Starve The Beast Is the Most Ill Concived Peice of Political Theory

[Papewaio]

So you can either pay your own way as a society with taxes.

Or

Issue government bonds to China and be in debt to a foreign power that many have doubts about its growing power.

So personal responsibility vs foreign government influence.

I know which one I prefer.

[Tuuvi]

I'm all for smaller, limited government, but I hate how conservatives want to cut taxes and government programs without any plan or goal, as if government is some sort of enemy that needs to be defeated.

Here's an idea: Why don't we decide which programs and services we really want and need, figure out how much it will cost, and then set taxes accordingly?

[Tellos Athenaios]

I'm all for smaller, limited government, but I hate how conservatives want to cut taxes and government programs without any plan or goal, as if government is some sort of enemy that needs to be defeated.

Here's an idea: Why don't we decide which programs and services we really want and need, figure out how much it will cost, and then set taxes accordingly?

It's a brilliant idea. Which programs and services, did you have in mind?

[Tuuvi]

It's a brilliant idea. Which programs and services, did you have in mind?

I haven't given it that much thought, what I was trying to get at is that I think the tax rate should be based on the government's need, rather on all the hullabaloo about lowering taxes because taxes = oppression or tax the rich because they need to pay their fair share, etc. I also think that with the budget and government being as bloated and complicated as it is, in order to balance the budget it might be best to just start from scratch and rebuild the whole thing from the ground up.

[Tellos Athenaios]

So you can either pay your own way as a society with taxes.

The history of the USA is of not liking the sound of that. At all.

I'm only partially kidding: California serves as a good example of what happens when you let the voters decide.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm only partially kidding: California serves as a good example of what happens when you let the voters decide.

My state makes me cry sometimes. I can't wait to see how the voters do in 5 days. I was planning on making a thread about the more ridiculous ones.

[drone]

"Starve the Beast" = "kill all funding to Democrat-supported federal programs"

[Kadagar_AV]

Tax the super-wealthy at rates higher than 50%, give massive subsidies to manufacturing and focus on exporting to Europe (to take advantage of their failing manufacturing base outside of Germany), raise import tariffs on chinese goods over time, naturalize and give amnesty to as many undocumented immigrants as possible so they can start paying taxes and so businesses can stop using them to cheat the system. Make it a national priority to get a higher education and/or trade/vocational education to everyone who wants it. Give it ten or fifteen years of dedicated support from both sides of the aisle (since constant economic policy changes do more harm than anything else). Economy fixed for the foreseeable future.

Oh, and legalize pot. That's a gold-mine waiting to be exploited.

[Fragony]

With the conservatives, starve the beast. The government isn't there for you, you are there for the government.

[Ironside]

Tax the super-wealthy at rates higher than 50%

The big one is classing capital gains as income -> income tax rates on that. Say for example, Mitt Romney would about double his taxes, while he would tax dodge away from those 50%, like he does now. It's also quite hard to paint in "evil pinko commie" light with a bit of traction, since it's forcing them to pay the same as everyone else. Needs to be grasrooted though, too many in the top uses it.

With the conservatives, starve the beast. The government isn't there for you, you are there for the government.

Starving the beast requires that you're willing to cut the stuff you want to remain. That's the fundamental problem with the idea. The last decade pretty much shows that it might start working when the US is in the same situation as Greece (and the sane economical recovery would include rising taxes).

It really stems from the question "why should we pay any taxes at all?" and not "what taxes are fair?"

[Kadagar_AV]

What I have yet to understand, is why people from the US think the police and military should be state funded, but not the well being of the citizens (healthcare, social security a.s.o).

I'm just joking of course... The vast majority of police work is done by private companies over there, and lately also their military. I haven't kept track lately, but would I be all wrong saying private companies stand for a lot of the boots on the ground in Afghanistan or Iraq?



I think the rest of the world should start treating the US less like a nation, and more like a corporation.

A corporation about to go bankrupt.

[Kadagar_AV]

That's pretty exaggerated, actually. Police work is almost entirely tax-payer funded and public--the biggest problem with the police is that their Unions are worse than anything in the auto industry, which makes it almost impossible to get rid of the rotten ones, and Private Military Companies account for an absolutely miniscule amount of the troops on the ground during the global war on terror. When I was in Iraq, I only ever saw them when we visited the green zone.

*However, one area where you are correct is when it comes to the prison system. Many of our largest prisons are privately run and subsidized by the government--the only people making a profit from these operations are the corporations who run the prisons, and the politicians getting kickbacks from their lobbyists. It is a frightening trend.

Mall security
Private investigators
Bounty hunters
Gated communities

Yeah... You have policemen doing police work alright.

And about Mercs, last I checked roughly 50% of the boots on the ground in Iraq were Mercs... Has that changed?