insufficient boot-on-neckism or something. I think the first mod I would like to see would be one that dials down the insane diplo penalties after the Realm Divide, or at least tones them down on my VASSALS.

Not exactly sure how it works, but there's a mod for realm divide already to make it more playable.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436082

There are mods for morale and unit speed reduction, sounds like they will make battles more like it used to be.

[LeftEyeNine]

Um, what is this "realm divide" thing, if you wouldn't mind ? Something that's hardcoded ?

[Monk]

Um, what is this "realm divide" thing, if you wouldn't mind ? Something that's hardcoded ?

If i'm not mistaken, Realm Divide happens when your reputation bar gets full. Once that happens the Shogun declares you a threat to the safety of Japan and asks all other clans to wage war on you - and they will. The only people who won't immedietly declare war on you are your allies/vassals.

[LeftEyeNine]

If i'm not mistaken, Realm Divide happens when your reputation bar gets full. Once that happens the Shogun declares you a threat to the safety of Japan and asks all other clans to wage war on you - and they will. The only people who won't immedietly declare war on you are your allies/vassals.

"Immediately" not. That's a stress more than a relief. >:|

[Ituralde]

The way I understand it, Realm Divide manifests itself in a huge diplomacy modifier. It starts out slow, so your vassals and allies won't declare on you immediatelly. The longer Realm Divide goes on the larger the diplomacy modifier gets until you get to the point where everyone's at war with you.

The mentioned mod changes this, so that you get a larger initial diplomacy hit, but after that the effect actually wears off instead of getting worse. So you don't end up loosing all your allies and vassals one after another.

[Monk]

There are mods for morale and unit speed reduction, sounds like they will make battles more like it used to be.

Tested out both of them. The unit speed modifiers are nice if you choose the right ones. Some make them too slow, but there's a number of options to choose from so I give it a thumbs up.

Morale mod goes too far in the extreme imo. 50% increase to morale across the board means Ashigaru don't route until they've taken 90% casualties or more. Not what I expect from peasants...

[Lemur]

Not exactly sure how it works, but there's a mod for realm divide already to make it more playable.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436082

Grabbing that immediately. I love this game, but the everybody-against-you thing with the realm divide makes me want to give up on my campaign. There goes trade, since I'm not allowed to trade with other nations, and there go my vassals. IRRITATING! I may re-start a campaign, since being able to have long-term allies and vassals would make a massive difference.

[al Roumi]

Grabbing that immediately. I love this game, but the everybody-against-you thing with the realm divide makes me want to give up on my campaign. There goes trade, since I'm not allowed to trade with other nations, and there go my vassals. IRRITATING! I may re-start a campaign, since being able to have long-term allies and vassals would make a massive difference.

I feel the same. My very friendly ally the chosokabe declared war on me only about 4 turns after everyone else, causing my revenue to go through the floor. Not only had I not really developed my markets and castles properly yet but with the whole world and his wife on my case, what resources I have will be going on troops. I'm a little irked by my readiness to give in and try again but I can't really see much of a long term future on my current revenue base and with so many enemies.

Now that I know the lay of the land a bit better I'm tempted to start anew and either play the game as CA delivered it (anticipating the mob's response -in a gamey way no doubt) or using this mod to play something arguably more consistent and satisfying.

I think I'll do the later as I'd rather not get too gamey.

[Lemur]

Yeah, I don't mind the challenge of everybody getting angry at you and declaring war, it's the inflexibility of the arrangement that bugs me. I should be able to pick off clans, make them outrageous promises and either buy them out of the war or pull them to my side. Having a permanent -200 diplo penalty that never goes away is too much. I'm a big fan of divide and conquer, so that game mechanic takes away a great deal of my strategic joy. Mod installed. New campaign begun. I think I'll go to the other end of the island and try the Shimazu next.

[LeftEyeNine]

Which one is historically accurate, is any comparison viable ? Vanilla or modded ?

[Lemur]

Well, for example the Odas and the Tokugawas managed an alliance that lasted for the lifetime of both warlords, even when Oda Nobunaga tried (and sort of succeeded) to seize the Shogunate. Other alliances and vassal/lord arrangements survived just fine. So the game mechanic, as it's set up right now, is ahistorical. Even people seeking ultimate power still had friends.