Askthepizzaguy Mafia II: The Revengening [Concluded]

**Greyblades** · 05-07-2011, 01:04

Fold.

**Beefy187** · 05-07-2011, 01:39

Vote: All items for Renata

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

**thefluffyone93** · 05-07-2011, 01:47

Everything but the holocron?
WHY.

**Renata** · 05-07-2011, 01:51

Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Vote: Santa's Vodka to Renata
Vote: Gag to Renata
Vote: Tanooki Suit to Renata
Vote: Lucky Badge to Renata
Vote: Omega Virus Sample to Renata
Vote: Custom Beretta to Renata
Vote: Jedi Holocron to me
Vote: Killer Rabbit to Renata
Vote: Security Forcefield to Renata
And with that, I call it a day. See you all after I'm dead.

....

Oh.

**Earthling** · 05-07-2011, 01:56

Originally Posted by Renata

(I do think Earthling is innocent.)

Hate to call out something like this, but this is one of the scummier statements here in a while. You need to explain to me (fortunately it sounds like the sort of thing that can be explained in private) why this is the case. This whole time including through last night, Night Four, you relentlessly called me a liar and implied I was scum. I'd like to hear what changed your mind last night, it could be that you or some contact of yours followed through on a detective scan or something mundane. But you wouldn't just abandon a case and pursue someone like mythmonster randomly so what you're saying does not add up today Renata, especially when your former target was me.

(and the cases on Mythmonster and Visorslash are kinda shabby. I don't know what process you went through, if your goal was to only read their posts alone maybe that's how you arrived at your conclusions. I don't see how you could have arrived at accusing those two and not several others whose behavior is the same if not worse, Warman, Rabbit who showed up late and have just been in about one bandwagon, etc... Those post by post attempted breakdowns emphasize what are probably null tells in points like minor parts of the first lynch on Seon - well Seon and MRD are dead and you weren't in the clear there yourself - or item votes to oneself which a zillion people have done.)

Originally Posted by Renata

There's also a player I think is very likely innocent whose name hasn't really come up as such in public yet (and I'd like to keep it that way). Shlin knows who it is. I'd like to get a bulletproof item and transfer it to him.

Something is extremely wrong here. There is no indication such a thing is possible, at all.

Here's my item votes. Is that it seems rather likely that shlin, who I of course rather believe is Innocent, revived BL, and as such should have future revival ability attempts, so he needs to be kept alive. Not trying to give the chaotics help here but it's obvious enough if it is true, from his faction claim on thread, that the chaotics would figure it out. So he should get some more defense too, might be even more important than BL because he can continue to revive others. And I've got nothing against the Evil Faction, it's only a couple like South Park, Cosa Nostra (sp?) and any unknowns who remain most dangerous for disguised killers (I know nothing about who Cosa Nostra could be and South Park strikes me as where that "strange being" who is a multiple-time nightkiller would fit as a guess) and dooming the rest of the town for their selfnishess rather than factions with many of their evil members dead. But might have a little more to say later about that in general, as I've said in the past I think folks like Bow-wow-wow sharing their info they must have could help the town.

vote: SANTA'S VODKA to Backwards Logic
GAG to shlin
TANOOKI SUIT to Backwards Logic
LUCKY BADGE to shlin
OMEGA VIRUS SAMPLE to shlin
JEDI HOLOCRON to Backwards Logic
Security Forcefield to Backwards Logic
CUSTOM BERETTA, KILLER RABBIT to Backwards Logic

I suppose I should vote, but I don't encourage the mythmonster bandwagon at all, not going to waste the town's credits like that with him and me being the alternatives. I'd love to not have us all lynch a guy who's been surviving night attacks from bad guys (though the one it seems was Jolt) you know but killing another person for no reason is no better. Pending what I might hear from Renata I still suspect Bet: 5 credits on Crazed Rabbit

**mythmonster2** · 05-07-2011, 02:02

Originally Posted by Thefluffyone93

Everything but the holocron?
WHY.

YOU WILL NEVER KNOW! AHAHAHAHAHAH!

**Renata** · 05-07-2011, 02:20

I've never though you were likely scum, Earthling, and I have never encouraged your lynch or your vigging, though I haven't fought very hard against it until now that you would otherwise be the default candidate and I have people I'd much rather see get some credits put on them. Ask ANYONE who I have dealth with privately what I've said to them about you. You just frustrate me beyond all reason.

What I have not done is allow you to distort the record with falsehoods, where I could manage it. And for the most part I haven't defended you in public until now, only corrected a few mistakes like Jolt's yesterday, because having done so innumerable times in games in the past, I have learned that the aggravation I inevitably get from all sides for doing so is not worth it. I'd rather be lynched than spend the amount of time and effort on it it always takes. I can't deal with the drama any more.

You were the alternative candidate to Seon for most of day one. I have a hard time believing that, if you were both scum, other scum would not have flinched in a big way in there somewhere. Nothing like that happened; the moves that look most like potential flinches all came from now-proven innocents. As well, I know you, and this behavior in general, right down to lying and all of that, is typical of you and not a scum tell. But the Seon near-lynch is the biggest thing.

I had some thought earlier today that your apparent role as the Black Knight might possibly indicate a neutral role (Black Knight was 3rd party in that CFC game, not mafia; the mafia were the Knights of Ni), but wasn't one of the early deaths the Killer Rabbit from that game? If so that theory doesn't hold water either.

That's where I am on you right now. I'm not going to talk about it anymore unless someone asks me about it directly.

It is possible to transfer items from player to player; someone I talk to brought it up and I asked about it yesterday. The details are finicky in places, so ask before you do it.

As far as my cases being shabby ... yeah. I don't suck at this game, that's all I'm going to say about that.

**Visor** · 05-07-2011, 02:33

I don't suck at this game, that's all I'm going to say about that.

But you do when trying to determine whether I am scum or not. Twice you've done this to me and twice you've been wrong (This being the second time). :P

I have never played with a lot of you, so I don't know almost anyone here, I don't know how anyone plays. (Except for a couple of people.)

**Earthling** · 05-07-2011, 02:34

To be fair, you and other people are just wrong, I've only lied like 3 or 4 times in at least the past 10 games and everyone who pays attention knows it. That reminds me I actually should ask if people are being serious about asking about my roleclaim or just lying themselves (like Jolt) or plain not paying attention, because I've claimed ability, item, role & faction, and even my playing card in the thread already. Visorslash should ask nicely for a summary if he couldn't be bothered otherwise. But I'm really not lying about anything more this time just like always, it'd just be a repeat of "nope, he can't be Innocent, he's lying." After the lynch: "oh, I guess he was" next game: "Hey Earthling remember when you lied about being Innocent last game..." I already explained that I did lie on purpose about Skooma, first to you in private, but it was for a decent enough reason if only for our factional interests alone, and was also just bad luck, if I'd guessed that Skooma was Clippy instead of just guessing 50/50 he was Rudolph people might still be believing I was a full detective guy or something and the scum would be confused about me even more instead of that I'd just heard of a faction scan. And anything else as I said is completely unimportant or nonsense that you can hardly call anything any more than the Texas jokes.

The one thing is a good point and I would be honest to say I don't know how I could disprove it. It's actually a reasonable hypothesis - a wrong hypothesis, but one nevertheless that could sound decent to a random townie on a random unrelated faction, that I could be a neutral role, the cover/neutral guy on the Python faction. I'm not and I want to clearly say I never said I was, but I could understand if people who (had) tried to accuse me at tried to think of something plausible like that at least. However as I continue to want to help the town and not being easy for the scum to nightkill I know has got to a be a pain for them it would still be a bad reason to go after me even if you did think that. Really it would be great (for me of course anyway) to hear from any remaining Pythons because I would personally worry if there are more out there that they would be the cover roles, though we could only have four total, that's all the possible characters listed anyway.

And yes, I don't really have a motive to get in the way of another random lynch today and like ACIN said I'm not gaining much by talking here so I'll recognize that. But I will say I do not personally believe the case on mythmonster is that great. Between the two I'd even say Visorslash is better. Betting credits on who I think is scum and really hope we get the items to those Innocent evil guys today, so there's that.

**Crazed Rabbit** · 05-07-2011, 02:40

Bet: 19 credits on Earthling.

All you said about MRD was wrong.

CR

**Visor** · 05-07-2011, 02:52

Why the need to reassure people that you will be around to do the other votes later? The first post is excusable under the circumstances, the second looks, as God Emperor noted, like you’re just trying to show you’re acting like a proper townie.

Because inactivity is bad? Just kinda saying that I will be kind of actively doing stuff, not just lurking and random posts.

Posting from phone = scum.

More seriously, this comes right after Romanic’s long accusation post (like five posts later). You can’t find a single word to say about that, but you *can* spend time to explain why you’re not making any other item votes?

It wasn't a phone, it was an iPad. And my computer WAS dead. Ask the hotseat fellas. (Second bit) Cause I'm lazy with typing on that damn thing. :P

The promised response to God Emperor.

Yeah.

Response to my suggestion that people try finding out if resurrection is their hidden power. My don’t you sound enthusiastic. And what’s to organize?

I don't see people organising a reviver. Couldn't we hand some credits to someone to revive townies? At least that was my thinking about that. But I'm probably wrong, as usual. :P

Well that’s a bit of an abrupt switch, but OK.

Fair amount of posts inbetween those though. And the comments from the people made me doubt MRD's scumminess. But the bandwagon was rolling too far ahead, and I didn't want to waste credits. PLus there was always a chance I was wrong, as usual. :P

What the heck was the point of all this? Chaotics have cover roles. His claiming his role would prove nothing one way or another. (Claiming his *actions* might be useful, but that’s not what you’re asking.) You’re just flogging something that doesn’t matter, over and over. Why? Just to make Earthling look bad if he doesn’t answer fast enough?

Uh... yeah. I have a really, really bad memory at stuff like this. I can remember dates, numbers and stuff, but I completely forgot about this. But it would've been nice to see it. :P

This is the post that elevated Visorslash from person of interest to major suspect to me. It’s the last sentence, which seems to have been added in an edit. With that sentence, Visor seems to be trying to deflect any idea that he might already KNOW that Earthling is telling the truth with his role claim, which would be the case for chaotics (more or less, barring any further serial killers or whatever) but not for regular evils.

Thing is – why should it even occur to you that you would need to make such a disclaimer? Clearly you wrote that first part, then had a moment of “oh I just said something I shouldn’t have”, but how many townies would it even occur to that they’d said something suspicious? My guess is not a whole heck of a lot.

Yes, it was edited in. I don't understand what you're saying. :(. I wrote the second bit after reading someone's elses post about a cover role.) Well I have a habit of saying crap that gets me lynched. And thinking ahead in mafia games ain't really my strong suit. *Example: THe CHamber).

I am pretty self conscious of what I type, yes.

And then this, 15 minutes later, a further disclaimer that oh no you didn’t mean you would *kill* Earthling, of course you’re just talking about the lynch, haha.

Well I don't have a kill ability. SO I can't really.

And I’ll stop here. Any particular reason you’re so interested in bulletproof items, Visor? More to the point, any reason you didn’t *say* why you’re so interested in bulletproof items? You’d think someone who’d been attacked would be trumpeting it from the heavens. I assume the vig(s) did follow through, but failed.

Wait, were you getting people to vig me?

I want the bulletproof items cause I don't want to die at night. :D Or at day for that matter, but I'm not a particularly good avioder of being lynched.

**B-Wing** · 05-07-2011, 03:25

If the previous tally was accurate, the currtent tally of bets stands as such:

100 on Earthling - (Visorslash 2, dcmort 40, Psychonaut 39, Greyblades 30, Crazed Rabbit 19)
87 on mythmonster - (Renata 40, DIY 3, God Emperor 10, Romanic 10, 4 DiamondEye, 5 Skooma Addict, 15 ACIN)
20 on Visorslash - (Link 20)
5 on Crazed Rabbit - (Earthling 5)

Renata's case against Visorlash was more convincing to me than the case against mythmonster, especially after myth's (apparently legit) revelation that he was already planning on dropping mafia altogether. But Visor clearly isn't going to get lynched at this point. Earthling leads the bets and has been a controversial figure pretty much the whole game. He seems sincere about trying to find the bad guys, but he's made some contradictory statements and is way too talkative for my tastes.

So for all practical purposes, it's down to Earthling and mythmonster now. And either way, a lot of people's credits are going to be wasted. I think Earthling is the better lynch right now, and since he's already leading, I'll put my credits there.

bet: 10 credits on Earthling

Originally Posted by Greyblades

If it turns out that fluffy and backwards logic are scumbuddies or at least on the same team, I'd like to say I called it.

They aren't on the same faction, I know that for a fact.

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Anyway he [Backwards Logic] might not be a townie, remember the town is evil; glorious light doesnt sound very evil, he could have been revived and recruited from a good aligned faction.

I had thought of this possibility, too. What if one of the Chaotics can use revive to recruit previously dead players? Even if not, there's got to be some drawback or special requirements to reviving. Perhaps it's a one-time only ability? This is the only revive we've seen, after all. Regardless, I don't really suspect Backward Logic just because he's been revived, but I am curious why we haven't already seen any revives until now.

EDIT: Also...
Vote: SECURITY FORCEFIELD to myself

**Zack** · 05-07-2011, 04:02

Earthling, can you just not be like this one game? Please?

**Visor** · 05-07-2011, 04:08

Renata's case against Visorlash was more convincing to me than the case against mythmonster

What about my defence? Why do you think I'm scum for?

**Death is yonder** · 05-07-2011, 04:25

For what its worth, I do think that pursuing Earthling's case is just a gigantic distraction. Jolt was most likely killed to further frame him, particular since Jolt was one of his critics.

In any case, its evidently working, people are wasting credits voting Earthling, and those who are voting myth (or for that matter any other alternative suspect) are forced into betting higher.

This is turning into another mini MRD vs civplayah, but I'd wager that there's at least one chaotic on the earthling wagon trying to push it so that everyone's credits get wasted.

I mean like if you spend 20 credits as a scumbag and manage to force a mislynch, you've just wasted more than a hundred credits, the ratio is frightening.

But Visor clearly isn't going to get lynched at this point.

There is still more than 24 hours IIRC

dcmort 40, Psychonaut 39, Greyblades 30, Crazed Rabbit 19)

These people need to explain truly why they are voting so high. Just because Earthling was wrong about MRD isn't going to cut it, people are wrong a lot in mafia and if Earthling truly was a Chaotic then going after MRD for multiple rounds and just thrusting himself into the spotlight was just plain silly.

I mean coming up with a very public scheme on round one just to attract attention? Which by the way got quite a few people voting him just for it? Come on. His teammates would have been yelling at him to keep quiet, but what's happening?

Not to mention, he's been attacked multiple times already (assuming he is the black knight) at night, at least one by a figure who has been killing. A quick recheck shows that on night 2 an unknown assailant blasts his hand off, and on night 3, a fellow with a motif of power in the write up tries to attack him, likely the person that killed B-Ray on night 1.

Hence I'm inclined to think that at least one of the attacks on B-Ray was a chaotic.

**Seon** · 05-07-2011, 04:25

Listen to Renata for once. You people are wasting your money on Earthling. He's always like this.

**B-Wing** · 05-07-2011, 04:29

Originally Posted by Visorslash

What about my defence? Why do you think I'm scum for?

*shrug* Your defense wasn't bad. I didn't feel strongly about you being scum in the first place. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, of Renata's two cases, the one against mythmonster was weaker, but it's the one which has gained popular support. Earthling seems more suspicious than either of you, and I'm voting for him, not you.

**Seon** · 05-07-2011, 04:30

Originally Posted by B_Ray

*shrug* Your defense wasn't bad. I didn't feel strongly about you being scum in the first place. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, of Renata's two cases, the one against mythmonster was weaker, but it's the one which has gained popular support. Earthling seems more suspicious than either of you, and I'm voting for him, not you.

Oh come on now, people, think. You have absolutely, absolutely nothing on Earthling. Nothing at all except that he talks too much.

**Earthling** · 05-07-2011, 04:36

Originally Posted by Visorslash

What about my defence?

I don't think it's a great case either but mythmonster has given a reasonable defense, and not complying with Renata trying to control others' night actions for her own goals (who is being vig-targeted anyway?) isn't a good reason for me to go after him. There's not too much of a case on you again as I said, but between you and mythmonster, but for the purposes of lurking/not reading the thread and lying (like you keep ignoring that I actually roleclaimed)/bandwagon voting you're not one of the more Innocent looking either. You'll notice I'm not really encouraging anyone to go after either of you, I'd much prefer a couple other candidates.

(bolding here just to help people notice as appears to be a useful convention)

That does remind me to point out to B_Ray that less than halfway through the day there's nothing a sure thing at all though, that's lazy. You do realize that just two people could basically outbet all the wagons so far today. In fact, that's a significant worry today, we're at the point where if people like Bow-wow-wow (or Renata again) are hiding scan info just to make gains for their teams they could show up late at the last minute to kill some other guy/factional enemy with a couple big bets.

Death is yonder, I am strongly of the belief now that Jolt, neutral half-killer or whatever he was, attacked me the second time, he was clearly a Jedi/Sith Lord and that clearly triggered his random rants about Jedi Power and whatnot. First one I have no more knowledge on who it was than anyone, and I don't really have an idea of who the green-eyed guy or winged-mace guy are supposed to even be as characters either; already commented on a couple others again. As I have no clue how much vigging or attempted vigging is going on that further throws guesses off though, except those two characters come up again and again so are probably the chaotic killers.

had to edit this in crosspost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4iVQyp9L4

**mythmonster2** · 05-07-2011, 04:36

Quite honestly, even I think the case against Earthling is weak. I'd rather me die than him. Hell, if I could, I'd bet on myself just to have him live. Actually... can I do that?
Also, for what it's worth, my vig targets were Link (last night) and Greyblades (night before that, but I couldn't go through with it due to getting in orders too late).

**Link** · 05-07-2011, 04:38

Originally Posted by Zack

...Didn't you just do the same thing a few pages ago?

No, I didn't.
Now what in the hell is this about me getting vigged?

**mythmonster2** · 05-07-2011, 04:45

Ask Renata about it. She has reasons, though I'm suspecting it was just a false lead she gave to me to distract me.

**Earthling** · 05-07-2011, 04:46

I tend to agree. I'd really like to know what is going on, Renata claimed that Believer for instance gave her at least one scan result very early in the game and Believer's recent posts in thread seemed like subtle backscratching to distance himself from Renata. Believer, why so critical of Renata today if you've been feeding her scan results all along, presumably no awesome reason behind that cause you couldn't have revealed much in private, unless maybe you found out you were faction allies.

Also, fluffy, care to answer if it's true that Renata/Believer/someone they knew scanned you as Bizarro? You've never even addressed it though if it was a false scan claim from Renata you'd think someone would be all over that. If you're just an evil Bizarro guy it's already in the thread so not much use hiding it, just as with Skooma, and you might as well work together then. I will be serious that I as a Python am willing to forget about factional conflicts though, we need to focus on the chaotics. Except whatever network Renata thinks she has going on is probably hiding info and plans from the town without a lot of results or any reasons I know of, that shouldn't be going on just to benefit one or two factions at this point.

**Earthling** · 05-07-2011, 04:49

actually real quick, mythmonster, you claimed you were Psychotic Mafia, but who are the Psychotic's enemies for the rest of us who wouldn't have a clue? If you really don't want to share don't but it can't do anything but help you assuming you already made a true claim there, and could really help explain other people's actions/responses now or in the future, if they are just after factional infighting.

**mythmonster2** · 05-07-2011, 05:01

I will not betray the Psycho Mafia, no matter how insignificant the info.

Also a little experiment.
Bet: 50 on SkoomaAddict

**thefluffyone93** · 05-07-2011, 05:16

Originally Posted by Earthling

Also, fluffy, care to answer if it's true that Renata/Believer/someone they knew scanned you as Bizarro? You've never even addressed it though if it was a false scan claim from Renata you'd think someone would be all over that. If you're just an evil Bizarro guy it's already in the thread so not much use hiding it, just as with Skooma, and you might as well work together then. I will be serious that I as a Python am willing to forget about factional conflicts though, we need to focus on the chaotics. Except whatever network Renata thinks she has going on is probably hiding info and plans from the town without a lot of results or any reasons I know of, that shouldn't be going on just to benefit one or two factions at this point.

As far as I know, I was never scanned.
But reveal I shall!
GAZE UPON MY EPICNESS.

**Visor** · 05-07-2011, 05:27

)/bandwagon voting you're not one of the more Innocent looking either.

I actually voted on suspects BEFORE the bandwagon started. So that's not right?

Myth, we should go full out on Renata instead for suspecting us. :P

**Jolt** · 05-07-2011, 06:00

[QUOTE=Death is yonder;2053308353]For what its worth, I do think that pursuing Earthling's case is just a gigantic distraction. Jolt was most likely killed to further frame him, particular since Jolt was one of his critics.

On the contrary, at best it eliminates a Mafioso, at the very least it eliminates a liar who killed a townie and is persistently confusing town.

In any case, its evidently working, people are wasting credits voting Earthling, and those who are voting myth (or for that matter any other alternative suspect) are forced into betting higher.

Originally Posted by Death is yonder

This is turning into another mini MRD vs civplayah, but I'd wager that there's at least one chaotic on the earthling wagon trying to push it so that everyone's credits get wasted.

I mean like if you spend 20 credits as a scumbag and manage to force a mislynch, you've just wasted more than a hundred credits, the ratio is frightening.

Then you have two choices: Either you keep at it, waste your credits, and Earthling turns out Evil, and you get narrow the suspect list down to a handful of people who had the highest bets on Earthling or betted high, late in the turn.
Or you can lower your credits and lynch Earthling. The benefits range from best possible to good.

There is still more than 24 hours IIRC

Originally Posted by Death is yonder

These people need to explain truly why they are voting so high. Just because Earthling was wrong about MRD isn't going to cut it, people are wrong a lot in mafia and if Earthling truly was a Chaotic then going after MRD for multiple rounds and just thrusting himself into the spotlight was just plain silly.

What? He counter-claimed MRD's true role on purpose. He wasn't just wrong. He pushed for MRD's lynch with any means available, even counter-claiming a true role, which as you may imagine, you simply do not do if you're townie.

**Earthling** · 05-07-2011, 06:11

Except that didn't happen. Much more fun even to listen to Seon than a dead, lying neutral. A full Day before MRD's (edit - near, Day Three that is) lynch I claimed (in private to someone who should have been sympathetic for factional rivalry reasons, by the way) that Skooma was the Rudolph role. Yes, I only knew of a faction scan that he was Bizarro so it was just a guess and a lie. This happened before MRD claimed anything or anyone that I know of knew anything about him, and after he claimed, was not part of anybody's reason for trying to lynch MRD and nobody said it was. You weren't paying attention or didn't read the thread.

**Backwards Logic** · 05-07-2011, 06:20

I don't like either of these lynches to be honest. Earthling, at worst, is neutral/serial killer due to his contradictory statements and his view people should spend a lot of credits to lynch people. Since I've played a few games with him, I know he's always this talkative and, at times, this annoying. I doubt he's chaotic, but given his track record this game it's a nice thought that he is.

The mythmonster wagon I don't buy either, though I'd take this case over the one on Earthling. So I'm going to present another option, and a direction I feel is very much worth pursuing.

Given MRD's and Earthling's back and forth for seemingly the entirety of the game, I've felt the chaotics would have had a very, very easy time blending in. After all, it's exactly what I would have done - blend in with the noise and buy another day. With my limited time, I began going through the thread searching for people who made, more or less, seemingly worthless posts by either jumping on a bandwagon, saying something inconsequential, or something similar of the sort. And I came up with one name that I think is our best chance yet.

Autolycus.

One, he's made all of six posts this game, most of which involve bandwagoning of somesort. Numero Uno: