Obamacare Going Down?

[HoreTore]

Some way up, someone claimed that health care is not a right. I direct you to the declaration of human rights, article 25:

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a25

Healthcare IS a right. And the declaration of human rights stands above any and all constitutions, period.

[Tuuvi]

Some way up, someone claimed that health care is not a right. I direct you to the declaration of human rights, article 25:

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a25

Healthcare IS a right. And the declaration of human rights stands above any and all constitutions, period.

The declaration of human rights is all fine and dandy, but who voted for it? I'd prefer it was democratic before it trumps any and all constitutions.


I see that some of you are equating being against the individual mandate to being against universal healthcare. The problem with the individual mandate is that it forces people to buy insurance from private companies. I can't speak for rvg, but as for myself I'm against the individual mandate but I want universal healthcare. I'd rather pay higher taxes to the government, which is supposed to exist for my benefit, to receive healthcare than to be forced to buy insurance for someone else's profit.

[Lemur]

I can't speak for rvg, but as for myself I'm against the individual mandate but I want universal healthcare. I'd rather pay higher taxes to the government, which is supposed to exist for my benefit, to receive healthcare than to be forced to buy insurance for someone else's profit.

Actually, if you take a gander through the thread, that's where a lot of us are ending up.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The declaration of human rights is all fine and dandy, but who voted for it? I'd prefer it was democratic before it trumps any and all constitutions.


I see that some of you are equating being against the individual mandate to being against universal healthcare. The problem with the individual mandate is that it forces people to buy insurance from private companies. I can't speak for rvg, but as for myself I'm against the individual mandate but I want universal healthcare. I'd rather pay higher taxes to the government, which is supposed to exist for my benefit, to receive healthcare than to be forced to buy insurance for someone else's profit.

If memory serves, the "Individual Mandate" is the result of Republicans refusing to allow a public option - which would have driven most private health insurers out od business in a few decades, if not sooner.

[Lemur]

Yeah, that's right, the public option was a vain attempt to get Republicans onboard, since they objected so vehemently to the public option. The (naive) thinking was that since the mandate derived from the Heritage Foundation and Romneycare, they wouldn't fight it like hell. Which was obviously incorrect.

I'm getting the impression that GOP leadership really doesn't have a plan. They're cool with the status quo ante, even if it's financially unsustainable. But you know the economics saying — things that cannot continue indefinitely ... don't. Best to think ahead.

[HoreTore]

The declaration of human rights is all fine and dandy, but who voted for it? I'd prefer it was democratic before it trumps any and all constitutions.

Who voted for it? Assuming you are over 18, you did.

Membership in the UN means accepting that the human rights trumps any of your own laws. Any country is of course free to leave the UN, and since the US is a democracy, you are of course free to start a "leave the UN"-party.

[rvg]

Membership in the UN means accepting that the human rights trumps any of your own laws.

Says who?

[gaelic cowboy]

Says who?

America does every time they use UN rules to invade a place or pressure say the government of Myanmar or put sanctions on Iran the list goes on and on.

[rvg]

America does every time they use UN rules to invade a place.

Your statement begs the question. Give me an example.

[gaelic cowboy]

Your statement begs the question. Give me an example.

Do I really need to google every resolution for proof or can we just leave it at Iraq 2003

[HoreTore]

Says who?

Not sure which part you ask about, so I'll answer both:

Who decides that being a member in the UN means accepting he UNHCR? The UN does. If you don't sccept, you can't be a member.

Who decides that the UNHCR is above any other law? The UNHCR does. The preamble, article 2 and article 30 says where, when and to whom it applies.

[rvg]

Not sure which part you ask about, so I'll answer both:

Who decides that being a member in the UN means accepting he UNHCR? The UN does. If you don't sccept, you can't be a member.

Who decides that the UNHCR is above any other law? The UNHCR does. The preamble, article 2 and article 30 says where, when and to whom it applies.

Interesting... Let's take a look at the point #7 of the Article 2, Chapter 1:

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.[1]

i.e. it's none of the UN's damn business.

[HoreTore]

Interesting... Let's take a look at the point #7 of the Article 2, Chapter 1:



i.e. it's none of the UN's damn business.

I see little future for you as a lawyer.

Edit: nor do I see a future for myself as alanguage teacher, but I already knew that. Where the abbreviation "unhcr" came from, I will never know. I was, of course, referring to the declaration of human rights, UDHR. I may have been thinking "un human rights commission" or something, but I blame it on the coke.

[rvg]

Healthcare IS a right. And the declaration of human rights stands above any and all constitutions, period.

*channels the spirit of Tribesman*



bollocks

[drone]

Some way up, someone claimed that health care is not a right. I direct you to the declaration of human rights, article 25:

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a25

Healthcare IS a right. And the declaration of human rights stands above any and all constitutions, period.

Looks at entire list of universal human rights. Looks at membership list of UN. Goes into full Tribesman mode.