Graduation Gift. Beretta Px4 Storm & 200 Winchester full metal jacket rounds

[Strike For The South]

Because there is no gun control in Texas. Off to the range

[a completely inoffensive name]

Wiki link for the curious:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Px4_Storm

[Fragony]

Am I asking too much if I want you to give it to me

[Gregoshi]

Am I asking too much if I want you to give it to me

Fragony, just order a "TV" from Amazon.com...

[HoreTore]

Italian-made?

You unpatriotic scumbag!!

Also, rifles = boys, pistols = girlieboys.

[ICantSpellDawg]

That is a great gun. I hate you up in NY. The countdown to first handgun is on - the week after I get back from Turkey

[Greyblades]

Italian-made?

You unpatriotic scumbag!!

Also, rifles = boys, pistols = girlieboys.

None = Men

[Hax]

Relevant.

[Sarmatian]

What a fitting gift!

Now, imagine a howitzer if you get a doctorate!

[Vuk]

What a fitting gift!

Now, imagine a howitzer if you get a doctorate!

Come now Sarmatian, do you deny that you would love to get a gift like that?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I have three questions:

1. Why do you want a pistol?

2. Why do you want a 9mm?

3. Why on earth would you want FMG?

I don't understand - even the part of me that loves guns doesn't understand.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I have three questions:

1. Why do you want a pistol?

2. Why do you want a 9mm?

3. Why on earth would you want FMG?

I don't understand - even the part of me that loves guns doesn't understand.

FMJ are the preferred rounds for range shooting. 9mm are one of the cheapest rounds to purchase (other than 22 rimfire which would be great for defending yourself against marauding squirrels). Pistols are great weapons for people who aren't hunters.

Your 3 questions reveal that you know absolutely nothing about handguns, as does your geographic location. Why don't you go ask your local police department to help you understand them? Oh, that's right because they would look at you as though you had 2 heads because they probably wouldn't have the faintest.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

FMJ are the preferred rounds for range shooting. 9mm are one of the cheapest rounds to purchase (other than 22 rimfire which would be great for defending yourself against marauding squirrels). Pistols are great weapons for people who aren't hunters.

Your 3 questions reveal that you know absolutely nothing about handguns, as does your geographic location. Why don't you go ask your local police department to help you understand them? Oh, that's right because they would look at you as though you had 2 heads because they probably wouldn't have the faintest.

Ooooh, look at the big scary American with his knowledge of firearms!

Not.

I know FMG are the "preferred rounds" for range shooting but I've used FMG and hollow point in a rifle, and at the end of the day you should shoot with the round you plan on using in the field - the preferred round for soft targets, especially at close range (people you shoot with handguns) is hollow point.

From the perspective of target shooting, why use a pistol when you can use a long arm?

I don't understand why you'd have a gun except to kill something with, that's why I learned to shoot.

If I was minded to use a weapon for self defence I'd use a bigger caliber and hollow points, because 9mm won't reliably put a man down outside point-blank range, although pistols generally aren't as good at putting people on their backs as shotguns or rifles because of the lower muzzle velocity, which also affects target accuracy, of course.

So - personally - I'd be much more excited if I was given an enfield bolt-action .30 caliber rifle.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I apologize, I inferred that when you asked "why on earth you would want FMG" that you couldn't think of a reason on earth to want FMG.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I apologize, I inferred that when you asked "why on earth you would want FMG" that you couldn't think of a reason on earth to want FMG.

People assume that because I spend most of my time quoting the "nice" bits of the Bible, and arguing for universal healthcare and free universities that I'm some sort of urban Liberal.

Whatt most people don't realise is that seven years ago I was going to university in expectation of entering Sandhurst and hopefully taking a Commission in the Intelligence Corps.

Turns out, I don't like killing things, but I know very well how to do it with firearms.

So, what I meant was:

"I can't really see much of a reason for FMG in a handgun in a civilian context."

I appreciate your apology, but I must say that just because I am English doesn't mean I don't know my way around a firearm.

[PanzerJaeger]

Congratulations Strike! That's a great all purpose pistol. Beretta makes quality weapons. You'll of course need to get the PX4's mate, the CX4 - one of my favorite shooters. It's super accurate, can be used in indoor ranges, and isn't a bad choice for home defense either. Your mags will be interchangeable as well.



Everyone is gettings guns in the Backroom (well, everyone who lives in a nation that trusts them with that particular freedom). We should start a gun club. :grin:

May I ask what you majored in?

I know FMG are the "preferred rounds" for range shooting but I've used FMG and hollow point in a rifle, and at the end of the day you should shoot with the round you plan on using in the field - the preferred round for soft targets, especially at close range (people you shoot with handguns) is hollow point.

That's largely untrue in this context. If you can group well with a pistol at defensive ranges with FMJ, you can group well with any round. If you're really worried, just make sure to match the grains. Power differences and how they impact recoil are much more likely to throw you off than the type of bullet used. Throwing hollow points down range is a needless waste of money.

[Fragony]

Ooooh, look at the big scary American with his knowledge of firearms!

Not.

I know FMG are the "preferred rounds" for range shooting but I've used FMG and hollow point in a rifle, and at the end of the day you should shoot with the round you plan on using in the field - the preferred round for soft targets, especially at close range (people you shoot with handguns) is hollow point.

From the perspective of target shooting, why use a pistol when you can use a long arm?

I don't understand why you'd have a gun except to kill something with, that's why I learned to shoot.

If I was minded to use a weapon for self defence I'd use a bigger caliber and hollow points, because 9mm won't reliably put a man down outside point-blank range, although pistols generally aren't as good at putting people on their backs as shotguns or rifles because of the lower muzzle velocity, which also affects target accuracy, of course.

So - personally - I'd be much more excited if I was given an enfield bolt-action .30 caliber rifle.

Why use hollow-points if you only intend to shoot at cards

[Sarmatian]

Come now Sarmatian, do you deny that you would love to get a gift like that?

I'd like a howitzer. I'd put it somewhere on the Petrovaradin fortress and then demand a passage fee from all ships sailing the Danube.

I can't really scare them enough to pay me with a handgun, now can I?

[rajpoot]

Now that is a nice graduation gift!

Now over here it'll probably be easier to rob a bank and get away with it than trying to buy a licensed working firearm.

[Vuk]

I'd like a howitzer. I'd put it somewhere on the Petrovaradin fortress and then demand a passage fee from all ships sailing the Danube.

I can't really scare them enough to pay me with a handgun, now can I?

Bit of a difference, eh? A pistol is a personal weapon, and a howitzer a crew weapon. Personally, I'd love if every town/city/township had its own militia, and owned a few M2s, and in the larger places some artillery pieces and tanks, but that will never happen. A person though should definitely be allowed to own a personal weapon. The handgun he has is such a pathetic little piece of shit that it is only mildly useful (when compared to alternatives) for self-defense, and would be a last choice for anyone wanting to go kill their neighbors, get in a shootout with the police, etc. Why would someone owning one worry you? The only possible reason a civvy with a brain would buy one is self-defense or target shooting.

[Papewaio]

If a 9mm hand gun is lethal within the ranges typically people endup in a shooting. Then it is sufficient for self defense.

If you did a database crunch on most self defense shootings they probably are going to be:
Within 10m
In confined spaces ie indoors, in a car, an alleyway, a shopping centre or the largest area a carpark.
Dark
Confusion... Most muggers will probably not challenge you to go for your gun thu will either have a knife or a gun in your gut before they demand a wallet.

If these are the typical scenarios then a small firearms would be much better then a weapon made for a long range firefight.

[Vuk]

If a 9mm hand gun is lethal within the ranges typically people endup in a shooting. Then it is sufficient for self defense.

If you did a database crunch on most self defense shootings they probably are going to be:
Within 10m
In confined spaces ie indoors, in a car, an alleyway, a shopping centre or the largest area a carpark.
Dark
Confusion... Most muggers will probably not challenge you to go for your gun thu will either have a knife or a gun in your gut before they demand a wallet.

If these are the typical scenarios then a small firearms would be much better then a weapon made for a long range firefight.

Yeah, but the 9mm is not nearly as effective as other rounds. Also, its short range limits it. Sure, most self-defense scenarios may happen at absurdly close-ranges, but not all. Why bother with the limitations when you could add 2 inches onto the barrel and change the caliber? A .45, a 357, a .50 AE with frangible rounds, all of these would be better options for self-defense. They would kill better, and still could be used in a short enough pistol as to make it ideal for self-defense. Sure, a DE would take a split-second longer to draw, so you may not want it, but why not a 45 Super or a 357?
9mm does not kill consistently enough with the first shot for me to trust it with my life. I'll stick to my .50 AE and my .45, thanks.

[Vuk]

Vuk, you missed his point. Everyone knows and agrees upon the failings of the 9mm round, but Pape was explaining why those failings don't matter in a typical self-defense scenario. Against a car-jacking, home invasion, mugging, or even the fabled 'save the 7/11 clerk from the armed robber' scenario, a 9mm will do just fine--and, in fact, almost any pistol is more ideal for those situations than some kind of rifle.

I wasn't arguing for rifles though. My argument to Sarmatian was that a tiny 9mm pistol is not something someone who wants to go getting in a gun war with the police is going to buy, as the only possible reason you would buy it is self-defense. I then made a side-point that it is even not as well-suited to self-defense as other weapons. I agree that most times any pistol would do (even a single-shot .22 lr is probably gonna be enough most times in single-attacker scenarios if you have good shot placement), but I was arguing that I believe your chances of survival would increase more with other weapons, and therefore a small 9mm isn't necessarily better than other handguns for self-defense.

[Montmorency]

9mm does not kill consistently enough with the first shot for me to trust it with my life.

The purpose of self-defense is not to kill anyone on the first draw who looks at you funny; you're not in an old-timey Western film.

It is worrying to see a weapon in the hands of one who's favored attribute in weapons of self-defense is lethality. To incapacitate is more than enough, so speed, reliability, and ease of use are surely far more valuable qualities.

[Vuk]

Also, I should add that I don't carry, because I live in a really rural area and don't feel the need right now. Because of that, my guns are mostly for home defense, so my needs in a pistol are slightly different than someone carrying. (though I think I would still prefer a .45 if I was carrying)

[Vuk]

The purpose of self-defense is not to kill anyone on the first draw who looks at you funny; you're not in an old-timey Western film.

It is worrying to see a weapon in the hands of one who's favored attribute in weapons of self-defense is lethality. To incapacitate is more than enough, so speed, reliability, and ease of use are surely far more valuable qualities.

You are falling into the widespread lethal trap that many self-defense experts fall into Montmorency, and that is not realizing that they only way to effectively and consistently incapacitate a perp is by physically damaging them till the point they can no longer damage you. Fear and pain only work on sane people who are not on substances, and the chances of your attacker being on substances, or not being a very sane individual are pretty high.
First of all, I am a firm believer in winging people if you are able, and only if that doesn't stop them shooting to kill. If I don't have the ability to do that, or if doing so will endanger me or those around me (because taking the extra time will allow the other guy to get a shot off), I am gonna pointshoot for a mass I know I can hit as soon as possible (and that will be his vitals), and I am gonna want a gun that can stop him instantly, before he gets a shot off.

If a guy is on drugs and/or crazed Mont, putting a few little holes in him will not always stop him from killing you. If you want to stay alive, you need to kill him before he can kill you. Like I say, if you can plug him in the shoulders and make him drop his weapon, fine, but if not, you are gonna need a weapon that puts him down reliably and consistently.

P.S. I love how you assume that I would I am suddenly going to shoot anyone who looks funny at me.

[Vuk]

I agree. That's why I bought a .38, which will put a large hole in someone at any reasonable self-defense range. However, 9mm handguns aren't all that bad. For self-defense purposes, it will still get the job done--and with less possibility for collateral damage than other kinds of rounds. True, it has trouble peircing any kind of body armor, but for most self-defense situations that is a non-issue. For target shooting, 9mm pistols such as a Beretta seem tailor-made--low recoil, cheap rounds, etc. The difference in recoil between a Beretta M9 and my little .38 Revolver is night-and-day--the first time I took my .38 target shooting I gave myself a big fat blister/sore/thing on my thumb, something which never happened with an M9 no matter how much I shot it.

Basically, 9mm weapons have their uses and are still perfectly serviceable for a self-defense situation. And for target shooting, they are fantastic. For a concerned city-dweller, the pros of 9mm outweigh the cons.

I agree, but I always prefer the larger ones, since I also like to target shoot on my property and like the increased range and accuracy. My largest pistol is currently a .45, but I want to get a desert eagle .50 AE one day. The way I see it is that being equiped with frangible rounds means I won't have to worry about damaging civilians behind my intended target, and it will still be one hell of punch to anyone in body-armour. (not that I am horribly concerned about that scenario, but if I ever was ever being attacked by a wacko like the one in Colorado, it would be nice to have something that would be effective)

[Xiahou]

Why a .38 and not a .357 magnum? It can shoot the cheaper .38 rounds but still have the magnum's stopping power when you want it.

JHP in .357mag is a pretty great self-defense round. But, if you're looking to keep a gun around the house for defense, I don't think you can do any better than a 12 gauge shotgun.

[PanzerJaeger]

Yeah, but the 9mm is not nearly as effective as other rounds. Also, its short range limits it. Sure, most self-defense scenarios may happen at absurdly close-ranges, but not all. Why bother with the limitations when you could add 2 inches onto the barrel and change the caliber? A .45, a 357, a .50 AE with frangible rounds, all of these would be better options for self-defense. They would kill better, and still could be used in a short enough pistol as to make it ideal for self-defense. Sure, a DE would take a split-second longer to draw, so you may not want it, but why not a 45 Super or a 357?
9mm does not kill consistently enough with the first shot for me to trust it with my life. I'll stick to my .50 AE and my .45, thanks.

A Desert Eagle? For carry?? No one really needs anything more than .380 in a carry gun. On the rare occasion that I carry, its a Sig P230.

[drone]

The Px4 Storm comes in 9mm, .40, and .45 cals, and I don't believe Strike has specified which one he got. So can we dispense with the peniscaliber measuring for a while and congratulate the boy on his present. Sheesh.