An ethical question

[Major Robert Dump]

Once upon a time, there was a prostitute who will not take black men as clients.

Is she a racist?


And when prostitution is legalized, if she still refuses to take black men as clients, does Eric Holder rain down fire and hell on her for discrimination?


Or is refusing to serve someone coffee different than refusing to have sex? And if there are different levels of service ackowledged between coffee and sex, then why not between other things as well? For example, refusing medical care to an Asian family should be a lot worse offense than refusing to sell a sports car to an Asian women. In fact the latter should get a highway patrol safety award to the salesperson.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I don't mind racism, unless it is the government doing it. Discriminate based on anything you'd like, but when you get your funding from everyone, don't you dare.

[Fragony]

If you don't take black men as clients it's obviously racist, do I really care, no. You can pick your own clients if you don't like blacks that's up to you.

[rajpoot]

If you don't take black men as clients it's obviously racist, do I really care, no. You can pick your own clients if you don't like blacks that's up to you.

When you think about it, it's not that simple is it?
Even if prostitution gets legalised, it's not like other service industries. The factor of sexual preference will still be there.
If a person is OK with everything else, but not physically attracted to someone due to the colour of their skin, is that being racist?

Edit:
What if it were the other way around. What if a customer rejected a prostitute on the basis of skin colour? Will that be considered racist?

[Fragony]

When you think about it, it's not that simple is it?
Even if prostitution gets legalised, it's not like other service industries. The factor of sexual preference will still be there.
If a person is OK with everything else, but not physically attracted to someone due to the colour of their skin, is that being racist?

Edit:
What if it were the other way around. What if a customer rejected a prostitute on the basis of skin colour? Will that be considered racist?

People care too much. I don't have anything with Asian women, I am just not that attracted to them in general. It's just a prefference, nothing wrong with it. Gimme a black beauty anytime though

[rory_20_uk]

Prostitution is basically consultancy (and yes, I have worked as a consultant and this parallel was used in my second interview). I was always told the rule that a consultant never says no to work - they merely increase the amount they charge.

Thus to refuse would be technically illegal if it is based purely on the colour of her skin, but if she was to price them out of the market that would be technically OK.

[Major Robert Dump]

If you charge a certain race more for the same service, you are opening just as big of a can of worms as refusal of service. There would be no way to say the extra charge was due to extra costs incurred, because speaking publicly about those extra costs would have one labelled as a racist.

[Fragony]

If you charge a certain race more for the same service, you are opening just as big of a can of worms as refusal of service. There would be no way to say the extra charge was due to extra costs incurred, because speaking publicly about those extra costs would have one labelled as a racist.

Maybe she just doesn't like blacks. You can dislike her for it but hookers should be able to deny their services to people they don't like.

[Major Robert Dump]

No, that is not equal protection under the law.

It discriminates against a segment because of their race, religion or sexual orientation.

It does not matter her reasons, based on reality or fact or experience or imagined. She is denying service, and this cannot stand.

[Fragony]

No, that is not equal protection under the law.

It discriminates against a segment because of their race, religion or sexual orientation.

It does not matter her reasons, based on reality or fact or experience or imagined. She is denying service, and this cannot stand.

I think people tend to get overly upset about things like this, hooker or not if she isn't into blacks why would she be forced to accept the transaction.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

When you think about it, it's not that simple is it?
Even if prostitution gets legalised, it's not like other service industries. The factor of sexual preference will still be there.
If a person is OK with everything else, but not physically attracted to someone due to the colour of their skin, is that being racist?

Edit:
What if it were the other way around. What if a customer rejected a prostitute on the basis of skin colour? Will that be considered racist?

Prostitues sell sex, it's a service. You are paying her to fake an attraction and enjoyment. Given that she won't let you go down on her the chance that you actually brought her to orgasm is, at best, uncertain.

In which case, there's really no justifiable reason to reject a client based on skin colour. However, she might reject him because:

A: She thought he was a drug runner.

B: She thought his attitude to sex would put her in danger

C: She thought he might not be anatomically compatable.

Now, in various parts of the world these might co-incide with skin coliur, lighter or darker.

For example, there's probably a higher prevelence of HIV among black men than white men in Africa because of levels of education, sexual-social circle, and certain cultural preferences.

[Montmorency]

What are the pros and cons of permitting those with the occupational discretion to do so to deny service on the basis of raw prejudice?

[Vuk]

People care too much. I don't have anything with Asian women, I am just not that attracted to them in general. It's just a prefference, nothing wrong with it. Gimme a black beauty anytime though

lol, I never used to care for the looks of most Asian women either, but the more of them I saw, the more the look grew on me. I have seen very, very many smoking hot Asian ladies. I am generally not very attracted to black or Latino women though. There are some whom I consider very attractive, but for the most part, I don't really find most of them that attractive. It is not the skin colours, but just the features that many have I don't think are very complimentary. I have never understood the craze for Latino women. They got their beauties, but on average, I would say they are below average compared to most other women. (at least to my taste)

[Major Robert Dump]

Prostitues sell sex, it's a service. You are paying her to fake an attraction and enjoyment. Given that she won't let you go down on her the chance that you actually brought her to orgasm is, at best, uncertain.

In which case, there's really no justifiable reason to reject a client based on skin colour. However, she might reject him because:

A: She thought he was a drug runner.

B: She thought his attitude to sex would put her in danger

C: She thought he might not be anatomically compatable.

Now, in various parts of the world these might co-incide with skin coliur, lighter or darker.

For example, there's probably a higher prevelence of HIV among black men than white men in Africa because of levels of education, sexual-social circle, and certain cultural preferences.

you left out

--racism
- turned off, lack of attraction, precieved hygiene issues
- increased possibility of robbery or being forced to take a pimp. Before anyone calls me racist, don't worry, a white customer is the most likely to cut her up and hide her in his trunk
- a higher tendency (according to the ladies) to behave like a Cheap Charlie, or not tip, or haggle an already agreed upon price

Assuming it ws legal and regulated, the second and third points above would be less valid. But there are still racists and simply not being attracted, although some will try to lump those together which reminds me of the argument that homophobes make about showering with gay men, but reversed so to speak

[Fragony]

lol, I never used to care for the looks of most Asian women either, but the more of them I saw, the more the look grew on me. I have seen very, very many smoking hot Asian ladies. I am generally not very attracted to black or Latino women though. There are some whom I consider very attractive, but for the most part, I don't really find most of them that attractive. It is not the skin colours, but just the features that many have I don't think are very complimentary. I have never understood the craze for Latino women. They got their beauties, but on average, I would say they are below average compared to most other women. (at least to my taste)

Isn't a difference in taste a great thing, attraction-economics at it's finest, more for everyone. Latino and black beauty's seriously confuse me, but Asians and blonds just not that much although they can of course be hotter than the sun, more of a in general thingie

[PanzerJaeger]

You are on a roll, Major Robert Dump.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

you left out

--racism
- turned off, lack of attraction, precieved hygiene issues
- increased possibility of robbery or being forced to take a pimp. Before anyone calls me racist, don't worry, a white customer is the most likely to cut her up and hide her in his trunk
- a higher tendency (according to the ladies) to behave like a Cheap Charlie, or not tip, or haggle an already agreed upon price

Assuming it ws legal and regulated, the second and third points above would be less valid. But there are still racists and simply not being attracted, although some will try to lump those together which reminds me of the argument that homophobes make about showering with gay men, but reversed so to speak

Who's not attracted, the woman? I would consider that a non issue - if she's any good she should just fake it, if she can't fake it she shouldn't charge so much. A prostitute is an actress, and I am paying for her to make me believe she enjoys her work, her actual enjoyment is neither here nor there.

If by "racist" you mean her, meh she's providing a service, if you mean him then that's covered under my point B as is your second point - as to your third point, any working girl knows you should get paid first.

[Major Robert Dump]

There is a difference than not being attracted and being repulsed.

Were you a gigolo, you may have measure in place to assist you in "behaving and appearing" to be attracted.

Then suppose NaNa, the 400 pound one legged you tube sensation who never gets out of bed, is rolled in smelling like rotting turkey rolls. Now, you are repulsed.

While racism may be a factor in some cases, there are people who are genuinely repulsed by the thought of intimacey of other races. Making thme fight through this phobia is mental terrorism. You make them suck it up (LOL PUN) and drive on with the repulsive customer, you are linign yourselves up for prostitutes going on disability for PTSD

[Major Robert Dump]

Who's not attracted, the woman? I would consider that a non issue - if she's any good she should just fake it, if she can't fake it she shouldn't charge so much. A prostitute is an actress, and I am paying for her to make me believe she enjoys her work, her actual enjoyment is neither here nor there.

If by "racist" you mean her, meh she's providing a service, if you mean him then that's covered under my point B as is your second point - as to your third point, any working girl knows you should get paid first.

And to address your "get paid first" comment

A customer is nuying her time. It wastes her time to schedule an appointment and then a guys hows up without the agreed upon price. At this point, whether or not she gave the service is irrelevant, as she could have been with another, payung, non douchey customer

Believe it or not, but there are people in this world who will pay the girl, do the deed, then figure out where she stashed the money and steal it back. Or steal her purse. Or in some cases, outright tob her through force or fear. There are also some people who have their friends tail along and wait outside and suddenly we have a gang rape issue. There are also people who start the encounter and eviate from "the menu" in an attempt to get something the lady does not want to give.

The above things can be reduced with extra vetting, which costs time and money. OR, she could just cut out altogether the demographic with whom she experiences these issues the most.

[Fragony]

You aren't paying a robot are you? If she doesn't want to have sex with someone for whatever reason that's up to her. Is it also discrimination if someone is burned for most of his body, pretty repulsive I imagine.

[rajpoot]

IMO, sexual preferences cannot be considered racist in any way, because racism is something you are deliberate about. Something that one can change. Sexual preferences are natural and inborn. They cannot be changed, or at least it's not correct to make someone change them, unless of course it's something illegal.

Thus, a prostitute who rejects someone on basis of race, or a customer who rejects a prostitute on the basis of race, cannot be considered racist.

[Fragony]

IMO, sexual preferences cannot be considered racist in any way, because racism is something you are deliberate about. Something that one can change. Sexual preferences are natural and inborn. They cannot be changed, or at least it's not correct to make someone change them, unless of course it's something illegal.

Thus, a prostitute who rejects someone on basis of race, or a customer who rejects a prostitute on the basis of race, cannot be considered racist.

Well it is off course, but mostly looking for a problem if you are all too upset about it imho

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There is a difference than not being attracted and being repulsed.

Were you a gigolo, you may have measure in place to assist you in "behaving and appearing" to be attracted.

Then suppose NaNa, the 400 pound one legged you tube sensation who never gets out of bed, is rolled in smelling like rotting turkey rolls. Now, you are repulsed.

While racism may be a factor in some cases, there are people who are genuinely repulsed by the thought of intimacey of other races. Making thme fight through this phobia is mental terrorism. You make them suck it up (LOL PUN) and drive on with the repulsive customer, you are linign yourselves up for prostitutes going on disability for PTSD

OK, so we're talking about preference then, not actual racism. As in, you don't necessarily expect someone to "go gay" for you and you therefore shouldn't expect them to "go black." Then you improperly defined the question, because what you are saying is that part of the service is a level a rapport, so we're not talking about your entry level street walker who closes her eyes, grits her teeth, and always shoots up at the beginning of the night.

To be honest, though, this argument shows why this trade is usually either illegal or highly restricted.

And to address your "get paid first" comment

A customer is nuying her time. It wastes her time to schedule an appointment and then a guys hows up without the agreed upon price. At this point, whether or not she gave the service is irrelevant, as she could have been with another, payung, non douchey customer

This happens in other trades - you have to put up with it. In other professions it isn't tolerated, so cash no service.

Believe it or not, but there are people in this world who will pay the girl, do the deed, then figure out where she stashed the money and steal it back. Or steal her purse. Or in some cases, outright tob her through force or fear. There are also some people who have their friends tail along and wait outside and suddenly we have a gang rape issue. There are also people who start the encounter and eviate from "the menu" in an attempt to get something the lady does not want to give.

The above things can be reduced with extra vetting, which costs time and money. OR, she could just cut out altogether the demographic with whom she experiences these issues the most.

I believe all this - it's an argument in favour of brothels, but it also argues against the whole trade because prostitution is pretty much the only trade which can vary from the highly professional to the amateur. The problem is, if you're willing to lie on your back and take it, literally, there'll always be some gormless twit willing to pay, or some bastard willing to use you.

[Montmorency]

Alright, I'll be more deliberate about it:

What are the costs of permitting any level of discrimination? Why shouldn't a service-provider, including a freelance/small-business one, be able to refuse service on whatever conceivable basis, such as race or gender?

If prostitutes and providers of similarly intimate services (e.g. masseurs/masseuses, actors, personal trainers) are to be permitted this, why should not others be?

On one hand you have paramedics. On the other hand, I've never heard of an EMS company that permits such discretion, and anyway paramedics have to respond to a lot of wasteful dud calls. Would societal cohesion be harmed? It is enough that no or nearly no employers allow it other than on the basis of improper attire or disruptive behavior. The self-employed can do what they like in this respect?

A stronger counterexample would be insurance companies, and the well-known problems associated with the discrimination they have practiced.

Might we broaden and abstract the discussion a little bit?

[Major Robert Dump]

We cannot broaden it , because then we get accused of being racist.

I am a firm believer that providers of non-essential services and who do not take gov money should be allowed to discriminate against whoever they want, because the market will punish that company accordingly. The most common argument against this is that a 99 majority will not punish a company for not serving a 1% minority, which falsely assumes that all 99% of that majority endorse discrimination or racism and will continue to shop there; this is a common argument..

So in an effort to protect these rare cases where the market may not sort itself out, we get vast, far reaching equaility laws that eventually come to contradict themselves, which is what my original post was about. These laws remove flexibility of th ebusiness owner and make them fear racial bias lawsuits for making decisions that benefit their business. Want an example? People on welfare get their money on the first of the month at midnight. Sometimes there is a system delay. There are hordes of people who go to grocery stores an 11 pm on the night of the 31st, so they can check out right after midnight. If the system fails, they now have two buggys of perishable food they abandon, much of which has to be thrown away because it has been at room temperature too long, not to mention the labor needed to put it back on the shelf. This happens at every 24 hour grocery store in the country, with repeat offenders. If you try to discourage the customer from doing this, or outright ban them from the store, you are now either discriminating against poor people or whatever race is using the welfare (white excluded obviously). Why should a business have to put up woth this??

[Fragony]

Might we broaden and abstract the discussion a little bit?

Sure, isn't forcing to have someone sex with someone they don't want to have sex with kinda institutionalist rape. It's not just a job like being a bus-chaufer

[drone]

Once upon a time, there was a prostitute who will not take black men as clients.

Is she a racist?


And when prostitution is legalized, if she still refuses to take black men as clients, does Eric Holder rain down fire and hell on her for discrimination?

"She said no boom-boom with soul brother. She said soul brother too beaucoup, too beaucoup."