Askthepizzaguy Mafia II: The Revengening [Concluded]

[Earthling]

I haven't lied since what, Day Three? And the only thing I ever lied about that was significant in any way was telling Renata I did a night action different from what I did. (and considering she was a serial killer, and the other option of following Renata's orders to do stuff like vigilante other townies was what many of you chose, it wasn't the best choice but it certainly wasn't the worst)

ACIN has lied several dozen times since yesterday's lynch, plus things earlier in the thread remain scummy.

[Crazed Rabbit]

issaikhaan was busy changing his name for the umpteenth time, when he was attacked by a vampire wielding a medieval spiked mace, and he was bludgeoned until he was unrecognizable. The killer with black wings began to feast on the heart of fallen khaan, to gain his courage.

I know who that is. In the previous game he was force converted from a neutral role into a serial killer role.

CR

[Romanic]

Hey why are we only 4 to vote at this point? Why are some of us waiting to place their vote?

@Arpeg: You need to unvote Beefy, because BL said so.

@acin: vote now please.

@Beefy: Where are you?

@Winston: Even if you don't know, you need to vote. Do something, where's the WH that I know? The one who's trying to figure stuff?

@Greyblades: I feel like you haven't placed a solid vote since 1956 (or was it Day8?). It's time to stop defending yourself and stop acting like your a victim. If you don't want to find who's are the remaining chaotics, here's what will happen:

fold; bet 88 credits on Greyblades

Here's a list of your today's posts. I don't see you helping.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What the fig? Good lord how can you lot be so bloody thick. You know what, screw it I've allready made my defense here;

If it sways you, good for you, otherwise you deserve the ending you get. I'm giving all my items to Earthling just out of spite, you cant steal the things off him so easily.
Special mentions go to kagemusha for using me to roleblock earthling last night then turning on me today. Top notch.

*grumbes*One time I manage to prove my innocence without doing something stupid and its not enough for these people.*grumbles*

Self defending. Feels like a victim.

I'm takling bets on how much they panic when I turn out town as well.

Fear tactics.

I doubt it because it failed. 10% doesnt realy go very far. Pity its irrelivant because you're a confirmed townie and roleblocking isnt exactly incriminating, I dont realy understand why you care if its proven or not.

Failed attempts is a perfect alibi. Self defending.

Lets see, I turned up lynching a townie leader to lynch a chaotic when I had a fair chance of getting the town leader/serial-killer-about-to-win lynched... I'd say that is enough.

Self defending.

They go into denial: 2-1
They lynch at random: 3-1
They lynch the confirmed townies 5-1
They manage to lynch earthling 10-1

Hrm.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Bet: 10 credits Greyblades

[Romanic]

That sounds plausible. All right. Lets give you benefit of doubt and Fold and bet 10 on Winston Hughes. As far as i know we do not have any accoutability of your actions so far. Care to elaborate?

I don't approve of lynching Winston. I've told you why I think he's innocent privately but let me say it again here.

On Night 8 shlin busdrived me with Warman, and the writeup showed that I was attacked by Sephiroth. The attacked was redirected to Warman, so was a protective shield, that Winston is the only one claiming to have done. And Sephiroth killed Warman despite the protective shield. Nobody else claimed having protecting me on N8, and even Arpeg was supposed to protect me but he admitted failing to send orders.

So Winston was the one protecting me, that's one action accounted for.

Winston also claimed to have stolen Psychonaut on Night 8, and got 8 credits. I was shadowing Winston's move, to steal Psychonaut, and I also got 8 credits so Winston is telling the truth about that action. That's two actions accounted for.

Unless you think the chaotic have three actions per night, Winston is clean, as he's got two actions accounted for on Night 8 and cannot be Black Wings or Sephiroth.

[Romanic]

Tally.

98 Greyblades (Romanic 88, acin 10)
20 Beefy (Arpeg)
10 Winston (Kagemusha 10)
10 acin (Earthling 10)
---
3 not voting (Beefy, Greyblades, Winston)

[Visor]

Romanichine, cut Greyblades some slack. Both me and him have been taking a crapload of crap from Earthling. Now that I'm dead, he's gone back to him.

[Choxorn]

Really? I think Earthling's been going after ACIN more than Greyblades.

[Romanic]

Romanichine, cut Greyblades some slack. Both me and him have been taking a crapload of crap from Earthling. Now that I'm dead, he's gone back to him.

I don't care about what Earthling said about him, in fact I'm skimming most of Earthling's post by now. What I care about is seeing someone claiming he's Town, and not voting for three days, not making a case on anyone, and being mostly self-defending. Does he care about finding a chaotic? If he does, I need to see some kind of proof.

[Kagemusha]

Well i am now convinced with Winston.He simply cant be the chaotic. So that leaves us with little choice. fold and bet 100 credits on Arpeg

[Visor]

I'm skimming most of Earthling's post by now

You have restored my faith.

Well i am now convinced with Winston.He simply cant be the chaotic. So that leaves us with little choice. fold and bet 100 credits on Arpeg

Ah... why? Arpeg is looking very townish.

[Romanic]

unvote Jedi holocran to Kage;
vote Jedi holocron to acin.

[Kagemusha]

Unvote items, vote : busdriver to Romanic, Jedi Holocron to ACIN and all other items to Kagemusha

[Earthling]

It is basically impossible for Arpegg to be chaotic. Before Arpegg joined the role was entirely inactive for at least a couple nights, I highly doubt orders were sent, and that's on top of Arpegg's actions themselves being accounted for, including Renata's scan even verifying his secret talent last I heard. Winston's claim of stealing away his last credits is also entirely consistent with what Arpegg said he was doing and spending in advance. He does need to say something and vote today though.

I think we ought to be unanimous (well, 7 vs. 1) and I really don't think it's Greyblades but yes, we do need to all vote so if comes down to it won't take a risk of not getting Sephiroth over some avoidable mistake. Greyblades, you really ought to place a bet and I obviously think it should be on ACIN.

[Diamondeye]

I don't care about what Earthling said about him, in fact I'm skimming most of Earthling's post by now.

I stopped reading them around page 2

[a completely inoffensive name]

Vote: busdriver to Romanic, Jedi Holocon to myself and all other items to Kage.

[Greyblades]

Hey why are we only 4 to vote at this point? Why are some of us waiting to place their vote?

@Arpeg: You need to unvote Beefy, because BL said so.

@acin: vote now please.

@Beefy: Where are you?

@Winston: Even if you don't know, you need to vote. Do something, where's the WH that I know? The one who's trying to figure stuff?

@Greyblades: I feel like you haven't placed a solid vote since 1956 (or was it Day8?). It's time to stop defending yourself and stop acting like your a victim. If you don't want to find who's are the remaining chaotics, here's what will happen:

fold; bet 88 credits on Greyblades

Here's a list of your today's posts. I don't see you helping.



Hrm.
[/SPOIL]

Heh no. I'm the only one here who is at least 90% certain innocent and didnt have to be killed to do it. I'm not going to be pressured at this point by you. Kagemusha was ressurected, earthling cant die, I let up an opppertunity to kill a townie group leader to kill a chaotic, whats the rest of you lot's excuses?

[Seon]

[Earthling]

Greyblades, bet your credits already. This is the most self-destructive and terrible townie attitude ever. "I won't do anything, reveal anything, or vote anything to help the town, and I dare you to come lynch or kill me." Do you know all those other people that worked out for? Heard of some guys called Psychonaut and Visorslash?

It's so obvious what is exactly in your own interests as a townie, and that's lynching ACIN. He's even your factional enemy after all. You can't possibly be serious that you, as an evil townie, would rather die right now than even try to get someone who could be scum.

To summarize what's up with everyone else though:

-Beefy has proven himself a vigilante several times over, with coordination with other Innocents, and possibly scans or second actions to his name - he's the least perfect of anyone left, I do have to agree, but it's also generally unlikely he's been killing twice each night for so long.

-Winston and Arpegg both replaced inactive people who wouldn't have been sending night orders, not acted scummy since, and seem to have mutually confirmed each other's amounts of credits and a couple of night actions/steals. Unless they are both lying (and thus scum together) to cover up a large amount of credits being hidden, neither should be scum.

-Romanic is the person who revived our other revived Innocents and has already been attacked by Sephiroth repeatedly.

-That leaves the people you already mentioned Greyblades. So I guess we're out of suspects?

Oh wait, there's ACIN, whose excuse is that he "killed a townie once, with a vig item" and nothing otherwise about his night actions.

[Greyblades]

It's so obvious what is exactly in your own interests as a townie, and that's lynching ACIN. He's even your factional enemy after all. You can't possibly be serious that you, as an evil townie, would rather die right now than even try to get someone who could be scum.

Hey here's an idea: stop telling me what to do. Right now I'm ticked off enough to do something stupid and you of all people playing the part of undeserved authority isnt exactly helping seeing as you are last person here I'm going to listen to. Even if what you say is right...

...Goddamnit
Bet 20 credits on ACIN

[Romanic]

Heh no. I'm the only one here who is at least 90% certain innocent and didnt have to be killed to do it. I'm not going to be pressured at this point by you. Kagemusha was ressurected, earthling cant die, I let up an opppertunity to kill a townie group leader to kill a chaotic, whats the rest of you lot's excuses?

At this point everyone has some sort of alibi, and yours - I voted Diamondeye on Day 6 instead of Renata - isn't as strong as it used to be, because others are stronger. You're far from 90% innocent in my book.

Kagemusha - Was revived, after dying as Town.
Romanic - Attacked three times by Sephiroth, revived two Town.
Beefy - Backwards Logic, our previous scanner, doesn't want us to lynch him.
Earthling - Survived a lynch where he was shown as Town, pissed away 100 credits yesterday to try lynching his main suspect (unlikely an antiTown would do that)
Winston - Two actions accounted for on Night 8, he can't be one of the two killers.

----------------

acin - Turned the tide in Renata's favor on Day 6, lynching Diamondeye.
Greyblades - Voted Diamondeye on Day 6.
Arpeg - Replaced two times, voted Seon on Day 1, albeit a weak vote.


You'll have to do better than "I won't be pressured by you" and "I'm 90% certain innocent" to convince me.

[Greyblades]

Ok.

On day six I was leading a majority vote on reneta, a person who was organising a townie network, after afew hours of "debating"(flinging proverbial ape poo at each other) evidence that diamondeye was a chaotic was presented, as votes started falling away from me I found myself in a position of having a 100 credit lead over reneta and if I stuck to my guns there was a high probability I would have got her lynched. Instead I was persuaded into becoming the second in a bandwagon on diamondeye, he turned out to be a chaotic, I pretty much killed a chaotic and let a townie network leader go free. I would think that would be enough, if I were a psychopath I would have tried to keep at reneta, were I a chaotic I definitely wouldn't vote to kill a team mate over such a lucrative prize.

To reinforce this I would direct you to Andres' mafia comeback game where I was mafia, in that game I successfully managed to evade suspicion all the way to the end on my own, if I was able to do that there I definitely wouldn't have passed up such an effective maneuver here were I mafia, I sure as heck wouldnt go after reneta like a rabid monkey for a night kill attempt and then give up when I was an inch from success.

[Earthling]

acin - Turned the tide in Renata's favor on Day 6, lynching Diamondeye.
Greyblades - Voted Diamondeye on Day 6.

You can't be serious. This is simply wrong, you really should pay more attention to the tallies as they developed (like on Day 2 as well) rather than just the final tallies (in the writeups) after many people folded or gave up their bets.

Assuming that there wasn't intentional bussing by the scum team anyway - as Chaotix and GE mostly stayed out of it and Diamondeye was REVIVED the same night, I don't know how we can automatically dismiss that, this isn't even true.

When ACIN voted for Diamondeye, Diamondeye had already lost, and it's evident the scum team believed this too, because the other scum were not even trying to support Diamondeye. There is no possible other way to interpret that situation, the intention behind ACIN's vote is up to discussion but not the tally. Roman and Backwards Logic were guaranteed to place their bets to support Renata, not even counting Renata raising her own bet which certainly should have been an expected possibility, and Diamondeye already had significant credits on him. ACIN's vote did not turn the tide in any way, at all. The most you could say is that he didn't desperately try to save Diamondeye for no reason, in other words, he didn't make an obvious mistake that would have immediately shown he was scum and that was such an obvious mistake none of the other scum got involved either.

Greyblades' change of vote from Renata to Diamondeye was far more significant if you even assume that means anything. Which I don't see how you find Day Six so important and not something like the obvious scum bandwagons, first after the silenced Renata, and then saving Chaotix on Day Two anyway.

[Greyblades]

Huh you know now that I think about it...

Romanic - Attacked three times by Sephiroth, revived two Town.

This doesnt realy mean much, being attacked by sephiroth only means you arent chaotic, we still have one psycopath running around and for psycopaths getting into the towns good books is a good strategy, what better way to get into the towns good books than providing them with proven townies, also there's the whole diamondeye being resurrected part, realy romanic if we were to look at it like that your alibi doesnt hold all that much water either.

[Earthling]

There is something I really think everyone still around and especially confused on placing a vote should do. List who you think is scum if there is one scum (just Sephiroth) or two scum left and act accordingly. I'd also point out that Beskar, who we know was right about things far too much to be coincidence, clearly indicates that Greyblades is not Sephiroth. Beskar presumably knew who Sephiroth was when he died, he was right about Chaotix and Renata being good aligned and no real reason we can assume he was outright lying otherwise, and it's not Greyblades. Beskar would not have supported Greyblades against Renata if Greyblades was Sephiroth.

My list is obvious but as everyone should be considering this for themselves:

2 scum left: ACIN and somebody, possibly Greyblades but I wouldn't be sure at all, could be Beefy or Winston with Blackwings still alive.
1 scum left: ACIN is Sephiroth and Seon is actually Blackwings, ACIN tossed this out as an obvious bussing attempt. Nobody else at all looks nearly as likely to be the sole chaotic left as Sephiroth, none of the nightkills nor behavior matches except ACIN desperately trying anything to avoid a consensus lynch the past couple of days.

So as it's the conclusion in either case, I'm obviously voting for ACIN regardless.

I'd like to question what you guys are assuming and why you are pursuing suspects for yourselves though. What justifies assuming that Greyblades is Sephiroth as the only scum left given the extraordinary risks he would have been taking and obvious lies that anybody could have disproven if they were complete lies. (not to mention his faction). Or are you guys just assuming Greyblades is one of two scum left, maybe just Blackwings - but where's the rest of the discussion?

People have not been thinking ahead more than one step in front of them, sometimes not even that. It's been terrible for the town here. People didn't think ahead and really consider so many vig-kills that killed Innocent inactives or in some cases active, known Innocents. There wasn't even any thinking ahead yesterday that if we lynched Psychonaut and he came up Innocent would we follow up with Visorslash to finish off the South Park faction (as, well, nobody even really discussed what they actually thought about South Park having two scum. Both of those two not bothering to vote or defend themselves didn't help either, don't get me wrong, but more direct public discussion from everyone who was voting might have helped).

So what are we looking at today? Are we assuming Greyblades is Sephiroth and it's done here? If not, what is the follow up? And what justifies assuming other people are Innocent if you are assuming there are two scum left, that opens up a lot more possibilities.

[Kagemusha]

I think we have two scum left.Who they are is a very hard question. Arpeg doesnt even seem to be active, so fold.

[Choxorn]

This doesnt realy mean much, being attacked by sephiroth only means you arent chaotic, we still have one psycopath running around and for psycopaths getting into the towns good books is a good strategy, what better way to get into the towns good books than providing them with proven townies, also there's the whole diamondeye being resurrected part, realy romanic if we were to look at it like that your alibi doesnt hold all that much water either.

You're kidding, right? A Neutral wasted more than 100 credits reviving a townie to get in their good books, then revived another one? I'm fairly certain there's much easier ways for a neutral to look townie.

[Greyblades]

1) 100 credits? I thought he had an item.
2) I didnt say he could be neutral I said he could be a psychopath

[Earthling]

Greyblades, are you trying to purposefully get yourself lynched to buy ACIN another day?...

It's really simple, if you know you are Innocent and have nothing to reveal about yourself or a really really solid thing to say about someone else, stop coming up with crazy nonsense in an OMGUS manner, settle down and place a bigger vote on ACIN.

It's clear that Reenkis Roinkis was a reviver, not even sure if that was credits/ability/item though and he seems to have passed on his items to another ally of his before he died, we didn't even get back the item that was voted to him. Romanic has always been consistent in his claims, paid credits and revived townies, though maybe we should have revived Beskar by now.

[Greyblades]

He was? huh, I stopped paying attention to walls of text agest ago even plot related ones.
I cant place a bigger vote, I spent all my credits trying to steal an item.