What are your cheapest core units to defeat Rome?

[kdrakak]

Personally, I find it difficult to fight Romans as Gauls without axemen or other AP infantry. Reason being, Triarii (especially Camillan era), Pedites Extraordinarii, and Polybian Principes are very difficult to kill if all you have is spearmen and swordsmen. Sure, you have slingers and lancers for an AP punch, but they can't slug it out in melee.

In my experience, barbarian armies in Europe have the combination of speed, stamina and enhanced charge bonus as their greatest combat advantage. They don't hold the line against the Romans or anyone else... most of the time there is no line. They can however run their way to victory through any plan. They can team up on individual units that will rout and eventually get to the ones that don't usually rout, such as the Triarii and Pedites. Furthermore, most barbarian infantry units have a +8 charge bonus, while there are "freaks" with +10 or even +12 at reasonable prices, coming soon to a store near you! Outrun! Outcharge! Barbarize Barbarorum!!!

[Thoras]

In my experience, barbarian armies in Europe have the combination of speed, stamina and enhanced charge bonus as their greatest combat advantage. They don't hold the line against the Romans or anyone else... most of the time there is no line. They can however run their way to victory through any plan. They can team up on individual units that will rout and eventually get to the ones that don't usually rout, such as the Triarii and Pedites. Furthermore, most barbarian infantry units have a +8 charge bonus, while there are "freaks" with +10 or even +12 at reasonable prices, coming soon to a store near you! Outrun! Outcharge! Barbarize Barbarorum!!!

Well I'm currently playing a Sweboz campaign and they CAN definitely hold a line ;),even a against roman heavy infantry:
I usually pin them down with Dugundiz or Speudogordoz and use Clubmen to to kill them.

[kdrakak]

Well I'm currently playing a Sweboz campaign and they CAN definitely hold a line ;),even a against roman heavy infantry:
I usually pin them down with Dugundiz or Speudogordoz and use Clubmen to to kill them.

Speudogordoz are among the best Germanic infantry units, not "cheapest core". The principle is correct of course: gang up on them. However, if you are holding the line the attacker does the choosing. Why waiver that prerogative with a fast, high-stamina, barking band of beer-drunken and bloodthirsty Jerrys?
I would not really expect the Dugundiz to hold a line toe to toe against principes (which are pretty much same-tier units) under normal circumstances. But whatever floats your boat :)

[Thoras]

Speudogordoz are among the best Germanic infantry units, not "cheapest core". The principle is correct of course: gang up on them. However, if you are holding the line the attacker does the choosing. Why waiver that prerogative with a fast, high-stamina, barking band of beer-drunken and bloodthirsty Jerrys?
I would not really expect the Dugundiz to hold a line toe to toe against principes (which are pretty much same-tier units) under normal circumstances. But whatever floats your boat :)

It works if you block the Javelins ,with jugundiz, they can actually hold them with minimal losses,but most of my troops have 3 exp on default and my current main army(new campaign) has only silver chevrons.
Oh and they aren't holding the line for a long time I usually flank immediately,when fighting opponents with low morale I usually charge the enemy ;).

Speudogordoz are among the best Germanic infantry units, not "cheapest core".

Yeah I usually have only dugundiz ;) and the most of killing is done by the Slaganz .
But honestly by the time you get them you usually have enough money. ,my main point was that they can hold the line especially the Dacians and Sweboz.

[QuintusSertorius]

Just looking over the Qarthadastim roster again, and noting more Greek imitations; this time Parasim Libi-Ponnim (Liby-Phoenician Cavalry), who are Lonchophoroi Hippeis.

I wonder if I should just stow my dislike of AI Rome and give a Qart-Hadast game a go, just once...

[Thoras]

I wonder if I should just stow my dislike of AI Rome and give a Qart-Hadast game a go, just once...

Hmm I always though that it was too easy :Lot's of money and really good troops.

[kdrakak]

Hmm I always though that it was too easy :Lot's of money and really good troops.

It is too easy, but it's really fun to play if you role play and take your time.

[zenisar]

In my experience, barbarian armies in Europe have the combination of speed, stamina and enhanced charge bonus as their greatest combat advantage. They don't hold the line against the Romans or anyone else... most of the time there is no line. They can however run their way to victory through any plan. They can team up on individual units that will rout and eventually get to the ones that don't usually rout, such as the Triarii and Pedites. Furthermore, most barbarian infantry units have a +8 charge bonus, while there are "freaks" with +10 or even +12 at reasonable prices, coming soon to a store near you! Outrun! Outcharge! Barbarize Barbarorum!!!

Actually, my Bataroas held the line quite well, assuming I did not spread them too much but rather put their formation in multiple lines, reducing unit formation width but increasing unit depth. Though fighting with them usually requires a tactical trade-off to make: either let them stand and fire javelins (anf give up charge), or close and charge (and give up javelins). For both, there is usually not enough time before lines collide and melee starts.

[QuintusSertorius]

Don't wipe out the Aedui, transplant them somewhere else. If you're savvy with the move_character command and have Force Diplomacy installed, transplant them to Galatia (currently held by Pontos according to your campaign map) or Tylis (which looks rebel) or if you just want them out of the way, Ireland. Killing factions off is a waste, especially when they can become something else in another place.

[moonburn]

put them in the east and turn them into the boii give them segestica and that place with the druids and the cordinau orca

[BroskiDerpman]

Phalanxes are overpowered in EB SP. I'd load up on levy pikes and keep general near for morale. They can hold forever as long as morale is kept up.

[QuintusSertorius]

Regarding Celtic Slingers, I fought a tight battle against Aedui near Massilia last night. First, I was actually losing, until my 2 FMs sandwiched enemy general and killed him. That turned the battle in my favor, initiating a multiple routs. With slingers, I focused their fire solely on a unit of enemy Gaesatae, though the kills were rather dissapointing, reducing their numbers from 120 down to 90 only until they ran out of ammo. Next time I will focus their fire on enemy general instead.

Phalanxes are overpowered in EB SP. I'd load up on levy pikes and keep general near for morale. They can hold forever as long as morale is kept up.

In both instances, I edited the EDU to change all multi-hit point units (except elephants) back to 1. That includes Gaesatae/Tindanotae, elite phalanxes and Hypaspistai.

I don't find phalanxes to be particularly troublesome or overpowered once you do that.

[Ca Putt]

the Problems with Phalanxes are
most soldiers per unit
shield value of 5 in some cases multiplied.

Naked fanatics are though, yes, but even Skutjanz are quite efficient at dealing with them. Slingers are ok but not ideal. with Their laughable armour value the higher attack of the Archer is more usefull than the AP of the Slinger.
Slingers are great VS heavy Cav tho.
@Barbarians Holding a line:
imho both Dugunthiz and Bataroas are reasonably good lineholders, not as great as Haploi but still Long enough to fall in their flanks. Their Advantage clearly lies in the mass Charge but they do hold the ground for quite a while against non-shock troops.
So I'll stick with: the best cheap troops vs Romans are: ALL Slingers, Clubmen/axemen and lancers. in Order to pullit off however it's advisable to bind them with Spear infantry, Dugunthiz can do that but any Phalanx unit(both classic and Macedonian) preforms better.

I'd personally choose Dugunthiz over Bataroas vs romans tho, the Spears to a fair amout of damage to the chainmail clad Romani, while the swords are better suited to fight other "smelly barbarians", their both not armoured enough to not die from the Roman weapons, so you might aswell take some of them with you.

[zenisar]

Don't wipe out the Aedui, transplant them somewhere else. If you're savvy with the move_character command and have Force Diplomacy installed, transplant them to Galatia (currently held by Pontos according to your campaign map) or Tylis (which looks rebel) or if you just want them out of the way, Ireland. Killing factions off is a waste, especially when they can become something else in another place.

Regarding Aedui. well, unfortunately, I have to dissapoint you. The temptation was too strong, I could not resist. The brother of Arverni king set out on a campaign from Helvetis with 6 units of Bataroas, sneaked via Alpine passes unnoticed and besieged Mediolanum. Reiief Aedui army attacked, tough and hard-fought battle followed, resulting in heroic victory. The fate of Aedui, once mighty tribe and rulers of Gaul, was sealed in 2 seasons.

However, the idea of moving a faction to other location instead of wiping it out has some merit. For some time, I already think about occupying central Europe, role-playing Boii, and turn the whole continent of Europe into the "Europa Barbarorum" indeed. I am looking forward using Boii Swordsman as my core unit that are supposed to be professional experienced warriors, serving as mercenaries before. So I considered using Epeiros (for nicely looking cavalry), Aedui or Arverni (same culture). Though I never used the "move" command, and I am concerned whether this might corrupt the game campaign in any way?