Irony in a Chicken Sandwich

[Fragony]

Just wow. You know nothing about that girl, her plans, or what it is like to work a crappy, low wage job to have to survive. Congrats. If people only worked for companies where their views jived with the owners views 100%, we would not have many employed people.

I find this line of thinking amusing coming from you. Cathy is doing nothing illegal, and organizations having unsavory agendas is nothing new in this country. No one is advocating violence, although it appears that you are trying to make that llink with your gay bashing story above. The story doesn't give a description of the attacker BTW, and we all know what that is secret code for.

Is this the same PJ from the drug testing thread? I confuse.

But what the hell anyway, I hope they are proud about themselves, nice, way to go.

[Strike For The South]

Yea, a lot people my age that I know and work with that aren't going to school have to take two jobs in order to support themselves. Another downside of working two low paying jobs is if your workplaces decide to up your hours you get stuck working overtime but without overtime pay, and sometimes you end up working 16 hour days. Not fun.

This is illegal in Texas. If it's illegal here, it's illegal everywhere else. Allot of you guys seem content to take a good old fashioned raping. You have more power than you think.

Just wow. You know nothing about that girl, her plans, or what it is like to work a crappy, low wage job to have to survive. Congrats. If people only worked for companies where their views jived with the owners views 100%, we would not have many employed people.

I find this line of thinking amusing coming from you. Cathy is doing nothing illegal, and organizations having unsavory agendas is nothing new in this country. No one is advocating violence, although it appears that you are trying to make that llink with your gay bashing story above. The story doesn't give a description of the attacker BTW, and we all know what that is secret code for.

Is this the same PJ from the drug testing thread? I confuse.

Exactly. I'm sure that girl is there because she needs to be. I love the great disconnect when the people from the ivory tower come and mingle when the common folk. Leaving a job because of moral reasons is a sliding scale and one old southeners opinion on gay rights would not even move my needle.

I work for people who hold the same views as Cathy. I don't care, its a backwater belief to be sure, but their opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with me completing my job in a safe, legal, or ethical manner.

Sometimes buisness requries you to work with some people you may not square with. But unless you are Richard Branson or George Clooney, you dont get to set your own rules.

[Lemur]

Sometimes buisness requries you to work with some people you may not square with.

Not to get overly philosophical, but this is one of the defining characteristics of humankind and civilization; the ability to organize and cooperate with people we don't much like.

(I would wax poetic, but I'm balancing a screaming baby and typing one-handed.)

[PanzerJaeger]

Just wow. You know nothing about that girl, her plans, or what it is like to work a crappy, low wage job to have to survive. Congrats. If people only worked for companies where their views jived with the owners views 100%, we would not have many employed people.

I find this line of thinking amusing coming from you. Cathy is doing nothing illegal, and organizations having unsavory agendas is nothing new in this country. No one is advocating violence, although it appears that you are trying to make that llink with your gay bashing story above. The story doesn't give a description of the attacker BTW, and we all know what that is secret code for.

Is this the same PJ from the drug testing thread? I confuse.

You obviously missed the part where I said it was idiotic to harass the kids working at Chick Fil A. I am not attempting to defend the actions of the guy in your video, only to give some perspective on why Chick Fil A elicits such emotion from gay people and their supporters. It has nothing to do with Mr. Cathy's opinions, but his actions. Chick Fil A donates to hate groups. You may call them 'pussified', but that only demonstrates that you have no flowershaped clue what you are talking about on this issue. I won't even bother with all the anti-gay rhetoric or legislation that they lobby for in the United States, because that's just for pussies. How about their donation in 2009 to Exodus International, which later that year traveled to Uganda to tell the stupid Africans that gay people were destroying their families. The result? The widely condemned 'Kill the Gays' bill. Well, it wasn't completely condemned. The Chick Fil A sponsored Family Research Council lobbied Congress against approving a resolution denouncing Uganda's plan to execute homosexuals. If you don't think that there is a clear link between these groups and the anti-gay violence that is so common in this country and around the world, you are either deluding yourself or you love eating flowershaped meringues. After reading your wonderful posts for years, I'll assume it is the former. When you tell a bunch of idiotic Christian zealots that gay people are 'vile, pawns of the enemy', that they are immoral, that they are terrorists, and that the blood of US Marines is on their hands, most will be content to applaud because they are pussies who understand such comments are just an adult version of playground name calling. There will always be those few warriors for Christ who actually believe what they are being told, however. And if you believe all the things that Chick Fil A supported hate groups say about gay people, why wouldn't you want to hurt them? It's called 'incitement to violence', by the way.

No, I'm sorry, this is not about working for someone with different opinions than your own, or 'the ability to organize and cooperate with people we don't much like'. What Chick Fil A does is not normal corporate lobbying. Very few corporations give any money toward social issues, and even fewer donate directly to hate groups. Their activities go so far beyond a 'principled stance on marriage' (LOL) that the assertion of such is patently ridiculous.

[Fragony]

They don't imho

[rvg]

You obviously missed the part where I said it was idiotic to harass the kids working at Chick Fil A. I am not attempting to defend the actions of the guy in your video, only to give some perspective on why Chick Fil A elicits such emotion from gay people and their supporters. It has nothing to do with Mr. Cathy's opinions, but his actions. Chick Fil A donates to hate groups. You may call them 'pussified', but that only demonstrates that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about on this issue. I won't even bother with all the anti-gay rhetoric or legislation that they lobby for in the United States, because that's just for pussies. How about their donation in 2009 to Exodus International, which later that year traveled to Uganda to tell the stupid Africans that gay people were destroying their families. The result? The widely condemned 'Kill the Gays' bill. Well, it wasn't completely condemned. The Chick Fil A sponsored Family Research Council lobbied Congress against approving a resolution denouncing Uganda's plan to execute homosexuals. If you don't think that there is a clear link between these groups and the anti-gay violence that is so common in this country and around the world, you are either deluding yourself or you are a fucking moron. After reading your wonderful posts for years, I'll assume it is the former. When you tell a bunch of idiotic Christian zealots that gay people are 'vile, pawns of the enemy', that they are immoral, that they are terrorists, and that the blood of US Marines is on their hands, most will be content to applaud because they are pussies who understand such comments are just an adult version of playground name calling. There will always be those few warriors for Christ who actually believe what they are being told, however. And if you believe all the things that Chick Fil A supported hate groups say about gay people, why wouldn't you want to hurt them? It's called 'incitement to violence', by the way.

No, I'm sorry, this is not about working for someone with different opinions than your own, or 'the ability to organize and cooperate with people we don't much like'. What Chick Fil A does is not normal corporate lobbying. Very few corporations give any money toward social issues, and even fewer donate directly to hate groups. Their activities go so far beyond a 'principled stance on marriage' (LOL) that the assertion of such is patently ridiculous.

Mhm, aren't we just full of self-righteousness... yeah, it's practically bursting out.

Here's a quote from Exodus International website:
"We will not support any legislation that deprives others of life and dignity based on their sexual orientation or the expression of such within the confines of a consensual adult relationship. Finally, we stand with the LGBT community both in spirit, and when necessary, legally and physically, when violence rears it’s head in Uganda, Jamaica or anywhere else in the world."

Kill the gays my ass.

[PanzerJaeger]

Did you actually just quote the statement the organization put out after its well documented involvement in the 'Kill the Gays' bill was brought to light? Yes, because when an organization comes under pressure over something it has done, the press release that follows is entirely accurate and truthful. I can believe that MRD is misinformed on this issue, but you... One Tribesy for you!

[Beskar]

Did you actually just quote the statement the organization put out after its well documented involvement in the 'Kill the Gays' bill was brought to light? Yes, because when an organization comes under pressure over something it has done, the press release that follows is entirely accurate and truthful. I can believe that MRD is misinformed on this issue, but you... One Tribesy for you!

It is because in standing for the rights of LBGT citizens, you are now a member of the liberal pinko commie socialist club by those on the right of the spectrum. Welcome

Kidding aside, the reality is, both you and MRD both have good points and I feel you misunderstood him.

Profits from Chick Fil A have gone into anti-LBGT legislation, that is a fact. However, MRD was pointing out the fact that most employees of Chick Fil A have no employment prospect and especially the situation at the moment in America it is very difficult to find work, so people usually grab the nearest thing to employment, get paid ridiculously low wages and toll away just so they have some money to put food on the table. Majority of these people do not have the opportunity or choice of working elsewhere.

[rvg]

Did you actually just quote the statement the organization put out after its well documented involvement in the 'Kill the Gays' bill was brought to light? Yes, because when an organization comes under pressure over something it has done, the press release that follows is entirely accurate and truthful. I can believe that MRD is misinformed on this issue, but you... One Tribesy for you!

Can you prove otherwise?

[PanzerJaeger]

Profits from Chick Fil A have gone into anti-LBGT legislation, that is a fact. However, MRD was pointing out the fact that most employees of Chick Fil A have no employment prospect and especially the situation at the moment in America it is very difficult to find work, so people usually grab the nearest thing to employment, get paid ridiculously low wages and toll away just so they have some money to put food on the table. Majority of these people do not have the opportunity or choice of working elsewhere.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that I was not refering to the minimum wage kids that sling their greasy slop. My first post on the matter clearly refered to 'middle management' and above. Those people do have other options.

Can you prove otherwise?

As I said, it is well documented.

For two days in early March 2009, Ugandans flocked to the Kampala Triangle Hotel for the Family Life Network's "Seminar on Exposing the Homosexuals' Agenda." The seminar's very title revealed its claim: LGBT people and activists are engaged in a well thought-out plan to take over the world. The U.S. culture wars had come to Africa with a vengeance.

To put on the conference, the Uganda-based Family Life Network – led by Stephen Langa with the goal of "restoring" traditional family values and morals in Uganda – teamed with two U.S. hatemongers from the Christian Right, Holocaust revisionist Scott Lively and Dan Schmierer of the ex-gay group Exodus International.[1] Vocal opposition in international circles did not stop the country's high profile religious leaders, parliamentarians, police officers, teachers, and concerned parents from attending. Indeed, parliamentary action to wage war on gays was on the conference agenda. It was not enough that homosexuality is illegal in Uganda. As someone stated from the podium,

[The parliament] feels it is necessary to draft a new law that deals comprehensively with the issue of homosexuality and …takes into account the international gay agenda….Right now there is a proposal that a new law be drafted.[2]

The unsuspecting audience heard Lively promote his book, The Pink Swastika, and his argument that not only are gays seeking to take over the world, but they also threaten society by causing higher rates of divorce, child abuse, and HIV/AIDS. Legalizing homosexuality is on par with accepting "molestation of children or having sex with animals," he said. As Lively puts it, LGBT issues cannot be considered human rights issues. "The people coming to Africa now and advancing the idea that human rights serves the homosexual interests are absolutely wrong," he said. "Many of them are outright liars and they are manipulating history; they are manipulating facts in order to push their political agenda." Lively even tarred abortion rights as "a product of the gay philosophy" meant to promote sexual promiscuity in order to "destroy the family." In sum, he warned, U.S. homosexuals are out to recruit young people into homosexual lifestyles so they must be stopped.

[rvg]

As I said, it is well documented.

Soooo, criticizing homosexual behavior == kill t3h gh3y?

The guy is not fond of homosexuals and is not afraid to admit it. So what? He's not the one who drafted the Uganda law, nor did he incite any violence against homosexuals. If Ugandan parliament is full of retards, that's not his fault.

[Montmorency]

It's somewhat ironic that the only Chick-fil-A in New York State is in Greenwich Village.

[Major Robert Dump]

You obviously missed the part where I said it was idiotic to harass the kids working at Chick Fil A. I am not attempting to defend the actions of the guy in your video, only to give some perspective on why Chick Fil A elicits such emotion from gay people and their supporters. It has nothing to do with Mr. Cathy's opinions, but his actions. Chick Fil A donates to hate groups. You may call them 'pussified', but that only demonstrates that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about on this issue. I won't even bother with all the anti-gay rhetoric or legislation that they lobby for in the United States, because that's just for pussies. How about their donation in 2009 to Exodus International, which later that year traveled to Uganda to tell the stupid Africans that gay people were destroying their families. The result? The widely condemned 'Kill the Gays' bill. Well, it wasn't completely condemned. The Chick Fil A sponsored Family Research Council lobbied Congress against approving a resolution denouncing Uganda's plan to execute homosexuals. If you don't think that there is a clear link between these groups and the anti-gay violence that is so common in this country and around the world, you are either deluding yourself or you are a fucking moron. After reading your wonderful posts for years, I'll assume it is the former. When you tell a bunch of idiotic Christian zealots that gay people are 'vile, pawns of the enemy', that they are immoral, that they are terrorists, and that the blood of US Marines is on their hands, most will be content to applaud because they are pussies who understand such comments are just an adult version of playground name calling. There will always be those few warriors for Christ who actually believe what they are being told, however. And if you believe all the things that Chick Fil A supported hate groups say about gay people, why wouldn't you want to hurt them? It's called 'incitement to violence', by the way.

No, I'm sorry, this is not about working for someone with different opinions than your own, or 'the ability to organize and cooperate with people we don't much like'. What Chick Fil A does is not normal corporate lobbying. Very few corporations give any money toward social issues, and even fewer donate directly to hate groups. Their activities go so far beyond a 'principled stance on marriage' (LOL) that the assertion of such is patently ridiculous.

My response was to your comments that you do not see how any grown up could choose a career at Chic Fil A. Not everyone can afford to walk away from employment because their bosses politics appalls them. If that were the case, we would lose 50% of our federal workers every four years. I happen to find mass scale financial crimes and cheats just as appalling as people who advocate the discrimination against others, because of the far reaching and permanent effects it has on people's lives and the future of the country, but I would never belittle someone for toiling awayfor Bank Of America or AIG, no matter how many lives they have destroyed. I do, however, refuse tot ake insurance cases from AIG because I can afford to.

The oringinal gay violence story you linked had nothing to do with Chic Fil A or the christian organizations. You may think it does, just like Fallout 3 made that guy shoot up the movie theater. Go ahead and make the connection if you want. Of course there are Americans who listen to these groups and act on their impulses, just like there are plenty of people who are anti-gay but not the least bit religious. Just like there are people who do things so idiotic and stupid we constantly walk a fine line of having or thoughts policed and our freedoms skimmed because we have to protect the masses from the savage few.

Regarding their activities in foriegn countries, with people who are ignorant, illiterate and superstitiously religious: Appalling isn't it? Just like so many of the other things US companies, political groups and the government itself supports. I am curious where this passion of yours was when we had ROEs in Iraq that advocated shooting anyone with a cell phone after an IED exploded, when we put people in jail for a non violent drug crime, when we bombed the civilians in Belgrade to avoid fighting the Serbs on the battlefield, and when we gave corporations the rights of a human being to buy and sell US poloiticians at their whim? I dunno, maybe the passion is there and I just missed it.

I am well aware of the garbage this organization puts out and the things they support, and would never associate with them. And I have said time and time again that Cathy is an idiot, and would never survive if he had share holders.

Nothing I saw on Tony Perkins list of quotes was all that worse than the crap spewed back and forth between the parties and their pundits, to include the stuff about the military. Typical American loudmouth. Carry on.

So this guy is supporting hate groups by proxy. Nothing new here. I seem to recall there were Republican congressmen who were ddeply involved with the Kill The Gay Ugandans issue, yet they continue to serve in office. Why aren't you attacking the people who voted for Jim Inhofe?

You seem to think I am completely unaware of what is going on and a "flowershaped meringue" when in fact the only thing I took issue with was your disdain for someone's choice of employment in a period of 9% unemployment and the worst economy of our life. So I will leave you to it.

[Papewaio]

Gentlemen. Please shake hands, look each other in the eye and play nicely.

Just don't shake hands at chicken fill a as they might get the wrong idea and try and beat you to death with a drumstick.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Gentlemen. Please shake hands, look each other in the eye and play nicely.

Just don't shake hands at chicken fill a as they might get the wrong idea and try and beat you to death with a drumstick.

NO U! WHY DONT YOU TAKE THE CHICKEN AND EAT SUCH THAT THE 8 DOLLARS BECOMES OPPRESSIVE???

[PanzerJaeger]

Soooo, criticizing homosexual behavior == kill t3h gh3y?

The guy is not fond of homosexuals and is not afraid to admit it. So what? He's not the one who drafted the Uganda law, nor did he incite any violence against homosexuals. If Ugandan parliament is full of retards, that's not his fault.

There is none so blind as he who will not see. When you knowingly and willfully accept an invitation to speak about the evils of the gay lifestyle at a conference where legislation to kill gay people is on the agenda, I think it is safe to say that you are complicit in such legislation. These guys were invited to provide the 'scientific' basis for the bill, which included meetings with the parliamentarians about the bill, and they gladly accepted.

That is some of the whackiest I've ever heard. Some people are nuts.

They would be doing exactly the same thing in the US if they thought they could get away with it.

My response was to your comments that you do not see how any grown up could choose a career at Chic Fil A. Not everyone can afford to walk away from employment because their bosses politics appalls them. If that were the case, we would lose 50% of our federal workers every four years. I happen to find mass scale financial crimes and cheats just as appalling as people who advocate the discrimination against others, because of the far reaching and permanent effects it has on people's lives and the future of the country, but I would never belittle someone for toiling awayfor Bank Of America or AIG, no matter how many lives they have destroyed. I do, however, refuse tot ake insurance cases from AIG because I can afford to.

The oringinal gay violence story you linked had nothing to do with Chic Fil A or the christian organizations. You may think it does, just like Fallout 3 made that guy shoot up the movie theater. Go ahead and make the connection if you want. Of course there are Americans who listen to these groups and act on their impulses, just like there are plenty of people who are anti-gay but not the least bit religious. Just like there are people who do things so idiotic and stupid we constantly walk a fine line of having or thoughts policed and our freedoms skimmed because we have to protect the masses from the savage few.

Regarding their activities in foriegn countries, with people who are ignorant, illiterate and superstitiously religious: Appalling isn't it? Just like so many of the other things US companies, political groups and the government itself supports. I am curious where this passion of yours was when we had ROEs in Iraq that advocated shooting anyone with a cell phone after an IED exploded, when we put people in jail for a non violent drug crime, when we bombed the civilians in Belgrade to avoid fighting the Serbs on the battlefield, and when we gave corporations the rights of a human being to buy and sell US poloiticians at their whim? I dunno, maybe the passion is there and I just missed it.

I am well aware of the garbage this organization puts out and the things they support, and would never associate with them. And I have said time and time again that Cathy is an idiot, and would never survive if he had share holders.

Nothing I saw on Tony Perkins list of quotes was all that worse than the crap spewed back and forth between the parties and their pundits, to include the stuff about the military. Typical American loudmouth. Carry on.

So this guy is supporting hate groups by proxy. Nothing new here. I seem to recall there were Republican congressmen who were ddeply involved with the Kill The Gay Ugandans issue, yet they continue to serve in office. Why aren't you attacking the people who voted for Jim Inhofe?

You seem to think I am completely unaware of what is going on and a "flowershaped meringues" when in fact the only thing I took issue with was your disdain for someone's choice of employment in a period of 9% unemployment and the worst economy of our life. So I will leave you to it.

First of all, the idea that because I haven’t taken a vocal stand, in the backroom, against every unethical action undertaken by every organization that has ever existed means that I have no place to speak out against any unethical action is patently absurd. I suggest that you rethink that one.

Also, your comparison to AIG et al is similarly poorly thought out. What those financial companies did was greedy, reckless, unethical, and certainly very damaging. However, getting caught up in the creation of an asset bubble involves completely different motivations than donating to hate groups. AIG executives did not hate the American people, and were not acting out of malice – only self-interest. Chick Fil A gets nothing out of its donations other than the satisfaction that they are hurting gay people.

Second, this is not 2009 anymore. People working as executives in a large corporation like Chick Fil A have plenty of other employment options. Please spare me the sob story about 9% unemployment, as it has no bearing on the people being discussed.

Third, ‘Nothing I saw on Tony Perkins list of quotes was all that worse than the crap spewed back and forth between the parties and their pundits, to include the stuff about the military. Typical American loudmouth. Carry on.’ You must be joking. Not even in the deepest, darkest corners of MSNBC or Fox Business are such things uttered. Here’s a thought exercise for you. Replace ‘homosexuals’ with ‘blacks’ or ‘Jews’ and see how easy such statements are to shrug off.

Fourth, ‘So this guy is supporting hate groups by proxy. Nothing new here.’ LOL. What a pathetic attitude. I’m sorry, maybe I’ve become a bleeding heart, but if I were to find out that the organization I work for donates to groups that are equivalent to the KKK, I would seek other work. Your assertion that all companies do this kind of thing and it’s no big deal is, quite frankly, bullshit. This is not normal corporate behavior, and there are plenty of companies that do not engage in such activity, most actually.

Finally, while I did not directly call you a "flowershaped meringue", I would like to apologize. While RVG was attempting to mock me (in his own adorable way), he was very correct – my passion on this issue is very strong. It was uncalled for, and I am sorry.

[rvg]

There is none so blind as he who will not see. When you knowingly and willfully accept an invitation to speak about the evils of the gay lifestyle at a conference where legislation to kill gay people is on the agenda, I think it is safe to say that you are complicit in such legislation. These guys were invited to provide the 'scientific' basis for the bill, which included meetings with the parliamentarians about the bill, and they gladly accepted.

Right, because one thing that an African parliamentary needs before drafting a law is a nod from a white man in a suit. It's convenient to blame the honkey for this one, but ultimately incorrect.

[Lemur]

Right, because one thing that an African parliamentary needs before drafting a law is a nod from a white man in a suit. It's convenient to blame the honkey for this one, but ultimately incorrect.

I don't see where PJ made that argument; he's saying that by confirming and affirming anti-homosexual rhetoric to people who intended to kill homosexuals, Perkins bears some responsibility. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Any neo-colonial Only White People Do Bad Things rhetoric is coming from you, not Panzer.

[rvg]

...by confirming and affirming anti-homosexual rhetoric to people who intended to kill homosexuals, Perkins bears some responsibility.

How? Is Perkins a mind reader? How was he supposed to know that they intended to kill homosexuals? And why is his public disavowing of the Ugandan bill cannot be considered genuine? He said that the spread of homosexuality must be stopped, he never explicitly or implicitly mentioned any sorts of violent methods.

[Lemur]

How? Is Perkins a mind reader? How was he supposed to know that they intended to kill homosexuals? And why is his public disavowing of the Ugandan bill cannot be considered genuine? He said that the spread of homosexuality must be stopped, he never explicitly or implicitly mentioned any sorts of violent methods.

Well, how about a simple rule: When travelling to a place where the price of machetes spikes during election season, don't use eliminationist rhetoric. That would keep everybody on the correct side of the line.

I find it very hard to believe that you would be so understanding and forgiving if a different group were targeted.

Let's say, for example, that a prominent leftist from the USA traveled to Cambodia and gave a speech about how landowners were the enemy and should be eliminated. Then, surprise, landowners are killed. In this scenario, do you think the person giving the speech should feel, oh, I don't know, shame and horror?

[Fragony]

How? Is Perkins a mind reader? How was he supposed to know that they intended to kill homosexuals?

He should have known and could have known that some will actually do such a thing

[rvg]

Well, how about a simple rule: When travelling to a place where the price of machetes spikes during election season, don't use eliminationist rhetoric. That would keep everybody on the correct side of the line.

I find it very hard to believe that you would be so understanding and forgiving if a different group were targeted.

Let's say, for example, that a prominent leftist from the USA traveled to Cambodia and gave a speech about how landowners were the enemy and should be eliminated. Then, surprise, landowners are killed. In this scenario, do you think the person giving the speech should feel, oh, I don't know, shame and horror?

I bolded the most important word, the one that Perkins did not use. He used the word stopped, not quite the same. Furthermore, the Ugandan law is one of a kind in its severity with no precedent even by African standards. Perkins had no reason to believe they'd take the law that far, making his disavowing of the law genuine.

[Lemur]

Furthermore, the Ugandan law is one of a kind in its severity with no precedent even by African standards. Perkins had no reason to believe they'd take the law that far, making his disavowing of the law genuine.

And interestingly, as recently as mid-2010, Perkins was defending the bill on-air. FRC has since deleted the transcript, but the internets have a long memory. Transcript:

Hello, I am Tony Perkins with the Family Research Council. At the recent National Prayer Breakfast, President Obama took the podium calling for greater civility in Washington, which in my opinion is a laudable goal. However, his comments quickly turned to his preoccupation with defending homosexuality. The President criticized Ugandan leaders for considering enhance penalties for crimes related to homosexuality. The press has widely mischaracterized the law which calls for the death penalty, not for homosexual behavior which is already a crime, but for acts such as intentionally spreading HIV/AIDS, or preying upon vulnerable individuals such as children, which has been a problem in Uganda for years because the large number of orphans. The President said that "We may disagree about gay marriage, "but surely we can agree that it is unconscionable to target gays and lesbians for who they are." Mr. President as long as you characterize efforts to uphold moral conduct that protects others and in particular the most vulnerable, as attacking people, civility will continue to evade us.

So to summarize: the bill isn't that bad, think of the childrens, and if them queers would stop spreading AIDS we wouldn't have these here problems.

Note also that when the US congress was preparing a condemnation of the Ugandan bill, the FRC labelled the condemnation as pro-homosexual promotion.

Also note that despite the fact that primary sources for their lobbying have been published, FRC later claimed they had not, in fact, lobbied against the Congressional resolution. In other words, who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

Sounds to me like they've been all over the map on the Ugandan law, and are documented as lying about it at least once. And now they have a statement up about how they don't like it and would never support it. Panzer's skepticism is entirely justified.

[Major Robert Dump]

First of all, the idea that because I haven’t taken a vocal stand, in the backroom, against every unethical action undertaken by every organization that has ever existed means that I have no place to speak out against any unethical action is patently absurd. I suggest that you rethink that one.

Never said that. And the idea that I have not flown off the handle and up your butt every time you hold an opinion that I disagree with confuses me as to where this sudden strike of anger is coming from. There are equally pissy things going on in and around this country than a loud mouth's financial support for the anti gay movement, so right now I am trying to figure out what the oppression/travesty exchange rate is for, say, gay dudes in Uganda vs Dow Chemical's cancer babies. This would make an interesting poker game.

Also, your comparison to AIG et al is similarly poorly thought out. What those financial companies did was greedy, reckless, unethical, and certainly very damaging. However, getting caught up in the creation of an asset bubble involves completely different motivations than donating to hate groups. AIG executives did not hate the American people, and were not acting out of malice – only self-interest. Chick Fil A gets nothing out of its donations other than the satisfaction that they are hurting gay people.

So intent is more important than outcome? The lesser of evil intents is it? Because no one ever died from stress induced illnesses, or committed suicide, or flew off the deep end, or committed crimes against society because they had everything ripped from them and the people responsible not only did not lose their jobs, but were rewarded and excused. And no certainly no "greedy, reckless, unethical, and certainly very damaging" actions (and the state's failure to hold them accountable) have never, ever resulted in people being hurt or killed in the workplace. Ever.

So, if it's all about the Benjamins, that makes it less bad. Got it.

Second, this is not 2009 anymore. People working as executives in a large corporation like Chick Fil A have plenty of other employment options. Please spare me the sob story about 9% unemployment, as it has no bearing on the people being discussed.

I have no idea how we got from a girl in the drive thru, to "middle management and above" (post 50) and now to executives.

Huge difference between middle management and executives, and I would dare say that NO, middle management type may very well NOT have other immediate career options, assuming your definition of MM is the in-store managers and assistants and franchise owners. Maybe an "executive" quitting over this will get him or her some brownie points on the resume and maybe even some positive PR with the press, but to suggest that a store manager or assistant can just bail on his job and find another pronto is a bit of a stretch, and to think some guy who spent a quarter mill getting franchised will just walk away from his investment is also crazy. Ultimately it is their own fault for not doing better research on the team with which they signed on, but I'm not going to lambast them for it. No SOB story here, and it very much has bearing on the story because if it were not for the piss poor economy I am sure more of CFAs employees might have already bailed. Were I a headhunter for the QSR industry, I would be reaching out to CFA employees, assuming there were jobs to be filled.

Third, ‘Nothing I saw on Tony Perkins list of quotes was all that worse than the crap spewed back and forth between the parties and their pundits, to include the stuff about the military. Typical American loudmouth. Carry on.’ You must be joking. Not even in the deepest, darkest corners of MSNBC or Fox Business are such things uttered. Here’s a thought exercise for you. Replace ‘homosexuals’ with ‘blacks’ or ‘Jews’ and see how easy such statements are to shrug off.

Really? Because I seem to recall tales of the military being destroyed and troops being killed when DADT was repealed. I seem to recall this guy on MSNBC name Kieth Olbermann and good old Murtha who liked to paint combat troops with a very broad brush and call them all murderers. I seem to recall Glenn Beck thinking all muslims are extrememists and backing a hold on immigrants, which could very well stoke the fires of crimes against immigrants. I seem to recall a PResident who first denied hearing, then later changed it to "hearing but disagreeing with" his pastor's Kill Whitey rhetoric.

Oh, and there are a disturbing number of members of Congress lining up to support CFA as we speak, and FOX Host Mike Huckabee was behind the CFA appreciation day rallies.

Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond practically died in office. Tom Delay was a known crook and thief yet served term after term because he brought money to his district and only resigned so he could prepare to defend himself over his appalling participation in crimes against the country and against migrant workers in the Mrianne Islands that included forced abortions.

As stated before, Jim Inhofe has been a very vocal supporter of FRC, and did not sever ties when he was "informed" of the issue in Uganda. The FRC held a rallies in 2010 in which Gingirch, Santorum and bunched of others gave speeches. The FRC was already up to no good in Africa then, this was no secret. This is not a new issue. Where have you been?

Fourth, ‘So this guy is supporting hate groups by proxy. Nothing new here.’ LOL. What a pathetic attitude. I’m sorry, maybe I’ve become a bleeding heart, but if I were to find out that the organization I work for donates to groups that are equivalent to the KKK, I would seek other work. Your assertion that all companies do this kind of thing and it’s no big deal is, quite frankly, bullshit. This is not normal corporate behavior, and there are plenty of companies that do not engage in such activity, most actually.

You're right. It is pathetic. It comes from not caring anymore.

No, you're right, most companies don't donate to hate groups. But they do donate to causes that many people disagree with, or to figures that in turn use the funds for appalling measures. Again, back to the guys mentioned above.

This reminds me of the sudden interest everyone had for Joseph Koney, whose exploits I have been following for the better part of my life, wondering why no one does anything about it, and then when I responded luke warm to the sudden surge of interest this year, suddenly I am the heartless sonofabitch? I think not.

And please, stop with the KKK stuff. Really. Huge difference.

Finally, while I did not directly call you a "flowershaped meringue", I would like to apologize. While RVG was attempting to mock me (in his own adorable way), he was very correct – my passion on this issue is very strong. It was uncalled for, and I am sorry.

No problem. I get a little swarmy when I think people are attacking the working stiff.

[rvg]

Transcript: ...The press has widely mischaracterized the law which calls for the death penalty, not for homosexual behavior which is already a crime, but for acts such as intentionally spreading HIV/AIDS, or preying upon vulnerable individuals such as children, which has been a problem in Uganda for years because the large number of orphans...[/ind]

Now, here in the States you can get 25 years in the clink for knowingly transmitting HIV and/or not telling the person you're screwing that you're HIV positive. The law also doesn't look kindly on diddling kids (just ask Jerry Sandusky). While the punishment is a bit too harsh, Perkins makes a good point about it being misrepresented: they aren't trying to criminalize homosexual behavior, it's already illegal there. They are trying to limit the spread of HIV and prevent sexual abuse of minors.

[Visor]

This thread makes me glad I live in Australia, where we have higher minimum wage, and a lower unemployment rate. Though I do see some people who have to work crap shifts for crap money, it certainly isn't as bad as America seems to be.

[Lemur]

Perkins makes a good point about [Uganda's law] being misrepresented [...] They are trying to limit the spread of HIV and prevent sexual abuse of minors.

Uh-huh. The Ugandan law has been "misrepresented." Really.

Note that under the new Ugandan law, homosexuality is divided into two categories: "aggravated homosexuality", in which an offender receives the death penalty, or "the offense of homosexuality" in which an offender receives life in a Ugandan prison.

"Aggravated homosexuality" is what you're referring to, where the queer in question is HIV-positive, uses "intoxicating substances" (such as beer), is a "repeat offender," or has sex with a minor. That's the death penalty right there.

Just generally being fabulous nets you life in prison.

Explain to me how the bill is being misrepresented.

[rvg]

Just generally being fabulous nets you life in prison.

Homosexuality has been criminalized in Uganda long before this law.

[Lemur]

Homosexuality has been criminalized in Uganda long before this law.

As you've already said; repetition is not a reasoned argument.

Under the new Ugandan bill, homosexuals get to choose between life imprisonment and death. That's what's got people riled up. The bill is not, as you and the FRC claim, primarily about preventing the spread of HIV. Rather, if I buy you a beer and consensually bugger you behind the chemical sheds, it's death for me and life in the clink for you.

This has people understandably upset.

Moreover, the FRC is on record lobbying against any condemnation of the Ugandan death-to-gays bill, and then lying about their lobbying once word got out. (This was not a casual effort, their filings show they paid $25,000 to lobbyists in their attempt to modify or kill the bill.)

Further muddying the issue, the Ugandan kill-the-gays bill's sponsor, MP David Bahati, says on video that "many American Evangelicals who publicly condemn the bill have told him they privately support it."

I don't see how you can defend FRC on this one.

-edit-

Since we're wandering a bit from the OP: I support Dan Cathy's right to free speech on every level. I also think mayors claiming they can block private businesses (that are breaking no laws) from establishing in their city limits to be insane. The First Amendment overrides their bullying. That said, the Family Research Council is a horrible hate group co-founded by a self-hating closeted man. The FRC also has a well-documented history of misrepresenting their actions, their staff, and their history. So not only are they a hate group, they are a lying hate group.

Also note that whenever a representative of FRC is forced to openly debate, they tend to get crushed. Hence the lying, I suppose.

[rvg]

Under the new Ugandan bill, homosexuals get to choose between life imprisonment and death. That's what's got people riled up. The bill is not, as you and the FRC claim, primarily about preventing the spread of HIV. Rather, if I buy you a beer and consensually bugger you behind the chemical sheds, it's death for me and life in the clink for you.

Not true. We'd both get 7 years in jail. See for yourself (at the very bottom): http://www.religiondispatches.org/di...anti-gay_bill/