I didn't leave my favorite game series, my favorite game series left me.

[Prussian to the Iron]

If by a few you mean 20, then sure. For several quests I spent over half an hour going from the closest stilt strider stop to the dungeon location.


Because what was between them didn't matter to the quest at hand. Besides the Dark Brotherhood sends you to places off the beaten path. Do that first and you've explored enough.



What are things that cost money, or are scrolls you have to find. It's not finding places that's the problem, it's the drudgery trudge to and from.

I'd rather have 20 minutes of running through the detailed and interesting countryside, discovering new places, then I would spend 5 seconds at a loading screen instantly teleporting anywhere I want.

Yeah they didn't matter to the quest at hand. But they were still explorable and interesting nonetheless. You can't just discount a cave or dungeon because it's not important right at that moment. True the Brotherhood takes you to a few non-insta-fast-travel places, but not that many really. And even then, it's not exploring enough. On an average playthrough of Oblivion where the player does every quest possible and fast-travels to whatever they can, I would expect maybe 20% of the landmarks (anything noted on the map, and some things that even aren't) to be discovered.

[lars573]

I'd rather have 20 minutes of running through the detailed and interesting countryside, discovering new places, then I would spend 5 seconds at a loading screen instantly teleporting anywhere I want.

I really prefer Cyrodill's environs to Vvardefell's.

Yeah they didn't matter to the quest at hand. But they were still explorable and interesting nonetheless. You can't just discount a cave or dungeon because it's not important right at that moment. True the Brotherhood takes you to a few non-insta-fast-travel places, but not that many really. And even then, it's not exploring enough. On an average playthrough of Oblivion where the player does every quest possible and fast-travels to whatever they can, I would expect maybe 20% of the landmarks (anything noted on the map, and some things that even aren't) to be discovered.

Wrong. It's much higher than that.

[Prussian to the Iron]

I really prefer Cyrodill's environs to Vvardefell's.


Wrong. It's much higher than that.

But do you prefer Cyrodiil because of the better graphics, or the better environments? Vvardenfell was varied; swamps, mountains, desert, plains, volcanic region,and, in the expansion, snow. Cyrodiil was pretty much just grasslands, a tiny bit o forest, and some snowy mountains.

And I highly doubt that. I know that on my first playthrough, in which I utilized fast travel to a great extent, I didn't discover anywhere close to the amount of interesting places.

here's a full map of Cyrodiil in Oblivion, with every location discovered. I'd be willing to bet that most people don't discover 20% of all the places without actively searching for them, which fast travel discourages.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[rajpoot]

The fact that Morrowind sorely lacked a fast travel system is one that cannot be refuted. Oblivion having one does not mean it forces players to use it. If one likes to roleplay and walk all around the map, it's their choice. But the point is it should be a choice.

On thread subject; The only game that comes to mind right now is Dragon Age. I can rant about how it was a terrible betrayal by Bioware, but everyone already knows that.

Edit:
Oh and Diablo. Number three is already off my list due to the new buy-sell system.

[Kekvit Irae]

Oh and Diablo. Number three is already off my list due to the new buy-sell system.

^
This. Blizzard just gave gold farmers the green light to do as they please.
Torchlight 2, on the other hand, will be on the top of my 'must buy' list. Oh, and it's going to be only 20 dollars.

[lars573]

Explain?

[rajpoot]

Link

This kind of stuff is OK in am MMO. It ruins the concept of loot, for me at least, in an RPG.

[a completely inoffensive name]

^
This. Blizzard just gave gold farmers the green light to do as they please.

I would rather have Blizzard moderate and take a slice from legal gold farming than have it the way it used to be. They are going to be there no matter what, why bother trying to fight them?

[Jolt]

I would rather have Blizzard moderate and take a slice from legal gold farming than have it the way it used to be. They are going to be there no matter what, why bother trying to fight them?

So, if I'm playing in Single Player and want a certain item, what's to stop me from getting a free trainer or hack or whatever to get me all the fricking items I want?

In a multiplayer game, it would make minimal sense to have such a system. In Single-Player... -.-

[Kekvit Irae]

I would rather have Blizzard moderate and take a slice from legal gold farming than have it the way it used to be. They are going to be there no matter what, why bother trying to fight them?

1. I would rather have heavy enforcement than regulation. Log onto any server in WoW and take a stroll through either Stormwind or Orgrimmar. My BadBoy anti-spam addon blocked maybe one spam message every 30 minutes or so, on peak hours. Compare this with any Free To Play Korean MMO (of which I have experienced a few myself), and you'll get completely BOMBARDED with messages in all chat channels with advertisements of gold selling. And when I say bombarded, I mean several messages per second. I'm not kidding about this, I've played FTP games that had this. I like my immersion in a game, thank you very much.

2. Regulation will directly support humanitarian crimes.

3. Gold and item selling (both of which are regulated in D3) are based on grinding, not skill. I wholeheartedly support Blizzard's decision to have the Mod Marketplace in StarCraft II as a way for modders to gain revenue for their creations, as modding in the game is a bit more than just point and click; it requires skill, patience, and a crapload of balancing to create something enjoyable enough that people will want to play it. Furthermore, SC2 mods are creations by the players themselves, whereas the Diablo III marketplace will list ONLY Blizzard assets that anyone can get, no skill required.

4. It will be eBay all over again. You work hard enough to find that rare Legendary Winged Gun Mace Sword Thingy of Lord Mudkips, so you decide to list it on the marketplace for a fair price. Then some jerk comes along and lists the very same item for a penny less. Then someone else sells their sword for a penny less than him. It eventually snowballs what would have been a decent economy into a massive deflation of value across the board. Anyone who has played WoW will know the horrors of trying to play the auction house without having a PhD in Microeconomics.

[lars573]

But do you prefer Cyrodiil because of the better graphics, or the better environments? Vvardenfell was varied; swamps, mountains, desert, plains, volcanic region,and, in the expansion, snow. Cyrodiil was pretty much just grasslands, a tiny bit o forest, and some snowy mountains.

Wrong again. The western part is hilly grass lands (the gold coast and Colovian highlands), the south is swamp (blackwood), the north east is mountains both forested (valus mountains) and snow capped (Jerall mountains), the central areas around Imperial city are a mix of forest (the great foreset) and transition areas (West weald and Nibany basin). But unlike Morrowind the transition isn't literally a line. Graphical candy aside, Vvardenfell is just poorly designed if you HAVE to walk/swim most places. Soulsteim, Cyrodill, and the Shivering Isles are much more walk friendly.

And I highly doubt that. I know that on my first playthrough, in which I utilized fast travel to a great extent, I didn't discover anywhere close to the amount of interesting places.

here's a full map of Cyrodiil in Oblivion, with every location discovered. I'd be willing to bet that most people don't discover 20% of all the places without actively searching for them, which fast travel discourages.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That map includes things that aren't fast travel locations. And so now your going to back pedal and slap qualifiers on what you can find. Bull. Going by that map one game I went about 60% of what shows up on the fast travel map.

[Drunk Clown]

If I see one thing here, it's that people over idolize Morrowind. Just wake up.

Most of your arguments are rubbish anyway. Fast travel is a choice, you're not forced to do it. More options is better according to you, so why not fast travel.

This whole point of you missing places around Cyrodiil caused by fast travel isn't a flaw of the game, it's a flaw of you, you used fast travel right?
It's just pathetic, you want to convince others so much that Oblivion sucks that you look for non existent problems.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Gentlemen,

Keep your posts in line with the Org standards. Reasonable people can disagree about what games they like and why they like or dislike them, and do so politely.

The Arena is a relaxed place to talk about games besides Total War, and it will remain that way.

Crazed Rabbit

[CrossLOPER]

Wrong again. The western part is hilly grass lands (the gold coast and Colovian highlands), the south is swamp (blackwood), the north east is mountains both forested (valus mountains) and snow capped (Jerall mountains), the central areas around Imperial city are a mix of forest (the great foreset) and transition areas (West weald and Nibany basin). But unlike Morrowind the transition isn't literally a line. Graphical candy aside, Vvardenfell is just poorly designed if you HAVE to walk/swim most places. Soulsteim, Cyrodill, and the Shivering Isles are much more walk friendly.

Point to me one spot in Oblivion that is comparable to either Vivec or the area where you find the shrine of Azura.

Graphical candy aside, Vvardenfell is just poorly designed if you HAVE to walk/swim most places. Soulsteim, Cyrodill, and the Shivering Isles are much more walk friendly.

OK, if you don't want to walk/swim somewhere, what do you suggest? I guess you could fly or even jump to the location....in Morrowind.

If I see one thing here, it's that people over idolize Morrowind. Just wake up.

Most of your arguments are rubbish anyway. Fast travel is a choice, you're not forced to do it. More options is better according to you, so why not fast travel.

This whole point of you missing places around Cyrodiil caused by fast travel isn't a flaw of the game, it's a flaw of you, you used fast travel right?
It's just pathetic, you want to convince others so much that Oblivion sucks that you look for non existent problems.

I'm not idolizing Morrowind. I'm just criticizing some of the design decisions they made in Oblivion, such as the combat mechanics which ended up cutting down on weapon types. Also I just found Morrowind more interesting. The stark variation between the natural environments, towns, races, the fact that the Dwarven ruins seemed much more interesting than the Ayleid ruins, probably because they stood out more. Regarding the variation between races, that variation has returned in Skyrim. I just hope that the voice actor count has gone back up.