Askthepizzaguy Mafia II: The Revengening [Concluded]

[Major Robert Dump]

These bets are light weight. I know this guy who got 210 bet against him. FYI u can combine the Butt X-Ray with a bus driver item to make a Butt Bus X-Ray, which not only switches targets actions but also cancels the actions and cancels the bus drive and reflects on the user so he silences himself. Its pretty awesome.

[Renata]

But you do when trying to determine whether I am scum or not. Twice you've done this to me and twice you've been wrong (This being the second time). :P

I have never played with a lot of you, so I don't know almost anyone here, I don't know how anyone plays. (Except for a couple of people.)

*sigh*

[Renata]

Bet: 19 credits on Earthling.

All you said about MRD was wrong.

CR

This is your first substantial bet of the game, isn't it?

Weren't you saying at some point how Earthling AND MRD are probably innocent? This is an honest question; I remember some people doing it but can't remember for sure if you were one. I don't have time to check right now.

[Renata]

Wait, were you getting people to vig me?

*nod* You should have had two attempts against you last night. I assumed the bulletproof item votes were the result of that. Did you get any sign of it having happened?

[Renata]

Renata's case against Visorlash was more convincing to me than the case against mythmonster, especially after myth's (apparently legit) revelation that he was already planning on dropping mafia altogether.

Which revelation had almost nothing to do with my case, which was based 99% on what he did and not on what he did NOT do. And which revelation has nothing to do with his refusal to defend himself while simultaneously showing evidence (by his quick response) that he is still paying attention to the game. And which revelation has nothing to do with his offering of a vig item he's never to my knowledge used and a Pyschotic Mafia affiliation as proxies for actual reasons why he should live.

In short, you dismiss him way too easily. Are you Psychotic Mafia, B-ray, or is there another reason?

[Renata]

Quite honestly, even I think the case against Earthling is weak. I'd rather me die than him. Hell, if I could, I'd bet on myself just to have him live. Actually... can I do that?
Also, for what it's worth, my vig targets were Link (last night) and Greyblades (night before that, but I couldn't go through with it due to getting in orders too late).

You never acknowledged receipt of the Link PM, much less that you had gone through with it. Did you?

And yeah, you actually could bet on yourself. Planning to?

[Renata]

Ask Renata about it. She has reasons, though I'm suspecting it was just a false lead she gave to me to distract me.

'Twas. You should have had only a 10% of so chance of success if legit. I'm suspicious of Link, but he's not at the top of the list.

[Renata]

Except that didn't happen. Much more fun even to listen to Seon than a dead, lying neutral. A full Day before MRD's (edit - near, Day Three that is) lynch I claimed (in private to someone who should have been sympathetic for factional rivalry reasons, by the way) that Skooma was the Rudolph role. Yes, I only knew of a faction scan that he was Bizarro so it was just a guess and a lie. This happened before MRD claimed anything or anyone that I know of knew anything about him, and after he claimed, was not part of anybody's reason for trying to lynch MRD and nobody said it was. You weren't paying attention or didn't read the thread.

You keep making assumptions about faction rivalry that are not precisely true, Earthling. I'm not willing to say more not knowing how many people you've claimed my faction to, but you're just wrong here.

[Renata]

(snip autolycus case)

I do like this case. I'm rather wedded to my own, too, and don't know why you are not seeing what I am seeing (explain? Because MM obviously isn't going to defend himself), but there being another good option on the table with some moral weight (so to speak) behind it makes me happier about this:

fold, bet 4: mythmonster2

I have to reduce it; I might not be around for the rest of the day, and there's nothing resembling a consensus yet.

[Renata]

Last thing I have time for (except looking up CR's history): the vig items.

They could be given to Backwards Logic today, with the possibility he will pass them on. The only thing is, the only person who would be able to use them tonight is him (and only if he doesn't pass them again himself until tomorrow); that's the way the rules work. I think it's probably worth it. The individual vigs can talk to him about it if you want, or make bids yourself in public if you want to do that. I won't have time to follow up, so it's up to you.

[Renata]

OK, checked. Never mind my question, Crazed Rabbit; I must have been thinking of someone else.

[Visor]

*sigh*

Haha. ;)

*nod* You should have had two attempts against you last night. I assumed the bulletproof item votes were the result of that. Did you get any sign of it having happened?

Nope. You guys must've failed hard. It said I wasn't attacked last night. Either your vigs ain't following through or their attacks didn't even go through.

But I suspected I was going to be attacked last night, so I got me some protection. Which is what I'll be doing this night as well. ;)

[shlin28]

I am still not sure about mythmonster, the whole "I am going to quit thing" does suggest that he is innocent, but Renata does bring up some interesting points against that (nowhere near conclusive though!). Earthling is also an unknown quality to me - precisely what has he done in previous games that has led to this whole Earthling-hate thing? Neither right now looks to be really scummy, so I can only Wager 5 credits on autolycus to back up Logic's case I guess. I doubt I'll make much difference because I have like no credits, but I suppose this may get others to change votes too...

Also,
Vote: Custom Beretta to Backwards Logic
Vote: Killer Rabbit to Backwards Logic
Unvote: JEDI HOLOCRON to Backwards Logic, Anyone who hasn't got an item yet who wants this investigation item?
Unvote: Tanooki Suit to Backwards Logic, Vote: Tanooki Suit to shlin28. May I have this Logic? I am feeling very vulnerable now after realising that I won't be the most protected person ever

Renata I think has asked for the GAG a while ago, but does anyone else want it?

[thefluffyone93]

I wouldn't mind having the ability to prevent the wall'o text virus from spreading.

[Zack]

Renata, there is a multi-quote button.

[Ironside]

I had thought of this possibility, too. What if one of the Chaotics can use revive to recruit previously dead players? Even if not, there's got to be some drawback or special requirements to reviving. Perhaps it's a one-time only ability? This is the only revive we've seen, after all. Regardless, I don't really suspect Backward Logic just because he's been revived, but I am curious why we haven't already seen any revives until now.

Reviving is a 180 credit abillity+ 80% odds of success. That makes it rare. It also grants you a free 40% revival action after that. If the Chaotics could recruit through revival, then the town is pretty much doomed after 2-3 recruits.
Thus, Backwards Logic is pretty much the most cleared person in the game.
So:
Vote: Custom Beretta to Backwards Logic
Killer Rabbit to Backwards Logic
Santa's Vodka to Backwards Logic
Security Forcefield to Backwards Logic
Lucky Badge to Backwards Logic

Tanooki Suit to shlin28

Bet: 5 credit on mythmonster

I don't think Earthling is guilty, outside his less than stellar behavior. And the case on mythmonster got some points.

[Jolt]

Except that didn't happen. Much more fun even to listen to Seon than a dead, lying neutral. A full Day before MRD's (edit - near, Day Three that is) lynch I claimed (in private to someone who should have been sympathetic for factional rivalry reasons, by the way) that Skooma was the Rudolph role. Yes, I only knew of a faction scan that he was Bizarro so it was just a guess and a lie. This happened before MRD claimed anything or anyone that I know of knew anything about him, and after he claimed, was not part of anybody's reason for trying to lynch MRD and nobody said it was. You weren't paying attention or didn't read the thread.

Renata's got it covered.

[Beskar]

Renata's got it covered.

Fixed.

[Greyblades]

Quite honestly, even I think the case against Earthling is weak. I'd rather me die than him. Hell, if I could, I'd bet on myself just to have him live. Actually... can I do that?
Also, for what it's worth, my vig targets were Link (last night) and Greyblades (night before that, but I couldn't go through with it due to getting in orders too late).

Bet 10 credits on mythmonster2.

[God Emperor]

Seriously Renata ^^ That's just way too many posts in a row.
I don't see the case on Autolycus at all.. he has 6 posts, he is joining bandwagons, and he does not follow up on the item vote statement.. To me this suggests a lack of interest in the game, more than anything else. . I would also like to point out a part

[B]
And with that, I call it a day. See you all after I'm dead.

What happened to this mythmonster? 'see you when I'm dead', but in this situation it actually meant that you posted more than ever before, and making a huge bet with apparently little reason. So what was the 'see you when I'm dead' for?

Quite honestly, even I think the case against Earthling is weak. I'd rather me die than him. Hell, if I could, I'd bet on myself just to have him live. Actually... can I do that?
Also, for what it's worth, my vig targets were Link (last night) and Greyblades (night before that, but I couldn't go through with it due to getting in orders too late).

After such a statement I really expect you to follow up on this and vote yourself Mythmonster.. Just to show me that this isn't another feint.

I will not betray the Psycho Mafia, no matter how insignificant the info.

Also a little experiment.
Bet: 50 on SkoomaAddict

no it would appear that the above was just another feint.. It would be nice to see some more bets piled on mythmonster (or better alternatively, lower those extremely high bets!)

[mythmonster2]

Stuff got interesting. What can I say? Also, I needed to confirm that voting myself is indeed possible, and I'm still a bit fuzzy on that. As for the bet... as I said, an experiment, though Skooma not responding is seriously putting a dent into it.

[B-Wing]

Fold
My suspicion of Earthling is wavering. As active as he's been in this game, you'd think he'd be talking us into oblivion now that his neck's on the chopping block. But he's been relatively quiet. I still don't buy the heat on mythmonster at all. Why's he so adamant about getting himself lynched instead of Earthling? The only explanation I can see is that he sincerely believes Earthling is innocent, he knows that he himself is innocent, and since he's ready to drop out anyway, he'd rather die instead of an active townie. I don't understand how he can be so sure of Earthling's innocence, though.

If I haven't missed anything (and I probably have), the tally stands at:

100 on Earthling - (Visorslash 2, dcmort 40, Psychonaut 39, Greyblades 30, Crazed Rabbit 19)
66 on mythmonster - (Renata 4, D.i.Y. 3, God Emperor 10, Romanic 10, DiamondEye 4, Skooma Addict 5, A.C.I.N. 15, Ironside 5, Greyblades 10)
55 on autolycus (shlin28 5, Backward Logic 50)
50 on Skooma Addict - (mythmonster2 50)
20 on Visorslash - (Link 20)
5 on Crazed Rabbit - (Earthling 5)
5 on autolycus - (shlin28 5)

Anyone got an item vote tally?

[Diamondeye]

Seriously, Believer, did you miss that Kagemusha is dead? You can trust him all you like unless you think he's doing this for the lulz; the question is his judgment. He's wrong about my behavior in that game. I was innocent for about 2/3 of it, and once recruited spent about 24 hours posting up a storm then all but disappeared into "don't look at me" mode.

This might just be helpful but it looks like a flinch to me, Renata.

Earthling, can you just not be like this one game? Please?

What he said(!)

Also, shlin, I made it pretty clear earlier that I wanted the Holocron. Puh-lease.

[Earthling]

Ok, because I was in total disbelief that this was allowed and intended, I asked about item transferring rules. Apparently, everyone in the game can freely give away items to others, doesn't seem to even count as an action. This is what I heard back:

-You don't have to declare your item in the thread, you can do this at Day or Night Phase, and so on
-You can just send a message, give [my item] to [other guy] and that's it

Now, I think it's rather upsetting that there was not any indication this was even possible within the rules and it probably screwed some people over in the past, folks like MRD could have wanted to give their items away before being lynched and he almost certainly would have. It also really changes the dynamics of the game here on out, because any possible scum about to be lynched/killed or whatever gets to give away items to their friends for free. That's on top of the possibility of just trading stuff around for abilities - vigs, scans, etc... in general that a lot of us didn't know existed. So at least Renata and her gang of whomever could in fact be doing this, it's legitimate for any player without any special abilities.

I also had some thoughts on factions. First, for people who haven't been reading, a summary of what's been said in public:
Skooma is Bizarro; Renata claims fluffy is Bizarro, shlin is Evil Mafia, and so is the revived Backwards Logic. I'm Python. Mythmonster claims Psychotic here today. A lot of these factions are really hurting and we would be better off working together against the chaotics, I'm not and haven't wasted my time or credits on attacks on Skooma or something just for his faction. We know people have scanner items as they were voted them, Bow-wow-wow for instance, and it's not helping the town at this point to not share some useful info. To confirm what's known about remainders of weak factions, and figure out which large/unknown factions (South Park, Cosa Nostra apparently have almost no deaths, and their could be a tenth one out there) because as time goes on these whole factions could be organized and even acting against the whole team: mafia victory just for themselves.


And one more comment on unknown/uncertain faction info but why there really ought to be transparency from a lot more people, we know of almost no factions and their goals in wiping out which others besides the Pythons and Bizarros. For instance, unless Renata managed a bus driver or can fool scans somehow, she's been faction scanned but won't admit to her faction in public and I really don't like what she could be after because of that, she's already misled people about not being interested in factional goals when she's been hiding scans, info, and vig attempts whatever character she is. I still would like her to publicly state her faction and its enemies, it's not like that will even make a difference to the chaotics in making her more of a target at this point if they wanted to go after her, only help townies get some grounding. Somebody needs to follow up on this in the next Day or two anyway, maybe another scan from a different source tonight, it also looks really, really obvious that Believer is allied with Renata for some reason unknown to the public, and that's bad. At best they are same faction members but who knows what else could be going on with neutrals, vigilantes trying to vig random people for seemingly no reason, etc... to all have been in on that night action organizing group.

[Link]

tl;dr

[Jolt]

Fold
My suspicion of Earthling is wavering. As active as he's been in this game, you'd think he'd be talking us into oblivion now that his neck's on the chopping block. But he's been relatively quiet.

Actually, I believe he went through the last 2 days, and noticed that every time he posted something, he managed to dig himself into a bigger hole. Since in his facts he managed to counter-claim a correct claim, and then lynch MRD with his unfallible case, and then had the nerve of vaguely accusing me and CR of being scum (If anything, we'd be shut up as he was pushing through a townie lynch), and again, I was a Mafia-killed Neutral, he probably realized that opening his mouth to spout accusations was not that good of a strategy for surviving today's lynch.

[Jolt]

Bet 10 credits on mythmonster2.

Nope. You're Chaotic.

[Greyblades]

Nope what?

Fold
My suspicion of Earthling is wavering. As active as he's been in this game, you'd think he'd be talking us into oblivion now that his neck's on the chopping block. But he's been relatively quiet. I still don't buy the heat on mythmonster at all. Why's he so adamant about getting himself lynched instead of Earthling? The only explanation I can see is that he sincerely believes Earthling is innocent, he knows that he himself is innocent, and since he's ready to drop out anyway, he'd rather die instead of an active townie. I don't understand how he can be so sure of Earthling's innocence, though.

If I haven't missed anything (and I probably have), the tally stands at:

100 on Earthling - (Visorslash 2, dcmort 40, Psychonaut 39, Greyblades 30, Crazed Rabbit 19)
66 on mythmonster - (Renata 4, D.i.Y. 3, God Emperor 10, Romanic 10, DiamondEye 4, Skooma Addict 5, A.C.I.N. 15, Ironside 5, Greyblades 10)
55 on autolycus (shlin28 5, Backward Logic 50)
50 on Skooma Addict - (mythmonster2 50)
20 on Visorslash - (Link 20)
5 on Crazed Rabbit - (Earthling 5)
5 on autolycus - (shlin28 5)

Anyone got an item vote tally?

I thought I folded the 30 on eathling. Just in case
fold,
bet 20 on mythmonster2.

[Earthling]

then had the nerve of vaguely accusing me and CR of being scum (If anything, we'd be shut up as he was pushing through a townie lynch),

Gee, Jolt, ignoring your other lies, but you turned out to be a neutral who had almost certainly been attacking people at night, with a couple of writeups very much seeming to match your role. And I am still accusing Rabbit today if you supposedly just didn't read again, he's done nothing but lurk and show up for a couple bandwagon votes for no reason. (or more likely lied about his reasons, like when he said he wagered a lot on the MRD/civplayah wagon day solely because he thought something was funny)

[Jolt]

Gee, Jolt, ignoring your other lies, but you turned out to be a neutral who had almost certainly been attacking people at night, with a couple of writeups very much seeming to match your role. And I am still accusing Rabbit today if you supposedly just didn't read again, he's done nothing but lurk and show up for a couple bandwagon votes for no reason. (or more likely lied about his reasons, like when he said he wagered a lot on the MRD/civplayah wagon day solely because he thought something was funny)

I'd say that there are probably more Siths and whatnot in the Space Mafia. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked Greyblades if he was the Black Knight when he was attacked by the Jedi/Sith fellow, when it turned you were the Black Knight. Though it continues to be a lot funny that you of all people claim you are accusing them for lieing about their reasons when you lied through and through to get a townie lynched.

If Myth turns out a townie, then I'm much more certain that Greyblades is Chaotic than I've ever been about you. This vote of his was such a tell.