Euro Area

**Sarmatian** · 10-21-2012, 20:59

Are some people actually arguing that British parliamentary system is the only valid/legitimate/democratic system there is?

**Greyblades** · 10-21-2012, 21:16

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Are some people actually arguing that British parliamentary system is the only valid/legitimate/democratic system there is?

Not me, I'm just messing with krazelic.

**Fragony** · 10-22-2012, 07:09

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Not me, I'm just messing with krazelic.

Which is always a good idea imho

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 10-21-2012, 21:51

Originally Posted by Kralizec

A lot of countries stole your idea and added variations to it, so you Brits no longer get to decide what a "proper" parliamentary system is

The defining feature is that the executive depends on the willingness of parliament to support it, and that conversely it can be sacked by a vote of no confidence.

That ministers can't have seats in parliament over here is, as you indicated, meant to seperate powers. It's thought that parliament would be a more credible check on the executive if the executive doesn't get a vote.

The defining feature of a parliamentary system is that the parliament is Sovereign - hence the executive is drawn from the parliament, and must be. Otherwise, you would have two Sovereign branches who can oppose each other.

Having an elected chamber is a feature of most systems of government - it is not unique to the Parliamentary System.

What is unique is the deliberate lack of Separation of Powers.

Recently, Britain has been infected by European governmental practice via the EU, so that the Lord Chancellor is no longer the highest Judge in the land, we now have a separate and excessively activist "Supreme Court" and the Lords are no longer presided over by the Lord Chancellor, with the result that the last three Lord Chancellors have sat in the Commons, not the Lords.

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Are some people actually arguing that British parliamentary system is the only valid/legitimate/democratic system there is?

No - I'm just arguing that a separate executive is not a "Parliamentary" System.

**Kralizec** · 10-21-2012, 22:47

Not according to political science or constitutional theory. According to those, most systems in the world would fall under to one of these catagories:

1. Presidential systems, with an executive President who is completely independant of the legislature
2. Parliamentary systems, where the head of state is either a king or a non-executive president, and where the actual executive must enjoy support from the legislature.
3. Hybrid systems, or "semi-presidential" systems, of which France is the most well known. The ministers are appointed by the president but must also be supported by the assembly.

In Westminster systems the executive is derived from, and has seats in parliament. In other countries like Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands having a seat in parliament is not necessary - and in the case of the Netherlands, not allowed. They still operate as parliamentary systems, regardless.

EDIT:

Recently, Britain has been infected by European governmental practice via the EU, so that the Lord Chancellor is no longer the highest Judge in the land, we now have a separate and excessively activist "Supreme Court" and the Lords are no longer presided over by the Lord Chancellor, with the result that the last three Lord Chancellors have sat in the Commons, not the Lords.

I know about those changes, good stuff. Allthough I suppose people can disagree on that.

What does the EU have to do with it?

**SoFarSoGood** · 10-22-2012, 14:32

Originally Posted by Kralizec

What does the EU have to do with it?

Do you regard the EU as democratic?

**Conradus** · 10-22-2012, 11:07

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

The defining feature of a parliamentary system is that the parliament is Sovereign - hence the executive is drawn from the parliament, and must be. Otherwise, you would have two Sovereign branches who can oppose each other.

I don't know where you got that definition. Wiki: A parliamentary system is a system of democratic government in which the ministers of the Executive Branch derive their legitimacy from and are accountable to a Legislature or parliament; the Executive and Legislative branches are interconnected.

Whether or not your ministers were members of Parliament doesn't change anything about their accountability to Parliament, or the legitimacy of their government.

**Fragony** · 10-22-2012, 12:15

Originally Posted by Conradus

I don't know where you got that definition. Wiki: A parliamentary system is a system of democratic government in which the ministers of the Executive Branch derive their legitimacy from and are accountable to a Legislature or parliament; the Executive and Legislative branches are interconnected.

Whether or not your ministers were members of Parliament doesn't change anything about their accountability to Parliament, or the legitimacy of their government.

We kinda have a problem there don't we. We Dutch can't stop the EUSSR but we will forever hate you.