Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all

[Kadagar_AV]

The perpetrators are identified as casuals, and they're almost all ethnic Swedes.

I don't care about your whining, what I do care about is how you twist it from a crime problem to an immigration and cultural problem, coupled with neo-nazi slogans.

Considering that your fellow Swedes showed their true character this weekend, I find the timing of your reference to idyllic Sweden hilarious.

HoreTore, first of all, immigrants viciously attacking ethnic Swedes are far more common than the other way around. Even IF, and that's a big "IF", the hooligans killing that man were Swedes, it doesnt change the statistics.

Secondly, what makes you think the perpetrator was an ethnic Swede? Helsingborg is full of arabs and south-of-Sahara-Africans.

Looking at Helsingborg at large and its modern demographics, I give it 50/50 odds that the perp was immigrant.

Why so eager to jump to conclussions? I guess because it's so rare with Swedish perps in horrible assaults like this, that you take any half-arsed chance you have to support your completely failed political beliefs?

Patethic. At least wait till you know who did it before you start screaming "Swedish Murderer!!" Mmmmmmmmkay?

[Kadagar_AV]

In related news, this is what it looks like when a group of fine, young Swedish gentlemen visits a pub.

I can see why people don't want to ruin this idyllic society.

Rare happenings does not change statistics HT. I never said Sweden doesn't have our share of idiots, I just wonder why we import people we know are professional at it.

Also, I think that link just said it was supporters, nothing about it being ethnic Swedes... Or do you just assume it's Swedes when perp is unknown, even when statistics would lean the other way?

Seems kind of.... stupid...

[HoreTore]

HoreTore, first of all, immigrants viciously attacking ethnic Swedes are far more common than the other way around. Even IF, and that's a big "IF", the hooligans killing that man were Swedes, it doesnt change the statistics.

Secondly, what makes you think the perpetrator was an ethnic Swede? Helsingborg is full of arabs and south-of-Sahara-Africans.

Looking at Helsingborg at large and its modern demographics, I give it 50/50 odds that the perp was immigrant.

Why so eager to jump to conclussions? I guess because it's so rare with Swedish perps in horrible assaults like this, that you take any half-arsed chance you have to support your completely failed political beliefs?

Patethic. At least wait till you know who did it before you start screaming "Swedish Murderer!!" Mmmmmmmmkay?

Rubbish.

Swedish football fans are, like Norwegian, Finnish and Danish fans, predominantly natives. Nothing strange about that: since our leagues sucks monkeyballs, the only ones who would watch it are those people who do so for reasons other than football(ie. tradition and so on). Immigrants rarely have this, and so prefer to watch real football instead of our pathetic leagues. The casuals firms I know in Norway(ISKO and Fineste) are all ethnic Norwegians. I have no reason to believe Sweden is different.

My source for this claim? 27 years of being a die-hard football fan. Which you appear not to be. Have fun flicking through footage of HIF and DIF supporters. Playing "spot the darkie" will be a hell of a lot harder than finding Wally. Here is a good start, from the match this weekend.

That you refer to Swedish football violence as a "rare happenings" just shows how blinded you are by your racism. Swedish football hooliganism is right up their with England in 80's now. This weekend's death was merely the latest and most brutal event. It was the logical climax of years of fighting, someone was bound to get killed eventually.

This is the true face of your idyllic ethnicity. It fails. Hard.

But do continue to cry "but they're all immigrants" if that makes you sleep at night. Pathetic.

EDIT: Oh look, more upstanding Swedish gents upholding honour and virtue in the land. You're going to tell me it's a 50/50 chance they were immigrants as well, eh?

[Kadagar_AV]

Rubbish.

Swedish football fans are, like Norwegian, Finnish and Danish fans, predominantly natives. Nothing strange about that: since our leagues sucks monkeyballs, the only ones who would watch it are those people who do so for reasons other than football(ie. tradition and so on). Immigrants rarely have this, and so prefer to watch real football instead of our pathetic leagues. The casuals I know in Norway(ISKO and Fineste) are all ethnic Norwegians. I have no reason to believe Sweden is different.

My source for this claim? 27 years of being a die-hard football fan. Which you appear not to be. Have fun flicking through footage of HIF and DIF supporters. Playing "spot the darkie" will be a hell of a lot harder than finding Wally.

That you refer to Swedish football violence as a "rare happenings" just shows how blinded you are by your racism. Swedish football hooliganism is right up their with England in 80's now. This weekend's death was merely the latest and most brutal event. It was the logical climax of years of fighting, someone was bound to get killed eventually.

This is the true face of your idyllic ethnicity. It fails. Hard.

But do continue to cry "but they're all immigrants" if that makes you sleep at night. Pathetic.

You fail to understand that Sweden has accepted like what? 10 times as much immigrants as Norway?

In the 90's, you would have been correct that "darkies" were far apart among the supporters, but hardly today. Specially in football, which is an immigrant sport. Hockey fans are still rather ethnic, though.

Also, the more violent fans tend to be darkies... So there is that as well.

I am not saying that it's impossible that it's Swedes who are the perps, I am saying that it's stupid to accuse them of being Swedes untill you know it is so, when statistics would give it more of a 50/50 chance. Eveen you should be very much able to understand this VERY simple fact, if not I shiver when I think that you teach children.

Again, pathetic. Your argumentation doesn't hold for any type of scrutiny what so ever.


EDIT: I dont think Norways immigrants have had the "Zlatan" effect we see in Swedens youths. Basically, every arab, african and their mother are kicking ball these days.

[Rhyfelwyr]

To offer what anecdotal evidence I can, as somebody who has lived in (or around) Glasgow and Belfast, I have experienced my fair share of run-ins (somehow I've not gotten into an actual fight) with people and not once has it been with an immigrant. Of course, these two cities have notorious crime problems that predate the modern waves of immigration, and they also have relatively low immigrant numbers for UK cities. But you still get problems there as I have seen.

Latest incident was about a month back coming back from work on the train (was working backshift), and some kid, maybe 15 or so, who is covered in blood started doing some sort of techno dance in front of the carriage window as if left from my platform, then came up to me asked me if I had ever been stabbed. I said "are you alright" or something to that effect, and he was quite placid, turns out he had taken LSD and had tried to cut his finger off. Stabbings happen all the time here so I was expecting things to happen there and then, I felt sorry for him because he seemed like a nice kid after I talked to him a bit walking down the steps.

But as Sigurd will tell you, that is Glasgow for you.

Yeah, bringing back shaming, hushed whispers and social exclusion whenever someone doesn't conform to the norm is a brilliant idea.

I don't think that would happen, but even if it did, it is preferable to complete social breakdown, political alienation, cultural collapse, economic hopelessness, moral degeneration, and all the other fruits of this world that are experienced by those at the bottom.

[Kadagar_AV]

HT, you like maths, so let's be logical about it.

I bring up one anecdote supporting me, and I point to statistics supporting me.

You bring up one anecdote that mmmmmaybe supports you, and refuse to bother with overall statistics.

And then you claim that you are right? This is stupid on a scary level. Stop teaching math at once, you are being as logical as TotalRelism here.

[HoreTore]

You fail to understand that Sweden has accepted like what? 10 times as much immigrants as Norway?

In the 90's, you would have been correct that "darkies" were far apart among the supporters, but hardly today. Specially in football, which is an immigrant sport. Hockey fans are still rather ethnic, though.

Also, the more violent fans tend to be darkies... So there is that as well.

I am not saying that it's impossible that it's Swedes who are the perps, I am saying that it's stupid to accuse them of being Swedes untill you know it is so, when statistics would give it more of a 50/50 chance. Eveen you should be very much able to understand this VERY simple fact, if not I shiver when I think that you teach children.

Again, pathetic. Your argumentation doesn't hold for any type of scrutiny what so ever.

I would advise you to get a clue before you speak, as you are obviously talking about things you do not understand.

Immigrants do play football in Sweden. They also attracts immigrants as supporters. However, the clubs we are talking about are the likes of Syrianska, Assyriska, and so on. You know, the clubs founded by immigrants. Funnily enough, they all play in Superettan and are not known for hooliganism.

The teams with crap supporters, like the Stockholm clubs, Göteborg and so on, have supporters who are predominantly ethnic Swedes. The percentage of ethnic Swedes in the Ultras factions are especially high.



That you distinguish between hockey and football fans is just so clueless I'm wondering whether I should laugh or cry. Get a clue before you talk, son.

[HoreTore]

I don't think that would happen

Its alive and well in all small places.

[Kadagar_AV]

I would advise you to get a clue before you speak, as you are obviously talking about things you do not understand.

Immigrants do play football in Sweden. They also attracts immigrants as supporters. However, the clubs we are talking about are the likes of Syrianska, Assyriska, and so on. You know, the clubs founded by immigrants. Funnily enough, they all play in Superettan and are not known for hooliganism.

The teams with crap supporters, like the Stockholm clubs, Göteborg and so on, have supporters who are predominantly ethnic Swedes. The percentage of ethnic Swedes in the Ultras factions are especially high.



That you distinguish between hockey and football fans is just so clueless I'm wondering whether I should laugh or cry. Get a clue before you talk, son.

You still dodge overall statistics.

Anyway, go to Helsingborg and spend some time with the supporters. Lots and loads of Yugoslavians, arabs and whatnot. Norway havent had the Zlatan effect of Sweden, as I edited in before, every damn immigrant and their mother are playing ball these days.

I distinguish between hockey and football fans because... it's two distinct groups. Way, way, WAY more immigrants who bother with football.

Maybe not in Norway, but definitely so here in Sweden. Again, we don't share the same multicultural problems, as Norway has been way more moderate in their intake of immigrants.

GAH, like talking to a brick wall

[HoreTore]

I distinguish between hockey and football fans because... it's two distinct groups. Way, way, WAY more immigrants who bother with football.

This proves just how hopelessly ignorant you are of how supporter shenanigans work.

Get a clue. I would advise you not to comment on issues you have no knowledge of.

[Kadagar_AV]

This proves just how hopelessly ignorant you are of how supporter shenanigans work.

Get a clue. I would advise you not to comment on issues you have no knowledge of.

I have been to surely hundreds of both football and hockey games in my life, here in Sweden. I have seen how the demographic around football has changed, while hockey has remained about the same.

You seriously think your take on it from a Norwegian perspective trumps my hands on experience?

Immigrants don't care about hockey, they care about football. Thus, yes, the fanbase between hockey and football is very much different. Just because you support AIK in football, doesnt mean you have to support AIK in hockey.

[HoreTore]

I have been to surely hundreds of both football and hockey games in my life, here in Sweden. I have seen how the demographic around football has changed, while hockey has remained about the same.

You seriously think your take on it from a Norwegian perspective trumps my hands on experience?

Immigrants don't care about hockey, they care about football. Thus, yes, the fanbase between hockey and football is very much different. Just because you support AIK in football, doesnt mean you have to support AIK in hockey.

Swing and a miss.

Again, get a clue.

[Kadagar_AV]

Swing and a miss.

Again, get a clue.

What!? Have you started with drugs or something?

You are usually at least comprehensive, but in this thread your arguments are coco as cocopuffs.

Immigrants_do_not_care_about_hockey, they_care_about_football. What is it about that you don't understand?

[HoreTore]

What!? Have you started with drugs or something?

You are usually at least comprehensive, but in this thread your arguments are coco as cocopuffs.

Immigrants_do_not_care_about_hockey, they_care_about_football. What is it about that you don't understand?

....Which actually proves that the guys stirring up trouble at football stadiums are ethnic Swedes.

If you can't make the connection now, you are too ignorant on this subject to discuss it.

[Kadagar_AV]

....Which actually proves that the guys stirring up trouble at football stadiums are ethnic Swedes.

If you can't make the connection now, you are too ignorant on this subject to discuss it.

WHAT!?

We have much more problems around football games than hockey games.
We have much more immigrants watching football than hockey.

And in your viewpoint, that points towards it being the fault of the ethnic Swedes?

[HoreTore]

WHAT!?

We have much more problems around football games than hockey games.
We have much more immigrants watching football than hockey.

And in your viewpoint, that points towards it being the fault of the ethnic Swedes?

....And it is the average supporter who engages in hooliganism....?

Here is a pic of the causal firm in question, by the way. Again, play "spot the darkie".

[Kadagar_AV]

....And it is the average supporter who engages in hooliganism....?

No, it's generally immigrants or Swedes borne and raised in immigrant ghettos, who have been culturally diseased.

Coco as cocopuffs... Your arguments are coco as cocopuffs...

EDIT: Play "spot the Yugoslavian". Or spot "The Swedish kid ruined by immigration".

[HoreTore]

No, it's generally immigrants or Swedes borne and raised in immigrant ghettos, who have been culturally diseased.

Coco as cocopuffs... Your arguments are coco as cocopuffs...

Firman Boys
Young Boys
Fanaticos Landskrona
Urban Boys
Wisemen
Youth Crew
GAIS Yngre
Hammarby KGB

"Spot the darkie".

And for the sake of completion:
Fineste
ISKO

[Kadagar_AV]

Firman Boys
Young Boys
Fanaticos Landskrona
Urban Boys
Wisemen
Youth Crew
GAIS Yngre
Hammarby KGB

"Spot the darkie".

My previous answer stands. Spot the Yugoslavian or Swede ruined by immigrant surroundings.

BTW, the firms actually are rather good at attacking each other in a more controlled fashion.

Random violence is more an immigrant thing.

[HoreTore]

My previous answer stands. Spot the Yugoslavian or Swede ruined by immigrant surroundings.

BTW, the firms actually are rather good at attacking each other in a more controlled fashion.

Random violence is more an immigrant thing.

This is laughable.

The ignorance is staggering.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yeah, bringing back shaming, hushed whispers and social exclusion whenever someone doesn't conform to the norm is a brilliant idea.

No, that would also be taking it too far. We need a balance between shaming and shameless, neither of which is healthy on a societal level.

We need to review those things in the past of our societies that did seem to work, and find a way to keep the valuable bits without keeping the brutalism and insularity.


And PVC, I generally think that you are right. I think that cultural "hybridism" is a lot more attainable than true integration. Integrations is, I believe, a multi-generational process.



Overall, Kadagar is speaking for a lot of people on this issue and not without some reason behind it. How do you address those valid concerns WITHOUT going Neaderthal on the whole issue? Cause yes, nativism sucks, but it is hardly a surprising response given episodes like the one described.

[Myth]

Kad gets assaulted by a gang of Africans and Arabs. Something something football hooligans and Kad has to get a clue and mix it up and love all races and stop being a Nazi.

Yeah, seems all is running as usual in the BR.

Kad, is there any chance to organize a group of fine tough men and exact personal justice? You know how in the USA they say "What would Jesus do?" well... what would Thor do? I know this is bad advice, but I'd do some recon, see how they organize, how much backup they could get, then divide them and surround them in groups of 1 or 2 and beat them into a pulp with a 10 on 1 numerical advantage. Pipes, bats, steel chains and other amenities will be liberally used. To please the liberals.

[Sarmatian]

My previous answer stands. Spot the Yugoslavian or Swede ruined by immigrant surroundings.

How do you actually distinguish a Yugoslavian from a Swede, based on a picture?

[Kadagar_AV]

Kad gets assaulted by a gang of Africans and Arabs. Something something football hooligans and Kad has to get a clue and mix it up and love all races and stop being a Nazi.

Yeah, seems all is running as usual in the BR.

Kad, is there any chance to organize a group of fine tough men and exact personal justice? You know how in the USA they say "What would Jesus do?" well... what would Thor do? I know this is bad advice, but I'd do some recon, see how they organize, how much backup they could get, then divide them and surround them in groups of 1 or 2 and beat them into a pulp with a 10 on 1 numerical advantage. Pipes, bats, steel chains and other amenities will be liberally used. To please the liberals.

I'd love that, and have some friends who would help.

However, I haven't got the faintest idea where to start looking for them. "Entire Stockholm subway and commuter train network" is as you understand a somewhat overwhelming search area, and just because I spot an immigrant gang, it doesnt have to be them.

They strike when there are no witnesses, so even if I was able to identify someone (which I'm not), they wouldnt do anything if others were around.

I guess I'll just do what all Swedes who have been in a similar position does, clench my hand silently and then vote for the most racist party that still have a chance to get in to government.

There is a reason the Swedish Democrats (rather but not fully racist) have gone from nowhere to our third biggest party in just a few years. I think this election they will get 10-15% of the votes.

With some luck, none of the other blocks will get their own majority, making them dependent on SD.

I don't think 10-15% of the population has suddenly turned racist, I think it's situations like this that make people vote that way, or the mom who see her son come home for the third time without his smartphone.

I miss the Sweden I grew up in, where the front door was unlocked and the bike stood outside.

[Kadagar_AV]

How do you actually distinguish a Yugoslavian from a Swede, based on a picture?

My point was, you cant.

Zlatan is one of the worlds best football players (if not the best), his success have made every Yugoslavian kid dream of becoming the next him (as Zlatan is Yugo-immigrant).

Basically, every single Yugoslavian in Sweden is hardcore into football, I think our youth national team has about 50/50 Yugos.

[Husar]

Can I get my points. I have been warning for this for years.

It's a Cassandra thing. If your prognostications are wrong, you get reviled for the inanity of your predictions. If you are later proven correct....you are reviled even more.

Internet justice, ain't it beee-ooo--tiful.

Wait, a single incident proves that Fragony was right all along? Is anecdotal evidence the new internet hipster thing?

Is it really that hard to see that white people and non-immigrants can be violent, too?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...azi-group.html

It just doesn't make the news as much apparently as scary immigrants sell more papers.

[Kadagar_AV]

Wait, a single incident proves that Fragony was right all along? Is anecdotal evidence the new internet hipster thing?

Is it really that hard to see that white people and non-immigrants can be violent, too?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...azi-group.html

It just doesn't make the news as much apparently as scary immigrants sell more papers.

I don't think anyone claims white people cant be violent.

I already stated in this thread that every culture and nation has its fair share of idiots. I just wonder why we have to import people from absolutely scum cultures, thus increasing the amount of idiots.

It's about OVER-REPRESENTATION, that's why I have a problem with immigrants.

They still have an OVER-REPRESENTATION when you remove social-economical factors. See the problem?

Another problem is of course that quite some immigrant groups will never serve another purpose in society than being at the very bottom socio-economicly (It's not like many Somalis will be rocket-engineers anytime soon), so basically we are importing raised crime.

[HoreTore]

More than one in every five young Swedes are unemployed.

But I'm sure that doesn't matter, let's continue discussing culture(race).

....And about "rocket scientists".... While you Swedes are naturally to daft to have a space program, we will have to look at alternate "smart-guy" professions. What does your average med-student look like, Kad?

[Sarmatian]

My point was, you cant.

Zlatan is one of the worlds best football players (if not the best), his success have made every Yugoslavian kid dream of becoming the next him (as Zlatan is Yugo-immigrant).

Your point was, if I understood it correctly, is that the reason football fans are more violent than hockey fans in Sweden, since hockey fans are mostly ethnic Swedes while immigrants are more into football. That doesn't really make sense.

Basically, every single Yugoslavian in Sweden is hardcore into football, I think our youth national team has about 50/50 Yugos.

That's got more to do with the fact that you guys suck at football.

[Kadagar_AV]

More than one in every five young Swedes are unemployed.

But I'm sure that doesn't matter, let's continue discussing culture(race).

I just said, quite some immigrant groups are still over-represented when you account for socio-economical factors.

I also just said, that many immigrant groups will never reach anything but the lowest of socio-economical class because of their culture and background, so in effect we import crime.

Is that hard to get?