Euro Area

[Furunculus]

So can Britain then fully devolve into the UUK... The Un-United Kingdoms of England, Northern Island, Scotland, Wales & The Manx.

Surely given your argument it would be best if Leeds and Manchestor form their own city states to look after their own demo...

a fine example of reductio-ad-absurdum.

think on this; indirect democracy only works because you have sufficient confidence that your peers will act in a sufficiently predictable and acceptable manner, that you are willing to be bound by their collective decisions and share in responsibility for acts taken in your name. if you are unwilling to give of your authority that others may act in your name it is because you do not perceive government as legitimate, most probably because it is neither accountable nor representative of your interests.

i have this confidence in britain; as Louis has on occasion noted we are a boisterous and warlike bunch still, with an apparent love of exactly the kind of adversarial politics, and the same hate of arbitrary interference in personal life.

it works for me, i am content.

as for scotland et-al, they are fee to do as they wish. if they want independence they can have it, i would believe them to be idiots as we have achieved our greatest acts united, but it would be evidence of precisely that lack of shared familial sentiment that is necessary for healthy majoritarian governance to exists. rather than compel them to adhere to the united kingdom, and invent torturous proportional systems of governance to ameliorate their ill-feeling i would rather let them walk away.

[Papewaio]

think on this; indirect democracy only works because you have sufficient confidence that your peers will act in a sufficiently predictable and acceptable manner, that you are willing to be bound by their collective decisions and share in responsibility for acts taken in your name. if you are unwilling to give of your authority that others may act in your name it is because you do not perceive government as legitimate, most probably because it is neither accountable nor representative of your interests.

I don't expect my fellow citizens to vote the same way as me, or to have the same desires. I do believe that democracy is a very good way to moderate a government and with the proper tools of transparency and checks and balances.

What I do think is that the EU got its economic game on before it got its political one. It should have allowed voting at the EU level by the people. I find it strange that the EU formed, made monetary policy yet left off the ability to vote for those who make such decisions.

To me it shows either lack of foresight or power mungering by the politicians... greed and stupidity is an attribute found throughout humanity.

[Louis VI the Fat]

What I do think is that the EU got its economic game on before it got its political one. It should have allowed voting at the EU level by the people. I find it strange that the EU formed, made monetary policy yet left off the ability to vote for those who make such decisions.

To me it shows either lack of foresight or power mungering by the politicians...

Ah...Internet is a bad place for info about the EU, Pape.

The EU would love love love to have directly elected EU politicians. The EU would love nothing more than to be directly accountable to the voters. It is the electorates which have always rejected it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Ah...Internet is a bad place for info about the EU, Pape.

The EU would love love love to have directly elected EU politicians. The EU would love nothing more than to be directly accountable to the voters. It is the electorates which have always rejected it.

If this is true then why was the Lisbon Treaty enacted after its first incarnation, the Constitution, was voted down by referenda, and why did the Irish vote twice?

The voting down of the Constitution was an opertunity for the European architechts to take a step back, look at their direction and adjust accordingly, instead they ducked and carried on in the same direction as they were already going.

If the EU is going to work then it HAS to make itself directly accountable, and that means a referendum in each country every time the Commission changed a treaty, if those changes keep getting voted down then that simply demonstrates that the EU lacks popular backing, and is therefore not going anywhere.

[Furunculus]

I don't expect my fellow citizens to vote the same way as me, or to have the same desires. I do believe that democracy is a very good way to moderate a government and with the proper tools of transparency and checks and balances.

What I do think is that the EU got its economic game on before it got its political one. It should have allowed voting at the EU level by the people. I find it strange that the EU formed, made monetary policy yet left off the ability to vote for those who make such decisions.

To me it shows either lack of foresight or power mungering by the politicians... greed and stupidity is an attribute found throughout humanity.

you keep missing the point; identity!

no-one gives a hoot about european elections, or their european identity.

Nor. Is. Necessary. To. Invent. One.

What is wrong with a return to a europe built on the principle of intergovernmental rule whereby sovereign nations beholden to their electorates via legitimate ties founded in representation and accountability?

I really fail to understand this continual push to ever deeper union when it is:
1. not needed
2. not wanted
3. positively antagonistic to the continued good relations between european nations?

why? tell me why? please make me understand............... WHY?